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  • posted a message on [4 Card Modern] Round 13 due 1/21
    Quote from tomsloger »

    11. thatmarkguy
    Swamp / Horrifying Revelation / Simian Spirit Guide / Ravenous Rats
    6-0 i think. i see a line of play where mark can get rid of elixir, but i get a 3/3 to his 1/1. there may be another line of play, but i dont see it


    I've got it as 3-3. When I'm on the play, I'll cast Ravenous Rats on T1. You have to pitch something. Assuming you want to fire elixir at some point you probably want to hold your lands and the elixir so you pitch beast within. On your turn you play... Darksteel Citadel and Elixir, likely. Then on my T2 I play my other discard spell and away goes your Simic Growth Chamber.

    Elixir costs 2 to activate. There's no way your Simic Growth Chamber lands (permanently) when I'm on the play and I can make you discard twice before your second turn. Unless all you play is lands and you pitch your Elixir, which is also a win for me.

    When you're on the play you've got me. The best I can do is getting rid of your elixir after one Beast Within firing (1. Citadel Elixir - Rats cause you to discard Beast; 2. SGT bounce Citadel - I do nothing; 3. You fire elixir and shuffle, I choose the 'random' result of Beast on top, you draw and cast Beast - I HorrifyRev the Elixir off your deck into grave), as your 3/3 beast overwhelms my 1/1 rat.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on Primer Decks: 10-Land Stompy (Lowland Stompy)
    Here to ask the question every deck is asking in late 2014 - can Treasure Cruise fit here? Or more generally, can Khans delve cards, be it Treasure Cruise for card reload, Hooting Mandrills for another big stomper at low actual-paid-mana cost, or Become Immense for a giant Giant Growth at similarly low actual mana cost... work in LLS?

    My thinking is that versions of this deck that run a lot of 'free' cards like Land Grant, Invigorate, Mutagenic Growth, and Bounty of the Hunt can very quickly have quite a number of cards in the grave as Delve fuel (and the deck could be made to run forestfetches if further delve fuel was desired). Rogue Elephant builds also make delve fuel. (of course this flavor of deck would have to reject Dryad Militant).

    Of course, too many Delve cards just get in each others' way - which is another reason why Bounty of the Hunt works well here, you could pitch excess green delve cards as Bounty cost.

    I'm trying out two Mandrills in an LLS build I'm tweaking today, we'll see if they land in good time or not.
    Posted in: Casual Primers
  • posted a message on Ugin, The Spirit Dragon - Uncomfirmed
    Are we sure "The first time a card refers to itself it must use its full card title" is still a guiding principle? It wasn't for the 15 Theros gods.

    Quote from pizzap »
    @ Ultimate ability: Since when do you cast "Cards" and not "Spells"? I am quite sure it must be "Planeswalker spells" and not cards.


    Narset, Enlightened Master casts cards.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [4 Card Modern] Round 13 due 1/21
    Non-score affecting nitpick:
    Quote from Heinsun »
    Heinsun vs
    Sand_Crab: 6-0, Needle hits Lotus or Pulse hits Form.


    Pithing Needle can't hit Lotus Bloom; suspend is not an activated ability, and the mana ability... is a mana ability, which Needle can't prevent.

    But you do 6-0 anyway because you are in fact able to Maelstrom Pulse the Form of the Dragon.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on [4 Card Modern] Round 13 due 1/21
    My scoreline as I see it:

    v1: 6-0. I Lush Growth a Cloudpost and d1 never has the 4 mana for Eater.
    v2: 0-6. D2 Lush Growths my Inkmoth denying my wincon; I can only lush out either Burnwillows lifegain punishing fire recursion or inkmoth, but not both, and the one I don't shut down kills me.
    v3: 2-2. I lush out the Rot Farm, d3 Needles out my Inkmoth, neither of us has a wincon anymore.
    v4: 6-0. I Lush the slagheap on T3 and attack for 2-3-3-3 poison on turns 3-4-5-6 and win on my T6. Without Slagheap gaining counters, the best d4 can do is cast Braid on T2, then start casting upkeep Beacons from T6. But being forced to spend that Braid mana in upkeep ensures inability to kill my Inkmoth.
    v5: 6-0. D5 casts Form on T4 and theoretically would kill on T8. I can deal lethal poison on my T6.
    v6: 0-6. D6 plays T1 Blinkmoth, T2 Dimir Aqueduct, T3 Scepter imprinted, then from T4 is ready to Geth every turn. Whether I Lush the Nexus or the Aqueduct doesn't really help me, and I only get to deal 6 poison (on the play) before I can no longer afford to activate Inky, and Geth's eventually kills me anyway.
    v7: 6-0. Ratchet Bomb's nonland clause keeps my land threat safe (too bad Powder Keg isn't modern legal). Inky romps.
    v9: 6-0. As above, Inky deals lethal poison on T6. The best overseers can do by T6 is 16 points damage.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on [4 Card Modern] Round 13 due 1/21
    Yeah, you're missing that Lush Growth makes the land plainsforestmountain *instead of what it was*, not in addition to. When I lush growth your rot farm, it's now a land that can only produce one mana per turn and that's not black nor blue. So you can't cast maelstrom and you can't usefully activate the treetop village. Needling my inkmoth makes it a 2-2 draw.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on [4 Card Modern] Round 13 due 1/21
    Why *is* it "Clasic" rather than "Classic", anyway? Smile

    I applied tom's correction on the match v me; tom's correction v whamme isn't applied nor noted on the table; neither is door's correction v mqj (as described at NGA). If those changes apply and stand, there'll be a grand total of one point separating 1st from 4th (2 31s and 2 30s).
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on [4 Card Modern] Round 13 due 1/21
    Quote from tomsloger »
    results for:
    6. thatmarkguy
    Gemstone Mine / Chancellor of the Tangle / Bitterblossom / Sundering Vitae
    listed 0-6, should be 6-0
    sundering vitae cant actually get rid of elixir unless i dont have mana up to activate it because if you kill it in response to activation, it just shuffles into my library from the graveyard. so i cast and activate the same turn always.


    (face_palm)

    Hadn't considered that, but indeed that is how Elixir works. Needed an exile effect. Doh.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on [4 Card Modern] Round 13 due 1/21
    I'll post my playdown too. Wouldve this morning but was sick in bed most of the day.

    I'm deck6

    v1: 6-0. With 1 on the play it plays Lotus Blooms on T1, they get cast on T4 as does Barren Glory, and that wins upkeep of T5. I play Bitterblossom on my T1, and even after the first faerie I get on T2 gets gutshotted, the faeries I get on T3 and T4 allow me to convoke out the Sundering Vitae and pop Barren Glory.

    v2: 3-3. As covered above, the Leylines make my faeries bigger too, which allows me to stabilize and overcome on the play, but not on the draw.

    v3: 3-3. With 3 on the play, 3 plays Liquimetal Coating on T2, and can Grudge my Bitterblossom on 3's T3, while I only have one faerie. I can never cast Sundering Vitae, and Mutavault wrecks me. With me on the play, I can SVitae the Liquimetal Coating after it gets cast but before it can get used-with-grudge (because I get my second Faerie on my T3), then I keep two Faeries at home (including the summoning sick one) to scare off Mutavault while I attack with the rest ... dealing 1-2-3-4-5-6 turns 4-5-6-7-8-9, taking 8 points of damage from Bitterblossom and 2 from the Mutavault that atatcks the turn after I SVitae.

    V4: 6-0. Just like V2, Leyline of the Meek helps my tokens keep pace with goblins. With 4 on the play it attacks for 4 on T1, OI cast bitterblossom, it attacks for 4 on T2, I lose life and get a faerie, it attacks for 2 on t3 as we trade, I lose a life and get another faerie, and 2 turns later I sunder my Bitterblossom and go all victory through air power (leaving one faerie at home if there's still a goblin alive).

    V5: 3-3. If 5 plays first I'm just wrecked by the shoal. If I play first a faerie is in place to block the inkmoth on its intended T2 death swing (and from then on my summoning-sick faerie is always in place for that). The earliest 5 can cast Blasphemous act is on T6 (I have 5 faeries in place and the slagheap has 4 counters on it, (one turn earlier 4 faeries + 3 slagheap + Nexus would be one shy). Even still 5 has taken 1+2+3+4 damage on turns 3-4-5-6, and will take another 1+2+3+4 on turns 8-9-10-11, well becfore Bitterblossom kills me.

    v7: 3-3. Meddling Mage meddles on the play and wrecks me. On the draw I let the Student whack me a few times while I work up an air force, then I start chumping the student every turn with my new faerie while the rest of my force flies over and wreaks havoc.

    v8: 6-0. I play Bitterblossom on T1, and am in position to respond to one of Elixir activations with SVitae then eventually overwhelm with faeries (either keeping 3 back to threaten to kill beast, or just keeping 1 back to chump, either way I overwhelm long before getting in danger).


    v9: 6-0. Funeral charm is ineffective at discard because I can always toss the Chancellor. So it's just a Faerie-killer. I will be able to SVitae the opposing Bitterblossom and then overwhelm thereafter.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on [4 Card Modern] Round 13 due 1/21
    Quote from WhammeWhamme »
    6) thatmarkguy: Simply can't interact favourably. 6-0


    Yes, I can, because your Leylines boost my tokens as well as yours. When I'm on the play you can only slip 9 points of damage past my faerie(s) before I have an equal then superior force. I'll take several points of damage from Bitterblossom but I can Sundering Vitae it myself if it becomes a life-threatening problem after I've established creature superiority.

    On the draw I'm sunk because you get 9 in before my first faerie, 18 before I could stabilize, and Bitterblossom deals me a few points before then too.

    3-3.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on [4 Card Modern] Round 13 due 1/21
    Quote from Parsley »
    5 vs. 8
    marked 6-0 should be 4-1

    Inkmoth Nexus kills turn 11 and 5 can cast Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre on turn 11.


    Can 5 cast Ulamog on T11? Molten Slagheap is a pay-to-store land. It can't get a storage counter on T1 (barring another nonland mana source). If it gets its storage counters on turns 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, then it can be 'tapped' for 9 mana on T11 (I know it technically doesn't tap to discharge, but it does cost 1, and that 1 is usually paid via tapping the land), Urborg makes 1... that's a total of 10, still 1 shy of the 11-drop. As I see it, Ulamog lands on T12. I think that earns you the 2-2, as 5 has to deal with your Nexus which means you will be able to Charm away the redrawn Smallpox play or draw.

    Uhm, but if you're charming away the Smallpox, you're letting the sacced land get recycled and replayed, which means 5 will eventually be able to cast Ulamog. You could charm away the sacced land as it gets drawn, but 5 probably sacced Urborg after charging up a few counters on the 'heap (5 could afford to let Inky swat several times as it worked up a few storage counters), allowing a smallpox play even after discarding Urborg. Hmm. I'm back to thinking the 6-0 was right. You don't even have the same 1-point Funeral Charm play as Rush and I have on the play because you don't have a threat that you can make use of while still being able to respond to Smallpox with Funeral Charm. If you don't attack with inky 5 just stores up for Ulamog; if you do you're not in position to respond to Smallpox with Funeral Charm to force 5 to permanently lose a land.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on [4 Card Modern] Round 13 due 1/21
    Quote from "WhammeWhamme »

    10 vs. thatmarkguy: Smallpox away his board, win. 6-0

    Corrections welcome.


    I've got it 4-1 with me earning a draw when I'm on the play, with this description (noted in spreadsheet):

    Marked 6-0; should be 4-1.

    On the play, 10 plays Chronomaton T1, 5 plays a land. From T2 10 leaves Chronomaton at home and swamp untapped, so that if 5 plays Smallpox 10 responds with Funeral Charm and Ulamog discards+shuffles before land sacs and the deck is neutered down to 1 land in play. So 5 just ratchets up the storage land, and during end phase of 5's turn (once any chance to play Smallpox has passed), 10 ratchets up Chronomaton. If Chronomaton ratchets up 3 times on T2-3-4, it's a 4/4 swinging from T5 that kills on T9, well before 5s storage land can cast Ulamog. So 5 eventually has to play the Smallpox to kill the Chronomaton, 10 responds with Funeral Charm, 5 loses a land for good (because Ulamog shuffles into deck before land gets sacced), and neither deck has a wincon anymore.


    (sigh) SO many decks played black and Evil Presence didn't affect in any meaningful way. I'd have done so much better with the blue equivalent deck (Island - Sea's Claim - Piracy Charm - Chronomaton). Heck, even running a green dual and using Lush Growth would have fared me better.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on Primer Decks: 10-Land Stompy (Lowland Stompy)
    Thanks for the reply! Nice to hear encouraging comments on Warriors' Lesson.

    My baseline template was built around some of this thread's earlier decks with 4x Llanowar and 4x QRanger, which leaves a little more capability for big-mana turns to feed Hero... I agree that in some of the more recent decks that have the 'elves don't stomp enough' philosophy you talk about, this is a lot less tenable. Was thinking of an ideal-draw scenario like T1 Llanowar, T2 Quirion+Hero, then T3 one could hit the Hero with a freecast Mutagenic / Invigorate / Bounty and be able to drop X=4 or 5 into the Heroic trigger, swing for 7 or 8 now and still have a 5/5 when all is done.

    It's true that ESGs can't pay for Myr Superion. The Elves I was talking about that could push out a Superion (as the backup plan, BTE being the ideal method) were of the Llanowar variety or their lookalikes. Much like the scenario above, a T1 Forest + Llanowar Elves can be followed up by a T2 Quirion Ranger and then tap the Llanowar twice (via QRanger) for a Myr Superion.

    My imagined (and admittedly likely unfeasable) LowlandSlivers deck concept was the old 4-grant 4-llanowar 4-Qranger manabase (maybe ESGs too, unsure)... with those 8 green +1/+1 slivers and Experiment One (I've found E1 works great with the MusclePredatory set - barring removal, each successive Sliver enters the battlefield at just the right P/T level to cause E1 to evolve). And the requisite instant P/T boosters of course.

    The thought on Life's Legacy was that it would net a lot more than 2 cards... after attacking with something that got Mutagenic Growth'ed or Bounty of the Hunt'ed or Invigorate'd (or hopefully multiple of the above), firing a 2nd-main Life's Legacy to draw 4, 5, or more cards while that creature's power is at a temporary high, that didn't actually cost you mana-this-turn to get there so the 2-cost of LL doesn't conflict with having had to spend mana to get those temporary P/T boosts.
    Posted in: Casual Primers
  • posted a message on Primer Decks: 10-Land Stompy (Lowland Stompy)
    Evening, guys. Longtime lurker, first time poster. I've been keeping an eye on making a Lowland Stompy variant for a while, and in the past few months a few cards have flashed past me for consideration that I'd like to hear from you more experienced LLS players whether you think there's any viability there.

    I see some sets running Bequeathal for a little extra gas, and that makes me wonder if Warriors' Lesson might serve a similar purpose. This deck will likely be able to have two unblocked attackers get through in short order, and if/when it does, this serves up the same 2-card draw for G as Bequeathal does when it fires.

    An oddball I'd been considering is Hero of Leina Tower - particularly in builds where you have mana-free spells like Mutagenic Growth and Bounty of the Hunt (Invigorate?) targetting your attacking creatures... with the quick excess mana you may have from Elves+Quirion, I could see a T3 or 4 attacking Hero getting huge and staying (somewhat) huge. On the Heroic tip, Heroic countergaining 1-drops like Favored Hoplite and Satyr Hoplite in the appropriate 2-color builds? (This synergizes a bit with the aforementioned Warriors' Lesson and Bounty of the Hunt, which can trigger multiple different heroic creatures in one casting).

    Does the 8-pack of Slivers (Predatory Sliver and Muscle Sliver by the foursome) have any potential in this sort of deck? In GU builds, perhaps 12-sliver including 4 Galerider Slivers?

    I saw some decks running Burning-Tree Emissary into Talara's Battalion - makes me wonder if those decks can make use of Myr Superion - either casting it off a BTE, or 2 Elves, or an Elf tapping twice via Quirion Ranger.

    I'd assume M15's new Sunblade Elf merits consideration in GW builds... particularly ones running 4-Savannah 4-Temple Garden.

    Life's Legacy - potential? I imagine that could be a 4-5-draw for 2 after the typical creature in this deck swings with Mutagenic/Bounty/Invigorate. Particularly good on a creature with Bequeathal, or a short-life-expectancy creature like Skyshroud Ridgeback.


    Feedback appreciated, oh lowland stompy gurus.
    Posted in: Casual Primers
  • posted a message on Born of the Gods Pre-Release Seeded Booster contents
    Quote from Warden
    About to sleep (pre release noon tmrw, didn't do midnight). Dumb question. Can anyone confirm rares being predetermined from a group of X? I am not asking how many combinations. Instead I am taking a step back. The discussion and spreadsheet as of my typing points to speculation more than fact. I am assuming this pre is similar to Gatecrash where certain rares were not possible to pull. Like you couldn't get pack rat in gatecrash pre release. Is this situation the same? thanks guys. great work as always trying to organize all this.


    The assumption about gatecrash may not apply. GTC was a large set with 53 rares. With only 35 rares in seeded boosters (7 non mythic variations per guild) it was mathematically certain for there to be unavailable rares. BNG is a small set - it only has 35 rares, and that includes 2 artifacts and 3 lands. Part of the confusion is people figuring out what they're doing to get UP to 7 non mythic variations of seeded booster when each color only has 6 different rares (one of which is already the promo).
    Posted in: Limited (Sealed, Draft)
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