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  • posted a message on Jund
    Is there any merrit to running just 13 creatures in favor of more removal instead of 14? (In 25 land build with 4 manlands)
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Quote from FlyingDelver »
    Upon high demand I made a counterpart for my recently published Rock compact SB Guide for Jund as well. So I present you the newest addition to the primer, a compact SB Guide for Jund, which you can download. It features the gauntlet used in the primer as a guide to quickly have access to the ins and outs of a particular matchup. Right now I have linked V1.0, but I will keep it updated. I hope this handy tool will serve you well! You can find the link in the primer.



    Much apreciated! Grin
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    When I look on mtgtop8 at the jund decks that got into a top 8 in the past two weeks the average landbase is 24, bloodbraid count is 4 and average 7drop count is 8. Sure this is all on average, but im seeing a lot of jund decks getting away with greed. Jadines did run 24 lands last weekend but only 3 BBE and 7 3drops, but still does the 1 less BBE not make here list greedy? I guess it doesnt, but then why is everyone else advocating for 25 lands? I want to run less lands and more cards too. #thirdworldproblems
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Quote from Ayiluss »
    @Spsiegel: I agree with Modern being faster and most (top) decks being more consistant which makes less painful mana base more important than ever. You're right about 8 fetchlands being enough for that reason (less painful manabase and still consistent enough). With this in minds and the fact that you like Twillight Mire, do you think that adding Twilight mire instead of 2nd Wooded Foothills (I'm talking about my list I posted above) would be good idea?

    Concerning GBx vs UW Control I have to say that I'm not really sure. One reason could be that Jund and other GBx decks are better against combo decks (except for KCI) so if you expect to see more of these then GBx decks are better choice. I personally believe that GBx decks have better mu against Spirits which tends to be favored against UW Control while GBx decks are at least 50:50 against them (based on my experiences). Talking about Jund it has at least as good mu if not better against Humans because of Meddling Mage who can shut down Terminus (I think Jeskai control for example is much better against Humans than UW Control). Furthermore Burn is pretty tough mu for UW Control while at least GB Rock has a good mu against it (at least as long as you play MD Collective Brutality and some additional life gain in sb).

    One thing to note here is that I think (this is only my opinion though so take this with a grain of salt) I think Jund (not sure about other GBx decks) is better than UW Control against Dredge or less bad if you want so. This is because Jund has MD gy hate in the form of Scavenging Ooze which might steal game 1 occasionally (not very likely but it's possible, I've already managed to do it). UW Control doesn't except for Path to Exile which can act like that to some extent. Another thing is that Anger of the Gods is better than Terminus because it gets rid of creatures forever. Terminus on the other hand only puts them on the bottom which is better than putting them in the gy but still not the best. This leaves up opportunity for Dredge player to get them back-they can play around Terminus (a bit) if they leave uncracked fetchland and crack it after Terminus to shuffle creature that were put on the bottom of the library. Then they can Dredge or discard them again. In black colors you also have access to Kalitas. It's not big difference though but (in my opinion) it is and Dredge is a reason (in my opinion again) as of why UW Control slightly dropped in numbers after Dredge started to put up bigger numbers again.


    Concerning the question about replacing the 9th fetch for a twilight, you are running some double red spells in the sideboard and the 9th fetch gives you 18 red sources which is quite nice
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Quote from FlyingDelver »
    The goal is to make your best 60 after sideboard. This doesn't have to be that you should side in all cards that you could potentially find useful for the matchup, the question is, is this card more useful than the card I bring out? If you have too many cards to bring in, it could also be an indicator that your sideboard is not fully balanced, as you potentially have more cards which do similar things.

    In your case, I would cut the Bolts, all IOKs and bring in EE, Damnation, Pulse and 2 Finks and 2 Spellbombs. The weaker cards in the matchup are Fulminator and Last Hope.


    I have this issue against a couple of decks because my small local meta im often over prepared, which makes my sideboard plan shaky the mainboard plan diluted. same goes against affinity and bant spirits, which are highly played here
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Regarding the GDS sideboard plan.
    I have a lot more cards that are good to board in but not enough to board out as the sideboard guideline would suguest. Ive only got 3 bolts that are a sure board out, then discard, but the primer suguest to only board out a few inquisitions and even if I did board out all discard, that would only come down to 9 cards to board out and ive got 11 cards I could board in. 2 finks, 2 spellbombs, E.E., Damnation,Pulse, lili last hope and 3 mages to board in potentially..how would you aproach such a situation? The weakest sideboard card is probably fulminator, especially paired with Trophy. But boarding out all the discard would play right into their plan to play a big threat and protect it with a stubborn denial and quickly win the game

    “Board Out
    Lightning Bolt
    Abrupt Decay
    Collective Brutality
    Grim Lavamancer
    Inquisition of Kozilek (1-2)

    Board In
    Kitchen Finks
    Nihil Spellbomb
    Assassin's Trophy
    Damnation
    Maelstrom Pulse
    Engineered Explosives
    Liliana, the Last Hope
    Kolaghan's Command
    Fulminator Mage”
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Quote from FlyingDelver »
    @Jori This is a fair assessment, however I think these scenarios are more or less specific scenarios. Ooze can help to retain life if they don't have inkmoth. But I do think TS got more value against Affinity since some lists started to play Karn now. Maybe you can change the SB plan and make a small hedge of that by keeping 1 TS in and board in 1 Ooze instead. But I do think these small hedges are within the realm of personal assessment and skill of the matchup.


    Thats true, my cases where I lost it wouldnt have mattered if I had thoughtseize or scooze, sometimes u die to a pumped up champion or inkmoth with sick topdecks. I do think that it should specify in the sideboard primer for affinity, that taking out some number of scoozes and more BBE is fine if u have better cards in the sideboard.

    On that note, I will exchange 1 Anger for a kozileks return for next time,solves both manlands and champion problem, they never see it comming. Bad vs spirits and humans, but not totaly dead and easier to cast, plus suprise element.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    @FlyingDelver This is from the Sideboard primer;

    Affinity

    "Board Out
    Thoughtseize
    Liliana of the Veil
    Mountain or Forest
    (25 land builds only)
    Bloodbraid Elf (1-2)"

    I would argue that on the play and even on the draw you want thoughtseize to strip away their 2-3 drops, and Scooze is not so hot in the matchup along with bloodbraid. I even found liliana lasthope underwheling today, she hardly kills anything that matters, especially manlands, ravager, champion.

    I lost in the semi finale today against affinity 1-2, it was also my only loss in the swiss round 1 with 0-2, first I lost against etched champion, and in the semi against inkmoth +topdeck ravager, for this reason im pretty sure I want kozileks return back in my sideboard, sick of losing to those cards.

    I find that I often lose to etched champion or inkmoth nexus in the matchups, and ive got very few awnsers postboard for champion, so keeping the discard would help their.

    I did topdeck dead discard later on a few times, but those would have been scooze, liliana, bloodbraids which wouldnt have helped me kill inkmoth nexus anyways, maybe bloodbraid, but I still had 1 in the deck anyways and I understand its to expensive to matter, you might be dead by the time u cast it, but I think scooze should be on the ''board out'' plan for affinity, sure it can grow, but I hardly have time to utilize scooze and the card doesnt help against dying to poison counters.

    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    @FlyingDelver I like twilight mire because it always comes down untapped, can help feed the scooze, pay for finks and liliana easily. But I do see my list being a little light on black sources, might try and get my hands on a nineth fetchland. Not sure about the basic mountain vs 2nd forest, will see tomorrow if I regret it :p

    You have any sideboard tips vs Eldrazi taxes @FlyingDelver?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Regarding the GDS matchup, I read that its a grindy matchup in which you want kcommand and liliana last hope and get rid of some inquisitions.
    I find id rather keep all discard and leave out kcommand and liliana last hope, the matchup often comes down to them landing a gangler or Shadow back up by a stubborn denial. and then they win in 1-3 turns, while u have a useless value spell in hand... I think its better to discard their treaths or counter spell proactively.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Thoughts?

    Facing a small meta tomorrow with some known decks that might show up, not 100% sure about any of them though, a lot of the small meta have different decks they bring.

    1-2 afinity, scapeshift, bant spirits, GDS, GreenTron, hardened scales, grixis control, UW control, jeskai control, mardu pyromancer, tooth and nail, boggles, living end, pox, hollow one, humans, storm

    25 lands
    4 blackcleave cliffs
    1 twilight mire
    2 overgrown tomb
    1 bloodcrypt
    1 stomping ground
    3 raging ravine
    4 verdant catacombs
    1 wooded foothills
    3 bloodstained mire
    2 swamp
    1 forest
    1 mountain
    1 treetop village

    14 creatures
    4 bloodbraid
    3 dark confidant
    4 goyf
    3 scooze

    21 spells
    4 liliana of the veil
    1 fatal push
    2 kcommand
    4 assassin’s trophy
    4 lightning bolt
    2 thoughtseize
    4 inquisition

    Sideboard 15
    1 maelstrom pulse
    1 surgical
    1 thoughtseize
    3 fulmiMage
    1 Collective brutality
    1 Anger of the gods
    1 engineered explosives
    2 nihil Spellbomb
    1 liliana the last hope
    2 kitchen finks
    1 damnation
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Quote from Ayiluss »
    It's because they don't go well together. If you have Damping Sphere in the play Twilight Mire will produce only colorless mana and no any combination of bg which it otherwise does.

    Twilight Mire will still tap for 1 colourless though, meaning you landed your powerful sideboardcard on turn2 which means youre winning anyway, turning your twilight into a colourless land seems like a small price to pay to slow down or shut down storm and tron/eldrazi lands.

    @FlyingDelver Ok, so I want to run 25 lands because several reasons; I hate getting land screwed more than flooded, there is a fair amount of path to exile/ghost quarter/ field of ruins/ settle the wreckage in my meta, I have a history of getting land screwed and/or colour screwed out of the game which would otherwise be a win, there is a fair amount of UW and jeskai in my meta therefore I want to play 4 BBE.

    Im thinking this:
    25 lands + 4BBE + 7/8 3drops
    3 raging ravine
    1 treetop village
    4 blackcleave cliffs
    1 twilight mire
    2 swamp
    1 forest
    1 mountain
    2 ovegrown tomb
    1 blood crypt
    1 stomping ground
    4 verdant catacombs
    3 bloodstained mire
    1 wooded foothills

    @FlyingDelver I always look over the Sideboard Primer on here before a tournament. Very useful and I thank you for keeping it up to date. I do however wonder about a few sideboard cards that arent in there that might be worth it, Choke (silver bullet), Alpine Moon (Silver bullet), Rakdos Charm and Jund Charm (both very versatile for when you need some extra graveyard or artifact hate or sweeper effect besides your already dedicated sideboard cards for those functions)
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Quote from yriel »
    @Jori, The Splashy Puddle :
    I am on that since a lot of games :
    3 raging ravine
    2 treetop village
    4 blackcleave cliffs
    1 twilight mire
    2 swamp
    1 forest
    1 mountain
    1 ovegrown tomb
    1 blood crypt
    1 stomping ground
    4 verdant catacombs
    2 bloodstained mire
    1 wooded foothils

    I am not sure about the twilight mire and the mountain, they are just not bad for me up to now. I a happy to have 6 fetchs to find the forest since optimal lands are biland RB + forest. I never understand that second overgrown tomb, maybe i should play it instead of the twilight mire. 5 manlands seems ok too but not really sure at all.

    @Piney_Tinecones : i play 4leyline since some months, i didn't play play them in my 2 PPTQS because i knew there was only 5 or 10% of mardu, dredge, hollow one and dredgevine. Now i play the 4 leylines again, it's not bad but i disagree when you say the problem is "BBE don't find it" because BBE is a pretty bad cards in your starting hand (except against mardu). When i don't play it the leylines, i play 2 spellbomb, 1 cage and 1 anger of the gods instead. Hard to choice.


    I count only 16 black sources though, which I dont like, especiallt with mountain and 5 creaturelands whom all produce no black. Sire lategame its no problem, and ever good because of the creaturelands, but early game you might stumble vs decks like humans and spirits because you dont have enough black sources and a lot of taplands
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Quote from FlyingDelver »
    How many lands you want to run?

    The standard manabase is:



    If you want 25 lands, then add a treetop. If you want a mountain, exchange the second forest with it and exchange the second foothills with a 4th mire.

    With this manabase you have 18 black sources, 18 red sources and 17 green sources. This is definitely enough to cast anger and Lilis. Finks are possible but gets better when you add the 25th land in treetop. This covers everything you might want.


    I want 25 lands, with treetop and mountain, bu I currently dont own a 9th fetchland,and the tournement is this saturday, what should I replace it with? Blooming marsh?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on Jund
    Can someone help me with my manabase, Im playing with 4 bloodbraids and 3 Bobs and I would like to have 18 black sources, enough basics to fetch vs field of ruins/ path the exile and bloodmoon decks im expecting to face, and also enough creatureland to stand a better chance vs control decks.

    2 swamp
    1-2 forest
    0-1 mountain
    1 twilight mire
    0-1 blooming marsh
    4 blackcleave cliffs
    2 overgrown tomb
    1 bloodcrypt
    1 stomping ground
    2-3 raging ravines
    0-1 treetop
    4 verdant catacombs
    3 bloodstained mire
    1 wooded foothills
    Posted in: Midrange
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