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- Cranky
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Member for 10 years, 2 months, and 21 days
Last active Fri, Mar, 10 2023 07:13:09
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May 17, 20222
buffntuff posted a message on [40K] [2X2] Warhammer 40k and Double Masters 2022 Prebeat — Weekly MTG previewsHonestly the arguments against this stuff just break down to "Change is scary and I don't like it." Tough tootin! We live mortal lives on a planet that is hurtling through the universe at insane speeds, at no point is anything not changing. You either learn to roll with it or it breaks you. Pick one!Posted in: The Rumor Mill -
May 14, 2022
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caulkwrangler posted a message on [40K] [2X2] Warhammer 40k and Double Masters 2022 Prebeat — Weekly MTG previewsPosted in: The Rumor MillQuote from soramaro »
I'm so tired of people bringing up the "but Urza had mechs and laser guns!" point and acting they've just invalidated all UB criticism. Yes, MtG is not limited to traditional fantasy. I actually welcome Magic pushing its boundaries - concept wise, I am very much a fan of Mirrodin, Kaladesh, (New) Kamigawa, New Capenna etc.Quote from Evil Never Dies »Quote from Jh216 »Quote from Dale Dan Tony »
Because they're being big mad children and if they can't like it, neither can we!
You (and many others) completely fail to see why people dislike this. Magic has always been a fantasy game. Boltguns, tanks, spaceships and the likes have no place getting mixed into a fantasy game. UB is an escalation of crossing a very undesirable line that started with SL. Since it’s a Commander product you could potentially be forced to deal with these themed cards whether you wist to or not because an opponent could plop them on the table at any given moment.
So this is not a matter of you not being allowed to like something. It is a matter of everybody being forced to like it or having to deal with it. If this was a stand-alone product not mixed into the rest of the game nobody would mind.
I'm sorry but nowhere Magic has ever promised to be a game limited exclusively on traditional fantasy setting. Never. Since the very early inception of Magic lore, sci-fi stuff was always a core element in both story and cards (all the Urza and Thran Empire and Skyships with laser beams etc.). [...]
P.S: and to to be really fair, even the whole "use other IP" stuff had always been part of the game, like the very first expansion of the game made by the creator of this card game itself, Arabian Nights and also Portal Three Kingdoms (which is setted in our real world with no magic of supernatural elements at all). So, yeah, WotC is simply doing what has just already did in the past multiple times and are already part of the game forever, whetever you like it or not.
It's not an issue of setting, it's an issue of creative control. Wizards has full control over worlds like New Capenna and Kaladesh, and they can shape them according to what they feel is "in line" with Magic. As Maro loves to say, restrictions breed crativity. Wanting to make a set that feels kind of like a gangster movie without just taking characters from a popular gangster film and slapping them on cards is a huge part of what makes Magic appealing. For the longest time, they have forced themselves to do their own thing, and it has lead to the creation of a lot of really cool worlds.
People say that UB doesn't matter in the big picture because Magic is already full of wildly different universes. But those people are missing that despite Magic's worlds being so different from another there's still creative "glue" that holds them together, like the mana system and arbitrary rules like "no straight-up guns." UB takes a big dump on this whole concept. On Maro's blog, the reason given for why 40K "only" got commander precons was because the 40K universe doesn't really mesh with Magic concepts like the color pie etc. So they are able to correctly identify the problem - but instead of going "OK, so maybe we should scrap this idea then" they chose to go ahead with it anyway. Why? Easy $$$, that's why.(*) Wizards is not doing UB to expand the scope of what Magic can do, they're just doing it to activate people's lizard brains. "I like X, and I like Magic. Now they put X on a Magic card. Must consume!!!!!"
It saddens me that people fall for this god-awful scheme. Are they really not able to enjoy two things separately from another, or see why keeping things separate can be beneficial? I like ATLA, and I like MtG. But should there be ATLA Commander precons? No! Why would anyone want that? It's like putting sushi on chocolate cake because you like both things individually.
And please stop with the Portal Three Kingdoms and Arabian Nights bull*****. Claiming that "Magic has always been X" because it did X a few time 20+ years ago simply doesn't hold up as an argument. It's like saying that artifact destruction has always been in blacks part of the color pie and pointing to Gate to Phyrexia.
(*) Note: Now I can already hear you going "it's every company's goal to make money..." It's amazing how people suddenly become the most staunch defenders of capitalism in arguments like this. The point is that how you make money is also important, and for WotC, UB is one of the most creatively lazy and greedy ways to make money there is.
You seriously took the time to write this out? -
Mar 6, 2021
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LeyShade posted a message on Read this announcement at your own risk (it involves mtg)Posted in: The Rumor MillQuote from mikeyG »Quote from Flamebuster »Quote from mikeyG »Quote from Flamebuster »Quote from Djau the Jackal »Super Smash Bros. was literally made from the start to be a crossover though.
MTG was literally designed off of D&D campaigns and has heavy D&D influence especially in early sets, particularly Legends. Do you not think that perhaps MTG was meant to be a crossover-enabler for fantasy-esque settings?
'buster
No, and this is still a disingenuous take. The fumbling for a cohesive identity of a game in its infancy is not indicative of its identity as it coalesced over decades, which is why a lot of those early sets have direct references that feel out of place in hindsight (though how much that bothers a player is subjective). And this take also conflates influence and homage with expanding the game to include external IPs.
Universe Beyond represents a change for the game, if the TWD Secret Lair was dipping the toe in this is a belly flop. We can all have different responses to it, but let's not pretend this is an organic change in the game or that the game was always meant for it. People can embrace the UB concept without all that.
Your points don't make sense. First you're saying it's bad for the game to expand and evolve, particularly with IPs, yet say it's not right to assume the identity of a game from its infancy. Isn't that what you're doing? "The game shouldn't expand because that's not what it's about yet its original intent shouldn't be the basis for which the game develops and evolves."
Make up your mind man.
'buster
That's not at all what I said. What I said was that the game took a few sets to really find its footing/identity but that for decades after it had established its identity and set expectations for players. And that identity was independent from IP crossovers (though MtG obviously has pulled considerable inspiration from other IPs/mythologies/pop culture/etc over the years), until recently.
The reason I made that point was to disagree with the assertion that those early days of trial and error when it came to how the game interacts with other IPs/real world concepts can be used to justify Universe Beyond because I feel that is a weak argument. UB isn't less of a big shift for the game because Frankenstein's Monster was a card in 1995. Despite the growing pains of the early days, MtG developed an identity over decades distinctly independent of direct crossover, to the point where the obvious lifts from other IPs don't really feel like they fit in hindsight. That's the basis of my disagreement that early sets like Legends show that MtG was meant for IP crossover like UB, it's a weak and disingenuous line of reasoning. If that's not feeling clear for you, by all means let me know which aspects you need more clarity on.
I'm not against the game expanding, far from it, I just tend to dislike expansions that feel dissonant with the core of the game. And I don't feel IP crossovers fit with that core, certainly others may.
Since those early sets, Magic has appeared in: Multiple tactics, strategy and hack n slash video games. A magazine only cross-promotion with Yu-Gi-Oh (A gold card Dark Magician, a 'dragon' 6 star Shivan Dragon monster). Official crossover material for D&D. A series of game books (published by company who produces Queens Blade books). A staff only UFS (now AniVersus) character card. Referenced/parodied in at least two anime. A proposed & developed, ultimately unreleased board game that crossed over with the Monster In My Pocket brand. A crossbrand drinks promotion with World of Warcraft. A white dwarf only army list for Slivers...
These are a handful of examples from around the world, across MTG's history. The only difference is this time those franchies appear in MTG card form. Which is why I find it so amusing that a tiny subset of players who've proudly pushed their IP into the frames of others are now having a major backlash that those same IPs are appearing in theirs. To say that MTG wasn't designed to facilitate crossover's is to literally ignore the patenting documents that force everyone else to pay Hasbro royalties (because most of it's mechanical fundamentals (like tapping a card to show it's used) are properiety).
As for what is original and divergent about lifting a picture of Christoper Lambert from the movie Merlin, making a set about a Magic School with a cross promotion for that other IP (promotion abandoned eleventh hour after other IP frontperson damaged said IP), or, Magic's most iconic villian being copied from an 80's sci-fi show villian. The whole thing was always designed to be a crossover of multiple IP's, it just wasn't considered big enough by the other IPs brand managers to make it a worthwhile investment for them to grant a license to use most of the time (as opposed to Games Workshop's recent scattershot approach of licenses for everyone).
Quote from Dontrike »Quote from Cranky »
I don't understand this position. These new toys take ABSOLUTELY NOTHING away from existing players. Fun and enjoyment is not a zero-sum game.
This likely did take away products they would otherwise enjoy though, like Planechase or other products, so that may not be necessarily true. I would much rather see parts of the game that haven't been explored, not other franchises I can explore as much as I want outside of the game, from all of it or none at all. If I wanted to play a LotR card game I would have played either of them or go off and play the MMO (Lord of the Rings Online) and there is plenty to digest about 40k, but I choose not to.
But that makes your argument simply: It's ok to deny people product that they want to play with, as long as it's not the product 'I' want to play with.
Also, relatively sure neither of those IP's had a card game that functioned using MTG's system... until now.
Quote from Dontrike »Quote from Cranky »This adds something new and nice for crossover fans and fans of the other IPs, attracting new blood to the game (which is an objectively good thing).
Are there fans of strictly crossovers? Like they don't like the two IPs separately but putting together? They enjoy crossovers in general? Also, I don't think this will bring in that much new blood, likely new cash, but not new players when looking at this that would buy less of this product.
That your argument seemed to now imply that if you like two IP's you shouldn't want them to crossover because you can enjoy them apart is folly. If that was the case, people wouldn't be arguing since childhood about which hero/villain/characters are better across franchises, and in my experience across a breadth of media, the biggest causes of failure for established IP's are antagonizing their consumer base and/or purist consumers who bully out those newly interested for not liking 'the right part' of said media (in thie case of this thread, it seems to be obsessive with Dominaria lore, conveniently ignoring the cross-IP references in all the non-Dominaria lore). Cross IP promotion is very rarely stated as a reason for total IP failure.
Quote from Dontrike »Quote from Cranky »Additionally, the mythos that Magic -does- have is that multiple universes exist and the player/planeswalkers pull creatures and spells through time and space to use them to do battle. Dipping into other IPs is 100% unequivocally exactly what Magic is already about, and arguments to the contrary are disingenuous and misinformed at best.
Well that's incredibly wrong.
No, it's not. As that's literally how WotC/Hasbro has their copyright filed. That is their literal canonical mechanics, as reiterated as recently as 2020 by marketing materials. You're now at the point of literally sitting telling us how great Magic lore is, and then telling is that the lore of Magic is 100% wrong as compared to your personal headcanon.
Quote from Dontrike »Mages are not summoning Steven Universe or the Red Ranger from ever Power Rangers season they are summoning beasts/spells from what they know, usually from things they met.
Then by your own established logic, they must of either 1) Gone to the places of residence of those other entities to meet them (within that IP), or 2) Those things came to the spellcasters residence for them to know of these other entities (within Magic IP). That means, on the weight of your own argument, the game's fundamental core is literally steeped in there being a multiverse of endless possibility.
Quote from Dontrike »Kamahl summoning fire cats during Odyssey block is because he's seen them in some capacity or knows the spell to do so, but he's not calling forth Herby the car or a Shoyru Neopet.
Thanks for reminding me, I totally forgot about the Neopets/Kellogs/Hasbro cereal crossover in the UK from when I was a wee one.
Quote from Dontrike »They summon within the Magic universe or just their world, this isn't Rick & Morty or every other franchise that just has to have a multiverse right now.
Um, except the word of God says you're wrong, as it's been established since the time of Yawgmoth and Urza that Planeswalkers are indeed summoning across time and space, and the aether fluxx itself is a name for the space between dimensions of existence. The 'planes' and 'aether flux' are themselves copyrighted as a multiverse, with those names being the IP's 'terminological names' for those phenomena. Ironically, they weren't able to establish rights to the concept of 'planeswalkers', as there was multiple IP's that already did that thing for it to become a narrative mainstay.
In essence, planeswalking is exactly like Rick and Morty, which is why the shows creators have even taken jabs at properties such as MTG and narrative devices like The Storyteller's Convention (both in the same episode).
Quote from Dontrike »Quote from andy_hall23 »Some of you need to analyze your thoughts about 'HATE' 'Hate' is a strong feeling and word. MLK said 'Let no man pull you low enough to hate him' Hate is what brings evil and breeds *****ty people.
Well this is just a poor argument. "You can't use the word hate because technically...." is nothing that adds to the discussion in any way. Aw man, I can't say I hate stubbing my toe, because it's not the right use of the word. Are you kidding?
You just spent an entire section going off at someone for using words incorrectly (despite them being entirely accurate). That sounds a lot like a case of 'pot, kettle, black' to me...
Quote from Dontrike »Quote from andy_hall23 »Its a freaking card game. People been making 'Fake Cards' of like Superman and Wolverine and Batman for like ..years..HELL , INQUEST MAGAZINE did it themselves back in the day ..they had fake cards printed up in the back of the Magazine for years!! You can search them up and everything.
People have also been making incredibly overpowered fake cards too, so what's your point? You admit they were fake and therefore couldn't be played with in a tournament setting (which these will be) isn't really a point in "WotC should do it" argument.
Above bolded by me. That bolded text also indicates you've got no idea how product management and development works, because these products were part commissioned (as was the Commander products, Planechase, Battlebond, Archenemy, Secret Lair, From The Vault and every other ancillary revenue stream) based on observations of what the players were doing. The same logic that Wizards is literally explaining in their articles on the recent TSR set (the timeshifted sheet). At this point, you're literally telling the people who did the work that their wrong about their reasons for doing the work, when they're the only people who can define those reasons. Your argument is becoming more detached from observable fact and straying into trying to impose your feelings (which are clearly strong) in pace of those facts.
Quote from Dontrike »Quote from andy_hall23 »Some people here are gonna start tweeting Maro and all the people in Magic they can ...and then they'll get blocked and think that because they got blocked or some ***** that its a 'Win'
Yes, there are crazy people in the world no matter what fandom or corner, what's your point again?
I'm going to put this here because I want to circle back to this later, because as someone who lives with and works with those with mental illness, I find it pretty antagonizing (and disrespectful) the attitudes that are being taken here...
Quote from Dontrike »Quote from andy_hall23 »Sometimes ...when I was younger I always wondered why us nerds got picked on and beaten up ...the freaking way that some of you have been acting? I can see why there's a bit of that still today.
Didn't you just say people should communicate, but now it should get you beaten? What?
If you go around screaming in peoples faces in public, insulting them and belittling them, screaming "I was just communicating" when they retaliate will get you zero sympathy for your situation because your actions have repercussions that weasel wording will not always save you from.
Quote from Dontrike »Quote from Flamebuster »
MTG was literally designed off of D&D campaigns and has heavy D&D influence especially in early sets, particularly Legends.Do you not think that perhaps MTG was meant to be a crossover-enabler for fantasy-esque settings?
Being inspired by something does not make a product a crossover. Hot Fuzz isn't a crossover because it was inspired by action movie cliches. D&D isn't a crossover because it was inspired by Lord of the Rings. Magic being inspired by people that played D&D makes it about as much of a crossover as I am a shoe.
See above, as when the word of god officially lists it in it's copyrights and trademarks as a mechanical system to facilitate gameplay across multiple IP's (the same filing that has existed from origin to now), that it consistently crosses over with other IP's (self confessing you're ignoring those because you like those IP's doesn't make them less of a crossover), and directly plans crossovers with other IP's (which it's done since it's inception). The ONLY thing Wizards ever made clear wasn't part of the crossover was it's own story canon, which admittely would be terrible if they tried to canonise other IP's into their own. But they've never, not in the history of the games publication, ever said that the mechanical focus can't be crossed over into other games, other IP's or other media.
Quote from Dontrike »Quote from login »It seems like a tantrum really, you drop your enjoyment because one addition to the game, maybe you didn't enjoy the game that much in the first place. Anyway, seems like something deeper going on, I would talk with my therapist for sure.
So you believe someone not liking their hobby anymore because said hobby no longer matches their interests is a mental disorder that needs therapy? *deep sigh*.......What?
Sorry, remember that part I brought up earlier I wanted to save for later...
... You don't get to go around using mental illness as a weapon to beat people over the head with, asserting that disagreeing with you is akin to mental illness, and then jump in to accuse those who view with disdain the anger and hatred that people are spewing out as misusing the application of mental illness. I know it's consistent with your side of the arguments 'one rule for us, another rule for everyone else' mentality that drives your sides collective consciousness, but as someone who literally lives with the feeling of reality trying to crush them from existence everyday, seeing anyone bandying around mental illness as a weapon (or ill conceived defense) is appaulling, and that behaviour will drive away new players and destroy the games enduring fandom far quicker than any disagreement over IP crossovers, favourite deck colours or favourite formats ever could.
Argument is fine, tearing someone else apart is fine. Using the mental health of third parties is not.
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Mar 3, 2021
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andy_hall23 posted a message on Read this announcement at your own risk (it involves mtg)Some of you need to analyze your thoughts about 'HATE'Posted in: The Rumor Mill
'Hate' is a strong feeling and word.
MLK said 'Let no man pull you low enough to hate him'
Hate is what brings evil and breeds *****ty people.
Its a freaking card game. People been making 'Fake Cards' of like Superman and Wolverine and Batman for like ..years..HELL , INQUEST MAGAZINE did it themselves back in the day ..they had fake cards printed up in the back of the Magazine for years!! You can search them up and everything.
OH no ..they are making cards with other things on them. Oh well. Be the consumers you know you are if you don't like them ..and not buy them. And if you're playing against them in Commander? Freaking make better decks! Make decks that they don't wanna play against either! Or HECK have some common sense and communicate!
Some people here are gonna start tweeting Maro and all the people in Magic they can ...and then they'll get blocked and think that because they got blocked or some ***** that its a 'Win'
Sometimes ...when I was younger I always wondered why us nerds got picked on and beaten up ...the freaking way that some of you have been acting? I can see why there's a bit of that still today. -
Feb 26, 20213
foam_dome posted a message on Read this announcement at your own risk (it involves mtg)Posted in: The Rumor MillQuote from Jh216 »The tables I play at and regular playgroup will ban all this universe beyond crap straight away just like TWD. That will suck for people coming to the store with these cards in their deck not being able to get in a game.
Then it sounds like the problem there would stem from your playgroup, no? -
Nov 3, 20201
DanzBorin posted a message on [CMR] Commander's Plate— One More Mana previewPosted in: The Rumor MillQuote from hoffmkr »Is this on short list of best EQ ever?
Cheaper than swords and protection from everything you want except yourself.
Except it's not good in commanders with 3 mana or more. Good chance it's pretty much irrelevant.
It's okay in 2 color decks, better in mono, and great in colorless. I wouldn't put that on a short list of best equipment. -
Nov 1, 20201
Tiro of Meletis posted a message on [CMR] Jeweled LotusAll this discussion is a sign that this card is shaking up the format in an exciting way. I like that.Posted in: The Rumor Mill -
Oct 18, 20201
JuiceBOX posted a message on Making our own RC?Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from Cranky »Juice, you're just banging your head against a wall there. I blocked and reported that dude a while ago, either he's completely unhinged or a dedicated troll, and your efforts to apply logic to the situation are just going to wear you out while he simply finds another way to weasel around what you say to support his own points.
Trust me, I know from experience, you're better off not interacting with people like that. For your own sanity.
Yeah, his doubling down tends to lead to longer and longer posts trying to defend his lack of substance and relevancy as he starts scraping the bottom of the barrel trying not to sound daft. -
Oct 18, 2020
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JuiceBOX posted a message on Making our own RC?Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from DirkGently »You aren’t making any counter arguments - I make a point, and then you say it’s ridiculous without explaining why.
Okay, here we go. Let's keep in mind that you said "Commander is the only context.
1) It's a blatantly predatory business model. "If you miss a drop, it's gone forever" or whatever their stupid slogan is. They're obviously preying on peoples' FOMO to sell these things, because people are worried they might want it later and the price will skyrocket. It's the same psychologically manipulative tactics that mobile games have been "pioneering" in an effort to force people to part with their money as effectively as possible. This was semi-acceptable with reprints since at least those cards were already available at whatever the price was, but with these, there's really no telling where the price will go.
Irrelevant to Commander. The format is littered with cards that are largely unaccessible and yet the format continues to grow and do well. Further to this point, Commander is an incredibly proxy friendly format for this very reason. Whether or not this is a "Predatory business model" is irrelevant to Commander, specifically when it comes to the discussion of "Should these cards be banned?" - which I will remind you, is kind of the centerpiece of this entire thread. This, is the first example of you straw-manning.
2) The price is extortionary. Ignoring the tokens because who gives a damn, you're paying $10 per card, assuming you're in a place where you don't have to pay import taxes or whatever else. That's a price we're used to because of the singles market, but the reason some singles are worth $10+ is because of all the many, many, many cards that AREN'T worth that much. For every $10 piece of cardboard WotC produces for a penny, they make hundreds of worthless cards for the same cost, and leave it to the secondary market to sort out what is worth what. By straight-up selling cards for $10, they're putting in almost zero effort and blatantly ripping players off.
Also, irrelevant to Commander, as well as this thread. See the above counterpoint as to why.
3) There is already a precedent for crossovers in magic, in fact there have been two: silver border cards, which almost everyone I've met is happy to allow in a game of casual commander so long as they aren't being abused, and the godzilla "alt-art" versions from Ikoria. Either of these would have been acceptable to most people, but they didn't do either - because if they did alt-arts, then they wouldn't be able to prey on FOMO because most people would just pick them up in a normal version, and if they did silver-border, then players wouldn't consider them "real cards" and so they wouldn't feel it as necessary to pick them up and they won't sell as many copies (likely only fans of TWD would pick them up, which imo ought to be the goal anyway). It's a blatantly greedy move to push the cards without regard for how players are going to feel about them.
I don't know what a silver border has to do with it, other than making it illegal for use in Commander. Which kind of runs contradictory to your statements and issues further on, which suggest that the problem is that these cards are legal everywhere... Once again, the context here has nothing to do with Commander. You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder as to how collectables in this game should be handled, and it is rather arbitrary when it comes to Commander and the playability of the format with these cards existing within it.
4) Having non-magic IP, especially modern day real-world-adjacent IP, forced into the game is annoying and immersion breaking. Personally I'm a little luke-warm on this point since I'd be happy to see, for example, a set based around lord of the rings or some similarly venerable IP, but as someone who watched the first 3-4 seasons of TWD, it's a garbage show that gets way more marketing push than it deserves. Having TWD cards forced into the the game feels like an advertisement for a commercial product, not a fun flavor change.
As I had said before, you are talking about how rare these cards are and how that rarity is a cash grab move, but then you seem to suggest that they are common enough to impact the immerson of games across the globe. Your complaints about this product, really appear to be hyperbole. Is this product too rare for most players to get, or is it too common that the IP bleed is going to cause mass exodus in the format? Which is it?
5) Selling these cards online only cuts out the LGS, which are already struggling significantly thanks to the pandemic, and certainly haven't been helped by the advent of arena either. It's a move that feels like it's focused on the short-term gains of "cutting out the middle-man", but at the sacrifice of the long-term health of paper play.
Your 4th instance of being completely irrelevant to Commander.
6) These aren't available in all regions, which isn't fair to players in those regions (I'm also lukewarm on this point since I don't think anyone should buy them).
See Spoiler for "Your Point #4.
7) If they ever become tournament viable - probably not this batch, but who knows with future batches - not only might that cause a catastrophic price surge, but it also might mean that high-level magic play is being dominated by Mickey Mouse or whatever other cringy IP WotC is shilling for.
Pretty bold doomsday claim here. Just because they are showcasing collectable cross-IP promotions, doesn't mean they won't be protecting their brand. We are seeing more on-brand products for Commander this year, than ever before. WOTC knows how popular this format is, and they know that it didn't surge because of My Little Pony cards or Godzilla cards. Hasbro has a pretty invested interest in carrying the MTG IP, which is evident by the surge in on-brand product over the last few years.
8) Probably the most minor note, but I guess Negan has done some bad stuff on the show (beyond the expected murder and whatnot) to where it might be kinda weird to play him as a commander - like imagine if Jeffrey Epstein was a commander. No clue, I finally gave up right about the time he was introduced and at this point I refuse to care about TWD on principle.
Conflating the representation of a character killing people in a post-apocalyptic fictional story, to the representation of an actual person who has sexually exploited women, is a pretty poor argument as to why these cards should not exist. Your last few points really appear to be drummed up because you are scraping the bottom of the barrel
[/quote]most importantly, these set a TERRIBLE precedent for what could happen in the future. Tons of crossovers with awful IPs (someone's mentioned fortnite is possible...just shoot me), the potential for legacy-viable cards, or maybe even standard-legal cards, or even just powerful commanders that become must-haves, at extortionary prices that cut out LGSs while they bleed commander players dry. Some of those are more slippery-slopey than others, but the additional IPs is basically confirmed by WotC. If this was a one-and-done product I'd be annoyed but I'd get over it, but I think this is likely to be the beginning of the end for what we once called magic - and I don't say that lightly. I've never felt this way before in almost twenty years of playing, in fact I've usually defended WotC. But this is completely different, and if we don't do something about it, this game is going to go downhill very quickly.
See spoiler for "Your Pont #7.
I think things like this are gauged on how players ultimately receive them. So I will end this string of talking points with this - I think it is perfectly okay for people to be turned off by this IP bleed. I think it is cringy as hell, I really disliked the Godzilla cards as well. However, that is a poor excuse for exaggerating the situation and blowing it out of proportion. It is okay to be vocal about it, I have been on numerous reddit threads sharing my distaste for cards like this. But you have taken an issue not really relevant to Commander, and raided this thread and touted that "Commander is the only context." When really, none of your points are specific to Commander and whether or not the RC should ban these cards or if players should try and find an alternative to the RC.
If you’re not interested in engaging with the substance of the discussion then I’m not interested in trying to communicate with you.
THIS, right here, is why you look so silly. I gave all of these counterpoints in previous posts and you became so defensive that you don't even acknowledge them as counterpoints. You have thrown not only context out the window - but also logic and reason. The breakdown in this conversation (and thread) isn't from me, my man, it is from you. I suggest you learn to keep yourself a bit more grounded. -
Oct 8, 20201
ChariSays posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking DeadAh yes, obviously easier to call someone a troll than to stop being a hypocrite long enough to look one's own actions. Cool site, how's it doing?Posted in: The Rumor Mill - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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To continue this tangent: A lot of people REALLY value consistency. Myself included. The first cards that go in any blue deck for me are Ponder, Preordain, and Brainstorm. Variance is an extremely dirty word lol. If I build a deck to do a thing, I damn well want it to do that thing. Not everyone specifically seeks out a lack of variance, but I think everyone CAN get on board with with the fact that its incredibly frustrating when your deck doesn't 'do what it's supposed to do.'
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Is he strong? Eh. He's just a ramp/value engine for a durdly deck. Which is what average players always profess to want out of a game of EDH. I played him for a while and he was fun but not broken.
If he were broken I could see some validity to the argument that he smothers diversity (ie: if he were the best option for 5c commander) but since he's just a solid catch-all commander that doesn't do any one thing particularly well there's TONS of more effective options for almost every conceivable strategy.
If you want to be competitive you play Kenrith or Najeela.
If you want to play tribal you play Morophon.
If you want to be aggressive you play Scion or maybe Slivers.
If you want to play dragons you play Ur Dragon or Tiamat.
If you want to ramp and durdle, yeah I guess you play Golos.
Golos is never about doing the most broken thing, that's not what he does. So I don't see him being the most popular commander as a result of his power level, I see it as a result of casual EDH players just loving ramp and durdle strategies. And there's nothing wrong with that, so why take away casual players' toys? The ban just seems gratuitous, and as much as I hate 'spirit of the format' arguments, removing Golos looks an awful lot like a dagger aimed directly at the 'spirit of the format' and any other explanation feels disingenuous.
To indulge in some conspiracy theory:
Coupled with a Worldfire unban, which is definitely against the 'spirit of the format' as the RC lays it out (regardless of the fact that the card is bad), I'm curious as to whether this announcement is setting the stage for something greater. The ban/unban both coming out of left field with no valid explanation for either, and the way both seem almost specifically designed to piss off the playerbase makes me think maybe this is the first salvo in the RC sabotaging its own reputation so that WotC can finally swoop in and fix the format without enraging the more petulant and vocal members of their consumer base.
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In a roundabout way, yes. The situation can be broken down as such:
1) WotC made a completely non-binding promise not to reprint the cards on the list
2) WotC, as was their right, went back on that promise repeatedly via editing the list and using 'loopholes' to reprint cards
3) WotC wanted to revisit the list one last time in order to abolish it
4) WotC consulted with members of the community as well as their corporate lawyers to see what people wanted as well as what was legally allowed
5) The community as a whole came out in favor of abolition
6) WotC, without further explanation, said that they would not ever be touching the list again and that they were not allowed to say why
Some additional information about the legal situation:
1) Folks throw around the term 'Promissory Estoppel' as a reason that people might sue WotC over abolition of the list. Definition: "Within contract law, promissory estoppel refers to the doctrine that a party may recover on the basis of a promise made when the party's reliance on that promise was reasonable, and the party attempting to recover detrimentally relied on the promise." In other words, if people made investments based on the idea that they'd never lose value because the cards couldn't be reprinted, they could sue.
2) This concept is a joke and would be thrown out in court, specifically in this case because removing the reserved list would actually increase the value of most peoples' collections due to increased interest (as shown repeatedly with high-value reprints of incredibly low-supply cards), and more often than not original printings of cards hold value regardless of reprints because of their collectible status. The key bit in proving Promissory Estoppel is that there ACTUALLY HAS TO BE FINANCIAL DAMAGE, which would not occur outside of a small window where the investors themselves panic dump their positions and temporarily deflate prices before they skyrocket back up due to renewed interest. The plaintiffs would also need to have kept detailed records and prove intent to rely upon said promise. There is 0% chance anyone would win such a case.
3) Corporate lawyers are not paid to win court cases. They are paid to keep a company out of court entirely.
4) Regardless of the 100% chance that WotC would win any litigation regarding the reserved list, they would in fact have to go to court in the first place which is a big no-no for corporate lawyers.
5) Corporate lawyers almost always have clauses in their contracts to prevent their clients from citing them in business decisions, for fear of a bad decision (like the one in question here) following them through their career.
If you piece all of the above together, regardless of how good it would be for the game, a Hasbro lawyer said 'no' and now WotC has to suck it up and they can't even come out and tell us why due to contracts. Meanwhile, investors get to make free money with no downside risk, soaking up large chunks of the supply do the detriment of the player base.
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Is it obnoxious when my opponents play Hullbreacher into my Brainstorm or in combination with a wheel? Well yeah, that's the idea. Not going to cry like an infant when someone interacts with my card draw or plays a combo that doesn't even end the game, especially when a single piece of removal or a counterspell stops it neatly.
Card is good. Card was fun to play and play against. Card will be missed.
(Card should've definitely been white though, yes)
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This one killed me. On a crusade to defend the honor of Magic's lore, and literally knows so little about Magic's lore that he winds up attacking it himself. I'M DEAD.
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You know members of WotC staff received death threats over TWD? I expect they've already gotten a few more over UB, and that says a lot about the mentality of people who are upset about it. The amount of energy folks are putting into trying (and failing) to explain why this is a bad thing is mind-boggling.
Makes me afraid for how nasty and childish games are going to get in public spaces after lockdowns are lifted.
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By all means have at it, the majority of folks will be over here enjoying cool new cards just like the majority of folks were actually quite happy with previous crossovers if you look at sales data instead of angry Facebook posts during a time when everyone had nothing better to do.
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I don't understand this position. These new toys take ABSOLUTELY NOTHING away from existing players. Fun and enjoyment is not a zero-sum game. This adds something new and nice for crossover fans and fans of the other IPs, attracting new blood to the game (which is an objectively good thing).
As to the comments you're referencing: they're not wrong. Magic's story/universe is absolute garbage compared to the IPs we'll soon be dipping into. Additionally, the mythos that Magic -does- have is that multiple universes exist and the player/planeswalkers pull creatures and spells through time and space to use them to do battle. Dipping into other IPs is 100% unequivocally exactly what Magic is already about, and arguments to the contrary are disingenuous and misinformed at best.