Quote from 5colors »Quote from Superplatt »Based upon the art for the command cards it appears For the tribes we have:
Humans
Elves
Dwarves
Orcs
Loxodon
Aven
Trolls
Elementals/dryad
And possibly:
Vampires
Kor
I might be missing some but that seems like a pretty diverse plane.
I think maybe there was some interplanar travel prior to the mending perhaps.
Merfolk, Azra and maybe the Orcs are ogres (Obeka looks similar to one figure).
Just found the concept art from Bryan Sola for Silverquill Command, here.
The comments on the arts says (Human, Kor, Vampire, Orc) und the second version there seem to be an Owl, too. I am not sure where the Orc is, tho.
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Not sure tbh. I admit that I'm kinda hoping the gods aren't merely mono-colour as we have plenty of mono-coloured gods as it is.
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Yeah, she's a lot more approachable in the Ikoria novel.
@Ilovesaprolings, I know for certain that you've been consistently proactive in the past at standing up against not only racism on this here site, but also sexism and LGBTQ2S+phobia, so TBH, I'm not really all that suspicious of your own criticisms of Kaya as I am suspicious of the critiques given by a few of the other users on here. That is of course not to say that such would be impossible, and I certainly ain't perfect in these kinda things either.
What I do know is that some of the critics and post-'likers' on our thread do indeed have a pattern of attacking WotC' efforts in making the game more inclusive, either in terms of gender, race, ethnicity, culture, sexuality or, in the case of some users, all of the above and/or more.
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Feel free to contend an argument authentically Tiro, but please do so through reason, and by carefully weighing not only the 'bad', but also the 'good'.
There is so much that is good re: Kaya, and even more good to look forward to in Kaldheim.
No one is forcing you to change your mind, but should you go on another hateful attack as you previously did swinging into this thread, you will likely be reported for flaming.
I trust that you are familiar with that process.
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But again there was no criticisms even of planeswalkers as a whole in the aforementioned Zendikar Rising preview thread, nor have you properly addressed the aforementioned different lenses of framing for your specific so-called "criticisms".
Again, nice try. If anyone wants to check out more of this double standard, feel free to check out the Kaldheim Storyline thread in the "Magic Storyline" forum. It's 11:00 and I'm off to bed.
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Believe what you wish.
How you initially responded to the presence of your golden-boy in Zendikar Rising and so called "criticized" him vs. how you reacted to Kaya and dug in your heels re: her, are non-equivalent, nor are they even the same argument. As I recall, you even used the term 'Mary Sue' to describe the issues you had with Kaya. Nevermind the fact that your only complaints regarding Jace were wanting to see his "handsome face" and that maybe his role should have given to another different planeswalker that you also liked.
Examine how you expressed Jace in glowing terms even when you thought there was a 'problem' vs. how addressed your 'problem' with Kaya.
Yet the problem isn't unique to Tiro. Hell the first post on this thread had to be moderated for using racist language for crying-out loud! The issue isn't that people have criticisms about Kaya or planesalkers, but that people seem to indeed have double standards that are detrimental to women and People of Colour.
We as a MtG community have to change.
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Two indeed can play but I wish for all to examine the evidence. Did Tiro's initial reaction to seeing Jace in the packaging reflect a frustration that planeswalkers were too prominent in the game and overshadowing planebound creatures?
Jace or Kiora, it doesn't matter. You have one standard for the kinds of planeswalkers that you like and that you enjoy seeing in the game, and an altogether different standard for those planeswalkers that you don't care about.
One doesn't have to be an intentional and raging misogynist or racist to enable, or normalize, either systemic racism or sexism.
Intent doesn't matter, but having two clearly different standards or expectations for the kinds of characters that one likes, or doesn't like does actually matter quite a bit.
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalist
I was making the argument that she's a capitalist under definition two (2), rather than one (1)
capitalist noun
Definition of capitalist (Entry 1 of 2)
1: a person who has capital especially invested in business
industrial capitalists
broadly : a person of wealth : PLUTOCRAT
Charitable organizations often seek help from capitalists.
2: a person who favors capitalism
Motivations matter less than what kind of system the political actor is in support of and advocates. You are correct in that Capitialism is not exclusive in its emphasis upon transactions, yet the way that Kaya frames these contractual relationships in the flavor texts, story narratives and other texts suggests to me at least that she would indeed qualify as a capitalist.
Furthermore, capitalists do not advocate that a supplier of a good or service would or should charge a price that the buyer *cannot afford if such a supplier was truly mindful of their own self-interest. By definition, if a buyer purchases the good or service from the supplier than the price was fair, as the buyer would not purchase said good or service at a cost higher than the alternative options available or even the cost of maintaining the status quo.
The concept of fair trade is not incongruent with Capitalists nor Capitalism.
In short, I think we have different understandings of what it means to be a capitalist. All your other points, particularly those regarding this forum's unfair critique against Kaya is however spot on in my opinion.
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Funny. I don't recall you bringing up these concerns on the thread showing the Zendikar Rising packaging that featured Jace, even though the boy's prominence over and beyond plane-bound characters is just as explicate, perhaps even more-so, than Kaya's prominence over the same.
*checks old thread*
Nope. Not a single angry tentacle.
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Characters need to be able to die. I only regret that War of the Spark didn't kill more known characters. High stakes in storytelling is important, where death, sacrifice and loss means something.
Kaya is a ghost assassin. That's her schtick. If she killed off characters that were known and beloved the critics would then express umbrage over that.
As strange of a concept as it may seem, other people have their own things that they love about the game.
It was a treat during our return to Theros to read every Tiro rush of excitement for the things that everyone knows Tiro loves.
We're not asking for much. Just a little reciprocity would be nice.
It's perfectly ok to critique story-telling in a measured, but authentic way; examining what one liked and didn't like so much in a forum of discussion and debate.
But we literally have next to zero info regarding Kaldheim's story, so we really don't know how much of Forsaken's mishaps will still hold true, and regardless, none of these concerns were adequately expressed in the previous tirade on this particular thread.
It just read as a de-legitimation of Kaya.
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We have one book where Kaya demonstrates this possession power, and to be fair, I don't think the fact that Kaya has this ability is really the issue. The issue was that WotC was beginning to introduce more exceptions to planeswalker 'rules' than cases that adhered to them, and Kaya's ability appeared to have been a simple plot device to allow the author to transport a character he liked (Rat) to another plane.
We have no idea how cannon WotC will treat Forsaken.
I've been an Orzhov player and fan for as long as I've been an active MtG player and I have shed zero metaphorical tears at the Obzedat's true death.
(I remember trying to play Dimir as a kid and while I innately understood the power of BlackB, the colour Blue U was far too tricksy for me)
What's frustrating as an Orzhov player and fan is that WB rarely gets to have likeable characters and factions. Sure, Sorin is much beloved, but besides him we are left mostly with characters that pursue B goals with W means.
Kaya is refreshing because she's not only a self-interested, capitalist anti-hero, but also a self-interested, capitalist anti-hero who does in fact occasionally act on behalf of some greater sense of justice or good.
If you were to compare how Kaya has been written with that of her targets, Kaya is a more complex and likable character by far. I admit that this is just my subjective opinion, but like, what narrational role did the Obzedat or Brago really serve?
While I don't wish for the Orzhov guild to realistically collapse should all its debtors be immediately and wholly forgiven, a reformed Orzhov Guild is everything I could have wanted for my guild.
Settings and characters have to change. While I understand that people may be upset when their particular favorite characters and worlds are no longer what they had imagined them to formerly be, still, without setting changes and character growth, all we'd be left with is the 'same old, same old'.