@wpgstevo I actually swapped out the genesis hydra for it not getting hit with matter reshaper and put in 3x Reality smasher (I know I know still doesn't get hit with Reshaper, but when it comes on board it ends games). Crumbling Vestige over horizon canopy was originally a budget reason, but also allows for very easy access to C. With that being the only difference in our landbase i never was unable to cast Reshaper when I wanted him. I just love throwing so many threats that usually take 2for1 your opponent (Reshaper, Voice, and Smasher).
Like you stated, i've been running into similar problems with nissa in match ups. I have been looking for other walkers to take one of her spots and I feel now that my curve increased a little maybe I'll add a 1 of Tamiyo Field instead.
I find my version eats control very well. Isn't very vulnerable to midrange decks that i've faced. I'll report when I can get more testing done.
So I've been contemplating Eli Kassis's innovation with respect to jamming nahiri, the harbinger combo in with knightfall. The decklist felt very raw, and I was interested enough in the idea to work on it. I think one of the most compelling reasons to go this direction is that we are threatening to do it earlier than other builds, and it gives the deck a way to overpower graveyard hate with another (mostly) instant-win. In fact, bringing in graveyard hate against the build might not be such a good plan since it can just be a brick if we are on the turn 3 Nahiri plan. Additionally, it gives us something good to do with extra Retreat to Coralhelms.
So I started brewing. As a 4-drop, Nahiri will take the spots of collected company since they have direct anti-synergy. Dropping coco opens up the deckbuilding a bit allowing for more filtering. This is a rough draft trying to take as many lines of attack as possible. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar offers another threat that can protect nahiri or stall until coralhelm combo.
So many ways to win: regular beat down, coralhelm combo, nahiri combo and even ormandal beatdown.
The diversity of threats offered here is impressive.
Anyone else been thinking about Nahiri Knightfall builds? Post your try!
edit: Updated list. The deck feels incredible. SB added.
edit 2: Updated Again. SB still in flux a bit, but otherwise list is solidifying. Nissa is a great way to curve into nahiri when you aren't hitting the knightfall combo since it dodges most removal and offers a chump blocker each turn while threatening her own ultimate. Traverse the Ulvenwald has been performing better than serum visions as we can actually turn it on once we hit turns 4-5 (oath of nissa would be better than either, but I wanted a sorcery for goyf).
So this is the list i started with because Little Nissa is my favorite walker. I went to a more permanant based build and took out the goyfs as I couldn't rely on them much. I went the path of all in multiple paths to combo super synergy everyday is christmass-land build.
I'm still new to brewing this list but what i like about it is Matter Reshaper hits everything (except genesis hydra and Nahiri. Additionally having 8 cards with "2 lives" is really fun and makes it easier to throw out westvale abbey without it feeling as "all in" if you become desperate. I really came to this list after my goyf never really grew past 2/3 when I really needed it to. I find that I am not missing land drops too hard though I am still iffy on Genesis Hydra? Perhaps I just miss my old Genesis Wave deck too much.
P.S. The kid in me just wants to see Crumbling Vestige do good and it seems useful. Early game because the color fixing and colorless fixing and late game to act as a color i might need during KnightFall combo.
The builds I'm toying with all have 2 or 3 copies of Life from the Loam and a copy of Pulse in addition to 3 or 4 Whispers, so I'm usually fine on Sorcery count. It's actually Instants that I'm most worried about if we drop Thought Scour, though I'd rather keep it in.
I agree sorcerers aren't so bad to get. Traverse is also a good one with our deck design. Actually if you play 2x nameless inversion and the 4x architects with 4x thoughtscour most likely you can achieve delirium on turn 2 with 2 open mana to cast whispers or goyf or grim.
The issue I am having is not enough pay off. It feels like snapcaster is too awkward in this build and I'm just trying to figure out how to put the cards I have in my yard to efficient use. Perhaps that is supposed to be goyf and grim but then I'm weak to efficient removal. Also this deck doesn't have much reach which frustrates me as I blew someone down to 1 in a couple turns but ultimately lost because I couldn't throw a lightning bolt :(.
That's why I decided not to take IoK out, since we are somewhat threat-light, I'm going to make sure they have no cards in hand. I also have Gnarlwood in the main, since he's our best shot at not dying to Zoo, and a 3/3 for 1 mana is pretty sweet.
The one issue I have with gnarlwood is it will be the only creature that doesn't pass the bolt test which was a neat thing this deck was doing haha. I will say though all the T2 hymns feel so good into a turn 3 goyf with like 7/8
It is another route you could still use tar fire which is great you just lose some other things... Then you have to think why delirium Jund over normal Jund? Whispers is enough?
The builds I'm toying with all have 2 or 3 copies of Life from the Loam and a copy of Pulse in addition to 3 or 4 Whispers, so I'm usually fine on Sorcery count. It's actually Instants that I'm most worried about if we drop Thought Scour, though I'd rather keep it in.
I agree sorcerers aren't so bad to get. Traverse is also a good one with our deck design. Actually if you play 2x nameless inversion and the 4x architects with 4x thoughtscour most likely you can achieve delirium on turn 2 with 2 open mana to cast whispers or goyf or grim.
The issue I am having is not enough pay off. It feels like snapcaster is too awkward in this build and I'm just trying to figure out how to put the cards I have in my yard to efficient use. Perhaps that is supposed to be goyf and grim but then I'm weak to efficient removal. Also this deck doesn't have much reach which frustrates me as I blew someone down to 1 in a couple turns but ultimately lost because I couldn't throw a lightning bolt :(.
Ok So this deck is really not the deck people think they are facing. This is an elf deck with a wave subtheme. The real all-stars are the cards people don't suspect me to pull out (and that isn't for the surprise factor). They are Llanowar Sentinel and Akroma's Memorial. Whenever I play a wave people are suspecting me to have a Craterhoof Behemoth, but the fact that he doesn't grant haste makes not as good as the memorial IMO. I took out my craterhoof for Polukranos, world Eater for some interaction.
The match ups went as follows
5 Round Swiss
Burn 0-0-2
This loss was because I focused on fetching and he was faster than me. Killing off the right creatures.
RWU goodstuff/geist/kiki resto combo 2-1-0
I got Akroma's Memorial out, he couldn't handle the evasion and pro-Red.
Boggles 2-1-0
First game I blew him out with faster combos (turn 2 Garruk into making blockers until he got trample). I won by top decking a second Garruk (I ulted then made a beast). Game 2 he had 3 rancors by turn 3 and the first strike enchantment.
5 Color Allies 2-1-0
Very hard match up. First game i blew out before he could stabalize mana. Second game he had an aether vial and hardened scales by turn 2 and i was in trouble. Game 3 I only won because of Ulamog in my starting hand. This match up haveing Llanowar Sentinel allowed me to gain just enough blockers to survive until I could get ulamog out.
Fish 2-0-0
I fetched Breeding Pool turn one. I learned my lesson.
Top 4
Fish (same guy) 2-1-0
I didn't use a breeding pool this whole match up and thus was able to stabilize and block with garruk beasts.
Burn (original opponent) 2-1-0
I got lifelinkers out and didn't fetch. I used Genesis wave to bypass his Eidolon of the Great Revel
I won my last modern night at the shop as well. I like playing the elves version because it has more chance for burst (its how I outrace affinity). There isn't much room for many flashy things. Originally I had a list with more "wincons" but threw 4 of them out for the Llanowar Sentinel because they over perform and all I have to do is draw 1. If I can't pay a full 9 mana when I cast the first one I'll usually be able to use heritage druid or Elvish Archdruid somewhere in the middle for the added value. Not to mention my favorite play after a turn 2 garruk is a turn 3 get 4 sentinels out followed by a turn 5 overrun.
I haven't tested the deck yet (I'm still putting it together). It's probably going to be an elves build (I already had a modern elf deck). I was wondering about throwing in Akroma's Memorial. I find it gives 5 key words and protection from red/black. I like that I can give all my new ones haste. I also like the synergy with vigilance and Heritage Druid with mana sinks like Ezuri, Renegade Leader. Any thoughts?
Awesome! Another Elf build!
Akroma's Memorial is a great win-con for Elf builds that are Genesis Wave-Combo builds. I had it in my deck on tapped out for months. At 7-mana, it's a little steep; but it is a GREAT haste enabler. I ended up using Sarkhan Vol and then Xenagos; but there are pros and cons to all of them (and you've got to have a haste enabler As an elf player, I can say that it is the most powerful haste enabler I've found (of course it's also the most expensive; however 7-mana isn't too hard for the elf decks). I found that in most cases I really only used on the turn I won...but in the right build it is extremely powerful.
I can't wait to see your list! I'm posting a little update on my current elf build tonight. I'm excited to see your list as well (especially with your experience playing elf decks). It can get kinda lonely when everyone else is playing finks, Leatherback baloth, Prime Time, Strangleroot Geist, Primal Command, etc...Hopefully we can prove that Heritage Druid, Elvish Archdruid, Visionary, Ezuri, and our other Elves can be just as powerful Thanks for posting. Can't wait to see your list.
Our elves can be as powerful and more explosive with the right hand. Unfortantely with the current meta being all burn all the time we must be very resourceful. We trade bigger toughness creatures for lower mana cost. We trade Value for synergy. I think your build is very solid due to all the cantrips and I my build is quite similar.
Note I'm very new to the G'devotion deck, but I have been playing elves since Onslaught. My first love is Priest of Titania, but enough about me. I chose Akroma's Memorial as a haste enabler that will give my guys pro-red. It also grants evasion and all that other fun stuff (particularly attacking and then tapping for mana sinks). At this time I very much like Thrun, the Last Troll because R/B Delver doesn't have an answer for it.
How has your Khalni Hydra as an early threat/devotion increaser been? I find the 4th Coiling Oracle and 3rd Elvish Archdruid more vital for the explosive starts (Also my early waves usually threw it in the grave). My meta is insanely aggressive and maybe I'm rushing my G'waves to gain early presence.
I find Akroma's Memorial insanely valuable even if I have to hardcast it. I really want to be able to find a build that I can pair it with Primeval Titan and Avenger of Zendikar, but I feel it isn't the time yet (I Want my Akroma Plants!!!!).
My biggest question for you is when do you use the wave to establish early pressence and when do you wait the extra turn to get it a bit larger?
I haven't tested the deck yet (I'm still putting it together). It's probably going to be an elves build (I already had a modern elf deck). I was wondering about throwing in Akroma's Memorial. I find it gives 5 key words and protection from red/black. I like that I can give all my new ones haste. I also like the synergy with vigilance and Heritage Druid with mana sinks like Ezuri, Renegade Leader. Any thoughts?
How does Hardened Scales work with graft? The moving counters part. When you "move" 1 from creature A to creature B does creature B end up with 1 + 1 = 2 counters?
I prefer Viscera Seer it has won me a few games and allows you to gain value out of most killed creatures. It is also a big enough threat to bait removal at times..... Useless removal.
Personally, as a waste not user, I'm highly tempted by the red splash to completely bypass leyline of sanctity and more explosive draws.
Playing Burning Inquiry alongside Delirium Skeins with Waste Not and having bloodmoon in the side board for tron would be useful.
What are your experiences with waste not? I find it more useful to go with liliana's caress build rather than rack and focus on dealing damage through discards rather than hand size which allows us to use reforge the soul. I would love to hear more about your deck =]
Like you stated, i've been running into similar problems with nissa in match ups. I have been looking for other walkers to take one of her spots and I feel now that my curve increased a little maybe I'll add a 1 of Tamiyo Field instead.
I find my version eats control very well. Isn't very vulnerable to midrange decks that i've faced. I'll report when I can get more testing done.
So this is the list i started with because Little Nissa is my favorite walker. I went to a more permanant based build and took out the goyfs as I couldn't rely on them much. I went the path of all in multiple paths to combo super synergy everyday is christmass-land build.
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Boreal Druid
3 Genesis hydra
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Retreat to Coralhelm
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Crumbling vestige
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Westvale Abbey
1 Stony Silence
2 Dispel
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Twisted Image
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Ghost Quarter
I'm still new to brewing this list but what i like about it is Matter Reshaper hits everything (except genesis hydra and Nahiri. Additionally having 8 cards with "2 lives" is really fun and makes it easier to throw out westvale abbey without it feeling as "all in" if you become desperate. I really came to this list after my goyf never really grew past 2/3 when I really needed it to. I find that I am not missing land drops too hard though I am still iffy on Genesis Hydra? Perhaps I just miss my old Genesis Wave deck too much.
P.S. The kid in me just wants to see Crumbling Vestige do good and it seems useful. Early game because the color fixing and colorless fixing and late game to act as a color i might need during KnightFall combo.
The one issue I have with gnarlwood is it will be the only creature that doesn't pass the bolt test which was a neat thing this deck was doing haha. I will say though all the T2 hymns feel so good into a turn 3 goyf with like 7/8
I agree sorcerers aren't so bad to get. Traverse is also a good one with our deck design. Actually if you play 2x nameless inversion and the 4x architects with 4x thoughtscour most likely you can achieve delirium on turn 2 with 2 open mana to cast whispers or goyf or grim.
The issue I am having is not enough pay off. It feels like snapcaster is too awkward in this build and I'm just trying to figure out how to put the cards I have in my yard to efficient use. Perhaps that is supposed to be goyf and grim but then I'm weak to efficient removal. Also this deck doesn't have much reach which frustrates me as I blew someone down to 1 in a couple turns but ultimately lost because I couldn't throw a lightning bolt :(.
Tokens that are copies of other cards reflect that mana cost and thus add devotion. for exampleRite of Replication
9 Forest
2 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Elf Base
4 Heritage Druid
4 Arbor Elf
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Llanowar Sentinel
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Genesis Wave
Other
2 Akroma's Memorial
1 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Batterskull
1 Ulamog, The infinite Gyre
Ok So this deck is really not the deck people think they are facing. This is an elf deck with a wave subtheme. The real all-stars are the cards people don't suspect me to pull out (and that isn't for the surprise factor). They are Llanowar Sentinel and Akroma's Memorial. Whenever I play a wave people are suspecting me to have a Craterhoof Behemoth, but the fact that he doesn't grant haste makes not as good as the memorial IMO. I took out my craterhoof for Polukranos, world Eater for some interaction.
The match ups went as follows
5 Round Swiss
Burn 0-0-2
This loss was because I focused on fetching and he was faster than me. Killing off the right creatures.
RWU goodstuff/geist/kiki resto combo 2-1-0
I got Akroma's Memorial out, he couldn't handle the evasion and pro-Red.
Boggles 2-1-0
First game I blew him out with faster combos (turn 2 Garruk into making blockers until he got trample). I won by top decking a second Garruk (I ulted then made a beast). Game 2 he had 3 rancors by turn 3 and the first strike enchantment.
5 Color Allies 2-1-0
Very hard match up. First game i blew out before he could stabalize mana. Second game he had an aether vial and hardened scales by turn 2 and i was in trouble. Game 3 I only won because of Ulamog in my starting hand. This match up haveing Llanowar Sentinel allowed me to gain just enough blockers to survive until I could get ulamog out.
Fish 2-0-0
I fetched Breeding Pool turn one. I learned my lesson.
Top 4
Fish (same guy) 2-1-0
I didn't use a breeding pool this whole match up and thus was able to stabilize and block with garruk beasts.
Burn (original opponent) 2-1-0
I got lifelinkers out and didn't fetch. I used Genesis wave to bypass his Eidolon of the Great Revel
I won my last modern night at the shop as well. I like playing the elves version because it has more chance for burst (its how I outrace affinity). There isn't much room for many flashy things. Originally I had a list with more "wincons" but threw 4 of them out for the Llanowar Sentinel because they over perform and all I have to do is draw 1. If I can't pay a full 9 mana when I cast the first one I'll usually be able to use heritage druid or Elvish Archdruid somewhere in the middle for the added value. Not to mention my favorite play after a turn 2 garruk is a turn 3 get 4 sentinels out followed by a turn 5 overrun.
Our elves can be as powerful and more explosive with the right hand. Unfortantely with the current meta being all burn all the time we must be very resourceful. We trade bigger toughness creatures for lower mana cost. We trade Value for synergy. I think your build is very solid due to all the cantrips and I my build is quite similar.
4 Arbor Elf
4 Heritage Druid
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Coiling Oracle
3 Elvish Archdruid
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Abundant Growth
Instants/Sorceries
4 Genesis Wave
Artifacts
1 Akroma's Memorial
Planeswalkers
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands
8 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Note I'm very new to the G'devotion deck, but I have been playing elves since Onslaught. My first love is Priest of Titania, but enough about me. I chose Akroma's Memorial as a haste enabler that will give my guys pro-red. It also grants evasion and all that other fun stuff (particularly attacking and then tapping for mana sinks). At this time I very much like Thrun, the Last Troll because R/B Delver doesn't have an answer for it.
How has your Khalni Hydra as an early threat/devotion increaser been? I find the 4th Coiling Oracle and 3rd Elvish Archdruid more vital for the explosive starts (Also my early waves usually threw it in the grave). My meta is insanely aggressive and maybe I'm rushing my G'waves to gain early presence.
I find Akroma's Memorial insanely valuable even if I have to hardcast it. I really want to be able to find a build that I can pair it with Primeval Titan and Avenger of Zendikar, but I feel it isn't the time yet (I Want my Akroma Plants!!!!).
My biggest question for you is when do you use the wave to establish early pressence and when do you wait the extra turn to get it a bit larger?
What are your experiences with waste not? I find it more useful to go with liliana's caress build rather than rack and focus on dealing damage through discards rather than hand size which allows us to use reforge the soul. I would love to hear more about your deck =]