WotC: White can't do XYZ, that would be a color-pie break.
White: Please sir, something, anything!
WotC: Our hands are tied.
Blue: *laughs in Ascendant Spirit*
Red: *laughs in Tibalt's Trickery*
Black: *laughs in Feed the Swarm*
Green: *laughs in literally every green card printed these days*
White: But sir... *points to other colors*
WotC: OUR. HANDS. ARE. TIED.
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Nov 5, 2020Since you've done the legwork of narrowing down what the issue is, allow me to just say it: He's probably just a much better player.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
What you're feeling is frustration at being outplayed, and there's only two real courses of action available to you. Do you...
A) Get angry and allow it to make you bitter, or...
B) Strive to improve so that you can compete with him.
My advice to you is to spend more time watching him when you're playing, and if something seems peculiar or deliberate and you don't understand why he's doing it, just ask. Most good players are more than happy to explain their thought process and play patterns. Chances are, he's just better at sequencing to maximize his mana, or has better threat assessment and as such doesn't waste cards when he doesn't need to, or hell maybe he's just subtly politicking his way through games and you're not catching it.
Whatever the case, the best thing you can do is figure out why you're losing and attack it instead of worrying about how it makes you feel. Don't address the symptoms, address the cause.
Oct 18, 2020Juice, you're just banging your head against a wall there. I blocked and reported that dude a while ago, either he's completely unhinged or a dedicated troll, and your efforts to apply logic to the situation are just going to wear you out while he simply finds another way to weasel around what you say to support his own points.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Trust me, I know from experience, you're better off not interacting with people like that. For your own sanity.
Nov 3, 2020Cranky posted a message on [CMR] Esior, Hullbreacher, and Mana Drain reprint— Hareruyamtg previewsChildren, children, why argue? You can just play Hullbreacher, Opposition Agent, and Notion Thief all in the same deckPosted in: The Rumor Mill
Oct 31, 2020I'm always confused by the way people who hate every new card that comes out use the phrase 'no one asked for this' and its permutations. Like, are we only OK with them printing exactly the cards we tell them to? What's the logic there? And what cards does the format 'need?' Is this just a vote for 'no change?' I think that's pretty boring, and would definitionally result in the death of the game.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
FWIW I'm happy this card exists, because it is kind of exciting in the right build but definitely not going to break anything realistically. Powerful new cards that take a little work to make happen get the motor running. Lotus is absolutely not correct in every build, which is exactly the mistake in card evaluation that is driving the presale price into completely untenable territory, but it'll be awesome in the decks that want it if it is drawn early.
More and more it feels like maybe I'm the crazy one for enjoying the game and getting hyped for new cards.
Oct 30, 2020Yeah, its situationally broken but pretty tame on average. I'm going to jam a copy in my Najeela and Korvold decks because they're conducive to abusing it, but other than that my other decks dgaf.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
Sol Ring is a better card.
Oct 16, 2020I mean, it makes perfect sense that you haven't been much exposed to the verbal abuse being slung about by people who are irrationally upset by this SL. All of the bullying has been pretty focused and one-sided. I made the mistake of posting a supportive comment on one of the Facebook ads, and the replies jumped immediately to homophobic slurs and ad hominem. As nasty as people have been here, social media is much worse. I can only imagine the toxicity and death threats that WotC and the RC have been getting. If Jimmy is rattled by the ***** being slung his way, it has to be a thousand times worse for them. The mob has so much free time and so little perspective or human empathy O.oPosted in: Commander (EDH)
Oct 11, 2020Just to chime in on the 'Magic is dying' bit: No. Magic is doing great. They literally cannot get enough product to us fast enough. We couldn't fill all of our Jumpstart or Zendikar Rising preorders because distributors shorted us on our shipments due to demand wildly outstripping supply. I get a fatpack from every new set and I can't even find one right now.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Is it doing as well as it was prior to Covid? Of course not, this is a global pandemic and overall spending on luxury items is down. It is by no means in danger though.
Oct 7, 2020Posted in: The Rumor MillQuote from DanzBorin »While TWD crossover does nothing for me, I don't mind them. I'd rather they be silver border or reprinted soon after in a regular set as non-crossed over cards.
That said, I'm a sucker for Castlevania, so if you get me Alucard, Trevor, Sypha, Dracula, etc. I'm a happy camper. Would love to make Castlevania EDH decks.
Gimme Richter and I'll be SO obnoxious by saying his name in the Smash Bros. announcer voice every time.
Oct 5, 2020Posted in: Magic GeneralQuote from TheOnlyOne652089 »So far i could buy basically all the singles i am interested in for each set for just around 50 bucks , even foils, Magic was never cheaper as its now, if you dodge and avoid all the fancy "expensive" special products that nobody really needs anyway
I think it is important to highlight this. All of the whale-hunting and niche-filling they're doing makes the game DRAMATICALLY less expensive for the average player. The average player wins. The whales win(?). Those niche players win. WotC wins.
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Nov 3, 2020Posted in: The Rumor MillQuote from hoffmkr »Is this on short list of best EQ ever?
Cheaper than swords and protection from everything you want except yourself.
Except it's not good in commanders with 3 mana or more. Good chance it's pretty much irrelevant.
It's okay in 2 color decks, better in mono, and great in colorless. I wouldn't put that on a short list of best equipment.
Oct 18, 2020Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from Cranky »Juice, you're just banging your head against a wall there. I blocked and reported that dude a while ago, either he's completely unhinged or a dedicated troll, and your efforts to apply logic to the situation are just going to wear you out while he simply finds another way to weasel around what you say to support his own points.
Trust me, I know from experience, you're better off not interacting with people like that. For your own sanity.
Yeah, his doubling down tends to lead to longer and longer posts trying to defend his lack of substance and relevancy as he starts scraping the bottom of the barrel trying not to sound daft.
Oct 18, 2020Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from DirkGently »You aren’t making any counter arguments - I make a point, and then you say it’s ridiculous without explaining why.
Okay, here we go. Let's keep in mind that you said "Commander is the only context.
1) It's a blatantly predatory business model. "If you miss a drop, it's gone forever" or whatever their stupid slogan is. They're obviously preying on peoples' FOMO to sell these things, because people are worried they might want it later and the price will skyrocket. It's the same psychologically manipulative tactics that mobile games have been "pioneering" in an effort to force people to part with their money as effectively as possible. This was semi-acceptable with reprints since at least those cards were already available at whatever the price was, but with these, there's really no telling where the price will go.
Irrelevant to Commander. The format is littered with cards that are largely unaccessible and yet the format continues to grow and do well. Further to this point, Commander is an incredibly proxy friendly format for this very reason. Whether or not this is a "Predatory business model" is irrelevant to Commander, specifically when it comes to the discussion of "Should these cards be banned?" - which I will remind you, is kind of the centerpiece of this entire thread. This, is the first example of you straw-manning.
2) The price is extortionary. Ignoring the tokens because who gives a damn, you're paying $10 per card, assuming you're in a place where you don't have to pay import taxes or whatever else. That's a price we're used to because of the singles market, but the reason some singles are worth $10+ is because of all the many, many, many cards that AREN'T worth that much. For every $10 piece of cardboard WotC produces for a penny, they make hundreds of worthless cards for the same cost, and leave it to the secondary market to sort out what is worth what. By straight-up selling cards for $10, they're putting in almost zero effort and blatantly ripping players off.
Also, irrelevant to Commander, as well as this thread. See the above counterpoint as to why.
3) There is already a precedent for crossovers in magic, in fact there have been two: silver border cards, which almost everyone I've met is happy to allow in a game of casual commander so long as they aren't being abused, and the godzilla "alt-art" versions from Ikoria. Either of these would have been acceptable to most people, but they didn't do either - because if they did alt-arts, then they wouldn't be able to prey on FOMO because most people would just pick them up in a normal version, and if they did silver-border, then players wouldn't consider them "real cards" and so they wouldn't feel it as necessary to pick them up and they won't sell as many copies (likely only fans of TWD would pick them up, which imo ought to be the goal anyway). It's a blatantly greedy move to push the cards without regard for how players are going to feel about them.
I don't know what a silver border has to do with it, other than making it illegal for use in Commander. Which kind of runs contradictory to your statements and issues further on, which suggest that the problem is that these cards are legal everywhere... Once again, the context here has nothing to do with Commander. You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder as to how collectables in this game should be handled, and it is rather arbitrary when it comes to Commander and the playability of the format with these cards existing within it.
4) Having non-magic IP, especially modern day real-world-adjacent IP, forced into the game is annoying and immersion breaking. Personally I'm a little luke-warm on this point since I'd be happy to see, for example, a set based around lord of the rings or some similarly venerable IP, but as someone who watched the first 3-4 seasons of TWD, it's a garbage show that gets way more marketing push than it deserves. Having TWD cards forced into the the game feels like an advertisement for a commercial product, not a fun flavor change.
As I had said before, you are talking about how rare these cards are and how that rarity is a cash grab move, but then you seem to suggest that they are common enough to impact the immerson of games across the globe. Your complaints about this product, really appear to be hyperbole. Is this product too rare for most players to get, or is it too common that the IP bleed is going to cause mass exodus in the format? Which is it?
5) Selling these cards online only cuts out the LGS, which are already struggling significantly thanks to the pandemic, and certainly haven't been helped by the advent of arena either. It's a move that feels like it's focused on the short-term gains of "cutting out the middle-man", but at the sacrifice of the long-term health of paper play.
Your 4th instance of being completely irrelevant to Commander.
6) These aren't available in all regions, which isn't fair to players in those regions (I'm also lukewarm on this point since I don't think anyone should buy them).
See Spoiler for "Your Point #4.
7) If they ever become tournament viable - probably not this batch, but who knows with future batches - not only might that cause a catastrophic price surge, but it also might mean that high-level magic play is being dominated by Mickey Mouse or whatever other cringy IP WotC is shilling for.
Pretty bold doomsday claim here. Just because they are showcasing collectable cross-IP promotions, doesn't mean they won't be protecting their brand. We are seeing more on-brand products for Commander this year, than ever before. WOTC knows how popular this format is, and they know that it didn't surge because of My Little Pony cards or Godzilla cards. Hasbro has a pretty invested interest in carrying the MTG IP, which is evident by the surge in on-brand product over the last few years.
8) Probably the most minor note, but I guess Negan has done some bad stuff on the show (beyond the expected murder and whatnot) to where it might be kinda weird to play him as a commander - like imagine if Jeffrey Epstein was a commander. No clue, I finally gave up right about the time he was introduced and at this point I refuse to care about TWD on principle.
Conflating the representation of a character killing people in a post-apocalyptic fictional story, to the representation of an actual person who has sexually exploited women, is a pretty poor argument as to why these cards should not exist. Your last few points really appear to be drummed up because you are scraping the bottom of the barrel
[/quote]most importantly, these set a TERRIBLE precedent for what could happen in the future. Tons of crossovers with awful IPs (someone's mentioned fortnite is possible...just shoot me), the potential for legacy-viable cards, or maybe even standard-legal cards, or even just powerful commanders that become must-haves, at extortionary prices that cut out LGSs while they bleed commander players dry. Some of those are more slippery-slopey than others, but the additional IPs is basically confirmed by WotC. If this was a one-and-done product I'd be annoyed but I'd get over it, but I think this is likely to be the beginning of the end for what we once called magic - and I don't say that lightly. I've never felt this way before in almost twenty years of playing, in fact I've usually defended WotC. But this is completely different, and if we don't do something about it, this game is going to go downhill very quickly.
See spoiler for "Your Pont #7.
I think things like this are gauged on how players ultimately receive them. So I will end this string of talking points with this - I think it is perfectly okay for people to be turned off by this IP bleed. I think it is cringy as hell, I really disliked the Godzilla cards as well. However, that is a poor excuse for exaggerating the situation and blowing it out of proportion. It is okay to be vocal about it, I have been on numerous reddit threads sharing my distaste for cards like this. But you have taken an issue not really relevant to Commander, and raided this thread and touted that "Commander is the only context." When really, none of your points are specific to Commander and whether or not the RC should ban these cards or if players should try and find an alternative to the RC.
If you’re not interested in engaging with the substance of the discussion then I’m not interested in trying to communicate with you.
THIS, right here, is why you look so silly. I gave all of these counterpoints in previous posts and you became so defensive that you don't even acknowledge them as counterpoints. You have thrown not only context out the window - but also logic and reason. The breakdown in this conversation (and thread) isn't from me, my man, it is from you. I suggest you learn to keep yourself a bit more grounded.
Oct 5, 2020Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from DirkGently »I think you've completely missed the point. This is not a question about me personally, and it's not really about these products specifically either. It's about the direction this game is headed as a whole, and how WotC is treating its customers.
I don't think I missed the point at all. People are clamoring about making a new RC and canceling Commander and the RC in favor of Captain...
I asked WHY, and your response seems to either have nothing to do with the situation as it pertains to Commander, or they are naive points. I think it is as cringe as the next guy, but this discussion of canceling the RC and Commander is pretty rediculous.
WotC's predatory model here isn't bad because I personally might miss out, or worry about missing out. It's bad because it's simply morally wrong. There are many people out there - and while do I have these tendencies, personally I can keep them in check in this instance - who are going to see a product that's only available for a short time and decide they have to buy it, not because they actually want it, but because they're worried they might want it later. And in particular the structure of MtG makes they predatory practice really powerful, because unlike a limited edition figurine or whatever, not just the value but also the function of these cards could change with the release of future cards. Maybe Rick doesn't look legacy viable now, but maybe WotC makes some really pushed human tribal cards in the future and suddenly he's an in-demand 3-of for a top-tier legacy deck. There's also such a short window between the announcement and the "gotta buy it right now" window that there's not much time to test these cards with proxies, for players who might want to do some research for buying, or who just might want more time to think it over. Most cards are easily available for years before supplies start to dry up, which gives plenty of time for those cards to be tested and proven in various formats - whether that's a competitive format or casual commander. With these, you've gotta buy 'em RIGHT NOW BUY THEM RIGHT NOW OR YOU'LL NEVER HAVE THEM. And who knows what the next set will look like, or the next, or the next? It took WotC TWO unique BaB promos to screw up and make one standard-competitive. We're just going to hope that doesn't happen again, except potentially much worse, this time? They're playing with fire here, fire they've proven they cannot control, and they're doing it out of greed, pure and simple. It's wrong and they know it's wrong.
Yet this isn't new. People have been dealing with card availability in MTG since... forever. People will meet this situation as they always have in the format... just proxy them. Exclusivity is nothing new to the game, the only difference is that now it isn't driven by the secondary market. Plenty of companies market on this axis without being called predatory, so why is MTG unable to do the same without receiving backlash?
I don't necessarily mind IP bleed as much as most - I love seeing pop culture alters for the most part (I've got an genie transforming abu alter of [[pongify]] for example), I'm happy to play against silver-bordered cards, and I love P3k - in fact I wish they did more similar things, because I really don't give a crap about the MtG story or characters and everything I read from it makes me cringe. But The Walking Dead is, imo, a very very poor choice of crossover IP for a couple reasons:
1) It takes place in a near-real-world, and the cards depict real human actors. This is way more jarring to me than any Kaiju.
2) More importantly, TWD is a currently running commercial product, and WotC partnering with them is essentially selling us advertisements for that show. That is a huge difference between, say, P3K which afaik isn't shilling for any Chinese history books. Luckily I'm not super interested in the design of any of these cards, but if I were, I'd be very bothered by being forced to run one themed around another commercial property like TWD. Sure, Godzilla technically is too, but I sure haven't seen any movies advertised for Spacegodzilla or Mechagodzilla or whatever. They're old enough to feel like general cultural consciousness, and not something trying to sell itself right now. And more importantly they're available in normal "magic" versions so I'm not forced to play with them, and I don't (except death corona because that's too gold to pass up).
3) Less importantly, The Walking Dead is just the worst show. It blows my mind that people still watch that dreck and think it's actually good. Season 1 was mediocre and then season 2 was already unforgivably bad in so many ways - boring, contrived, nonsensical, boring, poorly-written, under-budgeted, boring, and with few, if any, redeeming characters. If this was a crossover with a property I had even a modicum of respect for, I'd be a lot more conflicted, but there are few shows I have less respect for than TWD. Thirteen Reasons Why, there we go, I found one. If they partner with 13RW I will throw my magic collection off a bridge.
The product is limited to the point where I think these complaints are just kind of ridiculous to draw the conclusion that they are ruining the game. You are talking about the exclusiveness of the product while simultaneously advocating that it is going to heavily permeate MTG to the point where it is shoved in everyone's face. Talk about speaking in hyperbole.
By making these cards TWD, they're saying that if I want to play these cards, I have to support the walking dead and play with cards that have their names and images on them. That is a massive barf from me. As mentioned, none of these hugely appeal (I guess I might want to try Negan out? But it's certainly not a pressing need) but who knows what the future might hold with future lairs that might have more interesting mechanics with flavor I dislike? I also don't relish the idea of getting my ass kicked by Ronald McDonald because they pushed their mcdonalds crossover to hell and back. Silver border lets me say "no", black border does not.
You know what else lets you say "no"? Curating a playgroup like people did when EDH first got off the ground. I am unsure why so many people seem to think that you have to play the format in an open table setting as opposed to a kitchen table style setting in which the format was birthed. It is rather comical whilst being very confusing.
All that said, I'm certainly not calling for deposing the RC. I wish they had banned them, and I think they should have, but I do understand their reasoning - a banlist really isn't the "proper" way to prevent these things from happening. I happen to think it's still an effective way, and that when faced with the potential ruination of the format, efficacy is more important that decorum, but I don't think they should get removed for their opinion, definitely not.
I still have not seen a single justifiable reason for banning them. Being cringe isn't really a valid reason. Ruining the format is a pretty bold claim.
Oct 5, 2020Posted in: The Rumor Mill
So, what does this have to do with Stoneforge Mystic? Yes, it gives you a tutor for it but we can already do that for cheaper. Yes, it'll let you put it onto the battlefield for 1W instead of 1B and gives you a creature you can equip with it, but you're talking 8 mana split over two turns for this. Batterskull was good with stoneforge because it gave you a creature the equipment was already equipped to. Now, Stonehewer Giant gets around those problems, but why wouldn't you want Colossus Hammer, Argentum Armor, even Batterskull over this? I mean it's a cute card I'd like to slide into a commander deck occasionally because I like the flavor, but I see no reason why it's powerful. Now, it is powerful enough for me to enjoy since it does something I'd like to do at a decent enough rate, but just like the other cards, I see absolutely nothing to be worried about. We're talking formats with every Magic card ever printed. Cards either have to cost less mana or do something you can't do with other cards to be competitive.Quote from rowanalpha »Quote from leslak »https://twitter.com/nessameowmeow/status/1312960832238575618?s=20
That thing is kinda of playable, not that good but if people wants to make a point and play one or more in legacy than this equipment could be the offender.
Its Legendary, so multiples are less good. Equip 4 is a little high, but Stoneforge does exist.
Oct 4, 2020Posted in: The Rumor MillQuote from Card Slinger J »Never thought I'd actually see the day that EDH / Commander would be in an existential crisis
It’s not. Commander is fine. Just take a deep breath and get off the internet for a while (sound advice for all of us!).
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