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  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from Tanarax »
    Quote from oaomcg »
    it blows my mind that everyone is writing off As Foretold...


    Don't get me wrong... being able to cast it on turn three and then immediately drop a Black Lotus or cast an Ancestral Recall seem pretty powerful. But the shell for As Foretold.deck centers around Restore Balance and not Time Warp... so that would make it an upgrade for a different deck and not really an upgrade for ours.

    On a side note: The fluff on this card lines up so well that it's almost as if As Foretold is the first "you make the card" ever produced by a mythical character from a rival gaming system. If you have never heard of Tzeentch then you have already fallen victim to one of his infinitely elaborate schemes... "just as planned" ...He even comes with his own egyptian sub-theme...


    If As Foretold works as a major piece in a time warp deck, I feel that it would have to be used in place of mine effects and the deck would have to completely change around that.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from Xexen »
    Not that it matters now, but for what it's worth, if Jace had been unbanned, I'd have replaced Howling Mine instantly with Jace, possibly also removing a Cryptic. He costs more, but is a significant upgrade IMO
    Yeah at first I thought he wouldn't be that great, then I thought about it a bit more. He would be a 4 mana one sided mine effect (the closest thing we have right now gives us the card first but still gives your opponents cards) that removes a creature when he comes down. I guess we will need to wait until the next announcement to see if he comes off the ban list to start testing him though, 4 mana might just be too slow.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from doc.brown »

    that looks great, i'm also slowly foiling it out...I can't recognise the card in 4x above gigadrowse and the one in 2x next to gigadrowse. what are they

    also I need an opinion on unsubstatiate: the full art promo looks sweet, but it's not foil... so what's best to put in a pimped deck? the full art promo or a the foil regular?


    The 4x looks like the remand promo, the 2x looks like the snapcaster promo.

    If the rest of the deck is foil, definitely the pack foil unsubstantiate. The only exception to using a non-foil in a foiled out deck is the Jace promo imo.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on "Zendikar Expeditions" and Legacy Staples
    There are about 15 unknown expeditions, 10 fetches, 10 shocks, 10 "tango" lands, then 15 that we don't know of. 10 are probably some sort of set (filter, fast lands, pain lands, ect) but the other 5 are up in the air.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on Conceding before damage is dealt. A new trend playing online.
    Quote from illakunsaa »
    Quote from Dunhilina »
    Quote from Grisly_Bear »
    Scooping in response to not give the dominant player more advantage is encouraged in my play group. The most important thing for us is to give the table at large the best fighting chance possible. Another thing is that we don't kill anybody unless you intend on closing out the game in short order (the sitting-out-sucks rule).


    The person beating people in the face isn't usually the dominant player though. That person might be ahead on board presence but scooping to stop effects like that might put a fair game out of their reach, by scooping you just prolonged the game that the player might have ended in short order if they ended up being the dominant player. How do you know the dominant player isn't the guy that just used demonic tutor or just used boundless realms? You can't scoop to make him discard that infinite combo he just searched for, even though him having it at the ready makes him the obviously most dominant threat at the table. Aggressive decks already have a difficult enough time with the increased life points, and it's usually just going to happen for one game, after that most of the table will do more to stifle that players early game because they know what the aggressive players strategy is.


    If a person is performing an all out attack against a player who can't survive this attack then the attacker is a) confident that he can take the beating from 3 players b) misery loves company c) sucks at magic.

    Asking players to concede before attackers are declared just because you want more advantage is more of a douche move than conceding before combat damage.


    So that person who just tutored up 3 cards isn't a threat? I should just leave him alone and let him go infinite to end the game? I guess that sounds right, I never actually wanted to play magic and interact with people, let's let that guy play solitaire until he wins, it sounds so much more fun than playing stuff and interacting with your opponents.

    If you aren't playing a combo-oriented deck (I know multiple players who refuse to use infinites), you can't just sit there durdling around. You have to put pressure on your opponents and force them to use a tutor to live through next turn, not go infinite three turns from now. There are different play styles and you should be prepared for all of them. Yeah, it can suck getting zerged down, but there are so many things you can add to beat that type of play it isn't even funny. To that aggro player, you were the obvious threat for some reason, you should learn why you were the target, and either fix that reason or find ways to live through the hate.

    Finally, I never said to ask a player to concede before I declare attackers (that sounds extremely douchebaggy), I am just saying let the game resolve as normal, don't scoop when another player end up swinging at you, who knows who could have a fog waiting for this moment where then that aggressive player get punished for doing that play.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Time Walk
    Quote from keeningstone »
    This last weekend I took the original Takin Turns deck to a Modern event and did okay. I feel a version that maindecks gigadrowse and exhaustion would do much better, thoughts?

    Also, I tweaked my deck a bit to include Dictate of Kruphix instead of the Jace's, 1 Emrakul, gigadrowse, and Day's Undoing rather than Temporal Mastery. (I need to buy exhaustion). Has anyone found that Day's Undoing is better than the elixir of immortality strategy?


    You got it on the right track. The deck is being rushed with ease by the quicker decks if you got nothing to protect yourself with. I don't havnt seen any results from Day's Undoing, and I havnt bought it either because I has a lot of doubts in the card. Eventually, I think its the same. The only problem is that you might outdraw yourself if Jace Beleren is your wincon, lol.


    @Dunhilina, what list are you even playing?
    But btw, its not too shappy. You met about the 3 hardest matchups, not much to do there. Good job on the other 3 matches thou'!

    Also, good luck furthermore into modern! I tried to move on, but everything comes back to this deck, as its fun like no other decks to play.


    I was playing an older version of time attack (well, somewhere in the middle of the history of the deck, no exhaustion in the list), so trading off the cliques and snapcasters I still have most of the deck for the combo version that I will probably keep but I am starting to trade into legacy. I always found the combo version more fun to play overall even if it was a weaker match up vs fast decks.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on Time Walk
    It has been a while since I have been to this thread.

    I went to a PTQ in August, I had not played the deck for a few months so I was quite rusty with it and definitely didn't have the experience for a few match ups, I ended up going 2 wins, 3 losses.

    I was playing a time attack version from about when the old thread was closed (exhaustion and gigadrowse were out of the main, exhaustion gone all together).

    Game 1 vs affinity. Opponent had a bad hand and mulliganed down to 6, kept too few threats all of them costing too much or were too slow. I was able to keep him off threats enough to out tempo him. 1-0. Game 2, side-boarded in recalls, chalice, drew neither of them, he got a very aggressive hand and it got too big too fast. 1-1. Game 3 comes around, no recalls or chalice but a decently fast hand that I kept. I ended up living with nearly no health and going off with cryptic commanding his lethal combat step (I believe his misplayed with his man lands here), time warping multiple times, bouncing the blocker that he held up for the last warp I had for lethal. 2-1

    Game 2 vs infect. Game 1 I got shackles down early and it just took over the game, taking some of his few threats and bouncing the rest 1-0. Game 2, I sideboard in spellskite + chalice and spell pierce over some of my higher cost cards. I end up losing when he gets a great hand and wins early 1-1. Game 3 I draw multiple spellskites and shackles, I was on the play and it was a massively uphill battle for him that I ended up winning 2-1.

    With some of what I understand as our worse matchups out of the way, I was feeling confident going forward but you know by my ending score, it's all downhill from here.

    Game 3 vs Ad Nausium. I completely forgot this deck existed until he threw down Ad nausium turn 3 in response to my dictate and won the game 0-1. Game 2, I keep him off his fast mana, I sideboard in my spell pierces and side out some late game. I attempt to cast warp, and he plays ad nausium, I should have just sat there and kept up counter mana but got greedy and instant lost because of it. I scooped early the first game, I forgot the ad nausium might have killed him before he got the combo but the second game he had angel's grace to win with 0-2.

    I was definitely on tilt after that, I forgot most of the next matches.

    Game 4 was vs an aggressive Junk deck. He managed to land a large number of early threats, goyf and anefenza, and managed to disrupt my game plan enough to win off those early game drops before I could muster a defense. Game 2 he sided in choke, I didn't draw one of my 7 bounce spells until 3 turns of not casting anything and lost pretty hard 0-2.

    Game 5 vs burn. Game 1 he kills me before I can do anything, I kept a slower hand that would be fine in most cases, not against burn. Game 2 I keep a faster hand but none of my sideboard (chalice + pierces) don't show up and he draws all gas 0-2.

    I feel that I could have definitely done better if I knew the game 3 match-up, but as said by Chalupacabra, the deck just isn't quite there yet, it needs something to push if over the edge. Some sort of un-equal draw engine, an extremely solid counterspell (like counterspell itself), something to give it an edge, to tilt the advantage into itself significantly more than the opponent. I am currently disassembling the deck, I will keep the core around and play the combo deck for fun every once in a while but I feel that until that something comes out, the deck won't be much more than what it is now and I would rather not keep the significant amount of finances that are currently tied into the deck with the deck until that something comes out.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on Conceding before damage is dealt. A new trend playing online.
    Quote from Grisly_Bear »
    Scooping in response to not give the dominant player more advantage is encouraged in my play group. The most important thing for us is to give the table at large the best fighting chance possible. Another thing is that we don't kill anybody unless you intend on closing out the game in short order (the sitting-out-sucks rule).


    The person beating people in the face isn't usually the dominant player though. That person might be ahead on board presence but scooping to stop effects like that might put a fair game out of their reach, by scooping you just prolonged the game that the player might have ended in short order if they ended up being the dominant player. How do you know the dominant player isn't the guy that just used demonic tutor or just used boundless realms? You can't scoop to make him discard that infinite combo he just searched for, even though him having it at the ready makes him the obviously most dominant threat at the table. Aggressive decks already have a difficult enough time with the increased life points, and it's usually just going to happen for one game, after that most of the table will do more to stifle that players early game because they know what the aggressive players strategy is.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most competitive/degenerate Mono-Red commander? -2015 edition
    Quote from Teysa_Karlov »
    Quote from Do_No_Harm »
    You people have obviously never been in a multiplayer match-up against Heartless Hidetsugu.



    What he said. Your commander plus any double damage effect can easily end games as early as Turn 4 or 5. Only thing that holds it back is your lack of search to make it consistent.


    Definitely this, even without a doubler, 2 turns and your opponents are easily in range for burn or beats to kill them.

    Adamaro, First to Desire usually has the highest p/t for a voltron commander, can be a 3 turn kill if there is a greedy player at the table, if not he will almost always be a 4 turn clock with no help. Wheel effects can pump him back up and refill your hand. Throw in the 2 mana or less rituals and you can get him out turn 2 pretty often. As red, you have enough double strike/double damage enablers to start 2 hitting people really early on, and have enough haste to make sure he usually swings when he comes down.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What to do with Gaea's Cradle?
    Quote from Pook and Pie »
    I run one in Ghave, Guru of Spores and one in my wife's Ezuri, Renegade Leader deck.

    If your meta isn't so sweep happy that you can have more than 1 creature out most of the time, then there's really no negative to running it aside from the obvious Wasteland/Ruination/etc (though Strip Mine and Armageddon hit it just as well).

    You can basically slot it into any green deck that runs a moderate number of creatures and enjoy some sort of benefit from it, or you can run it in a token Commander build like Rhys, the Redeemed, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher or Ghave to turn the card into a tremendous ramp non-spell. There's hardly any reason *not* to run it if you have it (I mean, decks that run mostly noncreature spells (I can't think of one at the moment, but I'm rather certain there must be ones like Narset, Enlightened Master in green) shouldn't run Cradle, but those with even just a balanced ratio of creature and noncreature spells would benefit from running a Cradle over something).


    So.... run it. Unless there's a particular reason not to (every deck in the meta runs Ruination/Fulminator Mage/etc instead of the usual Strip Mine/Crucible of Worlds).


    I know in my Hazezon Tamar list I had 15 or so creatures in there and the tokens came out with the creatures. Nothing really came out unless I got one of the handful of utility creatures out there, I had no mana dorks because Hazazon doesn't get any benefit from them like from lands and they are easier to remove. It would have been a temple of the false god that wouldn't really do anything until I was going to win the game.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Why is Divert so popular right now?
    Quote from Shaka »
    Quote from narah »
    I like being able to use it as a pseudo-counterspell by redirecting Counters to target themselves.



    A spell can't target itself, though I believe you can change the target to Divert.


    I believe this is correct, divert is still on the stack when you change the target, change it to divert, divert leaves stack and the counterspell fizzles without a target. It seems a lot more narrow, it doesn't do anything to stop a lot of combo cards like show and tell, is it being used sideboard or main board mostly?
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on Is there a short supply on ALL modern staples?
    Speculation for modern seems far reaching, I just looked at a random card that I liked in modern because I figured if esper ever became popular it would be a staple in most versions of the deck, esper charm, instant speed divination or mind rot for the same CMC as either seems pretty good. Every NM copy is sold out across multiple websites and every foil copy is gone, a card that is currently unused in any format that I know of is over $10 for a foil for the only copy I can see on ebay and over $1 for the non-foil. I feel that speculative draining of the market will kill modern or make it as accessible as legacy, at which point why not just play legacy. The ability for a single person with less money than a goyf costs to completely buy out a market in an online market needs some sort of system in place to balance it out but I have no clue where to start with something like this...
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Time Walk
    Maybe I'm really dumb but I don't really get Day's Undoing??? Then again I started playing in Odyessy so I never knew TimeTwister...

    It'd be good in mill or maybe storm? Where milling and reloading are important...

    How would you guys actually run this thing theoretically? I mean tapping out on Turn 3 has never been wise in Modern...



    Days undoing allows you to essentially refill your hand for 3 mana, equal effects are never truly equal in magic. A simple example is wrath of god, yes it's an equal effect but when your opponent has more creatures, it hurts your opponent and doesn't hurt you. This is a similar situation except with an amazingly powerful effect. I would be highly surprised if it doesn't get banned in legacy and modern. The downside might be enough but every card like this so far has been banned because drawing 7 for 3 mana is insanely broken.

    The example from 9talete9 is perfect. Turn 1 as affinity you drop your hand, Days, it's game over, there is no way in modern that I can think of to come back from that and it's going to be even more potent in legacy, at least there force exists. People splashed blue for burn for treasure cruise, this effect is twice as good at least and this lets burn crush control matchups for the most part, if it resolves it is pretty much GG vs any BGx deck in modern whose normal defense is to empty their oponents hand then slowly build up life or any deck that tries to starve resources. I might be wrong, the drawback may truly be enough but I doubt it.

    On a less insane note, the new flip jace seems decent. As shown from the siege though, looting might not be strong enough (although he starts with a ton of loyalty when he flips and his minus allows him to turn 6 psuedo snapcaster - warp where snapcaster costs the extra mana).
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on Time Walk
    Quote from Amstad »
    Quote from Chalupacabra »
    Right now work is trumping everything else, but talked (or, more accurately, kvetched) with Thenarus about this a bit. I'm not happy with the list as-is for a plethora of reasons. Going to see if I can tune it up into something I like, but I really don't know if I think it can make it.

    The basic problem is this: Modern, despite it's reputation as a Turn Four format is, for Control, a Turn Three format. If we aren't locking the game down or, at the very least, slowing down our opponents at that time, we will lose. I have yet to see any version of this deck that does that. Stringing together an absurd number of turns is nice and all, but we can't be relying on a Turn Five that we may never get.

    The reason that this deck worked in pre-Khans Modern is that Pod kept all the Aggro in check, so the format was dominated by Midrange and build-up decks. This gave Tempo a reasonable foothold for climbing ahead in the format. Without Pod, Linear Aggro and Junk became the norm. In the current meta, decks have to be very, very fast...and this thing just isn't.

    It's not enough to be Jackie Chan anymore...we need to move like Neo now. Is that possible with the Modern cardpool? Maybe? Jeff Hoogland seems to have made it work.


    agree 100% with it

    we need to speed up the deck or find ways to lock out the game and rely less on warps

    i prefer focusing on speeding up, but it's hard to do more in terms of speed, so i found out a way to lock and control the game and be almost immune to aggro decks, stronger to some specific combos but weaker to others(like twin)

    the cards i'm testing are:

    2/2 sunscours and veredicts, giving us 4 board wipes maindeck(2 can be cast for 0 mana)
    4 silences are enough to give us 1 extra turn, if cast on the right time, while disrupting storm and being useful in order to secure at least 1 free warp
    4 leylines of santicity maindeck correct the problem of burn and discards on g1 because in order to make a deck like that, the combo becomes way inconsistent, so discards can be tough on games like that.
    also extra leylines and silences(which are useless in the late game) can be used to cast sunscour, which is a good card at the late game


    what do u think about this new approach?



    I was actually thinking about silence and it sounded pretty good. Tron can't do anything when you play it, Junk can abrupt decay if they have it but pretty much everything else is sorcery speed. I feel like you would have to compare it to Boomerang, both essentially keep the card in their hand, but boomerang has the downside of allowing ETBs and planeswalker's effects going off and silence has the downside of not being able to react to the board (there are more pros and cons of each beyond these obviously).

    The only thing I can think of is if you have the double W cards consistently enough to cast sunscour in a dual colored deck, I know commandeer was in some decks earlier there but that was in mono U.

    About the Scornful Sprites deck, if you want a more reliable late game counter, why not rune snag? 2 mana to stop the counter spell seems so much more significant than one in aggressive match ups, and if you throw out a mutavault to "hard counter" you can easily be strip mining yourself in modern. Late game 4 is going to be a hard counter to all but the smallest spells and if you hit 6 it's pretty much a hard counter.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on Time Walk
    Quote from Chalupacabra »
    Quote from MisterDizzy »
    I feel like the deck needs more interaction. A UB version running thoughtseize or something. Also I think the "extra turns forever" version is probably not the best right now. It forces the deck to commit too many slots to cards that are useless early game(eg elixir).
    Depending on the list, some are very interactive. It really depends on meta and playstyle.

    I do agree though, more interaction tends to be better.


    I have still been working on the UB time attack version and I have just been running into problems. I am up to running 16 creatures and I feel that I always end up running out of threats fairly fast or I run out of answers to more efficient cards. I need a sticky threat that is difficult to deal with (preferably that doesn't lose me life bitterblossom) and I feel that this deck could work, I haven't really had much time with school but I should have plenty of time in the summer for this and I would like to see it work.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
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