Delver isn't terrible as long as you can find an early darkblast. It feels like the all-star of that match up. Also, as long as they don't have access to Path to Exile, the will have trouble with racing Bloodghast.
Burn is a very bad match up. You just can't close fast enough to beat their draw/burn strategy. Smallpox and thoughtseize are pretty bad with no way to gain life. Postboard is slightly better with Tombstalker to close it out, but still not great. If you see burn often in your meta, consider packing an additional white source and vault of the archangel over the 3rd tectonic edge.
I haven't played against affinity or zoo yet. However, I assume it's similar to how BGx Rock plays those match up's, one for one with removal and disruption and win the late game with the grind.
currently the night whispers is the best draw we can use, easy mana to cast, instant impact on game and low life cost
I've heard Treasure Cruise is an ok draw card , so I decided to splash it instead of constantly getting beat by it. Here's the list I'm planning to test. Taking it to a local tournament next week. If folks are interested I'll provide results!
I've been testing this list and played it at an FNM tournament the other night. It takes a very long time to win and I ended up multiple draws (I'm not a slow player). I've began to do some timed testing against a gauntlet of pod, scapeshift, delver and affinity. We are consistently unable to finish 3 games in the allotted time. Although it is a competive deck and very fun to play, I think it's best to play it casually. I wouldn't take it to a PTQ or any serious tournament due to the likelihood of grinding into multiple draws (basically a loss).
I placed Top 4 at a PTQ last week with this 75. List felt super tight, and I was very happy with Wildspeaker and Darkblast. Only changes I would make are cutting Obstinate Baloth for a Bow of Nylea and perhaps a Golgari Charm for a Grafdigger's Cage. I would play this list again in a heartbeat.
Why Bow of Nylea? What match up's is that strong against?
Also, what kind of Junk list was in the Top 8 with you?
MD -3 Courser +1 Thrun +1 Ooze +1 Eternal Witness
-1 Tec Edge -1 Forest +1 Marsh Flat +1 Overgrown Tomb
SB -2 Finks were useless anyways. +2 Baloth might be good against Liliana.
Tectonic Edge has been really strong for me. The deck operates well at 3 mana and most top decks blue decks need that 4th land. Any deck that relies on man-lands that our abrupt decay and maelstrom pulse can't hit to close the game. I think you'll want the 4th. Also, main deck batterskull seems like a mistake. Drawing him off a bob is really going to hurt. Perhaps Sword of Light and Shadow would be better. Would love to hear how your match ups go!
What do people think about a 1 of Obliterator in the SB? Maybe splitting the difference between the Oblit version and the Tec Edge version? It's just so good against midrange/zoo match-ups but I really think at least a 1 of Thrun is the way to go main. I've eyed Skylasher as well. Mistcutter is also a nice topdeck vs Blue.
I wouldn't split the difference, Oblit is too difficult to cast with so many non-black lands and 4 tec edge are really necessary. If your meta has that much Zoo, I would just play the Oblit version. Skylasher dies pretty easily to bolt, and most blue decks are packing red so he might not be a good choice against the current blue decks out there. Mistcutter Hydra is interesting, but vendilion clique can toss him aside before he's out of bolt range. Thrun, the last troll non-targeting text is just really good against everything, I would probably just stick with him.
Here's some details from my matches. Let me preface this by saying I absolutely love playing this deck and will likely ride out the PTQ season with only minor tweaks. It has game against everything, even Tron.
0-0 Round 1: Tarmo-Twin 2-1
I expected a lot of twin, and the first round didn't disappoint. I lost game one to the combo. Tried to bluff an abrupt decay after thoughtseize discovered a turn 4 combo, but vendilion clique called my bluff and he won turn 5.
Side out:
I won the next two games on the backs of Bob, Goyf, and LotV, just as this deck should. Quick play note, always represent abrupt decay. Twin is terrified of this card. Also, wait for the vendilion clique trigger to target before responding.
1-0 Round 2: UR Twin 0-2
More twin! This version was streamlined to be all in on the combo and it worked. Despite multiple Thoughtseize, IoK, Abrupt Decay, Goyf and Bobs he just kept drawing the combo. I sided same as above, didn't help. My opponent had a 4 digit DCI#, so I didn't feel too bad and I had time to eat before round 3.
1-1 Round 3: Kiki-Pod 2-0
Opponent mulls to 4 and I've got Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek in my opening hand. I Thoughtseize first, because I assume he has no early plays at 4 cards and I don't want to whiff with my IoK. I now believe that was a mistake, as I revealed 2 lands, Kiki-Jiki, the Mirror Breaker, and Noble Hierarch. Of course I took the Hierarch, but now I have no way to snag Kiki and he could combo if he naturally draw's the other piece. He actually draws a restoration angel, but I was able to kill and beat him with a goyf. Can't remember my sideboard here, probably brought in batterskull and replaced a Thrun, the last troll. Game 2 I Thoughtseize his Birthing Podand beat him as no pod makes him just an inconsistent mid-range deck.
2-1 Round 4: Junk 2-1
Up until the night before the PTQ, I was running a Junk list with Lingering Souls and Path to Exile mainboard, and the solid sideboard white cards. I think Souls is bonkers, but it just isn't good enough in a combo filled meta. This player was running Junk, but no Souls and no PtE, I'm not really sure why he was in 3 colors. Can't remember a ton of details from this match, but Dark Confidant was once again the hero in both games I won. I drew everything I needed and more to run him over in games 1 and 3. I did make a play mistake in game 2 however. I cast Slaughter Pact during his attack phase (took out a goyf that was swinging for lethal) and forgot to pay 3 on my upkeep. Put dice on top of your library after casting Slaughter Pact!!! I was way behind in the game and likely to lose anyway, but that is easily the dumbest way to lose. Never again!
3-1 Round 5: Merfolk 2-1
A matchup I practiced against, this deck is just as scary as any of the other aggro strategies. Spreading Seas will ruin your day, but at 2 colors I'm slightly better off. In game 1, Liliana of the veil got online and Goyf did the dirty work.
Side out: Dark Confidant
Side in:
Game 2, he has the nut draw and blows me away. After a lengthy, mid-match deck check (weird), we were in an almost stalemated board. Everyone is watching as the deck check gave us extra time and all other matches were complete. He's able to start swinging and I'm on a 2 turn clock. On my turn, with a hand of Goyf, Slaughter Pact, and Abrupt, I tapped my mana wrong to cast goyf and almost killed my self since I really needed that abrupt decay. Luckily, he drew an Island and attacked, I used Slaughter Pact on his lord (put 4 dice on my library ), all his blocked attackers died at the hands of 2 goyfs and a fat scavenging ooze. Paid my cost on my upkeep, pumped my scooze and swung back for lethal. I'm not used to a crowd, was really fun to win despite my poor use of Twilight Mire.
4-1 Round 6: LSV-Pod (no Melira) 0-2
By this match I'm pretty tired but stoked to still be in the winner's bracket. I don't have a lot to say about this match, but I saw 5 pods in 2 games. This deck can only handle a few 4+ mana, non-creature permanents and that is too many. He beat me with flying, value creatures and don't think I made any play errors.
I played out the next 2 matches before prizes, lost the Burn lottery and drew with U/B Fae player. Overall I'm happy with deck and will probably replace victim of the night with slaughter pact. Thanks for reading, feedback and sideboard advice appreciated!
What do you guys think about geralf's messenger for the obliterators version? He's aggressive and resilient.
I think the Obliterator version of the list is at it's best by taking a "control" role against Aggro and mid-range decks. Playing a creature that can't block the turn he's played doesn't really fit well in that strategy. However, Geralf's messenger could be good out of the sideboard (on the play) against other mid-range decks and those that have mostly targeted removal.
Great job with the primer! I was planning to play Junk this PTQ season. However, with so much combo out there I agree that Lingering Souls is bad right now. Here is my list:
I'm playing in a PTQ tomorrow and plan to write up a short report on my matches. I would prefer Rain of tears to be fulminator mage, but those won't arrive in time. I'm in the Pacific Northwest (USA) and expect a meta of Jund, Affinity, Tron, Pod, UR Delver (people love delver out here) and Twin. Would you recommend any changes anything to the MB or SB?
I have been very impressed with Garruk Relentless and Lingering Souls, just a nightmare for blue decks. I have found Affinity and Hatebears to be pretty tough matchups though. Do you have any recommendations for a sideboard plan?
Also, I'm interested to see the list that is running the Restoration Angel mentioned above. Thanks!
I'm running the same list on MTGO while building BGx. Don't ditch funeral charm, it's really good with Urborg and the other hand disruption we are packing. Honestly, I think the list could play up to 3 Liliana of the veil and you should be mainboard more targeted hand removal such as Thoughtsieze and Duress. I'm new to the forums and haven't figured out how to post a decklist yet, but will soon.
I just picked this up on Modo, something to play while building BGx. I'm having some trouble figuring out what is a "keep-able" opening hand. What do you consider a great opening hand?
Thank you for taking the time to post. Did you do any research before going to the PTQ? I have one in 2 weeks and I'm struggling to find good articles on the new sealed format.
Burn is a very bad match up. You just can't close fast enough to beat their draw/burn strategy. Smallpox and thoughtseize are pretty bad with no way to gain life. Postboard is slightly better with Tombstalker to close it out, but still not great. If you see burn often in your meta, consider packing an additional white source and vault of the archangel over the 3rd tectonic edge.
I haven't played against affinity or zoo yet. However, I assume it's similar to how BGx Rock plays those match up's, one for one with removal and disruption and win the late game with the grind.
I've heard Treasure Cruise is an ok draw card , so I decided to splash it instead of constantly getting beat by it. Here's the list I'm planning to test. Taking it to a local tournament next week. If folks are interested I'll provide results!
1x Drowned Catacomb
4x Flooded Strand
4x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
4x Marsh Flats
2x Mutavault
2x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Tectonic Edge
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Duress
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize
3x Treasure Cruise
Instant (7)
2x Darkblast
4x Path to Exile
1x Slaughter Pact
Creature (11)
4x Blade Splicer
4x Pack Rat
3x Tidehollow Sculler
Artifact (1)
1x Batterskull
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Aven Mindcensor
2x Doom Blade
2x Esper Charm
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
2x Zealous Persecution
Why Bow of Nylea? What match up's is that strong against?
Also, what kind of Junk list was in the Top 8 with you?
I wouldn't split the difference, Oblit is too difficult to cast with so many non-black lands and 4 tec edge are really necessary. If your meta has that much Zoo, I would just play the Oblit version. Skylasher dies pretty easily to bolt, and most blue decks are packing red so he might not be a good choice against the current blue decks out there. Mistcutter Hydra is interesting, but vendilion clique can toss him aside before he's out of bolt range. Thrun, the last troll non-targeting text is just really good against everything, I would probably just stick with him.
2x Forest
1x woodland cemetery
2x Marsh Flats
2x Twilight Mire
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Swamp
4x Tectonic Edge
4x Treetop Village
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
Creature
2x Courser of Kruphix
4x Dark Confidant
3x Scavenging Ooze
1x eternal witness
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Thrun, the last troll
4x Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
Instant
1x dismember
4x Abrupt Decay
1x slaughter pact
1x victim of the night
1x drown in sorrow
1x geth's verdict
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Batterskull
2x Creeping Corrosion
1x Golgari Charm
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x kitchen finks
3x rain of tears
Here's some details from my matches. Let me preface this by saying I absolutely love playing this deck and will likely ride out the PTQ season with only minor tweaks. It has game against everything, even Tron.
0-0 Round 1: Tarmo-Twin 2-1
I expected a lot of twin, and the first round didn't disappoint. I lost game one to the combo. Tried to bluff an abrupt decay after thoughtseize discovered a turn 4 combo, but vendilion clique called my bluff and he won turn 5.
Side out:
- Courser of Kruphix
- eternal witness
Side in:- geth's verdict
- Surgical Extraction
I won the next two games on the backs of Bob, Goyf, and LotV, just as this deck should. Quick play note, always represent abrupt decay. Twin is terrified of this card. Also, wait for the vendilion clique trigger to target before responding.1-0 Round 2: UR Twin 0-2
More twin! This version was streamlined to be all in on the combo and it worked. Despite multiple Thoughtseize, IoK, Abrupt Decay, Goyf and Bobs he just kept drawing the combo. I sided same as above, didn't help. My opponent had a 4 digit DCI#, so I didn't feel too bad and I had time to eat before round 3.
1-1 Round 3: Kiki-Pod 2-0
Opponent mulls to 4 and I've got Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek in my opening hand. I Thoughtseize first, because I assume he has no early plays at 4 cards and I don't want to whiff with my IoK. I now believe that was a mistake, as I revealed 2 lands, Kiki-Jiki, the Mirror Breaker, and Noble Hierarch. Of course I took the Hierarch, but now I have no way to snag Kiki and he could combo if he naturally draw's the other piece. He actually draws a restoration angel, but I was able to kill and beat him with a goyf. Can't remember my sideboard here, probably brought in batterskull and replaced a Thrun, the last troll. Game 2 I Thoughtseize his Birthing Podand beat him as no pod makes him just an inconsistent mid-range deck.
2-1 Round 4: Junk 2-1
Up until the night before the PTQ, I was running a Junk list with Lingering Souls and Path to Exile mainboard, and the solid sideboard white cards. I think Souls is bonkers, but it just isn't good enough in a combo filled meta. This player was running Junk, but no Souls and no PtE, I'm not really sure why he was in 3 colors. Can't remember a ton of details from this match, but Dark Confidant was once again the hero in both games I won. I drew everything I needed and more to run him over in games 1 and 3. I did make a play mistake in game 2 however. I cast Slaughter Pact during his attack phase (took out a goyf that was swinging for lethal) and forgot to pay 3 on my upkeep. Put dice on top of your library after casting Slaughter Pact!!! I was way behind in the game and likely to lose anyway, but that is easily the dumbest way to lose. Never again!
3-1 Round 5: Merfolk 2-1
A matchup I practiced against, this deck is just as scary as any of the other aggro strategies. Spreading Seas will ruin your day, but at 2 colors I'm slightly better off. In game 1, Liliana of the veil got online and Goyf did the dirty work.
Side out: Dark Confidant
Side in:
- Kitchen Finks
- Golgari Charm
- Drown in Sorrow
Game 2, he has the nut draw and blows me away. After a lengthy, mid-match deck check (weird), we were in an almost stalemated board. Everyone is watching as the deck check gave us extra time and all other matches were complete. He's able to start swinging and I'm on a 2 turn clock. On my turn, with a hand of Goyf, Slaughter Pact, and Abrupt, I tapped my mana wrong to cast goyf and almost killed my self since I really needed that abrupt decay. Luckily, he drew an Island and attacked, I used Slaughter Pact on his lord (put 4 dice on my library ), all his blocked attackers died at the hands of 2 goyfs and a fat scavenging ooze. Paid my cost on my upkeep, pumped my scooze and swung back for lethal. I'm not used to a crowd, was really fun to win despite my poor use of Twilight Mire.4-1 Round 6: LSV-Pod (no Melira) 0-2
By this match I'm pretty tired but stoked to still be in the winner's bracket. I don't have a lot to say about this match, but I saw 5 pods in 2 games. This deck can only handle a few 4+ mana, non-creature permanents and that is too many. He beat me with flying, value creatures and don't think I made any play errors.
I played out the next 2 matches before prizes, lost the Burn lottery and drew with U/B Fae player. Overall I'm happy with deck and will probably replace victim of the night with slaughter pact. Thanks for reading, feedback and sideboard advice appreciated!
I think the Obliterator version of the list is at it's best by taking a "control" role against Aggro and mid-range decks. Playing a creature that can't block the turn he's played doesn't really fit well in that strategy. However, Geralf's messenger could be good out of the sideboard (on the play) against other mid-range decks and those that have mostly targeted removal.
2x Forest
1x woodland cemetery
2x Marsh Flats
2x Twilight Mire
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Swamp
4x Tectonic Edge
4x Treetop Village
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
Creature
2x Courser of Kruphix
4x Dark Confidant
3x Scavenging Ooze
1x eternal witness
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Thrun, the last troll
1x Garruk Relentless
4x Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
Instant
2x dismember
4x Abrupt Decay
1x slaughter pact
2x drown in sorrow
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Thrun, the last troll
1x Batterskull
1x Creeping Corrosion
2x Golgari Charm
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x surgical extraction
2x rain of tears
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
I'm playing in a PTQ tomorrow and plan to write up a short report on my matches. I would prefer Rain of tears to be fulminator mage, but those won't arrive in time. I'm in the Pacific Northwest (USA) and expect a meta of Jund, Affinity, Tron, Pod, UR Delver (people love delver out here) and Twin. Would you recommend any changes anything to the MB or SB?
2x Forest
2x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Swamp
1x temple garden
3x Tectonic Edge
3x Treetop Village
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
Artifact
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
Creature
2x Courser of Kruphix
4x Dark Confidant
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Garruk, the veil-cursed
4x Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
Instant
3x Abrupt Decay
1x slaughter pact
2x path to exile
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Batterskull
1x Creeping Corrosion
2x Golgari Charm
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Stony Silence
2x Thrun, the Last Troll
I have been very impressed with Garruk Relentless and Lingering Souls, just a nightmare for blue decks. I have found Affinity and Hatebears to be pretty tough matchups though. Do you have any recommendations for a sideboard plan?
Also, I'm interested to see the list that is running the Restoration Angel mentioned above. Thanks!