GDS, JDS, UW Control, Jeskai Control and BRw Pyro
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Feb 3, 2018Kathal posted a message on [POLL] What cards do you want banned or unbanned in the February 12, 2018 announcement?Posted in: Modern Archives
Feb 3, 2018Posted in: ModernQuote from idSurge »What unban's are going to realistically improve this format, as shown by the PT though?
It purely depends on the respective player. Some would want Jace, Stoneforge and BBE, others would look at DTT, Dark Depths or Preordain.
Feb 2, 2018Kathal posted a message on [POLL] What cards do you want banned or unbanned in the February 12, 2018 announcement?Oh boy, you have no idea on how good 12 Post was before it got the Axe. While back than there was both the UW "Control" shell and the Gx one which did well (especially at the PT), both pale towards the version popping up post PT, pre banning: The Amulet of Vigor version.Posted in: Modern Archives
The deck did basically the same as the (now banned) Summer Bloom deck, heck, it even played Scapeshift to super accelerate. Why should I care about playing a turn 3 Karn if I instead can play a turn 4 old Ulamaog and/or a turn 4 old Emrakul. Both lines did the deck fairly consistent, it is (for the current "Modern standard") just gross.
Here are some videos about that deck:
Deck tech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5LK6jW0T0M
Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1OiNSl86sE& - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtmSICRELBk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdyyzh7sgwg
I rather get Karned on turn 3 and have a shot at winning that getting Emrakuled on turn 4...
PS: Also, it is way easier to interact with Tron lands than it is with Post lands. With Tron you just need to turn of a single one of them that they do not get any big mana of it, with Post you need to turn off all the Cloudposts.
Jan 29, 2018Kathal posted a message on [POLL] What cards do you want banned or unbanned in the February 12, 2018 announcement?Pyromancer Ascension combo says hi (aka I loop Bolts till you are dead).Posted in: Modern Archives
Sure, the premier combo deck would vanish in its current form, but others would pick up steam, due to the shift of the metagame.
PS: Though, I would hate it, if they would ban anything in the format atm.
Jan 29, 2018Please keep in mind, that Modern is vastly different of Legacy and DTT got banned due to fundamentally different reasons in each formats AND they had also a very different power level in the respective formats, especially due to the different set-up tools (Probe, Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain,... vs Thought Scour, Probe and Serum Vision (nowadays without Probe ofc)).Posted in: Modern Archives
As previously said, if a card is banned in Legacy and in Modern, it is always within the context of the format. There is a reason, why DRS was garbage in Standard but the opposite in Legacy/Modern.
Jan 25, 2018Playing DTT in GDS means, that you cannot really play any Delve creatures, which is HUGE for that deck, since it already has a rather low creature density. A Grixis version with a Green splash for Goyf could fix that problem, but the mana base will become really wonky because of this. Though, maybe a BUG Shadow could evolve from there, but this is purely theory atm.Posted in: Modern Archives
So while I can understand your concern about GDS, I'm more concerned about UW and Jeskai Stuff, since they can reap the full value out of DTT.
Besides those three decks, the list of decks I mentioned is way longer. Delver is ***** tier atm, same with RUG Scapeshift. Both would benefit a lot from DTT to get back to at least playable tier.
Hence, as I said previously, while I doubt that DTT will come back anytime soon, it would be something worth exploring in my opinion.
Jan 24, 2018Please explain how DTT broke Legacy in half? Right, it didn't power up tier 2 or 3 decks (which it would do, if there was no UW/Jeskai stuff running around) but already an established Tier 1 deck in Omni Show and also Miracles. That the first one evolved to a rather interesting monster due to Dig is mainly based on the cantrips which are legal in Legacy.Posted in: Modern Archives
Otherwise, besides from the Grixis Delver decks, not many decks played that card or didn't "break" the format in any way. It was just two decks which were the problem...
Could this happen in modern? Maybe, I have no idea. Is it realistically that it happens? Currently no due to how the current format functions.
Dec 7, 2017There is currently no home for her, cause she is in the wrong colours to say it this way. UGx is a colour combination, which doesn't mesh well with the 0 ability (aka the main reason to run her). If you go into Bant, there are way better options (Knight as a utility creature and Gideon, Ally of Zendrika as PW). Other colour combinations have better PW to say it this way.Posted in: Modern
Nov 23, 2017Always when I hear about the BR Grisel Control versions, I have to think immediately about this version: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/necrotic_ooze_combo_deck_tech_.htmlPosted in: Combo
Of course, completely outdated, but as a base it would be interesting to go from it.
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Jan 22, 2018Updated, but missing new Polyraptor combos. Apparently there is a 300,000 character limit on posts and the infinite combo list has reached it.Posted in: Modern Archives
I'll start working on editing the code to be in two posts and create a new topic once it is complete.
Dec 21, 2017those are some very good points, thanks! There's merits to attacking with just the wurms and hoping they blow their paths on the tokens. I was actually strongly considering passing here to have more looks at lands. My primary worries were 1) the GQ gaining them life and 2) if I swing with everything, theoretically with 2 paths I just die to the backswing with Voice token and a pumped up tracker. You said that 2 paths is something we can't beat, but we can actually theoretically beat 2 paths if we load up for enough lands for borborygmos (that's why your suggestion on waiting to hug next turn has merits. that sees 4 cards).Posted in: Combo
I think not attacking is not optimal though. Think we need to make them have 2 paths. If he only has 1 path, rpesenting lethal and making him sacrifice resources to live is a real thing (he could theoretically tap his painlands to make his tracker a 7/6 and survive a wurm too. Any canopies/GQs tapped helps our Borborygmos plan. So I think the plan actually should be to attack with 3 wurms and reevaluate for what he does, with the base case plan being looting into borborygmos for a kill if he's presenting lethal next turn, or wait to Hug it out next turn for a borb kill (hopefully he has used all his paths at this point).
As played, I Looted pre-combat, saw no lands, and Reanimated Borb for the kill. He had 2 paths and I lost
Dec 3, 2017Good answers! My considerations during the games:Posted in: Combo
1. Kathal, you have good points about the downside scenarios in going for it. My main concerns were the resource constraints (I noted that I had bottomed a shoal, and plus we do not get to gain 7 by attacking/blocking). That the deck is divisible by 7 is not nearly as big here, because we know the very last card is a Shoal, though if we are unfortunate enough to have key resource constraints in the other 6 cards (fast mana or both Borbys), then it will matter.
Then you have to think about the decision tree branch that you are currently facing. We can't assume the opponent misclicks his relic. Let's call his clock a 5 turn clock. By then, we'll need 5 mana (potentially ruined by arbiter/GQ shenanigans, or thalia, which we can reasonably expect from this sort of an archetype) to breach. And even if you get there, Wurm may be an invalid win condition (path invalidates it. Pacts won't help if we can't one shot them). If the Wurm is not a valid win con, we'll then need to draw griselbrand. We pretty much need to draw ~4 specific cards in ~7 draws (counting looting).
With that said, I thought that it'd be a higher percentage play (although still not great) to trust in the Church of Griselbrand
2. This is actually not as interesting as I thought. I thought I could get reliced (tap ability) out if Griselbrand is the single card in the graveyard (discard is a cost), but you can just vengeance in response. You are cold to a SSG+relic activation regardless (Breach Titan lists play SSGs). It was pretty fun in that the only way we could feasibly win this game was if he indeed played a creature like this.
WRT the decision to ritual or not, we must weigh having a startup R or save the ritual for splicing action. Former matters if we draw the other ritual but don't draw enough SSGs, while the latter is relevant if you draw two ssgs or more. Given that we have 4 SSGs and 1 rit left, I think the best move is to hold the ritual to splice and reduce the # of SSGs that we need to hit.
What happened: I pacted the relic and ritual->axe->vengeance. Neither opponent got to untap.
Dec 2, 2017+1 brutality (expected thalia/meddling mage nonsense)Posted in: Combo
-2 Hug (counterspells)
-1 ritual (generally don't like ritual vs. thalia, plus this is a slow ish matchup)
post-sideboard deck consists of 4 SSGs, 1 ritual, 4 shoals, 4 wurm, 2 borborygmos, 2 brutalities, 1 lightning axe, no hugs. rest should be the usual suspects
Nov 25, 2017Posted in: ComboQuote from finalnub »
I've been meaning to play the ooze version (and the fury version for the matter) as it's getting a bit stale playing grishoalbrand all the time. Do you have an updated list I can fool around with:)?Quote from Kathal »Always when I hear about the BR Grisel Control versions, I have to think immediately about this version: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/necrotic_ooze_combo_deck_tech_.html
Of course, completely outdated, but as a base it would be interesting to go from it.
Looking at the list, I kind of get the gist of the deck but still don't quite understand. Oooze lets us dodge.. just cage right? Looks like the idea is to bin borb+griselbrand, play an ooze and combo (the combo seems to be chaining soul spikes which is the only life gain engine that I see). Other targeted GY hate like scooze, surgical, Leyline/RIP still seems to be good vs this version, unless you sequence a certain way (playing ooze first, then binning griselbrand/borb).
Posted about it in here before but: http://riptidelab.com/necrotic-brews-the-goryos-vengeance-variety-hour/
Nov 18, 2017Here's a mini report on the Modern Challenge that I won last weekPosted in: Combo
Round 1 vs. D00mwake (UG Merfolk, OTD)
G1: I keep a h and of temple, land Vengeance, Whispers, Griselbrand, Shoal, Breach. Base plan is to discard Griselbrand to t2 Night's Whisper and combo t3. He plays some new green dorks but doesn't do anything relevant. I combo t3
+2 Bontu's +1 Pact +1 Anger +1 Lightning Axe
-2 Ritual -1 Whisper -1 Brutality -1 Through the Breach
I board out a breach because WIth their clock and disruption I don't think I'm making it out to t5 very often. Especially on the draw I'm on full defensive mode
g2: I mull a good 7 with Vengeance, cantrips, Pact etc but no land, into no land 6 and 5 and keep a 4 with land, SSG, looting, x. Funny when you still have a realistic chance as long as you have a land and looting, basically. I get run over.
g3: I keep a mediocre hand of 4 lands, looting, whisper, anger. By turn 2 I have drawn into Breach, Griselbrand, Shoal and SSG so my plan is now well defined. His t3 involves him extending into 3 creatuers so I plan on tapping out with SSG to try and combo, as I'm not lnog for the world. I draw a Wurm for the turn and both my constraints become relaxed and I win.
Round 2 vs. Gmanlsa (GB Tron, OTP)
g1 I start with a nutty hand of 2 lands, looting, vengeance, Griselbrand and Wurm. His turn 1 is a Tower into Chromatic Star. My next turn is a bit better
+2 Shattering Spree
-1 Brutality -1 Ritual
This matchup is such a joke that I wouldn't even bother with Blood Moon OTP.
G2 I start with a reasonable hand of each of my 3 fatties, temple, mountain, looting, hug. He insists on being the fun police with a t1 relic and t2 brutality taking away my hug. I eventually looting into a vengeance and I have a decision to ditch Griselbrand or hold him to draw into breach. I bin the griselbrand and try to draw into another Vengeance, a Spree, or Breach a Wurm for my win condition. his t4 tron produces a wurmcoil and I never get close
G3 i start with 2 lands, rit, SSG, looting, borb, grisel. My Looting hits a Vengeance and I start to wonder if today's the day.
Round 3 vs. SmoiL (Eldrazi Tron, OTD)
g1 I keep a hand of 2 lands, wurm, SSG, whispers, hug and Vengeance. Pretty good. He leads on Mine+Chalice for 0, so he obviously has another Chalice. I temple a Breach on bottom and he casts an irrelevant chalice for 1. He misses his third landdrop which makes me wonder about his keep. His board consisted of a Ballista for 1, chalice for 1, chalice for 0, GQ and Mine when I breached in a Wurm on turn 4
+2 Shatternig Spree +1 Bontu's +1 Lightning Axe
-1 Brutality -2 Ritual -1 Temple on the play
I've actually had Etron players insist on Chalice for 1 even postboard so if you observe that, don't bother with Lightning axe
g2 I have a good hand of 3 lands, 2 Whispers, Griselbrand and Breach and draw a ssg t1. He plays a chalice for 1 again and then plays a temple into TKS on t3 and takes away my Griselbrand when I had 2 Breaches. Rude. His t4 consisted of playing a Smasher to smash me to 8. My turn 4 consisted of drawing another fast mana and breaching in a Wurm for 15. He's now at 5 with TKS and Smasher while I'm at 8 with 3 angry 5/5 wurms plus a Blood Crypt, Breach and Shoal. I'm winning the race for now but this can be swung around in his favor by stuff like All is Dust, running smashers/Endbringers. Sure enough, on his next turn he plays another smasher such that his board is now Smasherx2 and TKS. He passes and I present lethal and we trade off 2 of our creatuers and he chumps with TKS which draws me a hug (hand is now hug, spree, shoal, breach, Crypt). It's going to be problematic if he draws another 5/5 or an All is Dust so I work towards getting a second breach going. I hug pitching Spree and SHoal to pick up a rit, wurm and looting. So I'm set up to fight through another blocker/All is Dust next turn with another Breached Wrum. Of course he draws a TKS and takes away my Breach. I draw a blank and he chumps my wurm, going down to 3. I draw another Breach off of the TKS and his topdecked Smasher is made obsolete next turn
Round 4 vs. Juzam-Djinn84 (Storm, OTP)
g1 I recognize his name as a storm grinder so I know I'm in for a ride. I keep a hand of 2 lands, 2 Vengeances, griselbrand and SSG. On my t2 i don't draw anything and pass, aiming to discard to handsize next turn (I have SSG+2 vengeances to play through a remand). He plays a baral on t3 but does not kill me. I EoT Vengeance with my SSG, and he has the remand. I untap and Vengeance again for the win
+1 Brutality +1 Lightning Axe +2 Pact
-2 rit -2 hug
I would bring in the chalices for pacts OTP
g2 i keep a mediocre hand that never draws a Vengeance with Griselbrand in the bin. I dig 22 cards deep to no avail. He plays 2 Goblins and a Baral and beats em down
g3 I mull a no land 7 into a hand with 2 lands, Vengeance, Breach and Griselbrand. Seems reasonable enough.I scry a SSG to the bottom looking for cantrips. His turn 2 Electromancer sends me into a panic and of course I draw a Brutality like a professional and kill the goblin. I punt t3 when I main phase Vengeance with him at 3 lands and nothing else. I get remanded and lose tempo. thankfully he doesn't murder me turn 4 and I go for it again main phase (I think him having 3 lands vs. 4 is a big difference in terms of what he needs to go off next turn). He uses 2 of his 3 open mana to cast Peer through Depth, prsumably looking for dispel. He doesn't have it and I kill him t4
Round 5 vs. toondoslav (GW elves, otp)
I keep a very speculative hand of temple, whisper, rit, shoal, wurm, griselbrand, Breach. I have 2 shots at a land and then I'd be in business. I scry another temple to the top while he plays a bunch of dorks. On his turn 2 he spews 11 points of damage onto play. On my turn 3 I play my third land, play a ritual, shoal pitch wurm splice breach, breaching Griselbrand. My mana is pretty constrained here but I cannot give him a chance to draw an archdruid or an ezuri. I end fizzling because my deck size was divisible by 7 with 4 remainder. I end the turn with 4 cards left in deck, 5 lands and 2 Vengeances in hand, and a Borb in the GY with the opponent at 13 and I pray he doesn't kill me. He doesn't topdeck and swings for 11 and i kill him with borb
+2 Bontu's +1 Lightning Axe +1 Anger
-2 Ritual -1 Whisper -1 Temple OTD
Brutailty is good in theory but being OTD vs OTP for the turn 2 play can make a world of a difference
g2 I keep a hand with 2 lands, vengeance, phose, shoal, Bontu's and Anger. Great. He mulls to 5 and I feel a RIP to the face in my future. his first 2 turns consists of t1 land heritage druid, t2 land nothing. I don't draw business for a while so I just sculpt my hand. He plays a t3 RIP and keeps beating me down his 1/1. I draw enough mana so I cast a SSG to halt his Heritage druid assault. He then draws his 4th land and plays ezuri, which is bad news bears. I attack with SSG with the plan to wipe away ezuri after. He makes the mistake of blocking SSG with Heritage Druid and then regeneration it, tapping him out, letting my Bontu's sweep his board. I keep drawing Vengeances after though and he draws a Vizier and a Nettle afterwards, and my life is starting to get reallly low with jsut breaches but nothing else in my hand. I finally draw a griselbrand but get a really bad draw 7 or two, so I set up a breach Griselbrand next turn. He plays a selfless spirit and attacks. I make a gigantic mistake of breaching and attacking with Griselbrand the next turn, where he obviously blocked then sacced to deny lifelink. I should've obviously waited for him to attack with his Nettle Sentinel to block it. THankfully I don't get punished and I finally get there in 10 turns
Round 6 vs. TomatoCheese (GB Tron, OTD)
g1 I keep a hand of 2 swamps, 2 shoals, wurm, griselbrand and vengeance and chuckle at his t1 tower+Sphere. I plan on t1 land, t2 discard griselbrand, t3 kill. He doesn't have discard and I kill him t3
SB: same as above
g2 I keep a very speculative hand of 2 Vengeances, land, ssg, spree, phose, shoal. His first 2 turns concists of a swamp+Marsh and a relic, which complicates things for my double Vengeance hand. I manaphose into a land and spree his relic+map and he gets no value out of either of those. I draw into looting+Griselbrand by t4 and win.
Round 7 vs. Miguelcaster (Eldrazi & Taxes, OTP)
I look him up as the only other undefeated and groan at his history of playing E&T. I keep a hand that kills him t4 even through a t3 TKS
+1 Anger +2 Bontu's +1 Lightning axe
-1 Brutality -1 Whisper -2 RItual
g2 and g3 plays the same. I'm ruined by a mixture of thalias and RIP. I would try Blood Moons OTP because their mana base without Vials is putrid
Quarterfinals vs. TomatoCheese (GB Tron, OTP)
g1 I keep a 1 lander with wurms, Vengeance, Griselbrand and Looting. keep. Sucks that the second land is a Temple but thankfully he doesn't have a Brutality and I win g3
SB: Same as above
g2: I mull a no land 7 into temple, swamp, 2 whispers, hug, wurm. he has t3 tron+relic.while I keep cantripping and eventually draw into breach+fatty, only to be thoughtseized but thankfully he's durling around with eggs and Thragtusk. I draw into a Shoal+Breach+Borb+wurm+4 lands, so I shoal pitch borb breaching in wurm when he's at 23. this line is pretty weak vs. wurmcoil but he hadn't played it for 2 turns after tron so i figured that wasn't a thing. I pass confidently and he slams wurmcoil. Thankfully I did splice the breach so I have 4 lands+whisper+ssg+Breach leftover. My whisper draws me into another wurm. He attacks with wurmcoil (no block) and then plays a ballista for 6, which seals the deal as I breach in a wurm and attack 30 points of power
Semifinals vs eronkim (OTP, Burn)
Before g1 I'm doing some research and realize 1 of the player has a bunch of 5-0s with lantern and grixis shadows, so I'm praying he loses in the semis
g1 I keep a hand of 2 temples, mountain, looting, ssg, phose, wurm. Not the most exciting hand. He goes foundry+goblin guide revealing griselbrand. I find a Vengeance with my looting and he tapped down for swifty and bolt so I don't have to worry about skullcrack effects while I kill him t3
+2 Pact +1 Lightning Axe
g2 I keep a pretty loose hand of 3 temple, montain, swamp, rit, shoalx2, wurm. But gain 11 vs burn seems good so whatever. I draw a Griselbrand then scry another land to the top for Guide. next turn I draw a temple and scry breach to the top. Though I'm already at 11, i have 2 lands and a hand of 2 shoals, wurm, rit, griselbrand with a Breach next turn, so I feel OK. I don't shoal while he's tapped out and take a risk that he doesn't have skullcrack effects and I can combo next turn. His next turn is a Molten Rain to set me back (?!?!) I end up in the game state that I shared with you above, and ended up stopping rather than keep going. I took the hit, did a Brutality check and won the turn after
Finals vs. caux12 (Burn, OTD)
Thankfully Jadoth on the other side lost playing lantern and now I get to face a good matchup. I have a hand that has combo pieces but 2 too many whispers. thankfully I t1 loot away a Griselbrand and topdeck a Vengeance t2. I wait until the end of his next turn as not to get blown out by Skullcrack (skullcrack in response to Vengeance renders griselbrand to nothing).he ends up tapping out for Eidolon so I am free to carefully combo off while being mindful of the Eidolon on t3
SB: same as above. Consider bringing chalices in OTP
g2 I mull a no land 7 into 5 red cards and a swamp into 2 mountains, hug, looting and pact. I shrug and keep. I actually make a game out of it by drawing into vengeance/brutality etc while he runs out of gas. He slams a relic a tur nbefore I can Vengeance back a Griselbrand and that is that
g3 I have 2 temples, looting, phose, vengeance, chalice, breach and scry a SSG to the bottom. t2 I draw Vengeance, loot into griselbrand with 2 vengeances in hand. Opponent taps out on his t2, and it just feels like it's my day. I kill him and take down the whole thing.
TLDR: I played the matchup bingo well, and had a bunch of t3/t4 kills
Aug 15, 2017t0adman, Leyline unfortunately isn't close to a 1 hit KO against them. The real problems are the discards and the counterspells. With their high density of cantrips, they will eventually see their shadows/pyromancer and kill you in short order. And EE likely won't put in the work you'd want it to - most of the times it's just going to be one shadows plus a snapcaster/delver beating you down. In that case, even a push or a murderous cut would be better.Posted in: Combo
I would definitely play Read the Bones over Sign in Blood
I would highly recommend against transforming your deck in such a way that you are no longer being proactive and asking the questions. I would much proactively shut down the opposing gameplan through moons and chalices. Leylines are deader than dead late game.
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