Hey everyone! I am starting to build eldrazi tron as it is a deck that has been on my wishlist for a while.
Quick question though: Why doesn't the deck play Kozilek, Butcher of Truth? I feel like for 10 mana having access to annihilator as well as drawing four cards on its cast is far greater than ulamog ceaseless hunger?
Other than that, I'm excited to join the forum since i've mostly been an elves and jeskai player for a while
Okay.. I have played a ton of magic over the past several weeks between FNMs and the Starcity tournament.. and from what I've seen, I think the correct jeskai list right now is big jeskai with 3 supreme verdict mainboard, 3 cryptic, 2 jace, etc...
I tried the geist list and I think he is definitely good in the sideboard as a 2x of because he wins some matches straight up; however against a lot of the ponza land destruction and eldrazi tron, you want to just win the long game by countermagic
In reagards to the Mana Leak, a few of the pros have started doing a blend of logic knot and mana leak, and I am doing the same (a 2/2 split)
It's really good in the beginning turns and with the way the format is going with big tap out plays I could see it getting even better.
Okay so in regards to a geist list. I have something that seems to be working really well.
I am currently playing around with 3 geist and instead of supreme verdicts I have been using settle the wreckage and it has been working really well. My friend owns Tron/Eldrazi Tron so i've been playing some practice matches with him and I see a huge difference in games won than that I took to the Starcity Open.
I really am a huge fan of the 3/1 snapcaster torrential gearhulk style (because I really like torrential gearhulk... kind of a pet card) and I could see running that since settle the wreckage is an instant so it can be targeted for flashback. Overall the deck just seems to play faster and doesn't need to wait a long period of time to finally turn the corner and win
So your list is 3x Geist, 3x Snap, 1x Gearhulk, and 2x Settle the Wreckage MD?
Yeahh.. I also cut back to 1x search for azcanta so that the number of torrential gearhulk targets is more.. So far it feels pretty good.. I also really like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in this sort of build as he has immediate use more so then in the more spell based versions..
Mind you, this probably isn't anything that I would take to a major tournament or something but at the moment it has been a lot of fun to play and I'll probably try it tomorrow at FNM
Okay so in regards to a geist list. I have something that seems to be working really well.
I am currently playing around with 3 geist and instead of supreme verdicts I have been using settle the wreckage and it has been working really well. My friend owns Tron/Eldrazi Tron so i've been playing some practice matches with him and I see a huge difference in games won than that I took to the Starcity Open.
I really am a huge fan of the 3/1 snapcaster torrential gearhulk style (because I really like torrential gearhulk... kind of a pet card) and I could see running that since settle the wreckage is an instant so it can be targeted for flashback. Overall the deck just seems to play faster and doesn't need to wait a long period of time to finally turn the corner and win
Hey everyone! Been thinking about running just a solid UW instead of Jeskai and I have a few questions..
--Do you think the deck is capable of running without Wall of Omens or would you consider it essential?
--Has anyone tried an enchantment heavy build with like mainboard runed halo and like ghostly prison?
--Is Sphinx's Rev still used in the decks.. I noticed those on this last page of the forum do not have it currently. Was just wondering if it was considered a dead card now with JtMS being a thing
Has anyone tried Settle the Wreckage? I really like the idea of one sided wraths at instant speed.. Was thinking of going with those mainboard if trying to build a geist list soon
So overall I did pretty well. I went 4-5 with all losses going to game three's.. If anyone is interested in a detailed breakdown of my matches just let me know and I'd be happy to =)
But some overall thoughts after playing 9 long rounds and watching others play as well.
-- Gideon isn't suited well currently in the format. Often you are getting one 2/2 onto the field before he's removed and his emblem isn't anything game changing - I think moving forward I may be more interested in trying either Jace Architect of thought or like Gideon of the Trials..
-- Running 2x Geist of Saint Traft in the sideboard was the excellent strategy that won a lot of matches. I would side them in if we went to game three and by then they boarded out most (if not all) of their removal which made for aggro wins from left field. I played against Mardu in my final match and had him dead by turn 4 with a combination of burn and geist swinging.
-- I think running 3x Jace might be the number we are looking for. After playing a lot of matches with him on the field, he just blew my opponents away by card advantage and I think you want to be casting him every game. However from my match ups (this may not be entirely right) but I think casting him like turn 5/6 is the right play in a control matchup. Holding mana leak plus snare/or just cryptic on turn 4 is so much better..
--Regular tron is still horrible to go up against.. If anyone reads this far into the post, I'd love to hear input on how you handle the pairing. It seems like they run so much gas with playlets of karn/wurmcoil/ugin now that you just die.. lol
Overall, it was a fun day! Despite the amount of land destruction that took place..
I'm not dismissing the whole list as a disaster. I don't think its horrible, or will never win any games.
I do think I would never play a list like that, and I do think you've made some poor choices in building it.
Not sure what you consider nikolich's current run of the deck to be, as his most recent tournament result is pre-jace, and all of his stream content I've seen is more about him testing different things out and less about him narrowing down the precise best list.
I think negate has been quite strong in the past. I've played it myself. I would not sleeve it up mainboard for a tournament this weekend. There are a lot of very creature-heavy decks that are popular right now, that negate may often be a liability. I would much rather play a 3rd logic knot or a mana leak over that negate. If you were already on 3 knot 1 leak and wanted another counterspell (like UW control sometimes does) then I think the negate is more defensible.
Gearhulk is generally played with nahiri, but its not the easiest thing to cast. On top of that, jace incentivizes you to hold onto extra lands, which hurts gearhulk. Since you're playing geist, you don't even need more lands to be activating colonnade consistently.
I disagree that jace "only has to be played in a different way" here. Tapping out on turns 3 and 4 for geist + jace leaves you very very weak to most opposing decks. Geist won't defend jace very well, and jace will be able to bounce a creature, but there are a huge number of decks where this simply isn't very good. Because you're playing geist and no boardwipes, you don't have the ability to turn a bad board position around, something you will need if you're tapping out on turns 3 and 4 for things that barely effect the board.
I think queller is a lot better when combined with jace (as it has flash, and is functionally a 3 cmc counterspell.) I think most of the queller lists are better off going more in on the tempo plan game 1 (as the traditional pre-jace lists do) and consider playing jace in the board for grindy matchups.
That being said, if you felt you had to play more creatures main and also play jace main, clique or queller are better by nature of being interactive.
I have not been playing a ton of jeskai since the unbanning (my time has been pretty split among a number of archetypes) but here's where I am:
The sideboard is a little bit of a pile. I'm still on 3 jace primarily because I want to be seeing him as much as possible until I can make more conclusive opinions on him. I've been testing out entreat instead of secure as well (with and without opt in place of serum as well), but if I were playing something sunday, I'd play safe with secure.
I know its a little different from most traditional lists (1 bolt, 1 blessed alliance main, only 3 snap, etc) but I think its closer to what you want to be playing moving forward, if you want big jeskai.
Lightning helix has looked very appealing given all of the BBE decks, and its obviously good against a lot of the old decks.
That being said, we're seeing more and more creatures that are strong against bolt (resurgence of goyf, hollow one on the upswing, etc) , and they're being cast earlier and earlier than ever. You're going to be a bit stuck with bolts in hand more than you used to, and you're going to be casting path in the early turns more often than you have in the past.
On top of that, I think mainboard lifegain is also very important, but I don't want to play rev here. Its possible rev is correct, but I would rather skew towards the hyper-fast decks right now. Thus, blessed alliance makes the 5th lifegain spell, as well as being good vs larger creatures. There are 2 more bolts in the board for decks like affinity and humans. In the past, people have boarded the remaining helixes for these types of matchups, but again, I value the lifegain much more highly right now.
The second spell snare is also here to help out when we're on the play and we're playing fewer bolts.
I have played a lot of blue decks in modern, and 4 snapcaster has always felt great when you're playing 4 bolts, and much worse when you're not.
Its possible 4 is still correct, but 3 has felt quite fine so far. I think if 2 jace turns out to be better, then cutting it for the 4th snap might be good.
I have chatted with Nikolich on Facebook over the past few days over what he thinks is good and have tweaked my deck since talking with him and you. I am running the 2x Jace/1x Gideon split as he is. He has also moved away from secure the wastes but I am still running it as it has closed a lot of games..
Not to be mean, but you couldn't get me to touch this list with a 10 foot poll.
You seem to have built this list with a bunch of questions in mind (should I play geist/queller? should I play search? should I play big jeskai?) and compromised on all of them. Having a focused, streamlined deck is a lot better.
With that in mind:
I think the queller/geist/23 land deck should not play jace.
I think the 24-25 land/fatcaster/big jeskai deck should not play mainboard geist.
gearhulk is not very castable with only 23 lands. Jace is much better with boardwipes. Geist is much worse with boardwipes. Geist is better with cryptic commands. Jace is better with 2 mana counterspells. Geist and jace don't work together very well.
While all of these things are my opinions, I wouldn't consider many/any of them to be terribly controversial.
I do have more controversial opinions (I would never sleeve up gearhulk for a tournament in less than a week, nor would I sleeve up mainboard negate)
Okay despite the unnecessary tone of your response to my list, you do raise some fair points.
However, I think is foolish to think the whole list is a disaster when it is only slightly modified from that of Benjamin Nikolich's current run of the deck. He runs a 1x of negate mainboard as well and has had incredible luck with such a thing. The same applies with gear hulk in which he runs 24 lands as opposed to my 23. And it is impossible to say that the difference of one land makes torrential gear hulk impossible.
Secondly, Jace only has to be played in a different way in order to make geist effective. He does have a -1 ability to bounce opposing creatures and being able to spot remove on your opening turns and then turn 3 geist into turn 4 jace is definitely something effective.
I would like to see your deck though if you could? I will admit I have been lost on what to run with the unbanning however I would not say this list is as bad as you said
I'm curious as to why youre playing a 3-1 split on snap and fatcaster when you have plenty of wincons in Jace and Gideon and Colonnades already.
I think that running the 3-1 split just works out better in the late game.. Colonnades die easily in the current meta but I think that running 3 is right.. and Gearhulk is the same mana as a snap cryptic... Plus him as well as secure the wastes are the only instant speed threats that can be cast on your opponents end of turn.. I will admit that the deck feels like it is running too many threats but I think you have to now to beat out mirror matches and decks running bloobraid elf
Also, I think I could see myself running restoration angels at some point in the future rather then the geist.. I think that I jeskai flash list would be interesting in the current meta
I'm curious as to why youre playing a 3-1 split on snap and fatcaster when you have plenty of wincons in Jace and Gideon and Colonnades already.
I think that running the 3-1 split just works out better in the late game.. Colonnades die easily in the current meta but I think that running 3 is right.. and Gearhulk is the same mana as a snap cryptic... Plus him as well as secure the wastes are the only instant speed threats that can be cast on your opponents end of turn.. I will admit that the deck feels like it is running too many threats but I think you have to now to beat out mirror matches and decks running bloobraid elf
looks like everything is in order. going with the geist and jace maindeck is somewhat unfamiliar territory.
not sure about going down to 1 azcanta in the main. maybe move one of the jaces to the board
cutting a tarn in the land base seems sorta odd. also not running a basic mountain is a risk you gotta be aware of. i think it would be reasonable to cut a colonnade since you have more aggressive elements to close out games.
assuming the sideboard is just the usual generic stuff
Yeah I may run one mountain as well.. I took it out recently because there wasn't a lot of mana destruction in my local area, just blood moon so it seemed redundant at the time to run more mountains then they are already making me.. lol
as for geist and jace - I think it has been working really well.. He does an excellent job at bouncing their blockers and protecting Geist.
And with the Azcanta I've been running into them too often when I have two main deck and I feel like drawing it in the later turns is almost a dead draw. If it is in the opening hand I love it though lol
It's working fine for me. I like that additional angle of attack that Geist gives me.
Comments:
* 2x Search for Azcanta main even without Secure the Wastes or PWs main: three reasons for this. First, the card is just obscenely good IMHO, may be even stronger than Jace himself as a value engine. Second, I can grab wincons with Azcanta after sideboarding. Third, taking burn spells and value cards is actually usually enough to win the game even without a noncreature finisher;
* Only 1x Field of Ruin: I tried more, trust me, in this version you don't want more than 1. I would play 2 or 3 in a control version with Jace main and no Geist, but here it's different;
* Stony Silence and Timely Reinforcements making their way back in the sideboard: I haven't played these 2 for a long time. They seem well positioned now. Stony Silence locks MonoGreen Tron while Timely is solid vs Bloodbraid Jund. I like the additional hate both cards provide vs Affinity and Burn respectively and Lantern is still a thing in my meta so Stony is another card they have to mill. I'm also liking Timely in the Jeskai mirror and it seems to be one of the best ways to curve into Jace;
I like the list! I was playing around today and sort of like a burn geist list I threw together.. I run only 3x geist and one torrential then an extra electrolyze and then tried Chandra in there and she works wonders... It plays less control and more with an aggressive feel and she works well with Jace because you can brainstorm bad cards on top of your library and then use her plus ability to zap your opponent for 2 and clear them from the top
Quick question though: Why doesn't the deck play Kozilek, Butcher of Truth? I feel like for 10 mana having access to annihilator as well as drawing four cards on its cast is far greater than ulamog ceaseless hunger?
Other than that, I'm excited to join the forum since i've mostly been an elves and jeskai player for a while
I tried the geist list and I think he is definitely good in the sideboard as a 2x of because he wins some matches straight up; however against a lot of the ponza land destruction and eldrazi tron, you want to just win the long game by countermagic
It's really good in the beginning turns and with the way the format is going with big tap out plays I could see it getting even better.
Yeahh.. I also cut back to 1x search for azcanta so that the number of torrential gearhulk targets is more.. So far it feels pretty good.. I also really like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in this sort of build as he has immediate use more so then in the more spell based versions..
Mind you, this probably isn't anything that I would take to a major tournament or something but at the moment it has been a lot of fun to play and I'll probably try it tomorrow at FNM
I am currently playing around with 3 geist and instead of supreme verdicts I have been using settle the wreckage and it has been working really well. My friend owns Tron/Eldrazi Tron so i've been playing some practice matches with him and I see a huge difference in games won than that I took to the Starcity Open.
I really am a huge fan of the 3/1 snapcaster torrential gearhulk style (because I really like torrential gearhulk... kind of a pet card) and I could see running that since settle the wreckage is an instant so it can be targeted for flashback. Overall the deck just seems to play faster and doesn't need to wait a long period of time to finally turn the corner and win
--Do you think the deck is capable of running without Wall of Omens or would you consider it essential?
--Has anyone tried an enchantment heavy build with like mainboard runed halo and like ghostly prison?
--Is Sphinx's Rev still used in the decks.. I noticed those on this last page of the forum do not have it currently. Was just wondering if it was considered a dead card now with JtMS being a thing
My deck was as followed:
4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (32)
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
4 Serum visions
4 Path to Exile
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Mana Leak
2 Logic Knot
1 Spell Snare
1 Negate
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Steam Vents
2 Hollowed Fountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Plains
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Spirebluff Canals
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Detention Sphere
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wear//Tear
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Dispel
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Celestial Purge
2 Runed Halo
1 Ventilions Clique
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
So overall I did pretty well. I went 4-5 with all losses going to game three's.. If anyone is interested in a detailed breakdown of my matches just let me know and I'd be happy to =)
But some overall thoughts after playing 9 long rounds and watching others play as well.
-- Gideon isn't suited well currently in the format. Often you are getting one 2/2 onto the field before he's removed and his emblem isn't anything game changing - I think moving forward I may be more interested in trying either Jace Architect of thought or like Gideon of the Trials..
-- Running 2x Geist of Saint Traft in the sideboard was the excellent strategy that won a lot of matches. I would side them in if we went to game three and by then they boarded out most (if not all) of their removal which made for aggro wins from left field. I played against Mardu in my final match and had him dead by turn 4 with a combination of burn and geist swinging.
-- I think running 3x Jace might be the number we are looking for. After playing a lot of matches with him on the field, he just blew my opponents away by card advantage and I think you want to be casting him every game. However from my match ups (this may not be entirely right) but I think casting him like turn 5/6 is the right play in a control matchup. Holding mana leak plus snare/or just cryptic on turn 4 is so much better..
--Regular tron is still horrible to go up against.. If anyone reads this far into the post, I'd love to hear input on how you handle the pairing. It seems like they run so much gas with playlets of karn/wurmcoil/ugin now that you just die.. lol
Overall, it was a fun day! Despite the amount of land destruction that took place..
I have chatted with Nikolich on Facebook over the past few days over what he thinks is good and have tweaked my deck since talking with him and you. I am running the 2x Jace/1x Gideon split as he is. He has also moved away from secure the wastes but I am still running it as it has closed a lot of games..
Okay despite the unnecessary tone of your response to my list, you do raise some fair points.
However, I think is foolish to think the whole list is a disaster when it is only slightly modified from that of Benjamin Nikolich's current run of the deck. He runs a 1x of negate mainboard as well and has had incredible luck with such a thing. The same applies with gear hulk in which he runs 24 lands as opposed to my 23. And it is impossible to say that the difference of one land makes torrential gear hulk impossible.
Secondly, Jace only has to be played in a different way in order to make geist effective. He does have a -1 ability to bounce opposing creatures and being able to spot remove on your opening turns and then turn 3 geist into turn 4 jace is definitely something effective.
I would like to see your deck though if you could? I will admit I have been lost on what to run with the unbanning however I would not say this list is as bad as you said
Also, I think I could see myself running restoration angels at some point in the future rather then the geist.. I think that I jeskai flash list would be interesting in the current meta
I think that running the 3-1 split just works out better in the late game.. Colonnades die easily in the current meta but I think that running 3 is right.. and Gearhulk is the same mana as a snap cryptic... Plus him as well as secure the wastes are the only instant speed threats that can be cast on your opponents end of turn.. I will admit that the deck feels like it is running too many threats but I think you have to now to beat out mirror matches and decks running bloobraid elf
Yeah I may run one mountain as well.. I took it out recently because there wasn't a lot of mana destruction in my local area, just blood moon so it seemed redundant at the time to run more mountains then they are already making me.. lol
as for geist and jace - I think it has been working really well.. He does an excellent job at bouncing their blockers and protecting Geist.
And with the Azcanta I've been running into them too often when I have two main deck and I feel like drawing it in the later turns is almost a dead draw. If it is in the opening hand I love it though lol
and the sideboard is normal:
2x Runed Halo
3x Dispel
1x Disdainful Stroke
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Detention Sphere
3x Supreme Verdict
1x Celestial Purge
1x Wear//Tear
1x Rest in Peace
4x Flooded Strand
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
3x Island
1x Plains
3x Celestial Colonnade
1x Sulfur Falls
2x Glacial Fortress
1x Spirebluff Canal
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Torrential Gearhulk
3x Geist of Saint Traft
Planeswalkers (3)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Spells (26)
2x Cryptic Command
2x Electrolyze
2x Spell Snare
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
2x Logic Knot
1x Negate
1x Secure the Wastes
4x Serum Visions
1x Search for Azcanta
I like the list! I was playing around today and sort of like a burn geist list I threw together.. I run only 3x geist and one torrential then an extra electrolyze and then tried Chandra in there and she works wonders... It plays less control and more with an aggressive feel and she works well with Jace because you can brainstorm bad cards on top of your library and then use her plus ability to zap your opponent for 2 and clear them from the top