Any thoughts about trying out the Satyr Wayfinder from BoTG? It acts as another creature for Vengevine while providing some land-grabbing. Might give it a shot.
Gonna try this out on cockatrice when I get home, wondering if anyone has been tinkering with similar things. Constructive critic welcome.
3x Agent of the Fates
3x Pain Seer
3x Spiteful Returned
4x Herald of Torment
4x Tormented Hero
2x Fate Unraveler
4x Retraction Helix
4x Stratus Walk
3x Thoughtseize
2x Hidden Strings
4x Bile Blight
2x Temple of Deceit
4x Watery Grave
7x Island
10x Swamp
-- this is 59 cards. I don't know where to allocate the 60th. 4x Agent of Fates seems excessive, as does Pain Seer and Spiteful Returned. Another solid creature /w Heroic or Inspired to add as maybe a 2x would probably behoove it. Anyways, seems fun. Other possibility is to try and pull of Whispering Madness / Fate Unraveler.
Herald of Torment and the Hero of Leina Tower. I think you could toss in Heralds into the Rakdos aggro shell, move Necromancer to the SB and it would be really competitive. The green dude is ridiculous. Good early and late game.
Nev-
Your totally right. Requiring permanents to make phenax go is a huge downside. But it's also somewhat of an upside, as suddenly,it turns all of your permanents into a tool for potential destruction. Between Ashiok, Jace and Phenax (and therefore all your walls), that's a lot of threats that need answering. You are fortunately playing two excellent colors to protect your permanents.
Just cruised through gatherer.. don't really know what another good 4 drop would be besides maybe a Jace, AoT, for card draw and to pacify aggro more. What are you thinking?
As for sideboarding- what do you bring Far/Away in for? I would maybe just include the 4th Drown in Sorrow, as you are packing a ton of removal already. I also think some number of Duress would be killer against control, as you could effectively neuter their hands turns 1-4.
My current iteration (gonna test with it tonight, excited!)
4x Omenspeaker
4x Wall of Frost
2x Black Oak of Odunos
3x Pain Seer
3x Phenax, God of Deception
2x Drown in Sorrow
3x Bile Blight
4x Hero's Downfall
3x Thoughtseize
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Jace, Memory Adept
6x Island
10x Swamp
4x T o D
4x Watery Grave
I might take out the mainboard Drown in Sorrows and just go with 4 Bile Blights and a Warped Physique. Just pack 3-4 in the sideboard. I'll let you know
Really like your list, messing around with it as a starting point. I actually think Pain Seer might be a solid choice, as I was also considering throwing in 2 of the Black Oak of Blah blah blah and 2 Ashioks MD rather than the Specter. The 3 spot does seem extremely crowded, and that would certainly relieve some pressure. Black Oak seems pretty bad, but I wanted a wall that could also give Disciple of Phenax some devotion.
Anyways, like where your head is at. Also, have you considered mizzium skin for the SB? My original plan for a Phenax deck was to splash green for Golgari or Simic charm as a way to protect my permanents. I suppose enough hand disruption would serve just as well.
Whats up everyone-
Long time lurker, first time poster. Keep it constructive or speculative please. Kicking around ideas here at work.
Creatures:
4x Tormented Hero
4x Pain Seer
3x Agent of the Fates
3x Ashiok's Adept (or maybe the Siren of Silent Song? Thinking Adept is better for this deck)
3x Herald of Torment
4x Spiteful Returned
Spells:
4x Aqueous Form
4x Hidden Strings
3x Thoughtseize
2x (Brainstorm a good cheap enchantment here! New one that grants flying/draw card? Removal? Triton Tactics? Ideas welcome.)
Artifacts:
4x Springleaf Drum
Land:
2x Temple of Deceit
4x Watery Grave
10x Swamp
6x Island
So, everyone is hating on bestow. Well, I feel that not only does it give you more options, but in a deck such as this, it fills the curve out perfectly, and allows you to customize your threats. Also triggers heroic.
Spiteful returned I think is awesome. 2 mana attacks for 3, sure! Bestow it on the Siren, or on an aqueous formed Tormented Hero / Pain Seer, go to town! Or, cast it by itself and bestow the Herald of Torment onto that guy! Also serves as another 2 drop for Springleaf Drum if we don't get a Pain Seer.
Herald is pretty straightforward. Makes something into a serious threat. 6/5 flying Agent of Fates as early as turn 4? After you sack a creature? Yuck.
Ashiok's Adept / Siren of Silent Song / Agent of Fates. Your targets for hidden strings re-casts.
Pain Seer will be an experiment. Seems far to conditional to be good, but we'll see.
Thoughtseize unfortunately is our only way to combat sweepers/removal. I anticipate lots of 2 for 1s
Anyways, this is the idea. Make your little dudes unblockable, or get through with Hidden Strings, cause shenigans. Assemble monstrosities via bestow. Make them discard their hand or sacrifice all their creatures in a turn. Comments / ideas / welcome.
3x Agent of the Fates
3x Pain Seer
3x Spiteful Returned
4x Herald of Torment
4x Tormented Hero
2x Fate Unraveler
4x Retraction Helix
4x Stratus Walk
3x Thoughtseize
2x Hidden Strings
4x Bile Blight
2x Temple of Deceit
4x Watery Grave
7x Island
10x Swamp
-- this is 59 cards. I don't know where to allocate the 60th. 4x Agent of Fates seems excessive, as does Pain Seer and Spiteful Returned. Another solid creature /w Heroic or Inspired to add as maybe a 2x would probably behoove it. Anyways, seems fun. Other possibility is to try and pull of Whispering Madness / Fate Unraveler.
Can you use the Oracle of Bones ability to play overloaded spells? To my knowledge, overload is "part of the casting cost".
Your totally right. Requiring permanents to make phenax go is a huge downside. But it's also somewhat of an upside, as suddenly,it turns all of your permanents into a tool for potential destruction. Between Ashiok, Jace and Phenax (and therefore all your walls), that's a lot of threats that need answering. You are fortunately playing two excellent colors to protect your permanents.
As for sideboarding- what do you bring Far/Away in for? I would maybe just include the 4th Drown in Sorrow, as you are packing a ton of removal already. I also think some number of Duress would be killer against control, as you could effectively neuter their hands turns 1-4.
My current iteration (gonna test with it tonight, excited!)
4x Omenspeaker
4x Wall of Frost
2x Black Oak of Odunos
3x Pain Seer
3x Phenax, God of Deception
2x Drown in Sorrow
3x Bile Blight
4x Hero's Downfall
3x Thoughtseize
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Jace, Memory Adept
6x Island
10x Swamp
4x T o D
4x Watery Grave
I might take out the mainboard Drown in Sorrows and just go with 4 Bile Blights and a Warped Physique. Just pack 3-4 in the sideboard. I'll let you know
Anyways, like where your head is at. Also, have you considered mizzium skin for the SB? My original plan for a Phenax deck was to splash green for Golgari or Simic charm as a way to protect my permanents. I suppose enough hand disruption would serve just as well.
4x Carytid
3x Axebane Guardian
2x Hover Barrier
4x Wall of Frost
2x Consuming Aberration
3x Phenax, God of Mill
4x Kiora's Follower
1x Prophet of Kruphix
2x Kiora, Crashing
2x Jace, AoT
1x Mind Grind
2x Thoughtseize
4x Simic Charm
2x Abrupt Decay
24 Lands
Long time lurker, first time poster. Keep it constructive or speculative please. Kicking around ideas here at work.
Creatures:
4x Tormented Hero
4x Pain Seer
3x Agent of the Fates
3x Ashiok's Adept (or maybe the Siren of Silent Song? Thinking Adept is better for this deck)
3x Herald of Torment
4x Spiteful Returned
Spells:
4x Aqueous Form
4x Hidden Strings
3x Thoughtseize
2x (Brainstorm a good cheap enchantment here! New one that grants flying/draw card? Removal? Triton Tactics? Ideas welcome.)
Artifacts:
4x Springleaf Drum
Land:
2x Temple of Deceit
4x Watery Grave
10x Swamp
6x Island
So, everyone is hating on bestow. Well, I feel that not only does it give you more options, but in a deck such as this, it fills the curve out perfectly, and allows you to customize your threats. Also triggers heroic.
Spiteful returned I think is awesome. 2 mana attacks for 3, sure! Bestow it on the Siren, or on an aqueous formed Tormented Hero / Pain Seer, go to town! Or, cast it by itself and bestow the Herald of Torment onto that guy! Also serves as another 2 drop for Springleaf Drum if we don't get a Pain Seer.
Herald is pretty straightforward. Makes something into a serious threat. 6/5 flying Agent of Fates as early as turn 4? After you sack a creature? Yuck.
Ashiok's Adept / Siren of Silent Song / Agent of Fates. Your targets for hidden strings re-casts.
Pain Seer will be an experiment. Seems far to conditional to be good, but we'll see.
Thoughtseize unfortunately is our only way to combat sweepers/removal. I anticipate lots of 2 for 1s
Anyways, this is the idea. Make your little dudes unblockable, or get through with Hidden Strings, cause shenigans. Assemble monstrosities via bestow. Make them discard their hand or sacrifice all their creatures in a turn. Comments / ideas / welcome.