Dang, only 32 mana producing lands? That seems incredibly low. Do you find yourself consistently missing land drops in the early game? You do run the larger rocks that I don't, so maybe that mitigates missing the drops in the mid and late game a bit.
"Rocks"
How have the bigger rocks like Dynamo and Lotus been working for you? I mean, obviously at least pretty decently since you still run them, but I've never tried them in Erebos. Outside of specific decks like Daretti and Paradox Engine combo. I'm a little skeptical about running expensive ramp since when I have 4-5 mana available is when I'm ready to start dropping permanents that affect the game state. All that said, the deck is very mana hungry and having big boosters that don't rely on lands could be very good.
Yea, some games I get stuck for a turn or two without a land drop and it is less than optimal. I up the land count every few games and then end up flooding out and cut it back down That said, I realized I left out a few lands in my list : Blighted Fen, Reliquary Tower, Westvale Abbey; these are in the midst of being replaced with....something else. Not sure what will go in those slots yet but they've been the weakest utility lands for me, historically. 36 lands are probably still on the low side but I'd rather have screw than flood (this week, at least).
I like the larger rocks a lot because they fuel the most impactful cards in my build. I also rely a lot upon things like Extraplanar Lens as well to get over the hump and typically they're the primary tutor targets, everything else being equal.
This is what I run. I'm less focused on getting Erebos out on t2/3, though it does happen often enough to make me smile. I would rather have a few more mana sources in deck and run ways to mitigate a flood than get stuck for a few turns missing land drops. I did run Mind Stone, Jet Medalion, Fellwar Stone but found them all fairly weak overall for what I want to be doing so ended cutting them a while ago.
Maybe coco is the wrong answer to a right question: i feel the deck tends to often run out of gas quickly, it feels the only problem of the deck as it's the only "flaw" that makes it lose games, maybe more cycling lands is the way to go? I'd trade a bit of manageable pain with more gas, at the point that im thinking running also waterlogged grove
Also: in the current meta i miss a solid sideboard card in rest in peace
Ultimately, I think what you're describing is a feature of almost all aggressive decks; the longer the game goes the less chance for us to win. You can mitigate this if your meta demands it, of course.
For running out of gas, I think that adding some amount of Militia Bugler, Ranger-Captain of Eos, and new Canopies might be something I personally would do. Chaining those two creatures via more copies or Phantasmal Image is a good way to increase your board while not losing a card (in most situations, at least). If you're leaning on fewer tribal lands you could even throw in some spicy 1 drop targets like Giver of Runes or Burrenton Forge-Tender (I'm sure there's others as well) for the Ranger-Captain of Eos. in my extremely limited testing with him, I've found that grabbing a Noble or Champion is fine, however.
For gy hate I'd be leaning on something like Grafdigger's Cage or Tormod's Crypt or Ravenous Trap or 3+ Leyline of the Void (if you don't value your sideboard slots all that much). I like that all of these options come down before Rest In Peace would and can effectively do the same thing. Our two drop slot is so critical that I just don't want to spend my second turn playing RIP.
I feel like it works well enough in Spirits because at least there you have the potential to find a Drogskol Captain or Spell Queller etc which could interact with the stack. Humans doesn't really have that ability (outside of Venser), so the cost/benefit simply isn't there for me.
I guess I would restate my question: what problems are you running into that Collected Company solves? I can't really think of any time in recent memory where this type of build would have mattered while at the same time not really tilting a bunch of good to great matchups away from favorable.
Toxic Deluge is far superior to Dead of Winter, yes, but why not run both? If you only have one spot obviously it goes to Toxic Deluge, but Dead of Winter could be an excellent supplemental removal spell and is well worth testing in my opinion. Three mana is just such a great price for a scaling wrath effect, but maybe mana cost is somewhat irrelevant in a deck that can generate so much mana.
On another note, Glacial Chasm is hilarious. Not only do some decks just automatically lose to it due to not being able to answer it, it interacts wonderfully with Pestilence/Withering Wisps.
Sure, I just try to not overload on sweepers if possible.
I guess "try it out" would be my answer then. I don't see how that sideboard is really much better if you're moving Thalia there and just having RIP. We can run plenty of other gy hate that comes down earlier than RIP without distorting the manabase.
that said, if i were to go to a three color list I think I like this take on it more than bant because it still has access to mantis riders, but I don't think either option is all that much better than the five color ones. ymmv
i wonder if we can build humans in bant colors only: the losses of freebooter and mantis rider are so bad that not even collected company and better sideboard can equal?
btw, we could make a splash for a color, but i personally like the manabase
Dropping the best card in the deck in Mantis Rider for a card that's been generally awful in my experience in Collected Company is not where I would want to be. Additionally, you're going to be taking a ton more damage from that manabase as well. Can't count the number of times where I won games at a life total where having to fetch once would have equated to a loss. Finally, I have always questioned various spirits decks running Collected Company along with Aether Vial, so I'd do that here, too.
Maybe the question to ask here isn't "can this be done?" (of course, it can) - the question is "what does the removal of my best aggressive creature and a decent disruptive creature for a card that maybe gets two random things in my top 6 cards while having to take more damage from my lands solve for me?"
Is Dead of Winter better than Toxic Deluge? For me, no; I run way too many non-swamp lands and Deluge is pretty much guaranteed to kill whatever I need to kill at any point of the game.
Wat does everybody think of Unsettled Mariner as another Thalia. This looks like it's a sweet addition for a similar effect and could maybe let us trim the Legendary Human, which is awkward in multiples, whereas this one is great in multiples.
Copying this with Phantasmal Image is also sweet vs removal heavy decks. It's a shame the copy can't protect itself.
disclaimer: haven't had a chance to proxy any new cards up in cockatrice or paper. all opinions are pure theorycrafting.
I want to love Bazaar Trademage as I have an irrational love for all things Serendib Efreet , but most times I think the effect simply reads "mill 3 cards" for us. As far as this card goes, I'm functionally hellbent (0 or 1 card in hand) most of the time so his megaloot doesn't seem like it will help all that much If it was just a 3/4 flier for 3, would we play it? I don't think so, especially when Restoration Angel offers the same body plus flash plus a blink effect for 1 mana more.
My concern with things like Ranger-Captain of Eos and Unsettled Mariner is that they help us in matchups where we already have somewhat of an edge. lots of times I'm boarding out things like freebooters and thalias and I see both of these new cards as being more creatures in the same vein as they are.
That said, I think they're both worth testing. I'm higher on Unsettled Mariner than the Ranger-Captain right now, mostly because it has CMC 2 and I don't like having too many three drops. If a nice 1 drop gets released over the next few sets then Ranger-Captain becomes more enticing but as it is now tutoring up a hierarch or champion doesn't seem all that thrilling when I could just run Militia Bugler in that slot and get the selection instead.
The sacrifice effect on Ranger-Captain of Eos is very subjective, but my initial hot take is that it at best can counter a terminus, delay some sweeper or Tron bomb for one turn, or force interaction at instant speed from the opponent. While these things are nice to have, it also requires a specific board state such that the opp doesn't get a chance to simply do the thing you delayed when they untap and kill you anyway.
Not sure what your current list is as the choices you're talking about didn't seem to line up with the primer. Regardless, my $0.02:
What's the opinion on Mana Web?
Even with the errata so that it hits all opponents, I think if I wanted this kind of effect I would just up my mana rock count and play Winter Orb, as the webMana Web still allows them to cast something for any amount of mana once per untap. Winter / Static Orbs and the like are far more brutal. Alternatively, you could look to using Infernal Darkness and Hex Parasite "combo" like I do to effectively shut the table off from anything but for the rest of the game. I've also tried Contamination but my build doesn't run enough token generators or similar to keep the effect going more than a turn or three.
Necromancy or Dance of the Dead are going as well.
I ran these initially as well due to our playgroup being wrath after wrath after wrath, but came upon a similar conclusion. Nowadays I run a single Reanimate for targeted, single-purpose reanimation as its too efficient not to. I do run the following spells which can act as reanimation effects but aren't necessarily single target or single purpose, however. Maybe some of these could be considerations for you.
, but luckily there's always good ol' fashioned politicking. It's not that difficult to frame the blue player as the bad guy, even if you're the Prince of ******* Darkness.
Glad I'm not the only one who enjoys the politicking of MBC "this isn't the threat you care about - go pick on someone else while i'm silently plotting all of your deaths".
Oh boy, The Abyss. Obviously, I'm jealous. And yeah, many MBC lists tend towards a particular style of play, even if the card choices to get there are a little different. How has Choice of Damnations been?
Choice of Damnations is something I threw in recently as a fun-of. I haven't actually cast it yet, but it seems fun.
I'm looking to move to more Pestilence effects to my list as well, now that I'm planning on using Wound Reflection and Sower of Discord type effects it seems doubly brutal.
Underworld Dreams is kind of a pet favorite, but the damage per mana investment is impressive when dropped in the early and mid game or when playing against card draw heavy decks. It's also a cheap devotion enabler for when Erebos needs to become a blocker.
Do you find yourself actually wanting to make him a creature? I tend to just have him sitting as an indestructible lifegain blocker and card draw enabler more than in combat. Its so nice with Theors gods to play them and have to never have to cast them again in 9/10 games. Opening him up to an exile creature effect is just something I don't do very often.
That said, I can get behind Underworld Dreams. Still have nightmares about how brutal this was in the old days.
It's been almost a year since I posted in this thread, but I've been steadily making improvements to both the list and the original post. I'm slowly working towards getting it in shape to be a primer but it's taking awhile due to me being busy in other aspects of life and I'm trying to muster the resolve to finish it.
Does anyone have any feedback on the would-be primer thus far? Or does anyone have any deck suggestions? It's pretty rude and tuned already but I'm always looking for new spice.
Primer looks good to me, well thought out and organized.
I've been working on an Erebos deck since Theros went live. Here's my current iteration: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/erebos-god-of-the-dead-25-09-13-1/
I take a bit of a different course than you but the overall game plan is pretty similar - control the board and kill all the things. Maybe some of these cards I'm on could be good suggestions for other folks.
Fair enough, still seems pretty narrow. 9/10 when thing flips that's basically the game anyway. I'm sure there's a non zero amount of times when being able to chump that one time will matter but the same could be done by holding up an aether vial to replay whatever gets bounced and block.
Yea, some games I get stuck for a turn or two without a land drop and it is less than optimal. I up the land count every few games and then end up flooding out and cut it back down
I like the larger rocks a lot because they fuel the most impactful cards in my build. I also rely a lot upon things like Extraplanar Lens as well to get over the hump and typically they're the primary tutor targets, everything else being equal.
Mana-producing Lands:
"Rocks":
Ultimately, I think what you're describing is a feature of almost all aggressive decks; the longer the game goes the less chance for us to win. You can mitigate this if your meta demands it, of course.
I feel like it works well enough in Spirits because at least there you have the potential to find a Drogskol Captain or Spell Queller etc which could interact with the stack. Humans doesn't really have that ability (outside of Venser), so the cost/benefit simply isn't there for me.
I guess I would restate my question: what problems are you running into that Collected Company solves? I can't really think of any time in recent memory where this type of build would have mattered while at the same time not really tilting a bunch of good to great matchups away from favorable.
Sure, I just try to not overload on sweepers if possible.
Glacial Chasm, Infernal Darkness, The Eldest Reborn, Phyrexian Scriptures etc are why I run a Hex Parasite (among other reasons); the ability to reset their counters for essentially no cost is excellent fun. Definitely a nonzero times that infinite Infernal Darkness has caused a table concession.
that said, if i were to go to a three color list I think I like this take on it more than bant because it still has access to mantis riders, but I don't think either option is all that much better than the five color ones. ymmv
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=22231&d=350563&f=MO
Dropping the best card in the deck in Mantis Rider for a card that's been generally awful in my experience in Collected Company is not where I would want to be. Additionally, you're going to be taking a ton more damage from that manabase as well. Can't count the number of times where I won games at a life total where having to fetch once would have equated to a loss. Finally, I have always questioned various spirits decks running Collected Company along with Aether Vial, so I'd do that here, too.
Maybe the question to ask here isn't "can this be done?" (of course, it can) - the question is "what does the removal of my best aggressive creature and a decent disruptive creature for a card that maybe gets two random things in my top 6 cards while having to take more damage from my lands solve for me?"
I've been running snow-covered swamps for years, mainly for Scrying Sheets and Mouth of Ronom. In earlier incarnations where I ran more Pestilence style cards, I used Withering Wisps as well.
Is Dead of Winter better than Toxic Deluge? For me, no; I run way too many non-swamp lands and Deluge is pretty much guaranteed to kill whatever I need to kill at any point of the game.
disclaimer: haven't had a chance to proxy any new cards up in cockatrice or paper. all opinions are pure theorycrafting.
I want to love Bazaar Trademage as I have an irrational love for all things Serendib Efreet , but most times I think the effect simply reads "mill 3 cards" for us. As far as this card goes, I'm functionally hellbent (0 or 1 card in hand) most of the time so his megaloot doesn't seem like it will help all that much If it was just a 3/4 flier for 3, would we play it? I don't think so, especially when Restoration Angel offers the same body plus flash plus a blink effect for 1 mana more.
My concern with things like Ranger-Captain of Eos and Unsettled Mariner is that they help us in matchups where we already have somewhat of an edge. lots of times I'm boarding out things like freebooters and thalias and I see both of these new cards as being more creatures in the same vein as they are.
That said, I think they're both worth testing. I'm higher on Unsettled Mariner than the Ranger-Captain right now, mostly because it has CMC 2 and I don't like having too many three drops. If a nice 1 drop gets released over the next few sets then Ranger-Captain becomes more enticing but as it is now tutoring up a hierarch or champion doesn't seem all that thrilling when I could just run Militia Bugler in that slot and get the selection instead.
The sacrifice effect on Ranger-Captain of Eos is very subjective, but my initial hot take is that it at best can counter a terminus, delay some sweeper or Tron bomb for one turn, or force interaction at instant speed from the opponent. While these things are nice to have, it also requires a specific board state such that the opp doesn't get a chance to simply do the thing you delayed when they untap and kill you anyway.
Even with the errata so that it hits all opponents, I think if I wanted this kind of effect I would just up my mana rock count and play Winter Orb, as the webMana Web still allows them to cast something for any amount of mana once per untap. Winter / Static Orbs and the like are far more brutal. Alternatively, you could look to using Infernal Darkness and Hex Parasite "combo" like I do to effectively shut the table off from anything but
I ran these initially as well due to our playgroup being wrath after wrath after wrath, but came upon a similar conclusion. Nowadays I run a single Reanimate for targeted, single-purpose reanimation as its too efficient not to. I do run the following spells which can act as reanimation effects but aren't necessarily single target or single purpose, however. Maybe some of these could be considerations for you.
Glad I'm not the only one who enjoys the politicking of MBC "this isn't the threat you care about - go pick on someone else while i'm silently plotting all of your deaths".
Choice of Damnations is something I threw in recently as a fun-of. I haven't actually cast it yet, but it seems fun.
I'm looking to move to more Pestilence effects to my list as well, now that I'm planning on using Wound Reflection and Sower of Discord type effects it seems doubly brutal.
Do you find yourself actually wanting to make him a creature? I tend to just have him sitting as an indestructible lifegain blocker and card draw enabler more than in combat. Its so nice with Theors gods to play them and have to never have to cast them again in 9/10 games. Opening him up to an exile creature effect is just something I don't do very often.
That said, I can get behind Underworld Dreams. Still have nightmares about how brutal this was in the old days.
Primer looks good to me, well thought out and organized.
I've been working on an Erebos deck since Theros went live. Here's my current iteration: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/erebos-god-of-the-dead-25-09-13-1/
I take a bit of a different course than you but the overall game plan is pretty similar - control the board and kill all the things. Maybe some of these cards I'm on could be good suggestions for other folks.
anyway, just my 0.02.