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  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    Quote from ZenN »
    After seeing Bontu spoiled I'm very curious about what the rest of the God-Eternal cards look like, particularly if they're a cycle of ETB effects.
    Well, so far God-Eternal Rhonas is a let down.

    But it's still a really cool card design. I'm really, really looking forward to the Kefnet variant when they spoil it.

    In regards to the new Teferi, I'm actually kinda meh. Do you really want to be cutting off your opponents from being able to interact with each other? Me, not really.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on The Gitrog Monster - TurboFroggy (Now with Doomsday!)
    Sadly, I think razzliox left MTGSal due to some differences of opinion between him and the other Mods/Primer Committee members. A real loss to the community.

    @user-1000
    Updated Gitrog lists are lean, mean, and super competitive machines of doom. They are constantly threatening a winning combo line for what feels like nearly every turn. The sheer number of cards a Gitrog player can see outside of tutors is stunning. I highly recommend taking razzliox's list and comparing it to the TappedOut list. There's also a nice cEDH compendium maintained on reddit, located here. This will be a good starting place for you to learn more about the Hypno-Toad in all of its dastardly glory.

    Carry on!
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Ezuri, Claw of Progress - Five Counter Death Punch
    Just wanted to chime in and appreciate the discussion here. Carry on!

    I'm thinking that every deck that can play Fblthp should. Even my Teferi Chain Veil list. Just because. It's not a bad cantrip creature and the random shuffle effect from spot removal isn't terrible. It probably just doesn't do enough in this streamlined list to ever get a deckslot except for the lolz.
    Posted in: Competitive Commander (cEDH)
  • posted a message on Teferi, Temporal Archmage: Chain Veil Combo & Stax Master
    Negative, ghost rider. There was a brief rumor from a member of the cEDH playgroup that he was going to make a Lavinia Prison deck, but I haven't seen it yet. He's played Gitrog instead, which is much scarier in my opinion.

    However, she's definitely back-breaking against this particular deck. It's very hard to draw into 6 lands naturally to cast Teferi, which means that we lose probably 3-4 turns conservatively on average if she hits play quickly. I think there's a build of her out there that would be absolutely brutal, but I haven't seen it yet. There are the obvious ones including Knowledge Pool, but those lists seem to suffer from the lack of a fast end-game. You've locked the game down, cool story; now you need to win and do it quickly so you don't incur ill-will in future games or allow your opponents time to get out of the lock.
    Posted in: Competitive Commander (cEDH)
  • posted a message on Ghave, Guru of Spores
    @ThatFrenchGuy
    Welcome to the cEDH forums! In an effort to help build the knowledge pool for Ghave, do you mind sharing a list for Ghave that utilizes Ad Naus? I agree that keeping it low to the ground and focusing in on 1-2 combo lines is ideal, but it would be great to have someone more qualified than myself offer suggestions on how to improve Ghave.
    Posted in: Competitive Commander (cEDH)
  • posted a message on Arcades, the Strategist: Wall-Ball Combo
    Hey man, glad to see you've gotten over the mana flooding issue. I've not come across it in a while, so I think your experience should just be chalked up to variance.

    Also pleased to see that Shaman of Forgotten Ways has been putting in some work for you. It was impressive for me as well in a game that I played with my wife a few weeks ago.

    I've got to take a brief hiatus to work on some marital issues, but keep chiming in here, comrade!
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [POLL] Planeswalkers as playable generals
    Quote from Sheldon »
    Question for those who voted yes in this poll: did you consider the second order effect that if all PWs were allowed as Commanders, knowing we'd ban some (which I'm pretty sure you figured out), you then wouldn't have the banned ones available as 1 of 99? If you thought of it, how did it factor into your decision?

    For myself, I didn't find the secondary effects to be relevant. Do note that my observation comes with a grain of salt because I'm an avid cEDH player and am admittedly part of a group that you (the RC and CAG) deliberately don't cater to (for good reasons, probably haha).

    The first thing I'd like to mention, being a representative of the cEDH crowd, is that if the RC and CAG are worried about how an unbanning/banning would affect the general Commander environment, it's always useful to ask the cEDH crowd. Anything that we can do to break a specific card is something that we all collectively enjoy AND are really good at. I think the cEDH crowd could be a good benchmark in evaluating the potential ramifications of banning/unbanning decisions y'all make.

    Of the planeswalkers that are currently legal, Teferi, Temporal Archmage is one of the strongest options available to the cEDH meta game, with perhaps Aminatou or Estrid coming in as VERY distant 2nd place options. The reason that this is the case is because he, in tandem with The Chain Veil, is a 1-card semi-infinite combo that takes advantage of the most basic aspect of the game: mana advantage. It is Teferi's -1 ability that puts him so over the top because he allows you to cheat on mana. Any card that allows its caster to generate mana and/or card advantage at low mana costs is inevitably going to be powerful in the game; it's one of the reasons that Mana Crypt, Flash, and Ad Nauseam are so format defining from a cEDH perspective. Each of these cards allow you to cheat on mana in some form or fashion, making them very powerful. Teferi is by far the best Planeswalker-as-a-Commander card and represents a signficant portion of the cEDH world. If we use Teeri as the benchmark for evaluating other planeswalkers, then I don't think that enabling all Planeswalkers as Commanders is a terrible thing, because so few of them allow you to cheat on mana or cards like Teferi does.

    Of the available planeswalkers (excluding the new War set), there are only a few of them that actually allow you to cheat on mana or cards in an egregious fashion.

    • Tezzeret the Seeker - first, by playing this card as your Commander, you're restricted to Blue, which is the historically strongest artifact tutor color in the game. His first ability CAN allow you to cheat on mana, depending on which artifacts are in play. And from a cEDH perspective, this is valuable but not inherently broken and that's because he can only untap 2 artifacts. In order to really break The Chain Veil, Tezzeret would need to find an artifact rock that taps for at least 5 in order to legitimately go infinite with the Veil. That's basically impossible, since no card has been printed that naturally taps for 5 (Everflowing Chalice or Astral Cornucopia are the only ones that can and the mana cost of doing so is PROHIBITIVE).
    • Estrid, the Masked - by enchanting multiple different mana sources, Estrid can definitely cheat on mana AND cards. However, unlike Teferi, her abilities cannot directly win you the game after some sort of mana loop is achieved [i]without any additional pieces[i]. Teferi literally only needs the Veil and enough mana rocks to generate 5 across 4 permanents. Then, once you've got the loop going, you can use a freshly cast Teferi to activate his first ability to put your deck into your hand. Teferi is a self-contained win condition and enabler all at once. Estrid is not, and is therefore not heavily played in a cEDH setting, if at all.
    • Daretti, Scrap Savant - his minus abiity is what makes him so good and that doesn't directly add mana to your mana pool like Teferi does. He fits VERY nicely into a heavy Stax and Mass Land Destruction shell because he can pick up dead artifacts and thus create mana advantage, but he himself does not directly add mana or generate positive card advantage.
    • Aminatou, the Fateshifter - Aminatou also cheats on mana by allowing you to re-instablink (the new keyword of blinking something immediately instead of waiting until end of turn for it to come back) a permanent and ideally get another effect of that card for 0 mana. However, she needs at least 2 other cards in order to truly go infinite because currently there is no other card that is an enabler for her that is also a self-contained win condition. In order to go infinite, you need to be able to get a global second instance of activating a Planeswalker ability. The only ones I know of that can directly do so are [CARD}The Chain Veil[/CARD] and Oath of Teferi. There is a secondary case of Felidar Guardian and Panharmonicon, but either way this setup still requires 3 cards. And 3 cards is a pretty big ask in the cEDH world.
    • Chandra, Torch of Defiance - still doesn't cut it because there is no way that you can have her ability add more mana than it costs to activate The Chain Veil, the main enabler for planeswalkers in a mono-Red deck.
    • Dack Fayden - I think there could be some interesting applications if he were to be a Commander, but I don't think that he'll ever be strong enough to be a Commander and be scary to play against. I would be happy to be proven wrong though, since I like his charisma.
    • Freyalize, Llanowar's Fury - probably the closest analog to Teferi from a cEDH standpoint, she still doesn't directly add mana in as large of quantities as Teferi does. While she is VERY powerful when built correctly, she still needs quite a bit of setup and, most importantly, she needs at least a turn or two OR a setup of specific cards in order to be truly powerful. She is in the colors of Doubling Season, which makes her a very powerful option for an Elfball/Storm-like win condition.
    • Garruk Wildspeaker - I remember when he was first printed and he was successfully used in Rock variants because of his first ability. He can generate quite a bit of mana, depending on your board state and the land selection available. But, again, he isn't a self-contained win condition like Teferi and has trouble generating a comparative amount of mana from his ability.
    • Gideon of the Trials would be hella annoying to play against BECAUSE he would be available as a Commander. This is probably the first card that crosses my mind as an "uh-oh" card, and that's simply because in order to kill the player that has a Gideon emblem you need to kill the Gideon first. But he's VERY weak otherwise.
    • Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage could actually be powerful, because he CAN cheat on mana AND is a self-contained win condition. There are enough creatures in Blue that add mana (whether untapping permanents like Aphetto Alchemist or actually add mana like Grand Architect where you could legitimately go off with The Chain Veil. But that requires a touch more setup for a permanent that's VERY hard to tutor for in mono-Blue.
    • Kiora, Master of the Depths[/CARD] - again, it's possible that she could be REALLY strong because there are a lot of creature and land combinations I can think of that would allow you to go infinite and she is also a self-contained win package as well. This could be an offender in an already powerful color combination.

    Hopefully the criteria is pretty clear as to which Planeswalkers I would evaluate as being cEDH quality material. And because I'm coming from a cEDH mindset, I don't mind the feel-bads of losing to quick combo.

    However, with what I've said, I do think that Kelzam has a great point on financial aspects NOR do I consider whether some of the currently pritned Planeswalkers would be fun-sucking/game-warping permanents. Some of the new Planeswalkers look like they would be hella annoying to constantly see over the course of a Commander game and there are some that would probably make the table groan (Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker as repeatable and constant removal would probably be a sad panda face for the rest of the table, especially if you dedicate more than 25% of your deck to mana sources).

    I think I'd like to particularly stress Kelzam's point. Because Commander has become such a global phenomenon, any decision you make in regards to bannings/unbannings DOES have direct impacts on the secondary MTG card market. I think you're all aware of that power, which I appreciate, and this is ultimately the best argument in influencing your decision to allow Planeswalkers to be Commanders.

    Anyways, those are my thoughts. TL;dr I don't think that there are enough powerful secondary effects that would drastically influence my opinion of the power level of the available planeswalker pool to make any of them egregious/un-fun from a cEDH perspective if they were legal as Commanders.

    But it would definitely be hella awesome to have the new Nicol Bolas be the Commander for my Nicol Bolas themed Commander deck...
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Teferi, Temporal Archmage: Chain Veil Combo & Stax Master
    Spoiler season has begun and already the new set looks promising. I think the card that I'm most excited to try out in this deck is Karn, the Great Creator. Shutting off mana rocks of our opponents is VERY powerful and he can incidentally find Mycosynth Lattice in order to completely lock your opponents out of being able to generate mana. That is some sweet value for 4. I highly recommend giving him a test, but only if your playgroup allows sideboards.
    Posted in: Competitive Commander (cEDH)
  • posted a message on Why I have no friends, a Kozilek Story
    It's definitely a super powerful card for this deck, particularly with the absurd amount of mana this deck can consistently generate. I think the new Karn is actually a great choice for Commander because mana rocks are so prevalent, particularly in the cEDH world. The fact that you can also create a hard board lock with Karn (for a lot of mana, of course) opens up interesting lines for mono-Gray.

    With all the new hate cards for artifacts in Rakdos, I sense that there's some sort of artifact presence coming down the line. Hopefully there will be a few boons on par with Paradox Engine. I love that card.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Flash + Broken shenanigans???
    Necro - Forum Locked by benjameenbear

    @PrismFalcon
    Hi there and welcome back! That's a really cool interaction you were able to do, but I recommend posting comments on active threads. This particular thread hasn't been active for 7+ years. May I point you to the regular Commander forums. I think there's a thread about sweet EDH plays that you could definitely post this in.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Grothama All-Devouring Wurm Tribal
    Moved Thread to Multiplayer Commander forums - benjameenbear

    I think this forum is the better spot for this thread. Carry on, good sir!
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion
    No Helm of the Host? It seems like a nice way to close the door, considering how much digging Neheb enables.

    Also, why no Aggravated Assault or other combat step enablers? They seem to have super powerful synergy with Neheb in play.

    The list I would think about playing:


    The idea of the deck is to continuously cycle through your deck with infinite attack steps via Aggravated Assault and by continuously discarding Kozilek so you always have cards to draw. Once you have a way to draw more cards then you discard via Sword of Fire and Ice/Rogue's Gloves/Mask of Memory/Alhammarret's Archive you can hopefully draw your deck every turn and create enough mana every turn to cast every card in your deck enough turns. Alhammarret's Archive is the fastest way to achieve this.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Kaalia, Destroyer of Hope: Stax & Reanimator
    Game Reports! I played Kaalia twice this weekend, and lost both times, sadly, but the last game was due mostly to lucky topdecks by the Tasigur player.

    4 Man Game: T&T Shuffle Hulk, Gitrog, Tasigur, Kaalia
    The only reason I kept my opening 7 (which I should have mulliganed in hindsight) is because it had an opening turn Chancellor of the Annex AND Cursed Totem. With two lands in my hand, I reasoned that I would eventually draw into a land or a mana source so that I could try and cast Kaalia and start laying on the beatz. It didn't happen. I ran into the classic danger of Kaalia: drawing too many Angels/Demons/Dragons with not enough mana sources to actually get Kaalia into play. After a very uneventful T1 and T2 from the table (thanks, Chancellor) I stalled out on 2 lands for 2 turns, giving the table enough time to play past the Opening Hand trigger of the Chancellor and develop their board states. We lost to T&T Shuffle Hulk after he went through some serious mental hoops to try and get the naturally drawn Kozilek out of his hand. Gotta love [CARD}Survival of the Fittest[/CARD] and Academy Rector off of Protean Hulk as well as THE LUCKIEST Tymna draws I've ever seen. T&T needed to draw at least a creature from a Tymna trigger so that he could pitch it to Survival in order to find his last Hulk piece. What does he find instead? Ponder and Flash. And what does he Ponder into on his second main? A creature. Super lucky, but it was an impressive win.

    4 Man Game: Gitrog, Tasigur, Kaalia, T&T Shuffle Hulk
    This was a really fun game that highlighted bad luck for me as well as a crucial play mistake. I don't remember all of the details, but I had the board locked down after a Wrath effect with a Rest in Peace and [CARD}Magus of the Moon[/CARD] in play. T&T and Gitrog were literally doing nothing, so it was between Tasigur and I with his Tasigur beats getting in there. I drew into a Dragon Mage and definitely went to attack the Tasigur player with Kaalia. The Tasigur player had just cast a Walking Ballista for XX=4 and was threatening to kill my Kaalia and the Magus. I had an active Dragon Tempest in play. With Kaalia's trigger on the stack, he killed Kaalia but allowing me to put the Dragon into play. I wheel into 5 lands, a Scourge of Kher Ridges, and Morbid Curiosity with no 2nd source of black mana. I cast the Scourge and pass the turn, feeling confident that I would be able to pull out the win, especially since T&T and Gitrog were actually doing nothing but playing land-go. This is where my play mistake mattered. I missed the first Dragon Tempest trigger off of Kaalia's trigger putting the Dragon Mage into play, which I could have pointed at the Ballista. With the Scourge ETB, I remembered the first trigger hadn't been accounted for and tried to make it happen so that I could keep my Magus alive. The table fairly ruled that everyone had missed it and so game state was to be maintained. I later learned that Tasigur's freshly wheeled hand was terrible and that he couldn't cast most of it except a Dimir Signet. What does he topdeck? A Phantasmal Image. I cried a little bit. He casts the Image as a copy of my Scourge of Kher Ridges and activates the second ability of the Scourge, clearing my battlefield. He then topdecks into Biomancer's Familiar and is able to grow his Walking Ballista to a huge size. He puts me at 1 life and then proceeds to kill of T&T and Gitrog, since they can literally do nothing with the Stax pieces on my side of the field. Once the T&T player finally dies, Tasigur kills me with the Ballista's ability. In the 4 turns it took for Tasigur to get everyone down to dead, I drew straight lands and/or cards with double black mana costs. It sucked losing to my own Stax pieces, but the Tasigur player got lucky methinks.
    Posted in: Competitive Commander (cEDH)
  • posted a message on Fblthp: Proteus Staff Combo Control


    Fblthp: The True Staff Master
    ,,



    Damn, I love what Wizards has done with introducing what was probably supposed to be a meme card into the card pool. The sad thing is that Fblthp is actually REALLY good with Proteus Staff. I'll explain the interaction after I post the decklist, but you can essentially find any 2 card combo you want. Reddit has already gone wild with formulating piles and card sequences, and I unashamedly repost those ideas here. Do note that I have never liked Lion's Eye Diamond and will not be including it within my list, even though it's part of some powerful lines.

    Anyways, this is my take on Fblthp if I were to build him.



    So what the hell does this deck do?

    Besides winning with a meme creature? It's a control strategy. But to help you understand better, this deck aims to use Protues Staff to maximum effect.

    Because of Fblthp's unique ability to draw you 2 cards if he is put into play from your library, you have the ability to draw 2 cards with Proteus Staff after rearranging your WHOLE library in the order you choose. This is massively powerful. The actual mechanics of the combo are that you target Fblthp with the Staff's ability and put Fblthp on the bottom of your library. Since it's the only creature card in your deck, it will come back into play from your library, drawing you 2 cards. As part of resolving the Staff's ability, you also get to order the cards in your library in whatever way suits you best.

    This means that you can essentially put whatever 2 card combo you want at the top of your library and you will draw it via Fblthp's draw trigger. The ideal 2 card combo to immediately draw, depending on your board state, is Dramatic Scepter. If you have enough mana sources in play, you can immediately create infinite mana. But what's neat is that you can ALSO draw your deck, since the Proteus Staff can repeat the "combo" with Fblthp to draw 2 cards repeatedly, allowing you to find whatever win condition you want. I like having 2 just in case something goes awry or someone Praetor's Grasp you.

    But, what's really cool about this unique combo, is that you can also win immediately upon resolving the Staff's ability. The sequence of cards would be as follows, and requires that 1 player have at least 5 cards in hand:
    1. Gush
    2. Mana Crypt
    3. Mox Amber
    4. Windfall
    5. Mana Vault
    6. Voltaic Key
    7. Mox Opal
    8. Dramatic Reversal
    9. Isochron Scepter

    Any mana floating/available shortcuts the number of cards that you would need to pile on top of your deck. Fblthp's draw trigger will draw the first two cards of the above pile. You would then cast Gush for its alternate cost to draw the Amber and Windfall. Use the Crypt and the Amber to cast Windfall. With a 5 card hand present at the table, you then cast Windfall and draw the remaining cards needed in order to combo off. You cast the Opal for free and tap it for mana to cast Mana Vault. Tap Mana Vault to cast AND activate Voltaic Key, untapping the Vault with 1 floating. Tap the Vault again, for a total of 4 to cast Scepter and activate it with Dramatic Reversal imprinted on it.

    Another pile that you can use regardless of hand size but requires at least 3 lands and an open land drop or 4 lands in play is the following:
    1. Gush
    2. Mana Crypt
    3. Frantic Search
    4. Mox Amber
    5. Brainstorm
    6. Mana Vault
    7. Voltaic Key
    8. Dramatic Reversal
    9. Isochron Scepter

    Fblthp's trigger will draw you Gush and the Crypt. Cast Gush for its alternate cost to draw Frantic Search and Mox Amber (Fblthp will be in play after resolution of Proteus Staff). Use the Crypt and Amber to cast Frantic Search, untapping 3 lands and drawing Brainstorm and Mana Vault, discarding 2 cards. With 2 land untapped, cast Brainstorm to draw into Voltaic Key and Dramatic Scepter. Tap one of the lands to cast Mana Vault. Tap Vault to cast AND activate Voltaic Key, untapping the Vault with 1 floating. Tap the Vault for a total of 4 floating. This is enough mana to cast Isochron Scepter and activate its ability, untapping all artifacts and allowing you to ccombo off.

    Another Pile:
    1. Gush
    2. Mox Amber
    3. Brainstorm
    4. Mana Crypt
    5. Mana Vault
    6. Dramatic Reversal
    7. Isochron Scepter

    Same basic principle to open up the pile. After drawing Gush and Mox Amber, you then cast Gush for its alternate casting cost. Cast Brainstorm with Mox Amber. Draw Mana Vault and Dramatic Scepter, put 2 cards back. Cast Mana Crypt. Tap Crypt to cast Mana Vault, 1 floating. Tap Vault to add 3, for a total of 4. Cast Scepter and activate it with the floating 4 mana and proceed to win.

    The primary win condition in the deck is Blue Sun's Zenith to deck your opponents. The backup win condition is Jace, Wielder of Mysteries simply because he can also draw cards if he's naturally drawn. A tertiary win condition is to draw your deck via Future Sight + Sensei's Divining Top + Helm of Awakening. Or you can make a copy of Scepter with Copy Artifact and put an instant under the newly created Isochron Scepter that can win the game. The best one is to create a giant Army via Lazotep Plating after Capsizing away your opponent's boards.
    Posted in: Competitive Commander (cEDH)
  • posted a message on Aminatou: Esper Superfriends and ETB Value
    Great to see you chiming in! I did consider Reality Acid, and I might still include it, but my issue is that WITHOUT Aminatou it takes a VERY long time to actually get rid of the problem permanent. I prefer that the cards I use be functional without the COmmander being in play, and I think this card is just too slow without Aminatou to blink it. I totally recognize its power and I appreciate the fact that it makes the person sacrifice the permanent instead of directly targeting it, but that slowness really keeps me from wanting to play it.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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