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  • posted a message on What should Kaldheim bring to the table?
    Possible creature types:

    Humans. Dwarves. Elves. Spirits. Gods. Giants. Angels. Elk (but srsly). Trolls? Kraken? Serpents. Dragons. Squirrels. Bears. Werewolves? Elementals. Nightmares? Yeti. Whales. Fish. Faeries?

    Barbarians. Shamans. Warriors. Berserkers? Archers. Scouts. Wizards. Clerics. Knights? Peasants. Nobles. Warlocks? Clerics. Druid? Rogues.

    Amphin. (okay, only in my dreams)
    Posted in: Speculation
  • posted a message on Kaldheim packaging
    Quote from Xeruh »
    I’m... kind of confused how Kaya is a “capitalist”, if anything my reading of her is she’s driven by much more personal stakes than how much money she can get. If that was all she wanted she would just accept being the leader of the Orzhov and not really care about keeping the ghosts as slaves.


    I hear ya, the reason why I consider her capitalist is from her bio on the mothership:

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/story/planeswalkers/kaya-ghost-assassin

    "Kaya is a firm believer that life is for the living. The living should make the most of their lives and pursue what they want while they've still got time, and find their own peace before death. If you die with unfinished business, well, that's probably your fault. And if it's not...perhaps she could help you...for a price."


    You're not wrong in saying that she's driven by personal stakes, but I think we might have different interpretations of what it means to be a capitalist. In most of her work, she is (for the most part) very contractional, expecting a high fee for services that, while not as commonly demanded as other more mundane forms of labour, is nevertheless highly sought after by those with 'spiritual' problems *chuckle*. Capitalists do not necessarily have the accumulation of greater and greater wealth as their primary objective, but rather capitalists accept and advocate the utility of market-based systems and principles to distribute both wealth and capital.

    There are of course many different forms of capitalism and different kinds of capitalists. Like the terms "socialist" and "socialism", there exists a considerable amount of scholarly debate over how best to define and categorize all the different strands within, between and beyond these influential meta-ideas, and the infighting among these scholarly communities are often fiercer within an 'ism' than between 'isms'.

    Everything I've read on Kaya suggests to me that she is nominally a capitalist, but you can see in these same works the tensions the character feels when she sees systems such as that of the Orzhov syndicate take what seems to be a few good ideas in principle, but bend and twist them into something quite terrible, terrible for individuals and terrible for the political system at large. All of which demonstrates the tension between Black and White and within BW characters.

    I could be off my rocker here and I completely understand if folx aren't convinced. I'm a Poli Sci grad student and I sometimes get carried away. I could talk with my Uni mates for hours on the subject.

    The world is grey and there are costs and benefits within any 'ism' or its variants.

    Edit: adding a link to Kaya's wiki page just for fun and so that her critics may better come to appreciate the depth to her character.

    https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Kaya

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on KHM- Kaldheim story and flavor
    Quote from Mullerornis »
    Here's the Theros story: There is a vaguely warm world that you won't get to see, because Planeswalkers arrive to overshadow all its characters, including its gods, so it ends up being a snowy backdrop for how Elspeth is a better mage than any others, because she has a Spark. You know, that thing that confers no inherent advantage other than to travel, but here she is, breaking the metaphysical rules again, because Planeswalkers. After you're convinced she matters more than Theros, we'll be on to Tarkir/Ikoria.
    It won't be a snowy backdrop if it's a warm world. Glad you got the gist of it though.


    Which is what exactly?
    I could be wrong but I don't think @Mullerornis's response was given in support of your overall argument.

    Why the negativity mate? You have a new Thassa, another Jace, Arixmethes, several new sea monsters, some of whom are legendary.

    Why not celebrate Kaya?
    Oh I love the game, many amazing cards in the last few years, this year included - it's the lore I think is in serious need of attention, with the first promising step being the return of weekly story articles written by the in-house creative team. I think the community in general is still reeling from Nic Kelman, War of the Spark, the idea that original Ravnica characters were killed off or displaced in favor of Planeswalkers (and the grave overall errors that entire series introduced to the lore) and Kaya breaking fundamental planeswalking rules just to shove Rat into the story (I don't find Jiang and his dog to be a break, for the record - but Kaya, I didn't like). My issue is a Vorthos lore concern, not one with the game itself. Theros Beyond Death, the new Jace card, Arixmethes and Sea monsters are all the reason I love this game (don't forget Brinelin) but those are the cards, I think a lot of people in the Kaldheim Rumor Mill thread are showing apprehension about Kaya showing up just to kill off some newly introduced character on our first visit to this plane, which is lame if true, because I personally find Legends to be part of a plane's identity, and I am not fond of them dying in place of Planeswalkers all the time, like Avacyn for example. They shouldn't be killed just to make a PW look like a badass. That said I am glad they left Heliod. Killing him would have ruined Theros. His meddling and the tension he brings is amusing.


    Characters need to be able to die. I only regret that War of the Spark didn't kill more known characters. High stakes in storytelling is important, where death, sacrifice and loss means something.

    Kaya is a ghost assassin. That's her schtick. If she killed off characters that were known and beloved the critics would then express umbrage over that.

    As strange of a concept as it may seem, other people have their own things that they love about the game.

    It was a treat during our return to Theros to read every Tiro rush of excitement for the things that everyone knows Tiro loves.

    We're not asking for much. Just a little reciprocity would be nice.

    It's perfectly ok to critique story-telling in a measured, but authentic way; examining what one liked and didn't like so much in a forum of discussion and debate.

    But we literally have next to zero info regarding Kaldheim's story, so we really don't know how much of Forsaken's mishaps will still hold true, and regardless, none of these concerns were adequately expressed in the previous tirade on this particular thread.

    It just read as a de-legitimation of Kaya.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Kaldheim packaging
    We also have nor idea as to how WotC intends to use the negative feedback from the War of the Spark novels.

    We have one book where Kaya demonstrates this possession power, and to be fair, I don't think the fact that Kaya has this ability is really the issue. The issue was that WotC was beginning to introduce more exceptions to planeswalker 'rules' than cases that adhered to them, and Kaya's ability appeared to have been a simple plot device to allow the author to transport a character he liked (Rat) to another plane.

    We have no idea how cannon WotC will treat Forsaken.

    Quote from 5colors »
    Ya, Nazi loves Norse stuff and have been trying to "adopt it" like they did the swastika. Met a gal in college who was a Norse Pagan and she had some pretty cool metallic/bismith Norse rune tattoo that she was really considering get rid of since she had been getting accused of being a Nazi and she was afraid of them being deemed a hate symbol soon.

    Quote from Xeruh »
    Er... I have never heard anyone really utter praise for the Obzedat. Tesya? Sure. Ancient ghost bankers? Not so much. That people suddenly seem to care because she killed them reseda honestly suspicious.


    That been my though for a while. Last I check most people were loving the idea of Teysa getting rid of them...which she did.


    I've been an Orzhov player and fan for as long as I've been an active MtG player and I have shed zero metaphorical tears at the Obzedat's true death.
    (I remember trying to play Dimir as a kid and while I innately understood the power of BlackB, the colour Blue U was far too tricksy for me)

    What's frustrating as an Orzhov player and fan is that WB rarely gets to have likeable characters and factions. Sure, Sorin is much beloved, but besides him we are left mostly with characters that pursue B goals with W means.

    Kaya is refreshing because she's not only a self-interested, capitalist anti-hero, but also a self-interested, capitalist anti-hero who does in fact occasionally act on behalf of some greater sense of justice or good.

    If you were to compare how Kaya has been written with that of her targets, Kaya is a more complex and likable character by far. I admit that this is just my subjective opinion, but like, what narrational role did the Obzedat or Brago really serve?

    While I don't wish for the Orzhov guild to realistically collapse should all its debtors be immediately and wholly forgiven, a reformed Orzhov Guild is everything I could have wanted for my guild.

    Settings and characters have to change. While I understand that people may be upset when their particular favorite characters and worlds are no longer what they had imagined them to formerly be, still, without setting changes and character growth, all we'd be left with is the 'same old, same old'.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on KHM- Kaldheim story and flavor
    Quote from Mullerornis »
    Here's the Theros story: There is a vaguely warm world that you won't get to see, because Planeswalkers arrive to overshadow all its characters, including its gods, so it ends up being a snowy backdrop for how Elspeth is a better mage than any others, because she has a Spark. You know, that thing that confers no inherent advantage other than to travel, but here she is, breaking the metaphysical rules again, because Planeswalkers. After you're convinced she matters more than Theros, we'll be on to Tarkir/Ikoria.
    It won't be a snowy backdrop if it's a warm world. Glad you got the gist of it though.


    Which is what exactly?
    I could be wrong but I don't think @Mullerornis's response was given in support of your overall argument.

    Why the negativity mate? You have a new Thassa, another Jace, Arixmethes, several new sea monsters, some of whom are legendary.

    Why not celebrate Kaya?
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Kaldheim packaging
    Quote from 5colors »
    Quote from Xeruh »
    Yeah, can’t relate to the people complaining. Kaya barely has shown up to get fleshed out. Here maybe she will have a chance where it isn’t really just her being used by other people hopefully. It honestly just reads like a no win situation as you can’t flesh out a character without giving them some spotlight, but you’re going to complain about them getting some spotlight to do what you say needs to happen.


    Almost as if its not Kaya character people don't like about her.


    ^^^^ That is a reasonable suspicion.
    I'd also like to point out how strategic and normatively sound it was of WotC to make Kaya the face of the 'vikings' set.

    Both ancient Norse fandom generally, and Asatru as a religious and spiritual movement more specifically, have become more and more closely associated with white supremacist movements.

    Kaya as Kaldeim's face planeswalker and lead protagonist is brilliant: Not only does her anti-undead power-suit and philosophy work well with ancient Norse beliefs and themes re: the afterlife (honourable death, Valhalla, separation between realms)-

    -but also, as a well-written character who is also a Women of Colour, Kaya as Kaldeim's face planeswalker also signals greater commitment on WotC's part at combatting racial discrimination and tropes.

    For the record, I'm not at all arguing that WotC's choice of Kaya as Kaldheim's face planeswalker was solely informed by her status as a Women of Colour. As mentioned by myself and many others, Kaya's particular interest in maintaining stability in a plane's afterlife process works well in a set that may have as a main plotpoint, the cosmological discontinuity of life and death. Maybe people are no longer being shepherded to their rightful afterlives by the Valkyrie and other divine servitors? Maybe someone who was supposed to die escaped their fate?

    WotC would of course have to be careful at sufficiently differentiating such plot from Theros: Beyond Death but I am confident in thier ability to do so.

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Kaldheim packaging
    Quote from 5colors »
    Just a quick question, did anyone else read the Gathering Storm the story where she actually killed the Obzedat?


    I read it, and it's partially why I'm such a Kaya fan. She was a very fun PoV character in the books, and this is from a guy who expected to have more in common with Ral Zarek.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on KHM- Kaldheim story and flavor
    I'm soo excited to see my girl
    Kaya
    again!



    #OrzhovPrideWDancing BananaB
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Kaldheim packaging
    Although I wasn't keen on her forgiving too many of our guild's debtors, still, I'm excited to see my new Guildlord kick some spiritual-<censored>!

    I love her new armor and I think making her the face of the set is a neat idea. Maybe the dead aren't heading to Kaldheim's version of Valhalla like they ought?

    I hope we also get to see Chandra, Ramaz and a new 'walker as well!

    Edit: I for one like planesalkers and planeswalker characters being strongly enmeshed in the story. MtG's story requires cohesion as there really isn't anything tying these worlds together besides the multiverse. planeswalkers and The Five main fonts of mana themselves.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    Quote from 5colors »
    Quote from Cranky »
    Quote from Mystic_X »

    Want my advice?


    No, not really.

    I'm a Vorthos player. I play the game but I consume mostly because I enjoy exploring the themes, characters and setting. The lack of these being just "skins" and the fact that they are not silver-border, and therefore optional, bothers me greatly. These factors, as well as the FOMO, limited distribution, and response to the problem by WotC is all just too much. I've been slowly buying less MtG in recent years and the release of this product will only make my consumption even less limited.

    Fellow EDH players beware: if you play with these cards I will consider it my personal mission to knock you out *of the game, even if I have to go down in flames along with you. There shall be no Quarto.


    "This product doesn't appeal to me, therefore I will bully anyone who enjoys it."

    Thanks for succinctly summing up your side's entire argument.


    It's a game after all. What's the matter? Afraid the new deck you plan to build with these cards is gonna become absolutely worthless?

    You should be.


    Being a bully player will ruin and kill the game faster and more effectively than any crossover set or banning.


    Fair point. Let's just say that I save it for special occasions. and people.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    The best thing about this whole dumpster fire is that the more WotC tries to deny that there's a problem, the more public the problem gets.

    Heck, it might even be the case that I won't have to even dedicate too many resources punking the players that use these in multiplayer formats. Once the cards are played it will be suddenly become an in-house race between players to see who can eliminate the offending creature and/or defeat the player using them first!

    Smile Its Secret Lair: Whack-a-Mole!! Smile
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    Quote from Mystic_X »
    Quote from Mystic_X »

    Want my advice?


    No, not really.

    I'm a Vorthos player. I play the game but I consume mostly because I enjoy exploring the themes, characters and setting. The lack of these being just "skins" and the fact that they are not silver-border, and therefore optional, bothers me greatly. These factors, as well as the FOMO, limited distribution, and response to the problem by WotC is all just too much. I've been slowly buying less MtG in recent years and the release of this product will only make my consumption even less limited.

    Fellow EDH players beware: if you play with these cards I will consider it my personal mission to knock you out *of the game, even if I have to go down in flames along with you. There shall be no Quarto.


    Cool! So your player archetype is sort of like a suicidal Chandra being spitroasted by Tibalt and Mogis? In that meta, red deck wins all the time!


    A few select counterspells and other hosers will do. My subjective win only requires that those that play with these cards lose.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    Quote from Cranky »
    Quote from Mystic_X »

    Want my advice?


    No, not really.

    I'm a Vorthos player. I play the game but I consume mostly because I enjoy exploring the themes, characters and setting. The lack of these being just "skins" and the fact that they are not silver-border, and therefore optional, bothers me greatly. These factors, as well as the FOMO, limited distribution, and response to the problem by WotC is all just too much. I've been slowly buying less MtG in recent years and the release of this product will only make my consumption even less limited.

    Fellow EDH players beware: if you play with these cards I will consider it my personal mission to knock you out *of the game, even if I have to go down in flames along with you. There shall be no Quarto.


    "This product doesn't appeal to me, therefore I will bully anyone who enjoys it."

    Thanks for succinctly summing up your side's entire argument.


    It's a game after all. What's the matter? Afraid the new deck you plan to build with these cards is gonna become absolutely worthless?

    You should be.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    Quote from Mystic_X »

    Want my advice?


    No, not really.

    I'm a Vorthos player. I play the game but I consume mostly because I enjoy exploring the themes, characters and setting. The lack of these being just "skins" and the fact that they are not silver-border, and therefore optional, bothers me greatly. These factors, as well as the FOMO, limited distribution, and response to the problem by WotC is all just too much. I've been slowly buying less MtG in recent years and the release of this product will only make my consumption even less limited.

    Fellow EDH players beware: if you play with these cards I will consider it my personal mission to knock you out *of the game, even if I have to go down in flames along with you. There shall be no Quarto.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair: The Walking Dead; New lowpoint for Vorthos community?
    Any thoughts on the latest Secret Lair controversy and it means for the Vorthos Community and MtG IP?
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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