I finally decided to cut the pendelhaven from my list and run 2 tec edges and 26 lands instead of 0 edges and 25 land. While I still think it's a good card and haven't had any color issues with it, I've been more and more afraid of gavony township from pod and treetop village from jund and the value from killing them outweighs the added resiliency that the haven gives. I also decided to keep the spell snares instead of tragic slips and run a damnation over the 5th spot removal spell. It's rather easy for us to rebuild and still have a fast clock out of nowhere with scions/swords/BB and 7 man lands that the wrath is still far from being equal and lets us still come out ahead.
I still don't like the idea that tec edge is "great" against tron because I've never once been able to hit a land and keep them off tron without them having one of their 500 tutors ready or see them sitting with 3 tron lands out and being quite happy. But with the large amount of counter magic we have it might be a real thing to do now (outside of the natural turn 3 tron) with SSS being amazing against all of their tutors.
So far my biggest worry is getting out-valued by pod and run over by zoo while the rest of the match ups I'm fairly certain are at least even, and grossly in our favor if we stick a t2 blossom. What are everyone's plans against pod so far? In my experience it comes down to extremely tight play and not getting hit with a turn 2 birthing pod. BB is awesome, but a turn 2 pod is typically lights out if you left your racing shoes at home. However if neither deck gets their nutty opener the first mistake tends to snowball very fast because of the power level of the cards each deck has.
Thanks for the tips stokpile. How does the sideboarding/game plan change for you when u play against big or little zoo? and does your version of fae run swords? if so, which ones?
The the test list I'm running for "big" zoo (which changes almost hourly it seems) is more of a curve out deck with tribal flames, smiter and GoST, while little zoo is plain naya with things like experiment one, BTE and ghor clan rampager. I'm using it because with so much zoo being played initially the prevailing logic in aggro mirrors is to go a little slower and a little bigger so it's worth having in your gauntlet in addition to the "empty my hand on t3 and fold to wrath of god" versions of zoo.
As for boarding against the different versions, mana leak is almost dead against little zoo on the draw as they can regularly play triple one drops and then save up burn. While big zoo has things like GoST and tribal flames which you REALLY want a counter for. Meanwhile discard is very questionable against both versions and I'd much rather just make a straight swap for EE and damnation. And the game plan is basically the same as any control deck against an all in aggro deck or a traditional aggro deck that curves out at 3 or 4, except you don't have wraths main deck. If your opener has 2-3 4 drops in it, mulligan instantly because you'll be dead before they matter. BB buys you a ton of time, but you have to always be thinking of when you're able to start racing. The main difference is that bigger zoo has much more threatening spells than little zoo.
Here's my current list. I'm still enjoying pendelhaven in this version, but I'm still wondering if it's worth a spot or if I should run tec edges for gavony township in pod and the 7 manlands out of jund. If I decide to run tec edge, I'll cut 1 inquisition and 1 pendelhaven and add two tec edges as just running only one seems a bit silly to me for some reason.
As for the sideboard, that's entirely up in the air. All I know for sure is that we'll want some number of damnation, EE, death mark, and a batterskull. One thing that I haven't tested out yet but am very interested in is a full play set of scions in the board for a pseudo surprise super aggro plan. No idea if that's even good, but it's a plan worth exploring I think. Another few cards I'm really interested in, but haven't been able to get much of a grasp on is bile blight, serum visions, and jace beleren.
And if anybody disagrees with anything I've said, please poke me and call me an idiot. I don't think the fae will be a tier 1 deck out of the gates, but has the potential to get there and I really want to make it work.
EDIT: @ Udrew
I'm not saying that spellskite is a bad card or that it has no business in the board, I run two personally. Like you said it's awesome against a few decks out there, even burn. I just want to make sure it's clear what you're pulling in against zoo specifically as that's what you were questioning. It's a 2 mana 0/4 that may or may not have rules text on it in that specific match up. If you have enough cards to take out then by all means. But I'd look to cutting leaks and discard usually before looking at cryptics and mistbinds because they are what tend to win games as needing to race with a mistbind or scion/sword is very common. However if great sable stag becomes popular again then I'd totally bring them in no questions as people used to run Wall of Tanglecord for the same reason. The skite seems like a much better option in the modern format than the days of yore.
I think the addition of Pendelhaven will be a great addition to the deck in general against most of the field, but there are a couple of issues I initially see with running it. 1) We have to treat this like a colorless source, meaning that any faerie build will run 4 Mutavaults for sure, and depending on preference, some number of tec edges. That is already 5/6 colorless sources in a 25/26 land mana base. It normally is not an issue except, that we mostly run 4 cryptic command in the maindeck and successfully casting it by turn 4 might be somewhat difficult. 2) Every turn you have to commit a mana to it in the zoo MU when you could just be using that to counter/kill their guys, and depending if you are on the draw, BB will be too slow anyways and slamming it turn 2 might not be in your best interest. The upside to it is that it is virtually a free scion, as it can increase your clock and protect your guys from stuff like electrolyze, which seems pretty good against us, and it can randomly sunburst an explosives for 3.
BTW does anyone have any tips for the zoo MU? I am having a difficult time with it, and that is becuase I run stuff like deathmark/damnation/EE in the board. How is spellskite in that MU? and is it correct to side out some number of cryptics?
I agree with all your points on the pendelhaven, but have a few thing to point out. It is a colorless source and like you said makes things awkward with a set of mutavaults. But in my list I don't run tec edges as I don't feel they're too necessary, but if you're already running some I wouldn't suggest playing it without pulling a spell slot. As for using it on curve it depends on the build, but it's a "free" use on 3 as we have very few 3 drops, and if you don't want to mistbind in combat it's still great value on 4 and beyond. Basically if you end up only using it twice in the early game it ends up being very worth it. It also gives you some extra oomph to help with a t3 liliana or t4 ajani that sneaks through our counters.
As for fighting against zoo, it again depends on your build, but here it's mostly about weather you're running swords or scions. I think that if you're running scions cryptics are gold because they'll help you set up a favorable race with a fog effect and an sudden bonus 3-6 damage from the scion. But managing to connect with a sword (and successfully equipping one for that matter) is a bigger priority and cryptic doesn't help with that. What I've been doing is just cutting all of my discard on the play for damnation, EE, death marks, etc. while pulling all of my mana leaks on the draw and leave in some discard. This is all assuming you're talking about 1 drop zoo instead of "big" zoo with more 3s and 4s.
My best advice is to never use your mistbinds just to "get a breather" so to speak. Always use them to either eat an attacker, ensure you can equip a sword, or tap them out when you're SURE you can start to race them. Just using them as a value mana short on their upkeep is a mistake I was making a lot when I first started. Once I stopped doing that my MU went from like 20% in my favor up to 40% and up. It is extremely draw dependent as you both have draws that are crazy powerful.
As for spell skite, it's nice and if you're running 26 lands with heavy colored sources and can REGULARLY pay mana for the activation it's pretty good at protecting you and your dorks. But if you typically can't afford to do so you have to ask your self: Would I ever side in a TWO mana Kraken Hatchling under any circumstances?
Also, even if I repeat myself, why disfigure? Tragic slip kills the dork anyway and is useful lategame against anything. Same goes for vendetta / deathmark. I just don't think disfigure is any good right now.
This has been my experience with disfigure as well. When I started writing out my initial list I slammed 4 in right away, but then I remembered that since DRS is gone, there's nothing on T1 that absolutely must die asap. Tragic slip is something I've been slowly warming up to, but there has to be a different option, it just seems so mopey to me. As for dealing with a T2 lili what I've been doing is just playing my normal game plan (assuming no T2 blossom) and eventually beating her down using tar pits rather easily.
What are your thoughts on a singleton Pendelhaven in a build without scions in it? Against zoo this is the card I seem to want in my opener more than anything after BB. It lets all of your dorks stop their horde of 2/3s and BTE's. It also lets two blossom tokens kill a 2/3 in combat without loosing one by pumping the token they order first in blocks. I've taken to liking it more than tectonic edge because whenever I draw an edge it seems almost unnecessary as I'm either not concerned with a man land or I'm already able to race/mistbind it. That and tron is almost a bye unless they draw all 3 pieces naturally. Think it's any good or just a little too cute?
This is the same list I posted in the previous thread, still working very well.
This list is almost completely identical to the one I threw together when the unbanning was announced. I tweaked it a bit and came to almost entirely this list with about 4-5 cards different, pretty crazy that you and me are like 95% on the same page with faeries. I've decided to cut the edges and run 25 lands total. I haven't felt a need for tec edge yet and with 26 I always flood beyond my ability to attack with my man lands. I'm also running a single temple of deceit and a Pendelhaven. The pendelhaven may seem like it's a little too cute or a non-bo with scions, but I have been extremely impressed with it, especially in my opener. It allows your 1/1s to block a kird ape without dying and can double up to just eat them. It also gives you random value when attacking walkers like liliana and gives your opponent yet another random trick to keep in mind when playing.
For the mana base I've been in love with 4 river of tears and have not once been happy with the filter lands. I also agree that shocks/fetches are completely unecessary with only 2 colors.
On the topic of removal I hate having disfigures in the deck since there is almost nothing on turn 1 that you can kill with it of relevence since DRS is gone. And if you think that disfigure will ever actually kill a wild nacatl, you must be mistaken. I've been running a mix of GFtT, doom blade, and smother. The creatures I feel we should be most worried about are potentially wurm coils, resto angels, bobby, and everything from zoo. While GFtT is a dead card against affinity, I don't think having 2-3 is that bad since BB is so insane against them game 1 it almost doesn't matter. Almost.
I've also been trying bile blight lately as a 2-of and it's been about average. i think that it can eat all of the wurm coil engine tokens and can trash a heavy BTE draw makes me like it probably mroe than I should. But running it with "proper" removal like doom blade and GFtT may make them worth it. However the utility and "tricksy-ness" of agony warp is also worth talking about as it can sometimes be considered our pseudo lightning helix.
I still don't like the idea that tec edge is "great" against tron because I've never once been able to hit a land and keep them off tron without them having one of their 500 tutors ready or see them sitting with 3 tron lands out and being quite happy. But with the large amount of counter magic we have it might be a real thing to do now (outside of the natural turn 3 tron) with SSS being amazing against all of their tutors.
So far my biggest worry is getting out-valued by pod and run over by zoo while the rest of the match ups I'm fairly certain are at least even, and grossly in our favor if we stick a t2 blossom. What are everyone's plans against pod so far? In my experience it comes down to extremely tight play and not getting hit with a turn 2 birthing pod. BB is awesome, but a turn 2 pod is typically lights out if you left your racing shoes at home. However if neither deck gets their nutty opener the first mistake tends to snowball very fast because of the power level of the cards each deck has.
The the test list I'm running for "big" zoo (which changes almost hourly it seems) is more of a curve out deck with tribal flames, smiter and GoST, while little zoo is plain naya with things like experiment one, BTE and ghor clan rampager. I'm using it because with so much zoo being played initially the prevailing logic in aggro mirrors is to go a little slower and a little bigger so it's worth having in your gauntlet in addition to the "empty my hand on t3 and fold to wrath of god" versions of zoo.
As for boarding against the different versions, mana leak is almost dead against little zoo on the draw as they can regularly play triple one drops and then save up burn. While big zoo has things like GoST and tribal flames which you REALLY want a counter for. Meanwhile discard is very questionable against both versions and I'd much rather just make a straight swap for EE and damnation. And the game plan is basically the same as any control deck against an all in aggro deck or a traditional aggro deck that curves out at 3 or 4, except you don't have wraths main deck. If your opener has 2-3 4 drops in it, mulligan instantly because you'll be dead before they matter. BB buys you a ton of time, but you have to always be thinking of when you're able to start racing. The main difference is that bigger zoo has much more threatening spells than little zoo.
Here's my current list. I'm still enjoying pendelhaven in this version, but I'm still wondering if it's worth a spot or if I should run tec edges for gavony township in pod and the 7 manlands out of jund. If I decide to run tec edge, I'll cut 1 inquisition and 1 pendelhaven and add two tec edges as just running only one seems a bit silly to me for some reason.
4x bitterblossom
4x spellstutter sprite
4x mistbind clique
2x Vendilion Clique
4x cryptic command
3x mana leak
2x spell snare (considering switching these for 2 tragic slips)
3x thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x sword of fire and ice
1x sword of light and shadow
2x smother
2x go for the throat
1x agony warp (may want another because of how good it is against zoo)
4x secluded glen
4x darkslick shores
4x mutavault
3x river of tears
3x creeping tar pit
1x sunken ruins
1x pendelhaven
3x island
2x swamp
As for the sideboard, that's entirely up in the air. All I know for sure is that we'll want some number of damnation, EE, death mark, and a batterskull. One thing that I haven't tested out yet but am very interested in is a full play set of scions in the board for a pseudo surprise super aggro plan. No idea if that's even good, but it's a plan worth exploring I think. Another few cards I'm really interested in, but haven't been able to get much of a grasp on is bile blight, serum visions, and jace beleren.
And if anybody disagrees with anything I've said, please poke me and call me an idiot. I don't think the fae will be a tier 1 deck out of the gates, but has the potential to get there and I really want to make it work.
EDIT: @ Udrew
I'm not saying that spellskite is a bad card or that it has no business in the board, I run two personally. Like you said it's awesome against a few decks out there, even burn. I just want to make sure it's clear what you're pulling in against zoo specifically as that's what you were questioning. It's a 2 mana 0/4 that may or may not have rules text on it in that specific match up. If you have enough cards to take out then by all means. But I'd look to cutting leaks and discard usually before looking at cryptics and mistbinds because they are what tend to win games as needing to race with a mistbind or scion/sword is very common. However if great sable stag becomes popular again then I'd totally bring them in no questions as people used to run Wall of Tanglecord for the same reason. The skite seems like a much better option in the modern format than the days of yore.
I agree with all your points on the pendelhaven, but have a few thing to point out. It is a colorless source and like you said makes things awkward with a set of mutavaults. But in my list I don't run tec edges as I don't feel they're too necessary, but if you're already running some I wouldn't suggest playing it without pulling a spell slot. As for using it on curve it depends on the build, but it's a "free" use on 3 as we have very few 3 drops, and if you don't want to mistbind in combat it's still great value on 4 and beyond. Basically if you end up only using it twice in the early game it ends up being very worth it. It also gives you some extra oomph to help with a t3 liliana or t4 ajani that sneaks through our counters.
As for fighting against zoo, it again depends on your build, but here it's mostly about weather you're running swords or scions. I think that if you're running scions cryptics are gold because they'll help you set up a favorable race with a fog effect and an sudden bonus 3-6 damage from the scion. But managing to connect with a sword (and successfully equipping one for that matter) is a bigger priority and cryptic doesn't help with that. What I've been doing is just cutting all of my discard on the play for damnation, EE, death marks, etc. while pulling all of my mana leaks on the draw and leave in some discard. This is all assuming you're talking about 1 drop zoo instead of "big" zoo with more 3s and 4s.
My best advice is to never use your mistbinds just to "get a breather" so to speak. Always use them to either eat an attacker, ensure you can equip a sword, or tap them out when you're SURE you can start to race them. Just using them as a value mana short on their upkeep is a mistake I was making a lot when I first started. Once I stopped doing that my MU went from like 20% in my favor up to 40% and up. It is extremely draw dependent as you both have draws that are crazy powerful.
As for spell skite, it's nice and if you're running 26 lands with heavy colored sources and can REGULARLY pay mana for the activation it's pretty good at protecting you and your dorks. But if you typically can't afford to do so you have to ask your self: Would I ever side in a TWO mana Kraken Hatchling under any circumstances?
This has been my experience with disfigure as well. When I started writing out my initial list I slammed 4 in right away, but then I remembered that since DRS is gone, there's nothing on T1 that absolutely must die asap. Tragic slip is something I've been slowly warming up to, but there has to be a different option, it just seems so mopey to me. As for dealing with a T2 lili what I've been doing is just playing my normal game plan (assuming no T2 blossom) and eventually beating her down using tar pits rather easily.
What are your thoughts on a singleton Pendelhaven in a build without scions in it? Against zoo this is the card I seem to want in my opener more than anything after BB. It lets all of your dorks stop their horde of 2/3s and BTE's. It also lets two blossom tokens kill a 2/3 in combat without loosing one by pumping the token they order first in blocks. I've taken to liking it more than tectonic edge because whenever I draw an edge it seems almost unnecessary as I'm either not concerned with a man land or I'm already able to race/mistbind it. That and tron is almost a bye unless they draw all 3 pieces naturally. Think it's any good or just a little too cute?
This list is almost completely identical to the one I threw together when the unbanning was announced. I tweaked it a bit and came to almost entirely this list with about 4-5 cards different, pretty crazy that you and me are like 95% on the same page with faeries. I've decided to cut the edges and run 25 lands total. I haven't felt a need for tec edge yet and with 26 I always flood beyond my ability to attack with my man lands. I'm also running a single temple of deceit and a Pendelhaven. The pendelhaven may seem like it's a little too cute or a non-bo with scions, but I have been extremely impressed with it, especially in my opener. It allows your 1/1s to block a kird ape without dying and can double up to just eat them. It also gives you random value when attacking walkers like liliana and gives your opponent yet another random trick to keep in mind when playing.
For the mana base I've been in love with 4 river of tears and have not once been happy with the filter lands. I also agree that shocks/fetches are completely unecessary with only 2 colors.
On the topic of removal I hate having disfigures in the deck since there is almost nothing on turn 1 that you can kill with it of relevence since DRS is gone. And if you think that disfigure will ever actually kill a wild nacatl, you must be mistaken. I've been running a mix of GFtT, doom blade, and smother. The creatures I feel we should be most worried about are potentially wurm coils, resto angels, bobby, and everything from zoo. While GFtT is a dead card against affinity, I don't think having 2-3 is that bad since BB is so insane against them game 1 it almost doesn't matter. Almost.
I've also been trying bile blight lately as a 2-of and it's been about average. i think that it can eat all of the wurm coil engine tokens and can trash a heavy BTE draw makes me like it probably mroe than I should. But running it with "proper" removal like doom blade and GFtT may make them worth it. However the utility and "tricksy-ness" of agony warp is also worth talking about as it can sometimes be considered our pseudo lightning helix.