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  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising- Lore and Story
    Quote from user_938036 »
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Quote from user_938036 »


    Dominaria. Zendikar. Maybe next we'll see Innistrad, Amonkhet, and Tarkir restored? -granted Nissa has never been to Tarkir.
    Innistard would require removing Emrakul and they just shouldn't ever touch that again. Amonkhet would be interesting as it would require working with the existing refuges and probably involve the resurrection of their gods. Tarkir isn't broken, Ugin never died so there is nothing wrong with it. That leaves only one good story thread to follow but they could also encounter countless broken new worlds so it could be explored as in-depth as they want. "Fixing" Alara would probably be way more interesting than any of those other ones as it is more about finding harmony with its new form as trying to return is impossible.


    I'm sorry no more eldrazi ever is physically impossible besides it will be a matter of time emrakul comes out of the moon
    I'm not against more eldrazi. I am against using any of their walkers as agents to interfere with Emrakul in the Moon. When they want to use that storyline again it should 100% be Emrakul decided it was time and left(or whatever it does). And we see people react to this, not have them instigate it.


    I agree. Emrakul and the Eldrazi as they were portrayed in Eldritch Moon was as true to form as MtG has ever been with Cosmic Horror. Emrakul (and the rest of the Eldrazi for that matter) fill some kind of role in the cosmic balance of things and it would be inappropriate to never return to that thread. A good plot hook might even be the Gatewatch releasing Emrakul and helping offset the imbalance caused by the loss of the dead titans once they realize that thier actions, while good for Zendikar, were catastrophic for the multiverse at large. The purpose that the Eldrazi titans fulfill ought also be fuzzy and incomplete to the heroes. Cosmic Horror requires that regardless of how necessary the Titans might be, their role must not be entirely comprehensible to mortal, even planewalker minds.

    Edit: Even the Gatewatch helping the Eldrazi might assign too much meaning and agency to the characters and their actions. Cosmic Horror is after all about powerlessness and insignificance. Ultimately it ought to be Emrakulto decide..Somehow...
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising- Lore and Story
    I want to reappraise the story and reconsider my critique. I don't know if my problem is the author's characterization of Nissa or if it is maybe just my problem with Nissa and the colour Green in general. Looking back on the matter, I cannot honestly name any author's depiction of Nissa that I actually like. Vivian Reid too for that matter, though I thought Wexler's depiction was the best so far.

    The green characters that I have enjoyed such as Yasova, Garruk, Jiang Yanggu, Kiora, and Huatli have all (with the exception of Yanggu) had a strong association with other colours along with Green so maybe I'm not the best judge of what a good Nissa arc does or does not entail.

    I think Nissa needs to be more than Zendikar and leylines. Now that Zendikar is as stable and healthy as its ever been in the last few thousand years, maybe Nissa could have it as her personal mission to backtrack to hurting planes she's previously visited and try to heal them? Aside from Ravnica there seems to be a very strong 'reconstructivist' theme happening or hinted to happen for many a familiar plane we've seen before.

    Dominaria. Zendikar. Maybe next we'll see Innistrad, Amonkhet, and Tarkir restored? -granted Nissa has never been to Tarkir.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising- Lore and Story
    Quote from 5colors »
    Last story for Zendikar 3:

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/episode-five-two-guardians-2020-09-30

    -Jace sealing was a bit of a coup out, though to repeat thing if we gotten more stories would have been a decent way to end a story on a cliff hanger while Nahiri and Nissa fought and freed once Nissa freed the core.

    -I do wanna see a proper finish to Sorin vs Nahiri.

    -Hey Nahiri how do you like not being able to move as a magic tech orb is taken from you? Not fun is it?

    -So it final Nissa is out of the gatewatch fully. While she might rejoin it seems Amonkhet, War of the Spark, the Chandra break up and Gideons death has killed the "blue" side of Nissa who was willing and wanting to learn more about other people and place.

    -Oh wait no Jace trying to take over her mind in the final straw.

    -The kor core (lol) being powered by a spark of Zendikars soul is very symbolic and I like. Might also explain how it was working, by sucking up more of the world soul which was what was leading to the blight and resulting "tame-ness".

    -I do like the black-side of Nissa being her believing in her self more. While I'm annoyed she keeps being used to fill in color balances Im for more positive black aspects shown.

    -So they do have a story reason why Zendikar is recovering so fast, as it looks like Nissa returning the piece of world soul renewed the whole plane to the point Bala Ged is regrowing.

    -Not sure I like the "lesson" here. While all this could have been solved by everyone listening to each other, no one made any effort to do so besides Nissa listening to the core.

    -That said I do like the themed of guilt we saw with the walkers and it ending with how broken people can still be redeemed.

    Overall: My biggest critique is I think we could have had another 3-5 stories to flesh thing out more. A lot of moments felt rushed and fasted paced when I think they could have been slown down. The writing itself was decent, not the best we seen, but I didn't dislike it and wouldn't mind if they had the author return. I do give a nod to Greenblatt able to not only novelize the trailer but make it work with her own themes and characters, something that you only can see in this kind of multimedia franchise.

    Character: Fine for the most part with Nahiri being the best written. I do like they push all into Nahiri being an old walker like of villain and I think the adding in of the Kor empire helped flesh her out and gives her a bit more to her past actions as being an old walker and a for from that time period instilling in her a "actions justify the means for (my version) of the greater good".


    Future (semi-boarderline) speculation
    Its been brought up but we might be getting a anti-gatewatch, each of the last few sets has left us with a walker with a grudge to a main character:

    Eldraine had Oko with a life debt to Rowan and on Garruks ***** list

    Theros had bot Calix hunting down Elspeth (and Ashiok going off to phyrexia but that feels more for that storyline)

    Ikoria had Vivien going to hunt Lukka to make sure he not up to anything bad and the unknow walker*

    and now Zendikar 3 with both Nahiri and Nissa not trusting Jace and Nahiri has a long tentacle-sized history of not handling grudges well.

    To me Nissa breaking away hasn't been too much of a shock. Ive been noticing she has been slowly phased out of the marketing and replaced with Vivien and Garruk taking up the green slot of stuff. From what we know of the gatewatch history Gideon, Jace, Chandra and Liliana where the most popular walkers in in mono color (who was alive) with Nissa being picked as at the time she was the only green walker and was related to the eldrazi storyline. And since then I don't think she had reached the popularity they liked for a face of the game outside of her and Chandra possibly getting together and now thats all a mess. Just like I'm guessing they picked to bring back Elspeth around Gideon dying to replace him as a face, I got the feeling Ikoria and Eldraine did a similar thing to Vivien (who now is acting more inline with the gatewatch by using her planeswalker-ness to help) and Garruk (now cured, has the twins ground his humanity and Liliana believed dead, no major conflict wit the gatewatch). I don't think thy gonna write off Issa but I think she gonna go back to being a supporting character who we see on Zendikar and/or if we get to another plane with a land theme. I also guessing Oko is the one who was messing around on Ikoira and I think he was on Ravnica for War of the Spark so that might end with a conflict with the gatewach and/or plus Vivien and Garruk.


    There's lot to agree with you up here ^^, especially the problem of pacing. In my perspective there wasn't enough to distinguish this 'MacGuffin' from the Eternal Sun which, while also part of a MacGuffin story, at least had a detailed narrative that was located both distally and proximate to the main webfiction.


    Yes this is a game about magic, and magic can do some impressive things in a story but I'm eerily reminded of the ending of the "Blue Sword" book which I disliked due the the hand-wavey way in which the plot's main crisis was solved by the heroine. There needs to be a greater emphasis on the cost, exceptionality and, most importantly, mechanics of the solution than was given.


    Why was this orb (gosh, its even an orb!) able to do what it did when it was made with an entirely different purpose in mind? Why was Nissa able to use it for this purpose and why was this trust in her gut sustainable and trustworthy as opposed to the instinct that made her release the Eldrazi in the first place? Don't tell me leylines. Show me how they work. The event would have also been a good spot to include Nissa's weird connection to Emrakul, more on Nissa's halted relationship with Chandra and the rest of the Gatewatch.


    Why did the memory of Gideon push her towards black as opposed to white and did the author do enough to present this as her interpretation of what Gideon would do? White and Green are usually Black's antagonist colours so why did her understanding of Gideon present itself in the way that it did?


    There were some good parts: Like many, I like how Nahiri was written and interpreted though I remain confused as to why there wasn't greater antagonism between her and the Gatewatch for what she did to Innistrad. The mistakes of Jace and Nissa on Zendikar are not equivalent to the red on Nahiri's ledger. Unlike they she knew exactly what she was doing, and the outcome more or less matched her intent. Nahiri is a tragic figure and I'm glad it set her up as a potential antagonist of the 'Watch.


    Is Nissa even still in the Gatewatch anymore? The story kind of leaves this hanging and while the new tension between her and Jace is good for character developement it is interesting that Nissa had already just rejoined the group. After all the two had accomplished together, the pacing does not demonstrate enough real conflict between the two to seriously endanger their relationship.


    What is the message of the story? Listen? To what? There was no indication that the orb wasn't in fact a manipulative, inherently evil thing that would have given Nissa the exact opposite outcome than she sought for. What did Nissa really learn here and is it sufficiently appraised by the author? Sure she learns to trust herself again but what are the constraints and details of this newfound epiphany?


    Eh that came out more critically than I wanted but I'm finding it hard to celebrate the return to webfiction here. It's as if Marketing told Creative what they wanted to have happen to the world and make up a reason for why that happened and while this isn't necessarily a bad thing or a system that inherently produces poor story-telling, the why still has to make sufficient sense in the minds of the audience for the suspension of disbelief.


    Edit:
    Imagine for second that instead of the Lithoform Core, the MacGuffin Nissa and the others were fight over was the 'One Ring' from LotR? By what argument could Nissa trust this power to heal rather than harm Zendikar? Yes, Nissa 'felt' the object as being a part of Zendikar as opposed to the eldrazi but feelings do not inherently lead one to construct the best possible policy for a problem.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    Monstrous is all I'll say on the matter.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on The sets of 2021
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    According to Ultra Pro Kaldheim will release with 2 Commander Decks and 4 planeswalkers will be in the set https://www.ultrapro.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=deck box 100 pro jan21&search_in_description=1&x=0&y=0



    ???

    I thought walker decks are dead except in core sets and replaced by the commander decks

    You got it wrong those 4 are deckboxes with art from Planeswalkers that are in the Kaldheim set not Planeswalker decks, the other 2 are Commander Decks tied with Kaldheim much like the 2 Commander Decks that are releasing with Zendikar Rising

    "Jan21 PRO 100+ Deck Box featuring Planeswalker Art 2 for Magic: The Gathering"
    Features Planeswalker Card Art from Magic: the Gathering set releasing Jan 2021



    oh whoops read it wrong


    4 planeswalkers are in the set not decks

    One will be Ramaz mark my words he’s how the eldrazi rised in the first place


    That's exciting. Ramaz, Chandra, Kenriths, Garruk
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising- Lore and Story
    While the dialogue was confusing at times, I felt this story was much better than the one previous and it's clear to me that the author has some knowledge of rock climbing, line casting etc. Too bad these two characters are all gonna die...

    I don't know if I could live in Zendikar. While I do like planes with a lot of natural landscapes like it has, civilization on Zendikar always seems just a few steps away from annihilation. Much like Ikoria.

    I mean, who does the books or sows the grain?

    Farming on Zendikar sounds like precarious occupation.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising- Lore and Story
    honestly, I couldn't vouch for this story. Nissa and Jace seemed kinda off to me. For example, Nissa and Jace had a good relationship at the conclusion of Forsaken and the funeral for Gids. Why would she be afraid he'd suddenly feel differently? Also, wasn't Jace heading to Vryn?

    I just feel like there's no point investing in the story anymore if we can't be confident that past arcs, visuals and lore are in fact canon.

    I'd love for Forsaken to no longer be canon but the company needs to say as much and take accountability when there's incongruency. While I'm glad we are getting free, serialized fiction, I'd rather pay a little more for a well-written product than be satisfied with returning to the problems seen in previous free web fiction arcs.

    That's not to say it was all bad. The author writes action scenes well enough and the characterization of Nahiri felt right. Some of the tension between Nahiri and Nissa could have been played with more and given greater developement. Nissa *more fully released the Eldrazi upon her homeplane by accident. But Nahiri? Nahiri intentionally condemned an entire plane (Innistrad) to death and madness as vengeance for Sorin's (admittedly) very real mistakes. Nissa and Jace saw this firsthand. Why would they even consider working with such a being and if they did, well, that's an interesting decision to arrive at that deserves its own frame. Throwing Nahiri and Nissa together as quickly as they did sidelines a lot of potentially fascinating developement.

    I too rolled my eyes at the hints regarding Chandra. Was it a relationship or not? WotC likes to seem progressive when it suits them. But as soon as they figure it's gonna harm their marketing strategy... (sarcasm) Heaven forbid our Gatewatch leads being queer!
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on [ZNR] Tajuru Snarecaster + more - Arin from Game Grumps/Egoraptor previews
    Quote from mikeyG »
    I remain confused as to what makes the elf wizard a wizard and not a druid or a shaman.


    Nothing but set's needs. They were going to include Druids as the fifth party class, but it just didn't work.
    Quote from soramaro »
    I remain confused as to what makes the elf wizard a wizard and not a druid or a shaman.
    The fact that the party mechanic exists in Zendikar Rising.

    Although coming up with some sort of excuse should be easy enough…


    That...both makes sense and no sense at the same time.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on The sets of 2021
    Strixhaven - I wonder which plane this is on? Definitely gives me Harry Potter vibes. Evidently it's the name of the school, not the entire world. This could be promising.


    I wonder if strixhaven is on a known plane (Vrynn? Kephalai? Kinshala? Mercadia?) or a brand new plane.

    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Got another prediction the Harry Potter world being either a resurrection of shard color set (alara lost the shard factor)

    ... why? Nothing about "magic school" makes me think about tricolor or Alara. Having a naya and a jund faction on a school would be very awkward imo.


    My guess? or hope? Regatha or Shandalar.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ZNR] Nissa and another Party — Weekly MTG previews
    Nissa is returning to her roots? She musta taken that break up pretty hard.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ZNR] Tajuru Snarecaster + more - Arin from Game Grumps/Egoraptor previews
    I remain confused as to what makes the elf wizard a wizard and not a druid or a shaman.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on The sets of 2021
    Quote from Flisch »
    The DnD set is a big turn off for me. The reason I like MtG is because of, well, MtG, creative included. Depending on the execution, the DnD set may be the very first set I'll actively skip.

    This is exactly the reason why I hated the Godzilla crossovers, but I thought I was just paranoid, that there was no slippery slope going on, but here we are.


    Right?!?!

    One of the longtime rules of a fictional universe is that its constituent parts have a degree consistency to them. Of course things can evolve and the tropes that other products explore be incorporated as well, but at least try to keep it sufficiently at arms length!
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on The sets of 2021
    I...have mixed feelings.

    Strixhaven is such a blunt reference to Harry potter that I feel an immediate sneer crawl up face whenever I think about it. The set symbol is a bloody owl for Pete's sake!


    I mean... it was not Harry Potter who invented the associations between wizards and owls, or between schools and owls.


    Correct, but the three of them together...
    It just has a weird feeling to it.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on The sets of 2021
    I...have mixed feelings.

    Strixhaven is such a blunt reference to Harry potter that I feel an immediate sneer crawl up face whenever I think about it. The set symbol is a bloody owl for Pete's sake!

    The D&D set will be interesting but only with the caveat that the creatives behind these two franchise never be crossed. The narrative of D&D just doesn't jive with MtG lore.

    I'm cool with spending another two sets on Innistrad but I wish the franchise had merely announced the setting and the length of our stay there than give placeholder titles. Even if they just described the sets and gave the symbols without titling them "werewolves" and "vampires" would feel less comical in my opinion. It's too on the nose. Too prepackaged, "this is what you want, so here!" for my taste. It disrupts the suspension of disbelief and turns what should be sophisticated, well-planned product into...well, caricatures.

    I'm probably being too harsh, but that's honestly what I'm feeling right now. I'll obviously reserve full judgement for later. Kaldheim sounds interesting though and like many here, I hope to see Ramaz. It's weird we caught no hint of him during the main "Handlebar" arc.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising- Lore and Story
    Yeah, it's looking like the theory I proposed regarding the Ancients is quite wrong but I'm ok with that. I'm just glad we are getting serialized fiction again, and Norse set in the future.

    Should we set up a new thread to talk about the announcement stream in general?

    Edit: I just gotta say it, there's been a little too much course correction in the lore I think in terms of representing a vibrant, recovered Zendikar. I know the MtG franchise has 'magic' to handwave the story to be what they want it to be but in my opinion there is not enough shade for the plot lamp they are lighting here.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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