MTG Salvation

And what if the grand plan they have doesnt "fit in". What if what the outsourced authors did not have the larger story in mind when they wrote the details? You have no right to assume that just because we disagree, that we somehow care less about the story. That is a divisive, underhanded tactic that intends to belittle or label those you disagree with, a poor way to argue. For what it's worth, I think you care and love MTG a lot. I think what you could work on harder is loving and respecting the interest that others have for the game even if their opinions differ than yours. Tantrums and name calling will not get your argument anywhere.

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Quote from PlayerKent »

Quote from Gutterstorm »

I'm aware that there is no end of all of the stories in sight but you could at least wait to see the results of the changes they're making before you call the changes bad.

You've just gotten into the game and have gone and read all the old novels? That's great but some people don't have the resources or the time to do so. That doesn't mean I'm not invested it just means my life is different from yours. If you want to be degrading and say I don't care as much as you because of that then so be it but it's awfully small-minded.

And "stop complaining" is a fine way to put it because, as I said above, you don't know what they are planning. If you complained to get merfolk back or to get a trans character so what? That just means that you want them to tell the story you want instead of letting them tell the story they want to tell. If they want to tell a story about a trans person great but they shouldn't be pressured into doing so because it just further sets that group aside as something special that needs to be accounted for and thought about instead of them being just another person which is all they are. They're telling the story they want to tell. If you want to tell the story you want to tell then go do so. However complaining about something like this without even knowing why they're doing it is just pointless and foolhardy.

There's basically no way to say this without offending you, but doesn't the fact that he searched out and read all of the books in a short period of time suggests that he might actually care more than you about the story? I really don't want to make you angry, it just seems like that's a pretty good example of someone who cares more than most about the story of Magic.

This is silly. How do you quantify "caring about the story"? Do you know Gutterstorm so well as to know that he is not doing other things that might symbolize similar devotion? Suppose he/she is an avid Fanfic creator spending endless hrs in the night creating spin-offs of the stories? Perhaps he/she names all of thier children after MAGIC characters (Which would be weird but is besides the point)? The point is, is that no-one really knows anybody enough to make such statements such as who cares most about the story and such talk will only lead to a pharisaic argument about who's devotion to a cardgame story-line is greater. It is pointless. We are all alike in the eyes of mtgsalvation, unless your a moderator.

I think perhaps it's not so much that I'm upset about people offering criticism, it's just that criticism needs to be tempered with inner dialogue as to why maybe the company is making the changes the way they are. It is perfectly understandable that people dislike change as it can disrupt the foundation about what one knows about a story. However, patient, constructive criticism tries to see the good with the bad and that is kind of feedback that Wizards I think will respond most positively to. No-one is denying anyone's rights to speech here but we're asking everyone to calm down and consider the broader view. Also there should be no *labeling* people as somehow lesser vorthoses or casuals just because one does not attempt to try to read *every# piece of Magic fiction. I'm sure that's not what all the critics are implying, and I understand now PlayerKent that this is not what you meant. However, I feel there are some players here who may feel unjustifiably superior to other vorthoses due to being involved in the game longer. Your opinions matter. So do ours. So lets just bring everything down a notch. It is understandable that these changes are alarming but lets everyone be a little more considerate of the opposing view, newloredefenders like myself included.

I agree. I wanna go to Fiora again ASAP. But I don't mind mind Kaladesh. As for the retcons, I kinda expected them. The Creative team understand where They want to go with the story, but there were problematic details that had been established that didn't quite fit. I wouldn't worry too much as it seems like there is big shift to consolidate all the stories into one meaningful whole. If this one last sweep of retcons ensures everything following origins remain canonically true to each other then so be it. That's my opinion anyway.

I know a lot of peeps are whining b/c of more Theros but to be honest, Theros is the plane I've fallen most in love with. I'm glad tht as Theros block rotates out its presence will continue to be felt even if it is only a little bit, 1/10th of a large set's setting.

Quote from VYAzelas »

Quote from SimicNuggets »

Oh, VYAzelas, you're obsessed. That explains the..... ire.

Anyway, speaking objectively, I thought both characterizations were done well. So many references to Thassa's temper tantrums throughout the block. It was good to finally see her act on it. Still failed though. If we return to Theros, I wonder what the Tritons will think about a mortal humiliating a god like that.
No clue what Kiora could do with the bident, but it's pretty powerful on it's own as it is.

I am very anti-Kiora, yes.

The problem I have is that almost all the stories depict Thassa getting angry when the Planeswalker guide say otherwise. She might as well be red because I haven't seen a more short-tempered blue character since Tezzeret. What makes this worse is that their summary of Godsend has the wrong character helping the protagonists. Creative's quality control is severely lacking.

VYAzelas and SimicNuggets can we NOT have a cosplay reenactment of Thassa's and Kiora's duel, cuz don't you think one is enough for today?
I'm unsure if the internet is sufficiently prepared for another all-out brawl between Planeswalker and Theran-god.....and My computer doesn't care for saltwater!

I hope Wizards is listening in on this Conversation:
We FULLY expect to see Kiora with Thassa's Bident in the next iteration we see her in!
Great story, I'm actually thinking that if nothing else maybe her sea behemoths will be able to deal with the Eldrazi spawn, leaving the rest of them to deal with the Titans themselves.

With all due respect this thread is in baseless speculation for a reason. I fully admit it could mean nothing, however I would remind you that a clever individual discovered the rough approximation of the DTK through similar methods.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/speculation/568674-dragons-of-tarkir-set-symbol

Y'know maybe Lili visited Ulgrotha, as her art features a Gothic looking castle. The fortress could easily belong in Innistrad too but for some reason I like the idea of visiting the Dark Barony and see what the Sengirs are up to. (Although any revelation wouldn't be too recent since Lili is lots older than most planesalkers we know of so far.)
I would almost bet all all my stash that Nissa visits Lorwyn,Ravnica, or Mirroden as her first jump.
Jace....no Idea.
I just hope that more walkers we've heard of before but only once will one day appear again. (Masrath, Tessebik I'm looking @ you)
But back to ten worlds, I'm sure between all of us we probably have a lot of the worlds in Origins speculated correctly.

Quote from PlayerKent »

Characters learning things the audience already knows seems like a trivially small development to me, especially when they don't act on that information immediately.

Two things:

Characters learning things the audience knows already is a huge and traditional element of storytelling. Often it creates tension leading up to that moment of realization, as well as speculation as to what the character will do with what they now know but we have known all along. Would it be a major plot development if Niv-Mizzet learned of Ral Zarek's identity as a planewalker, or even Jace for that matter? YOU BET IT WOULD BE. I don't think he'd kill either of them but experiment? oh yesss...

Secondly, How can Ugin immediately act on the information that he just received regarding Bolas's manipulation at the Eye? Did you want the author to squeeze in a titanic battle between two elder dragons in a short story that already featured an entire dialogue between characters on temporal metaphysics, and later the nature of friendship, Identity, and realized and unrealized potential? You do realize people are already criticizing the story for being too rushed, and being too stuffed right? Also I wouldn't want (nor should anyone expect) any major plot developments like Ugin taking "immediate action" on bolas, to happen without it being represented in cardboard. We only have so many windows into the world of MTG so I'd rather anything major be somewhat appreciated not just in story but also in gameplay if it can be achieved. Finally, The article and previous ones hints at Ugin and Sorin taking immediate action soon on the escaped Eldrazi on Zendikar. With Battle for Zendikar being the next set how is this not "Immediate" enough for you?
The article has it's weaknesses but it's easy (and lazier) to criticize and far harder to to analyze. True analysis sees with an eye for praise and an eye for improvement.

This is great in the 99 for EDH, I have several decks I want this for. Generally speaking, he'll passively draw you at least 3 cards in the first couple turns he's out while making combat and politics more likely to work to your advantage. I like that if the attack trigger isn't really relevant, the spell clause likely will be and vice versa. Either way, he can net you some good card draw without much investment, allowing you to draw into answers and use them right away. A lot of white's card draw is mana intensive which slows you down, where Mangara is much more forgiving, though the trade off is that you don't get to control the draw.

Quote from ColossalDreadmaw »

What planeswalkers would you say are representative of Southern Europeans? Out of topic I know but I always thought of Liliana as a southern european

I guess it tends on what you consider Southern European but Gideon and Calix for Theros (Greece), Dack for Fiora (Italy), Arlinn and Sorin from Innistrad (a lot of Germany but has a lot of Romanian influences for vampire themes) and Domir and Ral from Ravnica (Slavic).

Elspeth isn't from Theros and we don't know much about her home planes culture influences.

Quote from ColossalDreadmaw »

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

Is Basri our first Arab planeswalker since Taysir? Because that’s awesome

And Samut I suppose

What about Tezzeret?

Tezzeret is black.

Ancient Egypt wasn't a homogeneous place and had influences from Arabic, Southern Europeans and African cultures and people. Samut is more on that African side while Basri is more on the Arabic side. Nice that after 56 walkers we finally see someone Arabic and not another minotaur or something.

Some promotional imagery

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/where-find-m21-and-jumpstart-previews-2020-06-02

Anyway it turns out they are also previewing jumpstart as well with core 2021

And the twitch on June 4th (starting line) will show cards from both sets

Core 2021 starts June 4th

Jumpstart start on june 17th (right after the last day with core 2021 spoilers)

I agree with Visserdrix’s suggestion to use your gold cards to signpost themes in your cube, as Wizards now tend to do in their own sets.

My second cube is built along these lines. I designed it to draft with my sons and for them to draft with friends. It avoids older cards so the templating is post-M10, and the focus on archetype synergies makes it easier to draft an effective deck. The supported archetypes are as follows:

WU blinking/bouncing creatures to reuse enters the battlefield abilities
UB reanimator
BR discard matters (hellbent, madness)
RG lands matter
GW tokens
WB sacrifice
BG using graveyard as a resource
GU +1/+1 tokens
UR spells matter
RW go-wide (battalion, pumping all creatures)

Archetypes are not limited to a single strategy: WB can be drafted as either more aggressive or more controlling; BG is typically midrange but can have combo elements; etc.

Archetypes can bleed into each other, for example white token producers support both the token and go wide decks, and something like Cloudgoat Ranger is a tasty blink target. Similarly cards that have elements of more than one archetype are valuable both to increase density of support and create interesting draft picks. Legion’s Landing is both a token producer and a go-wide incentive; Voldaren Pariah is a sacrifice enabler with Madness; Nissa, Voice of Zendikar supports tokens, +1/+1 counters and lands matter.

ing archetype support out of colour is fine and to some extent unavoidable. Young Pyromancer is included as a spells matter card, but also happens to produce tokens. This enables 3+ colour decks and helps stop the draft from becoming stale by allowing more surprise synergies.

My list is not yet balanced properly. All archetypes are viable, but there are individual cards that may be at the wrong power level. For me this will have to come through testing.

With regards to your list, I think you are setting your power level too low. Bear in mind that standard draft sets contain cards that have to cater to other formats, and still contain a lot of cards that are draft “filler”. Simply by removing these there is a good chance that your cube will produce decks above the power of a standard draft.

Treefolk will be a challenge. It is likely to be a very linear archetype and difficult to get enough black representation. You could expand a little into “creatures matter” and “forests matter”. I’d also break the singleton rule for key cards like Bosk Banneret or any playable black Treefolk.

I’d be inclined to give a bit more to RG than just aggro. Maybe werewolves if you want another tribal theme, +1/+1 counters, or even lands matter.

Taking this route will create a unique cube that is tailored to what you most enjoy about magic. The downside is that it will be harder to find advice because other cube builders will be appraising cards on different criteria.

My advice is that you can use your gold section to help steer players towards these archetypes. You need to find gold cards that are powerful enough that if a player picks it up they are rewarded for doing so and it steers towards to draft goals you have determined.

Once you have found your gold cards that will be the "poster boys" of those archetypes you can then include a few mono coloured cards to support that archetype. Just be careful you don't pick cards that are too narrow as you want to make sure the cards you are putting in have value on their own in order to stop them from being completely useless in other decks.

You may also want to consider colours that can act as a support to that archetype. for example you are planning on +1/+1 counters in selesnya. but there are some good counters cards in blue and black like drana, liberator of malakir, and nadir kraken. Both these cards provide good value on their own but can support a larger archetype.

Dog tribal I would definatly build it if its a good commander

and it makes sense jumpstart does have a hound theme and core 2021 would be in this

and there was a playtest card about dog tribal



Oh I will laugh so hard if we get a dog that saids

dogs you control haven protection from cats

(the obscure protection is in the reprint section before you say that's it.)

Should tell you guys there's probably one of the best reprints in history potentially in core 2021 a standard set

Quote from Dusk707 »

While I agree that the price of this product is on the absurd end, there was an article on MTGGoldfish about how the set is for everyone, regardless of whether you buy a box or not, that raises some good points.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/double-masters-is-for-you-whether-you-buy-a-box-or-not

It raises some good points justifying Double Masters's existence, but it doesn't solve the reprint problem in the long term. Like other master sets, reprinted cards drop a little to a lot, but often go back up in price in a year. Also, why limit the box to whales and investors? And if the box is really valuable, people might hoard the boxes, preventing the cards from entering circulation on the secondary market. Also, as a commenter there pointed out, how can people who like the draft format play draft if the box is so expensive, because Wizards designs a draft experience for these sets, premium or not?

The only sustainable solution is to reprint more often. Pokemon and YuGiOh reprint often in a variety of products, and it's not harming their overall sales.