Feel free to check it out. The decklist is my most recent, and I'm still working on the sideboard.
Interesting read. I'm currently trying to compose a decklist I can take to my FNM this week, running chalice mainboard (only 3 since I don't have a 4th atm) and trying out Dig Through Time.
I don't think this list is optimal, as I would like to have a fourth Chalice and I would also like to try out Piracy Charm, but sadly I don;t have any. Two Dig Through Time is also too much I'd argue, but I want to try them out.
Seeing as Utron can drag on games a lot it is often the best choice to try to win as fast as possible if there is a time limit. I usually activate it once properly, if they don't concede I look at their sideboard, then demonstrate the loop, to which people usualy concede since they too understand they will need as much time as possible to win the next game(s). Some people refuse to concede out of spite or hoping to go to time, but once you demonstrate the loop you should be allowed to just leave their lands tapped, skip your own turn entirely and just draw-discard the top of their deck which takes less than a minute.
How competitive is your playgroup? Do you go to FNMs? What do your friends play?
This is kind of important for advice, since there is always the question of style versus power. If you're going for a ramp strategy, there are much more powerful things you can do with 6 mana than the dragons you run; Grave Titan, Wurmcoil Engine and Primeval Titan for example. But if your playgroup is more casual and you like dragons, then you should play dragons
You could try running more acceleration spells. Search for Tomorrow for example can be suspended on turn 1 for some very efficient ramping. Since you are running five colors, I would advice against using Supreme Verdict since it makes your manabase even more difficult; try some simple and efficient spot removal like Lightning Bolt and Doom Blade.
If we are talking about splash color, I wonder why you dismissed black so easily. Path and bolt are both good cards, but thoughtseize is nontheless and most decklists alredy run dismembers, addition of black makes that spell much better.
Also Why do some of you run less than 4 Masters of waves? Is that meta call? Because that guy is insane, even if you drop him on board only with cursecatcher you have 6 power for 4 mana and that is value. He is resilient to 2/3 most played removal spells in the format (Bolt and decay) and his power goes even higher with phantasmal image in the deck.
I'm not a fan of the black splash right now because if I'd splash I'd run fetches and if I'd run fetches I'd run Treasure Cruise, and you can't run Bob with Creasure Cruise. Thoughtseize and "cheaper" Dismembers are definitely good but don't give us anything against our worst matchup (affinity) while Red and White do (Shattering Spree and Stony Silence), plus the added benefit of extra reach in Red and arguably the best removal of modern in PtE. This is all theorycrafting though and overall I still think monoblue is still the best setup.
As for MoW, I generally just can't fit in the fourth one due to mana restrictions. I mostly switch between 3 and 4 MoWs depending on how ballsy I dare to be about my manabase and how many Cursecatchers I feel are encessary
Chalice of the Void is basically a must with the Ascendancy Storm hype and burn being so popular. What interests me more however is the long run for the metagame, which is of course in Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise. These cards together with the new fetches are going to drastically change Modern.
For Merfolk there are two options; either beat them or join them. To beat them, our old plan is actually still pretty good; mainboard relic is just getting better and better, as is Remand. We have plenty of pressure giving them generally one shot at firing off their Delve spell, and after that they don't get to "charge" a second one.
Joining the abuse cruise (hah) is something that should be considered as well; I assume noone needs an explanation how insanely powerful these spells are. With the high consistency in our deck, Treasure Cruise is definitely better for us than Dig Through Time. Fetches would basically be a requirement, in which case I'd definitely go for a splash color. Red or White are the best options (since you can't run cruise with Bob) with me personally favouring Red since it benefits more from explosive draw and bolts, but White is definitely a good option as well.
One thing should be noted however: we can't run both Cruise and Spreading Seas, there simply is no room for it. With a minimum of 24 creatures, 6-8 disruption spells and 2-4 cruise you'd need to either cut vial or seas in which case I'd definitely go with Seas. This makes PtE a lot better since it no longer interferes with mana denial, but it is an important downside nonetheless.
It seems that there are two different versions of the deck developing. One is more control-esque, with more counterspells and often mainboard Dismembers. The other is more silver bullet, dropping the mb dismembers for the Trinket Mage package. For the silver bullet build, I'd argue that four tutors are necessary and the 2 fabricate/1 treasure /1 trinket setup is probably optimal as it is the best way to get the pieces you need while still delivering bodies to block with. For the control build, tutors are less necessary and I'd say Treasure Mage is pretty much always the best tutor. It's a pity Oblivion Stone is so awkward to tutor on 3 mana
With a deck full of UU creatures you can't play six colorless sources. Tecs are much better in the side, where you treat them like uncounterable land destruction (don't side out other lands for them)
As for the more 1-drop debate, I already find myself strugging to run all the cards I want to play before considering more 1-drops. Between 20 lands, 24+ creatures, 4 spreading seas and 4 vials you have 8 slots left for removal and counterspells, and I'd consider 24 creatures the absolute minimum. So what could you possibly cut for more 1-drops without severely weakening your lategame?
I agree on Sultai Ascendancy. I'm a huge fan of the card and when it got spoilered I immediately thought "hoboy I can't wait to play some legacy in standard" but since you only start reaping benefits starting turn 4 it can be rather slow (reprinting Erase with all these awesome 3 mana enchantments was a bad move as well)
Has anyone else experimented with a more control-esque build? Satyr Wayfinder and Commune with the Gods to fill the yard and Sultai Ascendancy's dig power is a great way to search for specific answers. With Despise and Thoughtseize you can play some nasty hand disruption, Murderous Cut gives cheap removal and Necropolis Fiend can quickly take the board over. A late game Empty the Pits for four or five zombies ends the game pretty quickly as well.
Merfolk usually plays Steel Sabotage in my experience, which also gets hit by Chalice on 1 making the Angel a hard lock with Chalice on 1 unless they run Dismember, a relatively recent phenomenon.
2 to 4x Dismember is in every Merfolk's 75 now, because of how popular BGx has become. Steel Sabotage is only used on mtgo because Hurkyl's Recall is insanely expensive there, on paper or cockatrice every deck runs Hurkyl's Recall (although some don't run any artifact hate at all because they basically just gave up on the Affinity MU)
@cbgirardo: I don't know about Ensoul Affinity. I've hardly played against it but to me it seems like a passing gimmick that is much more vulnerable to spot removal so yes, I'd it is a better matchup than classic affinity for us.
Most Infect lists I see are GU, which are generally less all-in but more conservative hitting for 3-4 poison a turn. I'd say those are actually the most dangerous since they leave open spell pierce and mizzium skin instead of going for the #yolo T2/3 kill. Against those you often need more than one piece of disruption to make it stick, which is often too much to ask. Monogreen only has Vines of the Vastwood and that phyrexian mana protection spell I always forget the name of so they are much easier to beat. Generally these are just budget lists if you ask me so it is only logical that they are worse.
All in all I'd say that in general fast aggro decks are unfavorable matchups for us, to varying degrees (burn is probably tied since they just scoop to wurmcoil game 1 and condescend actually matters). That doesn't mean we instantly lose when facing them, and our chances probably go up game 2 and 3 since we dedicate a lot of SB slots specifically for these MUs, but they are in no way favourable
If you think this deck has a 50/50 or even favourable MU against merfolk, affinity and infect you are completely blinded by fanboyism. You seem to go from the idea that you draw Chalice of the Void every single game, but even with the tutor package you have only four cards that are or can become Chalice. Even then, tutors will only allow you to play them turn 4 at the earliest, by which time you are dead versus those decks. And even though you up the disruption against those decks postboard, so do they; all those decks side Spell Pierce and artifact hate and do not give you the time to play around it.
Utron greatly suffers from being a "pet deck" of many players. It is flavourful and has a lot of cool one-ofs you don't get to play in many other decks. Hell, it's my favourite deck as well. But you have to be realistic and accept that this deck has terrible aggro matchups; our only real removal costs 4 life and our only boardwipe requires a Godlike hand to be active turn 4 which is still too slow often. It has a ton of favourable matchups because of its inevitability and robustness against disruption (which is why I'd even dare to say that Utron is better than GRtron right now) but refusing to admit its bad matchups just hurts the way the deck can evolve.
You don't even need Chalice to beat Affinity and Merfolk consistently.
I play 2 Dismember MD, 1 Dismember SB, 2 Oblivion Stone MD, 2 Hurkyl's Recall and 2-3 AEtherspouts postboard. Let me tell you that Affinity and Merfolk simply fold in G2 and G3 when you have so much removal and resolved AEtherspouts is basically "GG" because it is like a blue Hallowed Burial against those decks. And again, if I get Platinum Angel, they usually only have 2-3 MD responses to it which I can still counter. And if I get enough mana, I can just wipe the board with O-Stone. Blue Tron actually has a ton of answers to AFfinity and Merfolk - you just have to be playing the right configuration MD/SB and you have to know how to play against them and the matchup most definitely is 60/40 or better in your favor.
I can't say much other than that this is just, well, not true. You are talking ten cards against decks that have 24+ creatures. And I don't even agree those are good cards against them since OStone and Aetherspouts are turn 4 at their fastest (requires one of the 2-3 Talismans plus the card itself and you can't even cast Aetherspouts off of tron+island). Merfolk will always keep in their Vapor Snags and bring in Hurkyl's Recall for Wurmcoil and Plati, has countermagic of its own and often sideboard Tectonic Edge. Affinity is even faster and has Thoughtseize, Spell Pierce and Ancient Grudge. Countermagic is bad against both decks since Merfolk runs both Vials and Cavern of Souls and Affinity just vomits its hand out so fast you don't get time to counter more than one spell.
And don't just make up statistics, it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.
If you think this deck has a 50/50 or even favourable MU against merfolk, affinity and infect you are completely blinded by fanboyism. You seem to go from the idea that you draw Chalice of the Void every single game, but even with the tutor package you have only four cards that are or can become Chalice. Even then, tutors will only allow you to play them turn 4 at the earliest, by which time you are dead versus those decks. And even though you up the disruption against those decks postboard, so do they; all those decks side Spell Pierce and artifact hate and do not give you the time to play around it.
Utron greatly suffers from being a "pet deck" of many players. It is flavourful and has a lot of cool one-ofs you don't get to play in many other decks. Hell, it's my favourite deck as well. But you have to be realistic and accept that this deck has terrible aggro matchups; our only real removal costs 4 life and our only boardwipe requires a Godlike hand to be active turn 4 which is still too slow often. It has a ton of favourable matchups because of its inevitability and robustness against disruption (which is why I'd even dare to say that Utron is better than GRtron right now) but refusing to admit its bad matchups just hurts the way the deck can evolve.
Interesting read. I'm currently trying to compose a decklist I can take to my FNM this week, running chalice mainboard (only 3 since I don't have a 4th atm) and trying out Dig Through Time.
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
4 Expedition Map
4 Remand
4 Condescend
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
2 Mindslaver
2 Treasure Mage
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Talisman of Dominance
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Academy Ruins
8 Island
3 Repeal
2 Dig Through Time
2 Dismember
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Spellskite
1 Batterskull
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Squelch
2 AEtherspouts
1 Trinket Mage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Negate
I don't think this list is optimal, as I would like to have a fourth Chalice and I would also like to try out Piracy Charm, but sadly I don;t have any. Two Dig Through Time is also too much I'd argue, but I want to try them out.
Does anyone have any suggestions otherwise?
This is kind of important for advice, since there is always the question of style versus power. If you're going for a ramp strategy, there are much more powerful things you can do with 6 mana than the dragons you run; Grave Titan, Wurmcoil Engine and Primeval Titan for example. But if your playgroup is more casual and you like dragons, then you should play dragons
You could try running more acceleration spells. Search for Tomorrow for example can be suspended on turn 1 for some very efficient ramping. Since you are running five colors, I would advice against using Supreme Verdict since it makes your manabase even more difficult; try some simple and efficient spot removal like Lightning Bolt and Doom Blade.
I'm not a fan of the black splash right now because if I'd splash I'd run fetches and if I'd run fetches I'd run Treasure Cruise, and you can't run Bob with Creasure Cruise. Thoughtseize and "cheaper" Dismembers are definitely good but don't give us anything against our worst matchup (affinity) while Red and White do (Shattering Spree and Stony Silence), plus the added benefit of extra reach in Red and arguably the best removal of modern in PtE. This is all theorycrafting though and overall I still think monoblue is still the best setup.
As for MoW, I generally just can't fit in the fourth one due to mana restrictions. I mostly switch between 3 and 4 MoWs depending on how ballsy I dare to be about my manabase and how many Cursecatchers I feel are encessary
For Merfolk there are two options; either beat them or join them. To beat them, our old plan is actually still pretty good; mainboard relic is just getting better and better, as is Remand. We have plenty of pressure giving them generally one shot at firing off their Delve spell, and after that they don't get to "charge" a second one.
Joining the abuse cruise (hah) is something that should be considered as well; I assume noone needs an explanation how insanely powerful these spells are. With the high consistency in our deck, Treasure Cruise is definitely better for us than Dig Through Time. Fetches would basically be a requirement, in which case I'd definitely go for a splash color. Red or White are the best options (since you can't run cruise with Bob) with me personally favouring Red since it benefits more from explosive draw and bolts, but White is definitely a good option as well.
One thing should be noted however: we can't run both Cruise and Spreading Seas, there simply is no room for it. With a minimum of 24 creatures, 6-8 disruption spells and 2-4 cruise you'd need to either cut vial or seas in which case I'd definitely go with Seas. This makes PtE a lot better since it no longer interferes with mana denial, but it is an important downside nonetheless.
As for the more 1-drop debate, I already find myself strugging to run all the cards I want to play before considering more 1-drops. Between 20 lands, 24+ creatures, 4 spreading seas and 4 vials you have 8 slots left for removal and counterspells, and I'd consider 24 creatures the absolute minimum. So what could you possibly cut for more 1-drops without severely weakening your lategame?
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Necropolis Fiend
spells
4 Thoughtseize
3 Despise
2 Ulcerate
2 Murderous Cut
2 Sultai Charm
4 Sultai Ascendancy
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Drown in Sorrow
4 Commune with the Gods
2 Empty the Pits
4 Opulent Palace
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Polluted Delta
2 to 4x Dismember is in every Merfolk's 75 now, because of how popular BGx has become. Steel Sabotage is only used on mtgo because Hurkyl's Recall is insanely expensive there, on paper or cockatrice every deck runs Hurkyl's Recall (although some don't run any artifact hate at all because they basically just gave up on the Affinity MU)
Most Infect lists I see are GU, which are generally less all-in but more conservative hitting for 3-4 poison a turn. I'd say those are actually the most dangerous since they leave open spell pierce and mizzium skin instead of going for the #yolo T2/3 kill. Against those you often need more than one piece of disruption to make it stick, which is often too much to ask. Monogreen only has Vines of the Vastwood and that phyrexian mana protection spell I always forget the name of so they are much easier to beat. Generally these are just budget lists if you ask me so it is only logical that they are worse.
All in all I'd say that in general fast aggro decks are unfavorable matchups for us, to varying degrees (burn is probably tied since they just scoop to wurmcoil game 1 and condescend actually matters). That doesn't mean we instantly lose when facing them, and our chances probably go up game 2 and 3 since we dedicate a lot of SB slots specifically for these MUs, but they are in no way favourable
I can't say much other than that this is just, well, not true. You are talking ten cards against decks that have 24+ creatures. And I don't even agree those are good cards against them since OStone and Aetherspouts are turn 4 at their fastest (requires one of the 2-3 Talismans plus the card itself and you can't even cast Aetherspouts off of tron+island). Merfolk will always keep in their Vapor Snags and bring in Hurkyl's Recall for Wurmcoil and Plati, has countermagic of its own and often sideboard Tectonic Edge. Affinity is even faster and has Thoughtseize, Spell Pierce and Ancient Grudge. Countermagic is bad against both decks since Merfolk runs both Vials and Cavern of Souls and Affinity just vomits its hand out so fast you don't get time to counter more than one spell.
And don't just make up statistics, it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.
Utron greatly suffers from being a "pet deck" of many players. It is flavourful and has a lot of cool one-ofs you don't get to play in many other decks. Hell, it's my favourite deck as well. But you have to be realistic and accept that this deck has terrible aggro matchups; our only real removal costs 4 life and our only boardwipe requires a Godlike hand to be active turn 4 which is still too slow often. It has a ton of favourable matchups because of its inevitability and robustness against disruption (which is why I'd even dare to say that Utron is better than GRtron right now) but refusing to admit its bad matchups just hurts the way the deck can evolve.