I have my final version of Pact Green Devotion, which I think is the best iteration of the deck yet. And I think it's a strong Tier 2 deck now. I'm going to GP Mexico City to get some Sun, beach time and Mexican putas and I'll be playing this deck, so I won't share my decklist until after. I could be playing a different deck, but it's always my style to play a good deck that's played by very few people, if anyone at all. A deck that I can feel is my own brew makes winning much more satisfying.
The deck is fun and the hardest deck I've every played at times, and I've played a lot of decks, because it involves more arithmetic than any other deck.
So, in a competitive Meta, I think Chameleon Colossus is essential to deal with Death's Shadow Jund. It's the best deck in the format and also very popular. It might even be Maindeck worthy instead of Thrun. It's really great with Push and Death's Shadow everywhere.
The one thing I'm unsure of, is if Command is better than Pact. It enables you to deal with Blood Moon Ensnaring Bridge or Planeswalkers. Sure, I can't win out of nowhere with a turn 3 lethal Craterhoof, but the utility of Command is great. Not to mention, Command is potentially absurd vs Death's Shadow. Have them gain life and kill their Death's Shadows. Seems good. I'd be very confident with the Burn matchup as well.
It might be right to replace the Pacts with Commands. I'm not sure about this but I'll have to figure it out before Mexico City. Cheers
So yeah, this is the list I'm taking to the SCG Legacy Open next Month, because it's not too far from where I live. It will be my first Legacy GP and the first big tournament with the deck. Wish me luck!
I would run no more than 4x 6cc Creatures. It could be right for the Charioteers to be in the maindeck, there's just really nothing I want to cut. Possibly 1x Winter Orb and/or 1x CotW. I like protector because it does a lot of what Charioteers does, and it also turns on Monarch, regains Monarch and of course "protects" the Crown. I don't think the added power, Vigilance and bodies is important enough with CotW to make it better than Protector, except it's nice vs Jace and Lily. The Vigilance is also good at protecting Monarch, but ultimately I think Protector does more. And I feel like with Protector and 2 Charioteers in the Sideboard, my matchup against D&T and TNN and Delver will be much better now. TNN decks and Delver were some of the hardest decks for us to face up against, and that's why I like Protector so much. Problem with Delver is the Wasteland can prevent me from getting to 6 mana fast enough, but as long as I get Protector down the turn before they kill me I'm Gucci. D&T is already a pretty even matchup, with game one being in their favor, and postboard being slightly in our favor. But I don't want to go into a tournament with a 50-50 chance. I want to feel like I have at least a 70 percent chance of beating every deck and with Protector and Charioteers I think that the chance goes up to 70-30 in my favor. It's true that sometimes dropping a fast CotW when ahead on board just overwhelms too fast and that speed can be great "hate" in the sense that some decks won't have time to stabilize, or Ad Nauseum will be at too low a life total to combo off. All in all I think I do have at least a 70-30 chance against most top tier decks I can think of with this list (i.e. Miracles, Ad Nauseum, Reanimator, D&T, Delver, TNN Variants, Lands). Shardless BUG will probably be a better matchup with Protector because the Baleful Strix stealing Monarch was a problem. Of course, the Deathtouch still kills the Protector, but it buys another turn at least.
Eldrazi is a matchup I'm more scared to face up against, although still very winnable, I'm unsure of the percentage, partially because I haven't seen much Eldrazi on Cockatrice for a while. I do think Protector will be fine here as well, although now I can't rely on overpowering with Lords, if the game stalls I have to hope to draw a my Charioteers and fly over them.
With a fat booty on Protector, we also worry less about Captaining him into play to his immediate demise, which could be an issue with CotW.
@DrMarkb I don't think it would be wise for me to run less than 4 Captain in my list since I have Winter Orb and Hokori. 3 Captain doesn't seem too insane, since it's not the card I want to be casting first anyways, it is is one of the cards with least priority in the casting order. Once I've landed hate cards though, the goal is to land a Captain and start pumping out creatures and dmg.
Lucky for @Astebel, since I will be going to this tournament I want to be prepared, and I will be writing down all the Sideboard swaps, and matchup notes for myself. I will share those notes, and I can turn that into a primer while I'm at it perhaps.
I probably should look into the Meta in Massachusetts as well.
@CurdBros
About our Storm and noncreature spell matchups. Well that "noncreature" word is key here. And yes, without hate cards maindeck, our gameplan is to race them. The pact version is fast enough to win turn 3-4, so it happens, but I have Ruric Thar in the mainboard to make those matchups even better. Basically none of the combo decks can win without dealing with a Ruric Thar, except perhaps Ad Nauseum if they already have the pieces in hand. He's also good vs Control matchups. At worst, he's a 6/6 Vigilance Reach, a body that is bigger than almost all creatures we'll see, that's going to hit them for 6 to the face if they want to Path him.
I was trying to figure out why this deck was good enough to place first at a TCG States. Again I'm not sure how many players were at the tournament, or even how competitive the scene is there, but no doubt he played against top Tier decks.
There's one glaring difference between this list and some others I've seen. He runs 4 Courser of Kruphix. I think I underestimated this card. I'm running a list with 4 now, and it's really really good. The body, lifegain, and pseudo card draw, plus the ability to see your top card and know if you should fetch or not can create a lot of value. It doesn't die to bolt or Anger, and it also only dies to a Revolt triggered Fatal Push. It's a replacement for Kitchen Finks and also Nissa, which free up space in the sideboard. As much as I like Nissa, I don't think she's as good as Courser. You can get a lot of value out of him fast. He can't repeatedly chump block a big fatty, and that's the major difference. I can deal with that.
After testing the Bellower list, the deck isn't doing it for me. It quite possible that a Bellower list has the potential to be better than Primeval list, but it doesn't appear that way right now. So I'm sticking with a Primeval Titan list but I will keep Bellower in mind.
I test on Cockatrice, and so I play against a lot of Rogue decks and Tier 2-3 lists. Unfortunately I haven't played against Death's Shadow much at all.
Yeah, I totally forgot that Jailer was illegal, and that kind of card draw is meant for grinding anyways.
Out of the Bellower targets I compiled, I think that the creatures with the most potential are Vexing Shaman, Reverent Hunter, Dungrove ElderDauntless Escort and Troll Ascetic. Dungrove Elder an get huge, although we aren't land ramping, so it will take a few turns for him to be enormous, but he's hard to deal with. Likewise, Troll Ascetic is even harder to deal with and provides one more devotion, an even better Kessig target. Probably just better than Elder. Reverent Hunter will be massive as soon as he hits the bf. He dies to removal, but they need to answer him or he will close out the game fast, especially with a Kessig. Vexing Shaman is a 2 devotion 2 drop that can nullify all of our opponents countespells.
The 1 Devotion from Visionary makes it seem much worse than BTE. The potential explosiveness that BTE provides seems better than drawing a single card.
This is the current Bellower Devotion list I'm testing
Some things I like about the Bellower version. It definitely allows for some value, and a grindier game. We can now run more hate creatures that can be fetched with Bellower. So we get a big body and a hate card as well. The small creatures are also not too hard to Chord for in the early stages of the game when it matters most.
I'm haven't actually played with Heartwood Storyteller, but I'm not convinced it's good yet.
Firstly, how did you multiquote like that? I can't seem to do it efficiently.
I haven't tested Whisperwood, but it seems like Manifesting creatures isn't great. You don't get the ETB effects for flipping them.
It's true that even in a Pact deck we can't get a enormous Palukranos activation the turn it comes into play, but I like it better than Atarka becuase it's cheap, and can potentially do more dmg, and be even larger.
Polukranos is good because it kills creatures, and that effect is not very replaceable. We can monstrous for a ton killing multiple creatures and making a huge beater. It can monstrous as soon as it comes into play, so even if they can kill it, it can get value beforehand. It's also a big big body for cheap.
I don't think you understand the point of Thragtusk. It's not meant to be played against decks running Anger of the Gods or wraths effects so much as it's meant to gain life vs Burn, and be a good value creature for aggressive creature decks that we can get down fairly quickly to mitigate the life loss.
I would compare Whisperwood to a card like Dauntless Escort. It helps against Wrath effects, but I like Dauntless because it can be fetched with Bellower.
@CurdBros, so I tested your list, albeit not much, and I had a lot of fun activating Duskwatch Recruiter 4-5 times in turn. The problem is, the value is nice, but if I just hit Craterhoof on the first activation that's all I would need to win. So I'm wondering why you took out a your single Fauna Shaman which can find him in one go? Did you find it to be a too slow? At least you can get some value out of Duskwatch without him having to live until the following turn. But there's an issue I had with him... he flips. That can make him really bad because he's in the deck to dig, not to make creatures cost 1 less. I know you mentioned that Enchantment, I forget the name, that is like a worse version of Survival of the Fittest, but because it can't be Bellowed I'm not a fan at all.
I'd like to add that when searching for ate creatures, it makes sense to look at the most similar deck in the format to our which is Abzan.
Unfortunately, a lot of their hate cards come with White mana symbols like Kataki and Ethersworn Canonist, Tidehollow Sculler, Sin Collector and Selfless Spirit. In a Chord Devotion deck, these cards are definitely more more justifiable, but I'm not sure if they are completely justifiable.
Very informative post CurdBros. Btw, I'm counting 61 cards in that Maindeck. This most recent list looks much more focused and neat as well. I'd like to mention, that if you're running Fairgrounds Warden you might want to consider Palace Jailer instead. Palace Jailer is one of the most powerful creatures every printed if you can keep your opponent from getting Monarch. I play Legacy Soldiers as my main Legacy deck and this was one of the cards that boosted this deck to an top tier deck IMO that no one plays. Except for me and a few other peeps that have witnessed it's power!!
Why do you have three copies of Elvish Visionary and 2 Copies of Selkie? I get that Selkie is a great Green Devotion as well as a cantrip, but I don't quite understand the Visionary over the BTE. I understand that it's more justifiable with Chord in the deck, and it's a two drop not 3-drop, but it's still worse with Nykthos.
Also, it would be great if you posted your sideboard as well.
In what matchup do you bring in Loaming Shaman? Dredge has died out of the meta. It can be good against some decks like Bant Retreat if you can chord for it at instant speed., and perhaps a little bit decent vs Grixis.
I do think the 4x Pact and 4x BTE lists (what I call the "Aggro Toolbox" Lists) are the fastest Devotion decks. They take advantage of Burning Tree Emissary and Summoner's Pact to get to quickly get to a 6-8 drop creature (generally Primeval Titan, Atarka, and/or Craterhoof). These tend to be best when they focus squarely on hitting a critical mass and Hoof/Overrun on turn 3-4.
I'm not sure I ever cast Pact for BTE, I definitely have for Arbor Elf, but I do it with extreme caution because I don't want to throw the game away to a single removal spell disallowing me the mana for Pact.
Chord is very interesting, also because it can potentially allow for powerful non green creatures like Magus of the Moon. I'm excited to mess test it myself, even if it it turns out that I don't think it's better than Pact. The fact that you put a creature on the bf at instant speed is what makes it seem better than Pact, especially vs counterspells. Unfortunately it turns on opponents Grafdigger's Cages.
With your dip into Green/White have you considered putting ThuneFeeder into the 75 as a way to just declare "I win"? We generate more mana than many other decks would, so we could pull it off faster. Bellower+Chord can fetch Feeder and Chord can fetch Archangel of Thune at instant speed.
Also I love the idea of Gaddock Teeg. I absolutely hate playing against Tron at the moment with any modern deck and with the rise of it at my LGS I find the idea of putting a couple of Teeg's in the sideboard would be worthwhile. In the instance of boarding in Teeg's, would you run a full 4 Genesis Hydra to replace the Chords?
Gaddock Teeg seems to hurt our plan too much, no matter how we build our deck, because it hates on Command, Garruk, Chord, Genesis and Tooth and Nail.
It could be good if we are far enough ahead on board in certain matchups. There are other ways to deal with tron (i.e Acidic Slime, Terastodon, Crumble to Dust)
I think trying to add the Thune Feeder combo is doing too much. I don't play Abzan Chord, but I think those deck are focus on the comboes, it's not really a secondary plan. They have 4x Chord and 4x Eldritch Evolution to find the combo pieces. We win by beating down, finding hate creatures, and Hoofing.
Elderscale Wurm is dealt with by casting a single Path to Exile, or an Ugin/Karn and more. Obviously it's an autowin against some decks but not enough good ones IMO. Well maybe against Death's Shadow if they can't make us sac it to Lily, and also perhaps Grixis Control. I think this is definitely a meta call.
It's seemed very strange to me at first, and still does to an extent, but after I thought about it more, Joraga could definitely be good in certain situations as well as Rishkar. Also, Rishkar is potentially amazing with Nissa! I don't like Joraga too much, maybe as a 1 to fetch with Bellower.
Rishkar's Expertise seems like a strange card, and it can't cast any of our fatties, but I suppose drawing 2-3 cards at the very least off of a small creature and then casting a Primal Command or a Plansewalker is a pretty decent play. It's definitely a lot of value.
There's so many different possibilities with this deck, and trying to find the optimal deck is definitely an enjoyable yet difficult puzzle to solve, and I love the deck because of it. I love playing fatties and having an arsenal of toolbox creatures. Also, it's the kind of deck that can be immensely improved with any new creature spoiled.
Below I've compiled a list of any Green creatures I thought could potentially see play in a Bellower deck that you can reference in the future.
So yeah I tested the deck, and it probably didn't get much attention becuase it's a bad deck. Too many pieces, too fragile, not fast enough. If they have creatures of different color you can't attack. It's just not a good deck. But a cool idea for sure. Also, you can't cast Apostle's Blessing on your Equipped creature, unless you have have it unequipped first. There's just a lot of messy parts of the deck I think.
@Gary238, I believe by R/G Ponza they are referring to only the Land Destruction deck not to our ramp deck.
Here are some decklists that have shown up recently. Both Tooth and Nail lists, and maybe that should be a separate thread, but I'd like for people to compare the two decks and see which is ultimately better.
This one took 5th at SCG Super IQ States in San Diego, CA. I'm not sure how many players attended though:
So, now that I discovered Protector of the Crown, that mixes things up. I'm not quite sure how to build the best deck in the format that no one plays. What do you think Drmarkb? I'm even considering taking it out CotW for it. I'm currently testing it 2x CotW and 2x Protector but I'll probably run 3-4 protector just for testing purposes. So we'll see how I fee later, but I've played it enough to know that it's good, just maybe not good enough to replace CotW. The thing is, the real reason this deck is good is because of the insane card draw, and hate creatures, moreso than the fact we can dump a bunch of power on the board.
I'm still not sure though, CotW is really good, and is great in late game grinds with being able to put a bunch of bodies and power down immediately. It's not a replacement for Charioteers, because they are different mana costs, and we need Charioteers to come down early in some matchups.
1) Funny thing, I have actually put Thrun back in the mainboard, because he's so good against decks running spot removal. He's also a great Kessig target. He's been good for me.
2) I definitely will not be putting Tireless Tracker in, there's better stuff for me to be doing than investigating, and there's other ways to get card advantage, one way is Nissa Ulti
3) I like your comparison of Swagdaddy to Obstinate
4) Yeah, I suppose Sudden Shock being good both against Affinity and Infect which can be issues for us, warrants its inclusion
5) I really think people are missing Terastodon from their lists, it feels great having that card in the sideboard knowing that you can deal with up to 3 problem cards all at once. The 3 Elephants are really not an issue.
Yeah..Uegjo has proven that Tooth and Nail can absolutely compete. I will post his list on the Primer (as it has seen the most success).
I've seen his lists. I'm not sure I like it though. It seems quite weak to Ghost Quarter and LD with all the Enchant Land ramp Spells. How does he deal with Counterspells?
He's running Blood Moon mainboard which is powerful, and he can definitely get away with it because he only has 1 Nykthos. I'm still unsure about Blood Moon. Is Crumble to Dust better in here? Besides Scapeshift and Tron I'm not sure when to bring in Blood Moon, but those to decks are Staples of the format. I suppose it could also be good vs Infect and some control decks?
So, I just found out about a potential gem!! Protector of the Crown has so many useful applications. Stop TNN, draws cards, stops opponent from getting Monarch, essentially gains life and turns of Burn. This card is potentially legitimately maindeck worthy!!
Funny interaction; you don't take damage from Ancient Tomb when this guy is on the bf.
The deck is fun and the hardest deck I've every played at times, and I've played a lot of decks, because it involves more arithmetic than any other deck.
So, in a competitive Meta, I think Chameleon Colossus is essential to deal with Death's Shadow Jund. It's the best deck in the format and also very popular. It might even be Maindeck worthy instead of Thrun. It's really great with Push and Death's Shadow everywhere.
The one thing I'm unsure of, is if Command is better than Pact. It enables you to deal with Blood Moon Ensnaring Bridge or Planeswalkers. Sure, I can't win out of nowhere with a turn 3 lethal Craterhoof, but the utility of Command is great. Not to mention, Command is potentially absurd vs Death's Shadow. Have them gain life and kill their Death's Shadows. Seems good. I'd be very confident with the Burn matchup as well.
It might be right to replace the Pacts with Commands. I'm not sure about this but I'll have to figure it out before Mexico City. Cheers
Artifact 10
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
2 Winter Orb
Creature 27
4 Preeminent Captain
4 Enlistment Officer
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Palace Jailer
3 Protector of the Crown
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Daru Warchief
1 Captain of the Watch
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
4 Suppression Field
Land 19
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Karakas
6 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Damping Matrix
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Containment Priest
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Dawnbringer Charioteers
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Rest in Peace
2 Holy Light
2 Council's Judgment
I would run no more than 4x 6cc Creatures. It could be right for the Charioteers to be in the maindeck, there's just really nothing I want to cut. Possibly 1x Winter Orb and/or 1x CotW. I like protector because it does a lot of what Charioteers does, and it also turns on Monarch, regains Monarch and of course "protects" the Crown. I don't think the added power, Vigilance and bodies is important enough with CotW to make it better than Protector, except it's nice vs Jace and Lily. The Vigilance is also good at protecting Monarch, but ultimately I think Protector does more. And I feel like with Protector and 2 Charioteers in the Sideboard, my matchup against D&T and TNN and Delver will be much better now. TNN decks and Delver were some of the hardest decks for us to face up against, and that's why I like Protector so much. Problem with Delver is the Wasteland can prevent me from getting to 6 mana fast enough, but as long as I get Protector down the turn before they kill me I'm Gucci. D&T is already a pretty even matchup, with game one being in their favor, and postboard being slightly in our favor. But I don't want to go into a tournament with a 50-50 chance. I want to feel like I have at least a 70 percent chance of beating every deck and with Protector and Charioteers I think that the chance goes up to 70-30 in my favor. It's true that sometimes dropping a fast CotW when ahead on board just overwhelms too fast and that speed can be great "hate" in the sense that some decks won't have time to stabilize, or Ad Nauseum will be at too low a life total to combo off. All in all I think I do have at least a 70-30 chance against most top tier decks I can think of with this list (i.e. Miracles, Ad Nauseum, Reanimator, D&T, Delver, TNN Variants, Lands). Shardless BUG will probably be a better matchup with Protector because the Baleful Strix stealing Monarch was a problem. Of course, the Deathtouch still kills the Protector, but it buys another turn at least.
Eldrazi is a matchup I'm more scared to face up against, although still very winnable, I'm unsure of the percentage, partially because I haven't seen much Eldrazi on Cockatrice for a while. I do think Protector will be fine here as well, although now I can't rely on overpowering with Lords, if the game stalls I have to hope to draw a my Charioteers and fly over them.
With a fat booty on Protector, we also worry less about Captaining him into play to his immediate demise, which could be an issue with CotW.
@DrMarkb I don't think it would be wise for me to run less than 4 Captain in my list since I have Winter Orb and Hokori. 3 Captain doesn't seem too insane, since it's not the card I want to be casting first anyways, it is is one of the cards with least priority in the casting order. Once I've landed hate cards though, the goal is to land a Captain and start pumping out creatures and dmg.
Lucky for @Astebel, since I will be going to this tournament I want to be prepared, and I will be writing down all the Sideboard swaps, and matchup notes for myself. I will share those notes, and I can turn that into a primer while I'm at it perhaps.
I probably should look into the Meta in Massachusetts as well.
About our Storm and noncreature spell matchups. Well that "noncreature" word is key here. And yes, without hate cards maindeck, our gameplan is to race them. The pact version is fast enough to win turn 3-4, so it happens, but I have Ruric Thar in the mainboard to make those matchups even better. Basically none of the combo decks can win without dealing with a Ruric Thar, except perhaps Ad Nauseum if they already have the pieces in hand. He's also good vs Control matchups. At worst, he's a 6/6 Vigilance Reach, a body that is bigger than almost all creatures we'll see, that's going to hit them for 6 to the face if they want to Path him.
I was trying to figure out why this deck was good enough to place first at a TCG States. Again I'm not sure how many players were at the tournament, or even how competitive the scene is there, but no doubt he played against top Tier decks.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/598606#online
There's one glaring difference between this list and some others I've seen. He runs 4 Courser of Kruphix. I think I underestimated this card. I'm running a list with 4 now, and it's really really good. The body, lifegain, and pseudo card draw, plus the ability to see your top card and know if you should fetch or not can create a lot of value. It doesn't die to bolt or Anger, and it also only dies to a Revolt triggered Fatal Push. It's a replacement for Kitchen Finks and also Nissa, which free up space in the sideboard. As much as I like Nissa, I don't think she's as good as Courser. You can get a lot of value out of him fast. He can't repeatedly chump block a big fatty, and that's the major difference. I can deal with that.
After testing the Bellower list, the deck isn't doing it for me. It quite possible that a Bellower list has the potential to be better than Primeval list, but it doesn't appear that way right now. So I'm sticking with a Primeval Titan list but I will keep Bellower in mind.
I test on Cockatrice, and so I play against a lot of Rogue decks and Tier 2-3 lists. Unfortunately I haven't played against Death's Shadow much at all.
I'm also testing Joraga over Birds.
Current Green Devotion List
Creature 23
4 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Joraga Treespeaker
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eternal Witness
3 Primeval Titan
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Acidic Slime
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Enchantment 7
3 Oath of Nissa
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Summoner's Pact
Land 21
7 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Raging Ravine
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Primal Command
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Terastodon
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Hornet Queen
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Creeping Mold
1 Creeping Corrosion
Out of the Bellower targets I compiled, I think that the creatures with the most potential are Vexing Shaman, Reverent Hunter, Dungrove Elder Dauntless Escort and Troll Ascetic. Dungrove Elder an get huge, although we aren't land ramping, so it will take a few turns for him to be enormous, but he's hard to deal with. Likewise, Troll Ascetic is even harder to deal with and provides one more devotion, an even better Kessig target. Probably just better than Elder. Reverent Hunter will be massive as soon as he hits the bf. He dies to removal, but they need to answer him or he will close out the game fast, especially with a Kessig. Vexing Shaman is a 2 devotion 2 drop that can nullify all of our opponents countespells.
The 1 Devotion from Visionary makes it seem much worse than BTE. The potential explosiveness that BTE provides seems better than drawing a single card.
This is the current Bellower Devotion list I'm testing
Creature 23
4 Arbor Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Eternal Witness
2 Woodland Bellower
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Primeval Titan
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Oath of Nissa
Instant 4
4 Chord of Calling
Land 21
5 Forest
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Planeswalker 5
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Heartwood Storyteller
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Terastodon
1 Thragtusk
1 Hornet Queen
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Troll Ascetic
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Sudden Shock
2 Creeping Corrosion
Some things I like about the Bellower version. It definitely allows for some value, and a grindier game. We can now run more hate creatures that can be fetched with Bellower. So we get a big body and a hate card as well. The small creatures are also not too hard to Chord for in the early stages of the game when it matters most.
I'm haven't actually played with Heartwood Storyteller, but I'm not convinced it's good yet.
Firstly, how did you multiquote like that? I can't seem to do it efficiently.
I haven't tested Whisperwood, but it seems like Manifesting creatures isn't great. You don't get the ETB effects for flipping them.
It's true that even in a Pact deck we can't get a enormous Palukranos activation the turn it comes into play, but I like it better than Atarka becuase it's cheap, and can potentially do more dmg, and be even larger.
I don't think you understand the point of Thragtusk. It's not meant to be played against decks running Anger of the Gods or wraths effects so much as it's meant to gain life vs Burn, and be a good value creature for aggressive creature decks that we can get down fairly quickly to mitigate the life loss.
I would compare Whisperwood to a card like Dauntless Escort. It helps against Wrath effects, but I like Dauntless because it can be fetched with Bellower.
I'd like to add that when searching for ate creatures, it makes sense to look at the most similar deck in the format to our which is Abzan.
Unfortunately, a lot of their hate cards come with White mana symbols like Kataki and Ethersworn Canonist, Tidehollow Sculler, Sin Collector and Selfless Spirit. In a Chord Devotion deck, these cards are definitely more more justifiable, but I'm not sure if they are completely justifiable.
Why do you have three copies of Elvish Visionary and 2 Copies of Selkie? I get that Selkie is a great Green Devotion as well as a cantrip, but I don't quite understand the Visionary over the BTE. I understand that it's more justifiable with Chord in the deck, and it's a two drop not 3-drop, but it's still worse with Nykthos.
Also, it would be great if you posted your sideboard as well.
In what matchup do you bring in Loaming Shaman? Dredge has died out of the meta. It can be good against some decks like Bant Retreat if you can chord for it at instant speed., and perhaps a little bit decent vs Grixis.
I'm not sure I ever cast Pact for BTE, I definitely have for Arbor Elf, but I do it with extreme caution because I don't want to throw the game away to a single removal spell disallowing me the mana for Pact.
Chord is very interesting, also because it can potentially allow for powerful non green creatures like Magus of the Moon. I'm excited to mess test it myself, even if it it turns out that I don't think it's better than Pact. The fact that you put a creature on the bf at instant speed is what makes it seem better than Pact, especially vs counterspells. Unfortunately it turns on opponents Grafdigger's Cages.
Some thoughts on other cards:
Gaddock Teeg seems to hurt our plan too much, no matter how we build our deck, because it hates on Command, Garruk, Chord, Genesis and Tooth and Nail.
It could be good if we are far enough ahead on board in certain matchups. There are other ways to deal with tron (i.e Acidic Slime, Terastodon, Crumble to Dust)
I think trying to add the Thune Feeder combo is doing too much. I don't play Abzan Chord, but I think those deck are focus on the comboes, it's not really a secondary plan. They have 4x Chord and 4x Eldritch Evolution to find the combo pieces. We win by beating down, finding hate creatures, and Hoofing.
Elderscale Wurm is dealt with by casting a single Path to Exile, or an Ugin/Karn and more. Obviously it's an autowin against some decks but not enough good ones IMO. Well maybe against Death's Shadow if they can't make us sac it to Lily, and also perhaps Grixis Control. I think this is definitely a meta call.
That list with Rishkar, Peema Renegade and Rishkar's Expertise that placed first at the Wyoming TCG States is very unique!
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/598606#online
It's seemed very strange to me at first, and still does to an extent, but after I thought about it more, Joraga could definitely be good in certain situations as well as Rishkar. Also, Rishkar is potentially amazing with Nissa! I don't like Joraga too much, maybe as a 1 to fetch with Bellower.
Rishkar's Expertise seems like a strange card, and it can't cast any of our fatties, but I suppose drawing 2-3 cards at the very least off of a small creature and then casting a Primal Command or a Plansewalker is a pretty decent play. It's definitely a lot of value.
How do we feel about Cavern of Souls and Boseiju, Who Shelters All for the control matchups? Obviously Boseiju is pointless in the Pact lists.
There's so many different possibilities with this deck, and trying to find the optimal deck is definitely an enjoyable yet difficult puzzle to solve, and I love the deck because of it. I love playing fatties and having an arsenal of toolbox creatures. Also, it's the kind of deck that can be immensely improved with any new creature spoiled.
Below I've compiled a list of any Green creatures I thought could potentially see play in a Bellower deck that you can reference in the future.
Here are some decklists that have shown up recently. Both Tooth and Nail lists, and maybe that should be a separate thread, but I'd like for people to compare the two decks and see which is ultimately better.
This one took 5th at SCG Super IQ States in San Diego, CA. I'm not sure how many players attended though:
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=20965&iddeck=160340
This one took 1st at an SCG Qualifier, again I'm unsure of how many players show up though:
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=20965&iddeck=160340
I'm still not sure though, CotW is really good, and is great in late game grinds with being able to put a bunch of bodies and power down immediately. It's not a replacement for Charioteers, because they are different mana costs, and we need Charioteers to come down early in some matchups.
1) Funny thing, I have actually put Thrun back in the mainboard, because he's so good against decks running spot removal. He's also a great Kessig target. He's been good for me.
2) I definitely will not be putting Tireless Tracker in, there's better stuff for me to be doing than investigating, and there's other ways to get card advantage, one way is Nissa Ulti
3) I like your comparison of Swagdaddy to Obstinate
4) Yeah, I suppose Sudden Shock being good both against Affinity and Infect which can be issues for us, warrants its inclusion
5) I really think people are missing Terastodon from their lists, it feels great having that card in the sideboard knowing that you can deal with up to 3 problem cards all at once. The 3 Elephants are really not an issue.
I've seen his lists. I'm not sure I like it though. It seems quite weak to Ghost Quarter and LD with all the Enchant Land ramp Spells. How does he deal with Counterspells?
He's running Blood Moon mainboard which is powerful, and he can definitely get away with it because he only has 1 Nykthos. I'm still unsure about Blood Moon. Is Crumble to Dust better in here? Besides Scapeshift and Tron I'm not sure when to bring in Blood Moon, but those to decks are Staples of the format. I suppose it could also be good vs Infect and some control decks?
Funny interaction; you don't take damage from Ancient Tomb when this guy is on the bf.