I strongly recommend spell burst. It is a soft lock in a lot of cases once Tron is online and is serviceable early on if needed.
From above list what is time stop for? And why ostone in the board instead of the main? It's a pretty versatile removal spell.
In general I don't get tec edge main over field of ruin. We are not a mana denial deck so destroying one mana source seems like who cares, meanwhile field can help us access coloured mana.
Two slavers is the other headscratcher. If something happens to the first one you ruins it anyways to get the lock. You're rarely in a rush to draw it in any case. If you want a second copy treasure mage seems more logical since it'll block early and can get wurmcoil vs burn etc
How do people find platinum angel? I can only think of one time where it sort-of won me the game vs a spirits deck where I had game 1 angel and chalice on one which earned a concession from my opponent - but I probably would have won anyways with chalice on one and any big body.
But in theory I guess its an out to all sorts of nonsense that goes on in modern - the fast decks that eschew removal for consistency like infect, bogles, mill and whatnot. It's not useful vs storm and I think even a deck like ad nauseum will have one bounce spell or a slaughter pact to knock it out while comboing.
The main alternative I would run instead would be myr battlesphere I think (I put sundering titan in the board - found it too mediocre way too often). I suppose its all meta dependent in a way, but which card would you say shores up more bad matches:
Nodes is sideboard playable. Kefnet doesn't do enough for 2u. Too high of a condition to turn into a win condition and the ability is just too expensive. Paying seven to draw a card and bounce your own land is a nope.
Yeah I kind of missed having Esper charm in uw, and thought Esper might actually be friendly for terminus as its way more "draw go" when miracled than verdict.
I really don't like entreat the angels either way. The reliable and flexible secure the wastes works for me as a win condition. It never makes me groan when I draw it on turn two or peel it off a think twice with one mana up.
I was more looking at the discard mode in charm vs bad uw matches like storm or burn. Yeah it can draw too and maybehit a terminus (or awkwardly draw it as the second card). You're right tho that with Jace teferi search think twice and av it's a tough sell to muck with the manabase just for the ability to mind rot eot. Push would be a bit better than oust or condemn imo.
But I mean, this whole thread exists pretty much for Esper charm and push. To the extent you want to play Esper, does terminus package make any sense (over verdict basically)
I've been playing uw miracles a bit and wondering if adding Esper charm and push could work, or put differently play Esper control with an opt and terminus package. You basically trade a field of ruin or two and a few points of life to add black, you replace some of espers think twice or serums for opts.
For example the list two posts up we just go minus four serum plus four opt, three verdict and a spell snare for terminus, maybe find room for a third Jace. It depends entirely on if terminus is good or not, but I've found in miracles it's very good, the problem is when it's not good the deck sputters. Esper charm discard mode might help those times.
Thanks! Im not far enough along with the deck to try mucking around too much with the board. Just good to know which matches are just bad. Wizards felt pretty close to unwinnable but im new to the deck so I could have just played it wrong. There are a ludicrous amount of decisions with uw miracles as the top card of your library is usually in play and you have to call when youre tapping down for a planeswalker without knowing their hand (clique notwithstanding).
I think the killer in that game was when I had six lands to his three, went for baneslayer with dispel backup and he hits me with mana leak and then dispels my dispel. Full tilt. That and getting my field of ruin countered by an obstructionist - but that was largely on me for playing bad. Im way too eager to blow fields eot just to use my mana instead of waiting for a relevant land or forcing a manland activation first.
How bad are the burn and tempo matches (eg wizards) for miracles?
I ran into wizards for the first time yesterday with miracles and it felt awful. He would just plink me down with bolts and snap beats while I try to setup a terminus for one snapcaster that then gets remanded. Trying to fight bolts with cryptics, delvers with paths, and resolve jace and teferi through remand and mana leak seems very hard. On mt eot he could just fire off a bolt; on his I could fire off an opt... but all my win cons are expensive and sorcery speed so what am I digging for? Ten lands?
I assume burn would be similar if they just slow roll into end of turn bolts and charms, hitting you with lava spikes etc if you try cryptic commanding those :s
Yeah I found I was torn between brainstorming to dig for entreat or just fatesealing into ultimate. If fateseal is actually a common path then id try that more often. With esper it is almost always better to just brainstorm because you can then esper charm their hand to lower risk while putting snap beats out.
With miracles the snap value is like opt or telling time which is only good if youre digging for certain things (jace, teferi, entreat... maybe clique)
2 obstructionist maindeck is unusual - im not sure what exactly youre hoping they will do.
Five spot removal main is a bit high too but that can just be a meta call.
I stand by one copy of trinket mage even though it usually gets balista, it can also get map, chalice, explosives, cage, needle. Vs living end grabbing chalice on zero is great, and when you just need a tron piece or academy ruins grabbing map feels good.
How do you usually win the game? I've played a lot of Esper control where the go-to win is an end of turn secure the wastes, an Elspeth sun's champion, or nuking their hand with Esper charm to clear a path for colonnades. But usually secure.
Is it common to Jace or teferi ultimate? Because I only see one entreat, colonnades, snaps and one clique as other ways to win. Without the ability to eat their hand you'd have to fight every bolt push and path to get there with these guys.
So is it mostly jtms ultimate or entreat miracle ?
We've looked at grixis before for using aether grid instead of abrupt decay as a way to beat rip and stony. Some also looked at blood moon since we have opals and talismans.
That being said moving red from a splash to a turn one play is a big deal, and I'm not sure looting is worth the trouble when you could just play a mix of serums and brutalities for very similar outcomes. It's hard to move the deck to ur splash black because foundry needs black, unless you get a full blown three colour manabase where nothing is really a splash, but that's going to cost you life points and vulnerability to things like blood moon and field of ruin.
From above list what is time stop for? And why ostone in the board instead of the main? It's a pretty versatile removal spell.
In general I don't get tec edge main over field of ruin. We are not a mana denial deck so destroying one mana source seems like who cares, meanwhile field can help us access coloured mana.
Two slavers is the other headscratcher. If something happens to the first one you ruins it anyways to get the lock. You're rarely in a rush to draw it in any case. If you want a second copy treasure mage seems more logical since it'll block early and can get wurmcoil vs burn etc
But in theory I guess its an out to all sorts of nonsense that goes on in modern - the fast decks that eschew removal for consistency like infect, bogles, mill and whatnot. It's not useful vs storm and I think even a deck like ad nauseum will have one bounce spell or a slaughter pact to knock it out while comboing.
The main alternative I would run instead would be myr battlesphere I think (I put sundering titan in the board - found it too mediocre way too often). I suppose its all meta dependent in a way, but which card would you say shores up more bad matches:
1) Platinum Angel
2) Myr BAttlesphere
3) Sundering Titan
(I play 2 wurmcoils, 1 balista and 1 gearhulk as my other big bodies)
I really don't like entreat the angels either way. The reliable and flexible secure the wastes works for me as a win condition. It never makes me groan when I draw it on turn two or peel it off a think twice with one mana up.
But I mean, this whole thread exists pretty much for Esper charm and push. To the extent you want to play Esper, does terminus package make any sense (over verdict basically)
For example the list two posts up we just go minus four serum plus four opt, three verdict and a spell snare for terminus, maybe find room for a third Jace. It depends entirely on if terminus is good or not, but I've found in miracles it's very good, the problem is when it's not good the deck sputters. Esper charm discard mode might help those times.
I think the killer in that game was when I had six lands to his three, went for baneslayer with dispel backup and he hits me with mana leak and then dispels my dispel. Full tilt. That and getting my field of ruin countered by an obstructionist - but that was largely on me for playing bad. Im way too eager to blow fields eot just to use my mana instead of waiting for a relevant land or forcing a manland activation first.
I ran into wizards for the first time yesterday with miracles and it felt awful. He would just plink me down with bolts and snap beats while I try to setup a terminus for one snapcaster that then gets remanded. Trying to fight bolts with cryptics, delvers with paths, and resolve jace and teferi through remand and mana leak seems very hard. On mt eot he could just fire off a bolt; on his I could fire off an opt... but all my win cons are expensive and sorcery speed so what am I digging for? Ten lands?
I assume burn would be similar if they just slow roll into end of turn bolts and charms, hitting you with lava spikes etc if you try cryptic commanding those :s
4 cryptic
2 knot
1 negate
1 snare
With miracles the snap value is like opt or telling time which is only good if youre digging for certain things (jace, teferi, entreat... maybe clique)
Five spot removal main is a bit high too but that can just be a meta call.
I stand by one copy of trinket mage even though it usually gets balista, it can also get map, chalice, explosives, cage, needle. Vs living end grabbing chalice on zero is great, and when you just need a tron piece or academy ruins grabbing map feels good.
Is it common to Jace or teferi ultimate? Because I only see one entreat, colonnades, snaps and one clique as other ways to win. Without the ability to eat their hand you'd have to fight every bolt push and path to get there with these guys.
So is it mostly jtms ultimate or entreat miracle ?
That being said moving red from a splash to a turn one play is a big deal, and I'm not sure looting is worth the trouble when you could just play a mix of serums and brutalities for very similar outcomes. It's hard to move the deck to ur splash black because foundry needs black, unless you get a full blown three colour manabase where nothing is really a splash, but that's going to cost you life points and vulnerability to things like blood moon and field of ruin.