With the Marvel banning I feel U/R/x control looks great. I expect a resurgence in aggro for a few weeks and cards like Radiant Flames will be very good going forward. Dynavolt Tower should also be a lot better as we'll need to shore up our Mardu Vehicles matchups.
Disagree. Both mardu (especially blue) and GB are usually too fast/too resilient against whatever UR throws at them. Hell, UR even has a tough game against Grx energy, and when those are the prime decks of the format (remember, UR was an option to counter marvel), there is no way UR will thrive.
Unless, of course, HOU brings a lot of good stuff for the deck, which I doubt.
How does Doom Blade help against Ulamog or Emrakul?
It doesn't, but those cards simply aren't a problem without Marvel, and wouldn't be a problem if there were reasonable answers to card like Marvel or it wasn't so pushed. Better counter magic, specifically something like mana leak at 2cmc, and reasonable discard, specifically duress, or reasonable answers like pithing needle, keep marvel from being broken. Those are cards that should be staple answers that are safety valves for the format. Ulamog rots in the hand without Marvel, unless you run hardcore ramp which makes for a far more linear deck that can't be ran alongside marvel. Even Emrakul isn't that terrible without being marveled out, you actually have to play out a delirium gameplan, and with any sort of reasonable grave hate, which should always be available, that's not particularly easy.
The only reason that ANY of these cards were overpowered in the format is because wizards intentionally made it so by removing the sort of cards that serve as safety valves. Emrakul, Marvel, and Copter were all pushed to show off their mechanics, with Em also being a story card, and wizards explicitly removed the cards that can answer those mechanics to let them shine. This problem was entirely self inflicted.
so in your opinion Mana Leak or similarly powerful counterspell should be always legal in standard?
Yes. Especially when the creatures are getting increasingly stronger against hard removal.
I've been running Jeskai Control since the new standard season started and while it hasn't preformed as well I as I would prefer; it has been decent to the point that the only deck in my meta that has given me trouble is Mardu. Mostly due to the fact that they can have real fast starts and I need to have my answers line up just right for me to start to pull ahead and stabilize. My biggest issue has been that I've been pulling in more and more draws as most matches have been going to time. There are quit a few people in my meta that are playing; B/G Energy; R/G Gods or R/G Energy; so for me running W has really helped by giving me answers to some of their troubling cards. i.e. Cast Out; stasis snare; fumigate; spell queller (additional threat and exile effect) for example. I also run Radiant Flames; since there are times when I prefer a 2 damage sweeper.
U/R Control is still a good deck; the problem as I see it is that the meta has adjusted to Marvel and has moved to faster decks that can get under Marvel or apply enough pressure on the Marvel decks to where it is Ullamog or bust by turn 4 or 5. They are also packing more SB hate for dealing with Marvel or Ullamog and most of the same hate for Marvel is effective against U/R control due to the lack of threats that it runs. All this puts a lot of pressure on U/R Control to have the right answer each of the first 4 or 5 turns.
Psy
Exactly how I feel. Been running U/R for a while now, and if you don't have the right cards by turn 3 (not even t4 against some decks, you're at 9 or less health by then), you're dead.
Also, most of the individual power level of the cards are too low. We live in a Standard environment where Longtusk Cub, Scrounger, Bristling Hydra, etc. are a thing (hell, rogue refiner is considered a mediocre card). And while they have that, we have to content with draw spells that only work on turn 4, and situational removal/counter.
While the deck itself is good, I feel like it needs a lot more power in order to adapt to the current meta.
What is there to say really that hasn't already been said?
..and it's still a beast of a deck.
I'm 10-2 in official rounds, and 27-11 in games.
Uh, what? Could you post your decklist and some results of your games, going more in-depth, please? Because my results with it have been pretty abysmal (going mostly against rgx energy aggro, br aggro and mardu).
I've noticed that people aren't talking about this deck anymore. Why is that? A lack of showing at big events? Do we just roll over and die to a new meta upstart? Or is the list solved and there's nothing to talk about?
From what I'm seeing, it's been pretty rough for this deck overall. RGx energy and BG constrictor are gaining momentum, and they're awful matchups for this deck. Also, it's simply not strong enough, to the point where even Marvel (the deck it is supposed to beat) is teching succesfully against it.
Could be wrong, though. If so, I'd love some tips on this deck, especially on how to beat RGx aggro in general.
How is everyone feeling about censor I keep siding it out, and I never seem to play it.
Its best value comes from your opponent playing around it even when you don't have it. Absolutely worth it. I just don't side it out as often because I play mostly against BR aggro and they don't care about being censored (plus you often need that super early game interaction).
I played Glorybringer for a while in the maindeck, but I'm having better results with Niblis of Frost.
I'm testing 1 mainboard for a while and I'm finding I don't want to tap for it most of the time. When do you usually cast it? 6 lands with Negate backup?
Against most aggro decks, I either cast it after Sweltering suns, or with magma spray on t5. I dont really care about removal here, since it's probably going to be through damaging spells like fiery temper, and if that's not going face, I'd consider that a plus.
Against mardu and other more midrange-oriented decks, then it's a good idea to cast it besides Negate or Dispel. He doesn't really need to enter early, so playing him t6 and later on is fine. There will be some cases where it could be useful to just tap out early for it (against a resolved PW if your opponent has almost no cards in hand left).
It's not an absolute requirement to play Niblis though, I'm just doing it because I just have 2 fumaroles and 3 gearhulks. But he's a pretty cool tech nonetheless.
I'll have to disagree. UB has access to discard spells, Liliana (returning a gearhulk from graveyard to hand has incredible value) and even things like Glint-sleeve Siphoner, which can be pretty amazing tech on g2.
I've played this matchup a few times, with my UR control, and in my experience, it's very unfavorable. Maybe you're doing something right in that matchup that I don't know about, in which case I'd like to hear it.
I played Glorybringer for a while in the maindeck, but I'm having better results with Niblis of Frost.
While Glorybringer is great against Mardu (especially game 2 or 3 when they get a little more midrange with other PWs), he's not that good against pretty much everything else. Niblis of Frost is very good against hard to remove creatures (Gods and even Ulamog, is you somehow get to that point), it's slightly faster (tapping out t5 for a Glorybringer can be awkward even on the good matchups, and Niblis can pull off his ability and still block) and is less susceptible to removal (while Glorybringer is immune to Push, he can be killed before you even get his ability off).
On the other hand, Glorybringer can really lock out another midrange deck if he stays on board. He's not a bad choice, it just depends on your meta. Since I'm playing against a LOT of aggro decks, Niblis just works better for me.
Flaying Tendrils seems like a good choice against Zombies. Too bad it doesn't kill the lord, but it exiles Relentless Dead, Dread Wanderer and Scroungers.
I've been thinking about adding Fevered Visions to the control build. I miss Thermo-thing! I also think its a fun way to put pressure on our opponent while we sit back and counter everything. I am still not sure how to deal with Ulamog though...
Fevered Visions might work against another control deck, but against other aggro-midrange (which is really 90% of everyone else right now), you'll just give them gas. Not worth it.
Hydra is a lot better than Drake. Drake's evasion is unnecessary since ideally your opponent will have an empty board due to your control spells. And he'll activate your opponent's removal, while Hydra will only get bigger if they try to remove it. I'd suggest going for 2 hydras, but since you don't have gearhulks, maybe 3 is a good idea.
Thief is awesome against aggressive strategies. Sure, if your metagame doesn't see a lot of monoblack aggro or R/B aggro, then maybe you're better off running 2 Confiscation Coup on the SB instead, since it's much better against B/G and Mardu. I still prefer running 3 Thiefs on SB against swarm strategies because AoE removal can only do so much against creatures that can come back from the graveyard (and it usually taps you out), while thief locks one low power creature (or token) while giving you energy to draw or to bolt something. You still need AoE though, but you're better off running both.
Disallow has some very nice options against Walking Ballista and PWs, but Void Shatter works just fine for everything else. It's an ok replacement, but you should priorize getting at least a second Disallow.
I tested with 2 hydras a while back, and it worked out pretty well. The main reason to remove flow is because it has only 2 options in this deck: 1- hit face/walkers (with dynavolt and hydras, you're covered), 2- exile clause (magma spray does it for 1 mana and as instant, not many creatures you want to exile with 3 health anyways).
While on the topic of creatures, I'd advise against playing shielded aether thief on the main. One of the main advantages of a draw-go control deck is that most of your opponent's removal spells are dead cards, that they'll likely side out on g2. By bringing shielded aether thief on g2 and not on g1, you're playing around your opponent's removal.
And Commit/Memory is just really flexible. While not being a real removal spell, it can grant you a lot of tempo. Though I'd rather run another copy of pull from tomorrow and disallow instead of it, those are a bit on the expensive side. And Memory can be good against other control decks with more draw spells or when yours don't show up enough.
Disagree. Both mardu (especially blue) and GB are usually too fast/too resilient against whatever UR throws at them. Hell, UR even has a tough game against Grx energy, and when those are the prime decks of the format (remember, UR was an option to counter marvel), there is no way UR will thrive.
Unless, of course, HOU brings a lot of good stuff for the deck, which I doubt.
Yes. Especially when the creatures are getting increasingly stronger against hard removal.
Exactly how I feel. Been running U/R for a while now, and if you don't have the right cards by turn 3 (not even t4 against some decks, you're at 9 or less health by then), you're dead.
Also, most of the individual power level of the cards are too low. We live in a Standard environment where Longtusk Cub, Scrounger, Bristling Hydra, etc. are a thing (hell, rogue refiner is considered a mediocre card). And while they have that, we have to content with draw spells that only work on turn 4, and situational removal/counter.
While the deck itself is good, I feel like it needs a lot more power in order to adapt to the current meta.
Uh, what? Could you post your decklist and some results of your games, going more in-depth, please? Because my results with it have been pretty abysmal (going mostly against rgx energy aggro, br aggro and mardu).
From what I'm seeing, it's been pretty rough for this deck overall. RGx energy and BG constrictor are gaining momentum, and they're awful matchups for this deck. Also, it's simply not strong enough, to the point where even Marvel (the deck it is supposed to beat) is teching succesfully against it.
Could be wrong, though. If so, I'd love some tips on this deck, especially on how to beat RGx aggro in general.
Also, what are your thoughts on the copy of Confiscation Coup in the main? Is it working?
Its best value comes from your opponent playing around it even when you don't have it. Absolutely worth it. I just don't side it out as often because I play mostly against BR aggro and they don't care about being censored (plus you often need that super early game interaction).
Against most aggro decks, I either cast it after Sweltering suns, or with magma spray on t5. I dont really care about removal here, since it's probably going to be through damaging spells like fiery temper, and if that's not going face, I'd consider that a plus.
Against mardu and other more midrange-oriented decks, then it's a good idea to cast it besides Negate or Dispel. He doesn't really need to enter early, so playing him t6 and later on is fine. There will be some cases where it could be useful to just tap out early for it (against a resolved PW if your opponent has almost no cards in hand left).
It's not an absolute requirement to play Niblis though, I'm just doing it because I just have 2 fumaroles and 3 gearhulks. But he's a pretty cool tech nonetheless.
I'll have to disagree. UB has access to discard spells, Liliana (returning a gearhulk from graveyard to hand has incredible value) and even things like Glint-sleeve Siphoner, which can be pretty amazing tech on g2.
I've played this matchup a few times, with my UR control, and in my experience, it's very unfavorable. Maybe you're doing something right in that matchup that I don't know about, in which case I'd like to hear it.
While Glorybringer is great against Mardu (especially game 2 or 3 when they get a little more midrange with other PWs), he's not that good against pretty much everything else. Niblis of Frost is very good against hard to remove creatures (Gods and even Ulamog, is you somehow get to that point), it's slightly faster (tapping out t5 for a Glorybringer can be awkward even on the good matchups, and Niblis can pull off his ability and still block) and is less susceptible to removal (while Glorybringer is immune to Push, he can be killed before you even get his ability off).
On the other hand, Glorybringer can really lock out another midrange deck if he stays on board. He's not a bad choice, it just depends on your meta. Since I'm playing against a LOT of aggro decks, Niblis just works better for me.
Fevered Visions might work against another control deck, but against other aggro-midrange (which is really 90% of everyone else right now), you'll just give them gas. Not worth it.
Aside from the Lilianas, it's very cheap. And you don't need to pay extra on your mana base.
Thief is awesome against aggressive strategies. Sure, if your metagame doesn't see a lot of monoblack aggro or R/B aggro, then maybe you're better off running 2 Confiscation Coup on the SB instead, since it's much better against B/G and Mardu. I still prefer running 3 Thiefs on SB against swarm strategies because AoE removal can only do so much against creatures that can come back from the graveyard (and it usually taps you out), while thief locks one low power creature (or token) while giving you energy to draw or to bolt something. You still need AoE though, but you're better off running both.
Disallow has some very nice options against Walking Ballista and PWs, but Void Shatter works just fine for everything else. It's an ok replacement, but you should priorize getting at least a second Disallow.
While on the topic of creatures, I'd advise against playing shielded aether thief on the main. One of the main advantages of a draw-go control deck is that most of your opponent's removal spells are dead cards, that they'll likely side out on g2. By bringing shielded aether thief on g2 and not on g1, you're playing around your opponent's removal.
And Commit/Memory is just really flexible. While not being a real removal spell, it can grant you a lot of tempo. Though I'd rather run another copy of pull from tomorrow and disallow instead of it, those are a bit on the expensive side. And Memory can be good against other control decks with more draw spells or when yours don't show up enough.