This doesn't seem to solve any sort of problem, and would go a long way towards stigmatizing players with expensive decks which is already an enormous problem in the EDH community. Sounds like a lose-lose proposition, not sure why anyone would pick up this proposed format other than to pull from thin air an argument to bully specific players out of the playgroup.
There is no veracity to that rumor at all. As others have said, this rumor constantly circulates, and if there was any confirmation about the absolution of it, we would be hearing more specific details. Any rumor that states "The Reserved List may be abolished soon" without any specific details or coming from a well-known person in the MTG community should be considered nonsense.
My guess, like every other decision they make, is money.
In a roundabout way, yes. The situation can be broken down as such:
1) WotC made a completely non-binding promise not to reprint the cards on the list
2) WotC, as was their right, went back on that promise repeatedly via editing the list and using 'loopholes' to reprint cards
3) WotC wanted to revisit the list one last time in order to abolish it
4) WotC consulted with members of the community as well as their corporate lawyers to see what people wanted as well as what was legally allowed
5) The community as a whole came out in favor of abolition
6) WotC, without further explanation, said that they would not ever be touching the list again and that they were not allowed to say why
Some additional information about the legal situation:
1) Folks throw around the term 'Promissory Estoppel' as a reason that people might sue WotC over abolition of the list. Definition: "Within contract law, promissory estoppel refers to the doctrine that a party may recover on the basis of a promise made when the party's reliance on that promise was reasonable, and the party attempting to recover detrimentally relied on the promise." In other words, if people made investments based on the idea that they'd never lose value because the cards couldn't be reprinted, they could sue.
2) This concept is a joke and would be thrown out in court, specifically in this case because removing the reserved list would actually increase the value of most peoples' collections due to increased interest (as shown repeatedly with high-value reprints of incredibly low-supply cards), and more often than not original printings of cards hold value regardless of reprints because of their collectible status. The key bit in proving Promissory Estoppel is that there ACTUALLY HAS TO BE FINANCIAL DAMAGE, which would not occur outside of a small window where the investors themselves panic dump their positions and temporarily deflate prices before they skyrocket back up due to renewed interest. The plaintiffs would also need to have kept detailed records and prove intent to rely upon said promise. There is 0% chance anyone would win such a case.
3) Corporate lawyers are not paid to win court cases. They are paid to keep a company out of court entirely.
4) Regardless of the 100% chance that WotC would win any litigation regarding the reserved list, they would in fact have to go to court in the first place which is a big no-no for corporate lawyers.
5) Corporate lawyers almost always have clauses in their contracts to prevent their clients from citing them in business decisions, for fear of a bad decision (like the one in question here) following them through their career.
If you piece all of the above together, regardless of how good it would be for the game, a Hasbro lawyer said 'no' and now WotC has to suck it up and they can't even come out and tell us why due to contracts. Meanwhile, investors get to make free money with no downside risk, soaking up large chunks of the supply do the detriment of the player base.
I'd be down for some other new 'big card' format, hell the best of the best has always been Vanguard, bring that back why don'tcha! It was basically commander before commander, I'm sure it would be a huge success if they started slowly reprinting them with some new additions.
If we bring Vanguard back, everybody will just play Titania or Tawnos, because they are the most powerful, immediate and most versatile vanguards ever for every type of deck. All the other ones are unplayable garbage compared to them. I know because I tested Vanguards with friends for years and literally everybody always choose Titania or Tawnos in the end.
Eventually I solved by making more balanced and fun custom vanguards myself, because the existing ones are either unplayable or so broken everybody just choose the same all the time for all the decks.
If WotC ever bring back Vanguard it needs an official banlist and new cards that are actually balanced but worth to play
I can dig it. You're right that the original batch were pretty unbalanced and probably not playtested lol.
Please god no, Planechase is a nightmare and once the novelty wears off everyone who has ever tried it grows to hate it. Deckbuilding and skill are completely negated and it becomes all about who rolls better and which random plane helps who the most. I collected every deck to acquired every plane as they were released, including promos, and I can say unequivocally that there hasn't been a worse variant format to date.
Agreed...
games fall into one of two catagories... Either the plane doesn't really mater at all and it was all a waste of time/mana or... someone gets a 7/7 annihilate 1 on turn 1 (or a legendary eldrazi or similar from their deck) and kirbstomps the table... or in a 'good' case the turn order gets reversed just before the player to go last gets their turn on the second or third time around the table... and has no fun at all...
or something goes really wrong and everyone loses there hand or something super early (before some players even get a turn).
All of the worst games of magic I have played were Planechase games...
I would rather see Archenemy or Horde come back, or something new.
Almost exactly my experience with it. Archenemy is honestly fine, but its impossible to balance for even a modest range of power levels. At low power levels the archenemy is a god, while at moderate to high they're a joke.
I'd be down for some other new 'big card' format, hell the best of the best has always been Vanguard, bring that back why don'tcha! It was basically commander before commander, I'm sure it would be a huge success if they started slowly reprinting them with some new additions.
did something hit your head i seen slivers win less than 3 turns i know because 1 i play them 2 i seen it from other players.
They said "most popular in casual," which is definitely true. They're a very small portion of the competitive meta in a couple formats, but quite popular outside tournaments.
Slivers are the definition of 'tribe casual players are obsessed with,' specifically in that they're the epitome of the style of gameplay where if your opponent doesn't interact with you or do something powerful, you just kinda get to go off. The stuff of dreams for Timmys the world over, hence the wildly inflated prices for key pieces. I've known a few sliver EDH players, and if they get left alone they become pretty inexorable but a well-placed piece of interaction or (god forbid) a wrath makes them leave the game immediately.
Please god no, Planechase is a nightmare and once the novelty wears off everyone who has ever tried it grows to hate it. Deckbuilding and skill are completely negated and it becomes all about who rolls better and which random plane helps who the most. I collected every deck to acquired every plane as they were released, including promos, and I can say unequivocally that there hasn't been a worse variant format to date.
Nope. I've been playing EDH since it came to the contiguous states from Alaska, and online resources have DRAMATICALLY increased the enjoyment people get out of the format. Pretty objectively a positive influence and in no way a problem I'd say.
Sorry, I play interaction in my decks, I know that's not common.
Is it obnoxious when my opponents play Hullbreacher into my Brainstorm or in combination with a wheel? Well yeah, that's the idea. Not going to cry like an infant when someone interacts with my card draw or plays a combo that doesn't even end the game, especially when a single piece of removal or a counterspell stops it neatly.
Card is good. Card was fun to play and play against. Card will be missed.
(Card should've definitely been white though, yes)
The Professor puts some of the comments about this product in a much more eloquent way (in this video) and why many of us here, me included, do not look forward to these products or the direction the game is going.
It's a great video, and made me think a lot about the capitalistic angle. My main reason for not feeling UB was the immersion element, it just not 'feeling' right, but the closer examination of UB as a business practice really made me look at it in that light. We have heard "MtG is dead/dying" arguments for decades, though I can appreciate what makes this particular scenario different and why there's a lot of pessimism around UB's impact on the game.
I generally find that Brian, <mod snip>, is not a good endorsement to have for your side of a discussion :/
UB will bring more players into the game, and make WotC more money so that they can pay the people who make this game we all love. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to buy it, but a lot of people will and there's nothing wrong with that.
Just assume these are MTG cards with an Orica over them.
It just annoys me that Kamigawa or water world or other MTG-specific requests require all these hoops but UB isn't a problem. Money talks I suppose. But it doesn't bother me. I doubt they'll incorporate a franchise I like. We'll see. Should have known Secret Lair would get us here.
Speaking specifically to Kamigawa, I think that Maro mentioned somewhere that the plane polled INCREDIBLY poorly from a flavor standpoint (and not just because the cards were bad) so they're pretty loathe to revisit it. IIRC there was a rumor floating around about them revamping it to be a Japanese cyber-punk world or sommat but I don't remember if it was verified at all.
Nah it's the card mechanics in the block, regardless what they say. because how many would actually build decks with those mechanics after that block went to extended if those mechanics in those cards are really good.
The mechanics in Kamigawa were terrible compare to what before it and after it. If those mechanics were decent you would seen a lot of those cards in play after the format were it belong rotated, but no. It's terrible.
I love samurai but the mechanic are the worst they are the bottom tier.. compare that to equipment, soldiers, clerics, rebel, kor, boros and etc.
Samurai were supposed to be cooler than clerics if were talking about themes but the mechanic were terrible
The probably worth salvaging in that tribal was pale curtain, which has the same case to jutun grunt from another terrible set also like coldsnap.
Snake tribal, Oni tribal? SoulShift? Bushido? Offering? Shrine? Epic? those mechanics were dead on arrival even if they were on cards with art and names like part of the medieval or steampunk settings/theme. Those card with those mechanics isn't fun to play with even outside it's block nobody take them seriously not because of being japanese themed but they are terrible in play.
Nobody liked to build deck seriously with those mechanics after it rotated from standard compare to other block which Kamigawa era like Mirrodin, Onslaught, Ravnica and Alara.
Ninjutsu probably was the only decent mechanic that people still enjoys to play from that block.
Arcane could have also great but it's also lock in that block.
Nononono, their polling indicated that BOTH the cards AND the setting were unpopular.
Just assume these are MTG cards with an Orica over them.
It just annoys me that Kamigawa or water world or other MTG-specific requests require all these hoops but UB isn't a problem. Money talks I suppose. But it doesn't bother me. I doubt they'll incorporate a franchise I like. We'll see. Should have known Secret Lair would get us here.
Speaking specifically to Kamigawa, I think that Maro mentioned somewhere that the plane polled INCREDIBLY poorly from a flavor standpoint (and not just because the cards were bad) so they're pretty loathe to revisit it. IIRC there was a rumor floating around about them revamping it to be a Japanese cyber-punk world or sommat but I don't remember if it was verified at all.
I think the only thing some people are disagreeing about now is how best to demarcate "play with UB" and "play without UB" in casual formats. If there isn't something overtly conspicuous to set them apart, "UB cards are not allowed in our playgroup" is a bit of clunky addition to your ad hoc ban list.
As it should be, really. The default should be 'everyone gets to play with their toys' not 'you specifically don't get to play with your toys,' and the onus should be on the folks trying to deny someone something to make the effort.
Most Magic players play kitchen table Magic. They dont know about formats or set legality. They just know "put cards together in a 60 card deck and play Magic."
I really would like to know where you get your facts from.
What he's saying is... partially true. Kitchen table is 100% the most popular format, hands down, according to WotC's market research. That said, kitchen table magic is now almost entirely EDH at this point, and people definitely know the rules and legality for EDH It just so happens that silver borders are absolutely not legal in the format, and are unlikely to ever be given that they've already had their chance, making MORE alt-border-not-really-legal cards absolutely not a solution for any problem ever. Rule zero is a joke.
These dark blue borders are a sweet idea. If they were to do something like that, suddenly all my critics would vanish (the holostamp is really not distinctive enough imo).
I'd be fine with them looking like magic cards, being mechanically unique, featuring other IPs, etc... as long as they're part of their own format, and the blue borders would be ideal to notify that.
And just like Silver borders which are sometimes accepted in EDH, you could see some of these cards being played in "normal" EDH if the table is ok.
That'd be a win-win, really. Heck, having Sauron fighting Ronald MacDonald alongside Rick and Spongebob Pants actually sounds like fun, what I DON'T want to see is a Collected Company dropping a Thalia and Bilbo Baggins into play in any of our traditional formats.
The issue with that is the same as with making them silver-bordered: They wouldn't be legal in the format, so the vast majority of people wouldn't want to play with them. Its no solution at all, really.
In a roundabout way, yes. The situation can be broken down as such:
1) WotC made a completely non-binding promise not to reprint the cards on the list
2) WotC, as was their right, went back on that promise repeatedly via editing the list and using 'loopholes' to reprint cards
3) WotC wanted to revisit the list one last time in order to abolish it
4) WotC consulted with members of the community as well as their corporate lawyers to see what people wanted as well as what was legally allowed
5) The community as a whole came out in favor of abolition
6) WotC, without further explanation, said that they would not ever be touching the list again and that they were not allowed to say why
Some additional information about the legal situation:
1) Folks throw around the term 'Promissory Estoppel' as a reason that people might sue WotC over abolition of the list. Definition: "Within contract law, promissory estoppel refers to the doctrine that a party may recover on the basis of a promise made when the party's reliance on that promise was reasonable, and the party attempting to recover detrimentally relied on the promise." In other words, if people made investments based on the idea that they'd never lose value because the cards couldn't be reprinted, they could sue.
2) This concept is a joke and would be thrown out in court, specifically in this case because removing the reserved list would actually increase the value of most peoples' collections due to increased interest (as shown repeatedly with high-value reprints of incredibly low-supply cards), and more often than not original printings of cards hold value regardless of reprints because of their collectible status. The key bit in proving Promissory Estoppel is that there ACTUALLY HAS TO BE FINANCIAL DAMAGE, which would not occur outside of a small window where the investors themselves panic dump their positions and temporarily deflate prices before they skyrocket back up due to renewed interest. The plaintiffs would also need to have kept detailed records and prove intent to rely upon said promise. There is 0% chance anyone would win such a case.
3) Corporate lawyers are not paid to win court cases. They are paid to keep a company out of court entirely.
4) Regardless of the 100% chance that WotC would win any litigation regarding the reserved list, they would in fact have to go to court in the first place which is a big no-no for corporate lawyers.
5) Corporate lawyers almost always have clauses in their contracts to prevent their clients from citing them in business decisions, for fear of a bad decision (like the one in question here) following them through their career.
If you piece all of the above together, regardless of how good it would be for the game, a Hasbro lawyer said 'no' and now WotC has to suck it up and they can't even come out and tell us why due to contracts. Meanwhile, investors get to make free money with no downside risk, soaking up large chunks of the supply do the detriment of the player base.
I can dig it. You're right that the original batch were pretty unbalanced and probably not playtested lol.
Almost exactly my experience with it. Archenemy is honestly fine, but its impossible to balance for even a modest range of power levels. At low power levels the archenemy is a god, while at moderate to high they're a joke.
I'd be down for some other new 'big card' format, hell the best of the best has always been Vanguard, bring that back why don'tcha! It was basically commander before commander, I'm sure it would be a huge success if they started slowly reprinting them with some new additions.
Slivers are the definition of 'tribe casual players are obsessed with,' specifically in that they're the epitome of the style of gameplay where if your opponent doesn't interact with you or do something powerful, you just kinda get to go off. The stuff of dreams for Timmys the world over, hence the wildly inflated prices for key pieces. I've known a few sliver EDH players, and if they get left alone they become pretty inexorable but a well-placed piece of interaction or (god forbid) a wrath makes them leave the game immediately.
Is it obnoxious when my opponents play Hullbreacher into my Brainstorm or in combination with a wheel? Well yeah, that's the idea. Not going to cry like an infant when someone interacts with my card draw or plays a combo that doesn't even end the game, especially when a single piece of removal or a counterspell stops it neatly.
Card is good. Card was fun to play and play against. Card will be missed.
(Card should've definitely been white though, yes)
I generally find that Brian, <mod snip>, is not a good endorsement to have for your side of a discussion :/
UB will bring more players into the game, and make WotC more money so that they can pay the people who make this game we all love. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to buy it, but a lot of people will and there's nothing wrong with that.
Nononono, their polling indicated that BOTH the cards AND the setting were unpopular.
Speaking specifically to Kamigawa, I think that Maro mentioned somewhere that the plane polled INCREDIBLY poorly from a flavor standpoint (and not just because the cards were bad) so they're pretty loathe to revisit it. IIRC there was a rumor floating around about them revamping it to be a Japanese cyber-punk world or sommat but I don't remember if it was verified at all.
As it should be, really. The default should be 'everyone gets to play with their toys' not 'you specifically don't get to play with your toys,' and the onus should be on the folks trying to deny someone something to make the effort.
What he's saying is... partially true. Kitchen table is 100% the most popular format, hands down, according to WotC's market research. That said, kitchen table magic is now almost entirely EDH at this point, and people definitely know the rules and legality for EDH
The issue with that is the same as with making them silver-bordered: They wouldn't be legal in the format, so the vast majority of people wouldn't want to play with them. Its no solution at all, really.