Quote from zcowan »Btw I am loving the new Jace! I have done a lot of testing against spirits/control/phoenix/hardened scales in the past few weeks
I'm playing with it too.
How many copies are you testing?
I'm stuck on 1, opponent seize it one time but it's not my only wincon so I'm not tempted by a second copy.
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So it's been a really long time since I've posted but just wanted to share my recent successes with UB Taking Turns.. I really wanted a variant that could beat creature matchups and then have a lot of disruption postboard for non-creature matchups and this is what I've come up with.
4 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers:
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mine Effects:
4 Dictate of Kruphix
1 Howling Mine
Spells:
1 Commandeer
3 Serum Visions
1 Opt
2 Fatal Push
1 Dead of Winter
3 Cryptic Command
3 Gigadrowse
3 Exhaustion
4 Time Warp
3 Temporal Mastery
2 Part the Waterveil
Lands:
8 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
3 Polluted Delta
2 Prismatic Vista
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Temple of Deceit
3 Watery Grave
3 Drowned Catacomb
1 Gemstone Caverns
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
1 Dispel
1 Fatal Push
1 Commandeer
3 Thing in the Ice
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Narset, Parter of Veils
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OMG Timewalkinonsunshine, I saw this card earlier today at work and was like.... now that is a Taking Turns spoiler haha... so insane
Definitely wouldn't fit into the mainboard.. but I think you and I share a similar sideboard strategy of going less combo and more value, and this fits perfectly.
I really like to trim on dictates and extra turn effects after sideboarding, and having access to a solid creature who is hard to get rid of and allow you to cast copies of things like exhaustion for only 1 blue mana is insane... PLUS you can use Jace to brainstorm cards back to the top of the deck for recycled value... seems nuts! UGH IM SO EXCITED.... MY BODY ISNT READY haha
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Since Magic’s origin in 1993 with the printing of Ancestral Recall and Time Walk, many players have been drawn to the alluring power of blue. In Vintage, decks utilize Time Vault and Voltaic Key to chain together infinite turns if left uncontested. Sadly, in modern these cards are not legal – however, there are some incredibly powerful cards within the format at our disposal!
At its core, “Taking Turns” is a blue control-oriented combo deck that wins by chaining together a number of extra turn effects to build a critical advantage in land-drops and card draw until a significant win-condition can be utilized.
With this deck, players are provided with a unique style of game-state-evaluation. A lot of the strong-resource denial comes from bounce effects and restricting opponent’s mana. Unlike Storm that requires a lot of card spots for rituals and cost reducing creatures like “Goblin Electromancer”, Taking Turns only runs on average 8-10 extra turn effects meaning that the rest of the deck can be dedicated to disruption.
As you will see throughout the forum, there are a lot of different ways to build this deck. As a less common combo deck we lack a "definitive list" which promotes creativity when brewing. A lot of your deckbuilding decisions will stem from your local meta.
OFFICIAL DISCORD: https://discord.gg/K6WnFzZ
Join Us For Additional Discussion!
Lastly,
A sincere thank you to ~Purk and ~xenob8 for their dedicated previous work on this forum
As mentioned above, there is a general "core" to the deck however a lot of the smaller changes (such as splashing a second color) are determined by individual preference and your local meta. It is recommended that newer players picking up the deck start with a mono blue version to get a feel for its play-style and the combo itself first before making changes or attempting to splash another color.
17 96.8% / 95.6%77.2% / 69.1%51.1% / 41.0%28.8% / 20.8%
18 97.7% / 96.8%80.7% / 73.0%56.3% / 45.9%33.8% / 24.9%
19 98.4% / 97.7%83.8% / 76.5%61.2% / 50.6%39.0% / 29.2%
20 98.9% / 98.3%86.4% / 79.6%65.8% / 55.2%44.1% / 33.7%
21 99.2% / 98.8%88.6% / 82.3%70.0% / 59.6%49.3% / 38.3%
22 99.5% / 99.2%90.5% / 84.7%73.9% / 63.7%54.3% / 43.0%
23 99.6% / 99.4%92.1% / 86.8%77.4% / 67.7%59.1% / 47.6%
24 99.8% / 99.6%93.5% / 88.7%80.6% / 71.3%63.8% / 52.2%
25 99.8% / 99.7%94.6% / 90.4%83.5% / 74.7%68.2% / 56.7%
26 99.9% / 99.8%95.6% / 91.8%86.0% / 77.9%72.3% / 61.1%
27 99.9% / 99.8%96.4% / 93.1%88.3% / 80.8%76.0% / 65.3%
28 99.9% / 99.9%97.1% / 94.2%90.2% / 83.4%79.5% / 69.2%
This is especially important in a deck like Taking Turns because a lot of our "high value" combo cards cost greater than 5 mana so it is essential that we do not fall behind on land drops. Being in blue does provide us with access to cantrips and we do play a number of cards that allow us to draw additional cards each turn - however; it is recommended that your mana base be between 22-24 lands.
When it comes to colors, Taking Turns has a major advantage over many decks in the format in that a majority of the lands are basic islands. This means that we are generally strong to Field of Ruin and Blood Moon strategies.
Without going too far into detail, when it comes to color splashing it is recommended by Patrick Chapin in his book "Next level Deckbuilding" that in a two color deck you run at least 13-15 sources of each color. For a three colored deck it is recommended that you have 18-19 lands dedicated to your primary color (which in this case would be blue) and then determine the remaining color splashes based on cards you are attempting to cast. For example, if playing a UR Taking Turns build and you want to be able to cast Anger of the Gods by turn 3 against creature decks - you should have about 13-14 red sources available to consistently cast the spell.
All of this being said, below I have included some popular nonbasic lands found in different taking turn builds and the rationale as well as the recommended number to play.
Official Rulings for the card listed under "A Detailed Strategy Guide", because there isn't enough time in the world for your opponent to pull out their phone and google everything!
20 Island
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Inkmoth Nexus
Spells:
1 Ancestral Vision
4 Gigadrowse
4 Serum Visions
3 Remand
3 Exhaustion
3 Cryptic Command
4 Time Warp
3 Temporal Mastery
3 Part the Waterveil
2 Howling Mine
Enchantments:
4 Dictate of Kruphix
Creatures:
2 Snapcaster mage
Planeswalkers:
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
A lot of his newer content involves GB Rock however further back on his channel he has several videos about Taking Turns with very solid commentary!
As you can see from his build, he also runs a single Ancestral Vision. This is done occasionally to increase our odds against grindy matchups that involve a lot of discard. Besides that, this list follows the "general core" almost perfectly.
Strategy:
"Dictate" builds (as they are referred to) of Taking Turns use both Dictate of Kruphix and Howling Mine as cheap tools to draw additional cards every turn.
Pros:
Cons:
Daniel Wong - Grand Prix Vegas 2017
Daniel Wong - Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_f6wsEBvzAmMAl7pY1othw
Strategy:
"As Foretold" builds (as they are referred to) of Taking Turns use the card As Foretold as a way to cast multiple spells in a turn. This style of Taking Turns also abuses cards like Ancestral Vision and Wheel of Fate since they can be cast for free without needed to be suspended when using As Foretold.
Pros:
Cons:
Pascal Maynard - Channel Fireball
Saffron Olive - MTGGoldfish
Shaun McLaren - Starcitygames
Strategy:
"Turbo Fog" is a style of Taking Turns that originated in Standard with the printing of Nexus of Fate/card] and Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. Unlike traditional modern Taking Turns builds, this deck uses a combination of ramp in the form of: Utopia Sprawl and Fertile Ground; and Fog effects such as: Fog and Angelsong to prevent combat damage until they are ready to combo. Once assembled the deck wins by tutoring for their copies of Nexus of Fate with Search for Azcanta and win through the power of their planeswalkers.
Pros:
Cons:
Autumn Lily - Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe2oALFdqAczE9r6lNpovBw
Gabriel Nassif - Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1py233U9XMeP9Dw_OPwnoQ
4 Arbor Elf
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Eternal Witness
Planeswalkers:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Spells:
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Angelsong
2 Remand
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Fertile Ground
4 Cryptic Command
2 Time Warp
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Nexus of Fate
3 Breeding Pool
2 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
2 Dispel
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wrath of God
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Stony Silence
1 Negate
3 Dampning Sphere
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Path to Exile
Strategy:
This is a unique Boros-colored (R/W) "Taking Turns"-styled deck that uses cards like Chance for Glory to take extra turns and Glorious End to end opponent's turns abruptly. To prevent themselves from losing the game they play Gideon of the Trials and Sundial of the Infinite to end the turn before the "you lose the game" trigger.
Currently lack enough footage or information about the deck to properly assess its pro's and con's. But this is an option for those who want to get away from blue or win through another unconventional condition.
Jeff Hoogland - Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0OFObRNMjSsnuEMGA-K29Q
4 Wall of Omens
2 Platinum Angel
Planeswalkers:
4 Gideon of the Trials
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Gideon Jura
Spells:
1 Angel's Grace
3 Faithless Looting
4 Path to Exile
1 Anger of the Gods
4 Chance for Glory
4 Glorious End
1 Day of Judgment
4 Madcap Experiment
1 Wrath of God
4 Arid Mesa
2 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 marsh Flats
2 Mountain
6 Plains
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
1 Rule of Law
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Settle the Wreckage
Modern is a format that prides itself on diversity. Looking at the top 32 of any large event you will see a wide spectrum of decks and it is the primary reason that whenever GW Hexproof/Bogles or Burn come in first place - no one bats an eye.
As a mono blue deck the combo is far more consistent however you rely on bounce effects and Chalice of the Void as a way to hold back every deck in the format. Alternatively, by adding a color you have access to a lot of strong resources such as Stony Silence in white to combat artifact decks like Hardened Scales and KCI, and cards like Terminus and Settle the Wreckage against the many creature/tribal decks in the format.
Splashing a color also provides very little adjustment with the manabase as the deck is still primarily blue, and only requires 1-2 sources of the splashed color by turn 3 or 4 which is easy achievable.
Below I have Included decklists of each splash I could find. Personally, I have been running a Jeskai build for the past few months to have access to Lightning Bolt as well the strong white sideboard hate cards in the format.
4 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers:
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts:
1 Howling Mine
Enchantments:
4 Dictate of Kruphix
Spells:
4 Time Warp
1 Part the Waterveil
3 Temporal Mastery
4 Gigadrowse
3 Exhaustion
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Cryptic Command
1 Commandeer
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Cascade Bluffs
5 Island
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
3 Thing in the Ice
1 Crackling Drake
2 Gelectrode
2 Abrade
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Commandeer
2 Surgical Extraction
The sideboard is also unique in that it runs Gelectrode. In a deck that runs mostly spells, it is very easy to continuously untap Gelectrode to ping an enemy's board down. With access to red, you also are able to play: Anger of the Gods and Abrade as seen in Daniel's list - but you also have access to cards like Blood Moon, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Young Pyromancer, etc..
2 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers:
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts:
2 Howling Mine
Enchantments:
4 Dictate of Kruphix
Spells:
1 Collective Brutality
1 Commandeer
2 Cryptic Command
3 Exhaustion
2 Fatal Push
4 Gigadrowse
2 Part the Waterveil
4 Serum Visions
1 Snapback
3 Temporal Mastery
4 Time Warp
3 Drowned Catacomb
1 Flooded Strand
2 Gemstone Caverns
6 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Snow-Covered Island
2 Sunken Hollow
1 Temple of Deceit
1 Watery Grave
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Collective Brutality
1 Commandeer
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Thing in the Ice
1 Thoughtseize
4 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers:
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts:
2 Howling Mine
Enchantments:
4 Dictate of Kruphix
Spells:
3 Serum Visions
2 Opt
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Path to Exile
3 Exhaustion
4 Gigadrowse
2 Cryptic Command
4 Time Warp
1 Part the Waterveil
3 Temporal Mastery
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Gemstone Caverns
7 Island
3 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Prairie Stram
3 Glacial Fortress
1 Temple of Enlightenment
3 Terminus
3 Thing in the Ice
2 Stony Silence
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Negate
2 Dispel
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
Alternatively, if you are playing against a deck like GB or Jund and they lead on a turn 1 Inquisition of Kozilek and you have a Commandeer - it would be considered the "correct" play to remove two lesser effective blue cards from your hand to gain control of their discard spell. In the GB Rock/Jund matchup - their clock comes from their creatures like Tarmogoyf but it also comes from their clean removal and discard effects, so being able to use their spell against them is a strong play.
Ultimately, the most important part of the early game is that we survive to turn 3/4 and make consistent land drops
Safely casting this comes down to the board state however. For example; if an opponent is playing burn and your life total is 4 but they no longer have any cards in hand or creatures left on the field - turn 3 may seem like the correct time to resolve a Dictate or Howling mine. This would be the wrong play because it would allow them two chances to draw 4 points of burn within their fourth turn.
This is something I struggled with for a while in playing the deck. Often EOT Dictate on your opponent's third turn seems like the best play - however if your hand still has disruption and lands to play then actually casting it on turn 4 is often correct. Unfortunately this is not the most "mana efficient" however, it allows you to untap on turn five and safely combo.
Additionally, depending on the game state by turn 4, sometimes casting Jace, the Mind Sculptor can be the correct line. This will be discussed further in the next section.
For example, if you are playing against a deck that has even a single blue mana open.. even with 7 lands in play, it is safer to cast a gigadrowse tapping the remaining land and then follow-up with exhaustion, then it is to resolve a Temporal Mastery and have your opponent Spell Pierce it and then win the game.
Actually one of my most embarrassing losses while piloting this deck was against an opponent who was running Amulet Titan and they randomly had a Remand in hand. I had cast three or four extra turn effects, tapping out each time, without any responses. Then randomly at 6 mana I cast a Part the Waterveil (not awoken obviously) and he used Remand to bounce it to my hand. In that moment I had exhaustion in hand and could have cast that twice instead but I wasn't thinking he would randomly cast something several turns later...!
That was until I started playing Taking Turns shortly after!
In traditional control decks like Jeskai or UW, tapping out to play a Jace or Teferi without protection can prove to be disastrous. In order to keep their hand full of resources they need the continuous +0 brainstorm effect or the +1 of Teferi. With this strategy, Jace is being underutilized.
In Taking Turns, all of Jace’s abilities are being used to their full extent.
To better understand its utility, I consider Jace, the Mind Sculptor to be a turn 4 or a turn 11 play.
In the first circumstance, Jace is an enabler. We assess the game state as being safe for another turn – cast Jace – and then brainstorm a Temporal Mastery to the top of our library or bounce their only creature to their hand. With both plays, we guarantee that the following turn we either start the turn with an extra turn effect or with a Jace in play. Setting up a temporal mastery is the preferred option obviously, as it allows us to double-spell with either another Dictate or exhaustion in case we fizzle.
In our second circumstance, Jace can either be our set win condition or a way to get more extra turn effects by bouncing Snapcaster Mage to have more access to our graveyard.
When used as the win condition we play him and immediately start using the +2 ability. Since we don’t intend for our opponent to have another turn, it is usually correct to fateseal yourself to improve the consistency of our draws. There are a lot of decks where attacking is difficult and you have to win by exiling their library. The plus side to this strategy is that when their hand becomes their library and you pass turn (almost always with exhaustion in play) they will most likely draw an extra 2-3 cards because of the Dictates and Howling Mines in play.
In UR Variants that run 3-4 Lightning Bolt, having access to bouncing Snapcaster to flash them back, we can quickly present lethal within a few turns. With one bolt in hand, one in graveyard, and a single Snapcaster Mage you could: Bolt – Snap – Bolt – Bounce Snapcaster with Jace – Snap – Bolt for 9 damage (without including Snapcaster attacking each turn)!
Hopefully in discussing Jace in the context of Taking Turns, you as the reader understand that he is not to be played like a Control deck but almost as a completely different card.
The following tips are examples of strong technical play that will hopefully prove helpful in certain matchups. It is my goal for this section of the forum to grow over time with player feedback!
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Just watched the video yesterday, and it was awesome as always! I really like how you talk out your paths to winning.. That's something that i've tried to get into the practice of doing. It is so easy to just draw seven cards and play, but if you know what you're working towards you make better decisions!
I will say that you definitely make the deck look easy..
Would love to hear your thoughts Daniel or even see a video potentially about Sultai Reclamation and how to improve the deck from where it currently is. The deck plays a lot like Taking Turns from my experience so far, so you would probably find it easy to pick up and play
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I've been super busy lately (just got my nursing license and start working next week!) so I haven't had too much time for magic lately but I plan on working on the forum again. Lots of changes to add as Simic Turns and Bant are getting a lot more love!
I plan on playing this weekend at a small PPTQ at our local shop with UR. Eventually I want to start experimenting with growth spiral and whatnot and maybe try that Wilderness Teachings deck
Just figured i'd update everyone!
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So I've really been struggling to figure out exactly how to go about building jeskai.. it seems good in theory having access to bolt as well as white in the sideboard - I've been trying a lot of different angles
Tonight I ran one mainboard timely reinforcements and it was meh; now tweaking with mainboard path as well as bolt and trying spell snare
It's tough because Taking Turns doesn't have enough high tournament places to determine a "best" version in the meta
It also doesn't help that everyone at my LGS is a total spike and makes playing the deck (especially those games I win) miserable
Currently I am sitting at:
4x Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mine Effects (5)
4x Dictate of Kruphix
1x Howling Mine
Spells (27)
4x Serum Visions
3x Lightning Bolt
2x Path to Exile
1x Spell Pierce
1x Commandeer
2x Cryptic Command
3x Exhaustion
3x Gigadrowse
4x Time Warp
3x Temporal Mastery
1x Part the Waterveil
5x Island
3x Flooded Strand
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Polluted Delta
1x Mystic Gate
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Prairie Stream
2x Steam Vents
1x Temple of Epiphany
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Gemstone Caverns
3 Terminus
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Celestial Purge
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Stony Silence
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
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Went really well!
I lost to spirits but only because the guy cheated in the first round and I didn't catch it... he spell queller'd my time warp and I didn't catch it -_-
But I won the other match extremely well... Having access to bolt and terminus makes it a lot easier
The land base also felt perfect! I found myself taking very limited damage from shocking but always had access to the needed colors!
Can't wait to continue experimenting with it
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That being said I went to a super FNM tonight and played UR... couple of notes
I tried the single blood moon in the maindeck and it over performed. I played two matches against two different spirit players (one UW and one Bant) and won both rounds because of it. I may have gotten lucky but they were really low on basic lands and had mostly caverns and unclaimed territories..
Also.. I tried crackling drake and agree that it is really strong.. but I sort of want to experiment with young pyromancer sideboard.. my thought is that he puts a very fast clock into play that goes wide so it isn't necessarily weak to spot removal that they may have left in.. And also, since it goes wide with tokens, if you fizzle and pass back to a creature matchup you can easily just chump block... Just a thought (will let you know once I have tested it some)
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In regards to creature base, snapcaster is still an all star in this deck but I have moved away from him and am currently running Mission Briefing instead. If you are interested in mono blue, the casting cost isn't really difficult as double blue is easy with 18 islands and it's ability to also mill irrelevant cards has been super useful. I'm not really a fan of baby Jace as it's plus once flipped doesn't really do anything relevant and it dies to all forms of removal in the format.
HOWEVER, thing in the ice I would argue is the way to go. I have been playing with 3 mainboard for the past couple weeks since Ravnica was released and it makes the deck incredibly consistent. With 3 Thing in the Ice, 2 Part the Waterveil and Jace - that makes a total of 6 win conditions that easily fit into the deck without negatively affecting the combo. I also run 4 serum vision and 2 opt so it has been extremely easy to flip Thing within 1-2 extra turns and then win. The only downside is that it makes creature removal good against the deck in a way that normally they would side out after game one. I kind of have fixed that through using gigadrowse and exhaustion as a way to tap their lands before playing thing and it has worked.
With the whole howling mine/dictate part - I don't really think there is a definitive. I tried search for a while and was convinced it was the best thing but I think I was lying to myself. You almost never want it to flip as it just becomes a blue land (since most of the time you aren't really going to loot with it and cast an extra turn spell in one turn as it requires too much mana)
Since assassin's trophy is now a thing, I have just went back to 4 dictate 3 howling mine since I haven't been seeing as much targeted artifact removal. Actually with Knight of Autumn being thrown into a lot of GWx decks lately, I could actually see myself cutting a Dictate in place of something like Ancestral Vision again..
Hope this helped.. sorry for the length lol just super tired after a week of school and in the mood to talk magic haha
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