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  • posted a message on [Primer] RUG Scapeshift
    Quote from YWQMD »
    Quote from micah1 »
    Did you all see Hooglands list on Gathering Magic today for BtL? Not impressive, but I like the manabase (because it's identical to mine Smile )

    Saw the same article and his list had me intrigued, since I'm looking for a few URx decks to jam Jace into. What's the list that you're running, and why exactly is Hoogland's list bad? I don't know enough about BTL Scapeshift to know what's optimal and what isn't.

    The first thing is running Cultivate and Hunting Wilds with 2 Farseek. Generally there are 2 copies between all of those cards, and no more than 1 Cultivate and Hunting Wilds total, since they fill the same role. I like Farseek better with Jace in the mix though, so I'd consider swapping from my 1 Fareek 1 Wilds to 2 Farseek. I would not however, run 4 of those altogether.

    The second thing is that as good as Jace is, Cryptic Command is more important. I would never sign up a blue Scapeshift deck with less than 4 ever. At that point I might as well play another deck.

    The third thing is running 2 Snapcaster Mage. It's defendable, but like we've mentioned that we're a bad Jace deck, we're a terrible Snapcaster deck. It's there for a reason, but two isn't a good idea, and it's an even worse idea in a list that's running 12 ramp spells instead of 10.

    Beyond that, preliminary testing with Jace exceeded my expectations. The Brainstorm feels much more relevant with the deck than I had anticipated. Whether or not it dies then, that Brainstorm feels really good.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] RUG Scapeshift
    It wraths a lot more than Eldrazi. Being able to kill Gurmag Angler and Death's Shadow has been great, although that might become less of a problem with Jace around.

    I've been on BtL for a while now. I was a strong supporter of RUG for a long while, but at this point I would have a hard time going back. Closest I got was with the printing of Hour of Devastation and Hour of Promise.

    Did you all see Hooglands list on Gathering Magic today for BtL? Not impressive, but I like the manabase (because it's identical to mine Smile )

    Also, that Jund list is... way more different than I expected. The last Jund Shift deck I saw was based around using Dark Petition as extra copies of anything you needed. Perhaps TitanShift would have been a better place for that? It seems a little all over.
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  • posted a message on Mono-Red control project or The Hunt for Red Controlber!
    At this point I've actually dropped Skred entirely so I'm at 13 Mountains 4 Caves 4 Quicksand. I'm also up to 4 Talisman because that card has been consistently good against basically everything. Tanglebloom is still staying in there anyways, but I might make it into Radiant Fountains. I still have yet to draw it against burn. List again: https://deckbox.org/sets/1919265

    Flame Jet seems unplayable. I don't think Cycling would add more to the card than Incinterate would. Players only is a no-go.

    Avarax seems like it would be good at grinding card advantage (especially without the Crown-Hunter Hirelings) but I think I'm going to stick with Beetleback Chief for now at least. Costing one less in a "21" land deck is a real advantage. I think I'll get around to trying it at some point though.

    Mind Stone seems like it would be fine, but I think I'd still rather have Pristine Talisman. Gaining 1 a turn is better than a card often enough.

    Alchemist does block and does provide a fast clock, but it dies to everything that isn't Firebolt. I don't think I'd want to play it. Right now their best removal targets are Martyr of Ashes and Beetleback Chief, neither of which feel great to kill.

    Mono U Delver is a nasty awful grindfest. Game one is very very favorable, but games 2-3 I have trouble getting Curse to stick when they're running a million cantrips, counterspells, and Hydroblasts to remove it after it resolves. They get more, cheaper counterspells and Stormbound Giest... it's just not a fun g2-3, but still winnable. Any good suggestions? Just max Pyroblast and pray?

    If I could slot some sideboard cards into the deck, I'd definitely want 2 more Martyr of Ashes so I would have more of a prayer against Heroic and Bogles (despite being 2-0 against Heroic and 1-0 against Bogles). I haven't played against the Tron control decks yet so I don't know what that matchup feels like. I might cut the Molten Rains until then. I'm in a similar spot against Affinity and Gorilla Shaman. I'll find out how much I need my cards when I finally get the matchups I added the cards for. So basically I haven't seen a majority of my sideboard in any games, but my 19 card sideboard would be 3 Electrickery 4 Molten Rain 4 Pyroblast 4 Tanglebloom 2 Martyr of Ashes 4 Gorilla Shaman.
    Posted in: Paper Pauper and Peasant
  • posted a message on [Primer] RUG Scapeshift
    I've briefly mentioned Jundshift on here before. I think this is a better place to talk about it than RG Titanshift, but it's still probably not quite the right place. I wouldn't want a super prolonged discussion, but here isn't a bad starting place. Considering making a new thread entirely, perhaps?

    As far as my opinion on the Jace question, um... it's a good card. We should still be playing it. Too good to pass up. It definitely inspires a little extra interest in RUG over BtL, but I'm not sure how many of the problems of RUG that BtL fixed get fixed by adding Jace.

    Jace isn't that great in either deck I think (still haven't had a chance to play with him) but I'll start off on BtL (my list: https://deckbox.org/sets/1712264 ) since most of you haven't said much about it. I think it's a 2 of, maybe a 3 of, in the deck. Unlike RUG, BtL has a much harder time getting out a turn 3 Cryptic, but a turn 3 Jace is more plausible and there won't be as much tension between them as a result. It's also a powerful dig spell if you can protect it. I think you can probably cut the third Scapeshift for a Jace and one of the flex slots. If he ends up being great, a third copy may join in. As far as optimizing the deck to make Jace great, obviously more cheaper removal, and more cheaper boardwipes. I've been on two Supreme Verdict for a while (absolutely no regrets there and I was considering going up to 3 before the unbanning) and I was (am) considering going up to 2 Anger of the Gods to help in the rougher matchups, despite it hurting the mana. Anyone have experience with Kozilek's Return over Anger? That's something I've wanted to try for a long while in BtL.

    Any blue Shift player can say that Snapcaster Mage is not close to its best in the deck, but we play it anyways. I'm pretty sure that Jace is in the same category. With these suggested changes, Snap does get better, but not by a ton. There still isn't a high amount of useful targets even if some of them are very good. Perhaps going down on ramp (Farseek and Hunting Wilds) would improve the card enough to make me want a second or third, but not right now.

    As far as cards that are invalidated, I'm going to start off with Search for Azcanta. The card is much worse with the additional land disruption the format is (was?) packing, so I think it was sketchy before the unbanning. Now, you don't need it for any sort of long game when Jace does that job better. Beyond that, various (mostly sideboard) secondary win-cons are worse when Jace does the same thing maindeck, and more. Probably the best exclusion to that is Obstinate Baloth which wasn't primarily used as a secondary win-con anyways. After going down to 3 Baloth in the sideboard for a Chameleon Colossus, I'm considering boosting up to 4 over Colossus again. I really like that card.

    Even before the Jace announcement I mentioned I was looking at going up on Anger of the Gods. I literally had the 2 extra Angers sitting on top of my deckbox to be added to my sideboard over Crumble to Dust and Nissa, Vital Force, just the day before the announcement. I was also debating a Verdict in one of those spots instead. I really like boardwipes, and our worst matchups tend to not like seeing them.

    In a more worried tone, is Jace unbanning good or bad for the deck? The sort of decks that run Jace were good matchups, but we have a very hard time interacting with Jace outside the stack, although RUG plays Bolt so that helps for them. I wonder how much trouble he will be for us (once again, still haven't gotten to test).

    Going into misc. you're saying that Affinity is a bad matchup? I've found it to be closer to 50-50 or even favorable. Perhaps that's RUG specific compared to me on BtL. When I was on RUG I always was armed to the teeth (3 Ancient Grudge sideboard, 3 Angers main) for that matchup because I would always play the Affinity player at my LGS.

    Purklefluff, I'd love for you to keep us updated on Roast. I've wanted to try it but never pulled the trigger. Same with the 1 cmc counterspells. Also to you, where does Hour of Promise+Boseiju stand then? I really liked Boseiju in the sideboard while I was playing it, but not so much anymore, especially without Omen, which I agree should go.

    What are everyone's opinions on Engineered Explosives right now?

    I also saw someone mention Course of Kruphix as an option. I really like the idea, despite never having played it in Scapeshift. Is it worthwhile despite giving opponent's removal targets? Opinions?
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  • posted a message on Mono-Red control project or The Hunt for Red Controlber!
    I noticed fountain as an option and is definitely worth considering. I'm up to 3 Talisman currently as well.

    As far as Quicksand goes, it's been very good and is the only reason I can beat Inside Out, while still being relevant in basically every matchup (that runs creatures). I could see playing a Fountain in the list, it's just annoying to flood on colorless sources that also don't count towards skred, which has thus far been probably the most disappointing card. I've played against burn once and only really won because of rough mulls on their part.

    I think fountain for the early burst life would help couple up with the slower stuff to actually get me in the late game. I'll get some more games in and see where it takes me.
    Posted in: Paper Pauper and Peasant
  • posted a message on Mono-Red control project or The Hunt for Red Controlber!
    I was trying to accrue card advantage using spells, but that would certainly help a lot! I'm amazed at how much natural card advantage the deck has with Magma Jet, Arc Lightning, Firebolt, Staggershock, and even the Beetleback Chief (although I realized this is in the Paper Pauper forum, so this list isn't 100%). -4 Chief +3 Crown-Hunter Hireling +1 Staggershock is the easier fix for that. If they'd actually just put the card on MTGO I'd have probably done that ages ago...

    Also, the Tanglebloom was for Burn because there isn't much good lifegain in colorless (hence the Talismans maindeck) and you've already mentioned that going aggressive doesn't seem to help the matchup.

    Edit to avoid double post: Pristine Talisman is being surprisingly awesome for me. I'm thinking about playing more.
    Posted in: Paper Pauper and Peasant
  • posted a message on Mono-Red control project or The Hunt for Red Controlber!
    So I was working on this after playing against it online and I thought it looked fun. This is my current list: https://deckbox.org/sets/1919265 and it's fun. UB Control is a rough matchup, and I feel like Tron will be worse (although I haven't played against it yet) and obviously burn is bad. I was wondering if you guys could maybe give some sideboard advice?
    Posted in: Paper Pauper and Peasant
  • posted a message on [Primer] RUG Scapeshift
    I've played with it in Bring to Light and the card is good. I thought I'd already made a post about it.

    It actually made me somewhat comfortable with dropping a Scapeshift and the Farseek. It's a good card, although a tad slow. I don't think more than 2 will ever be correct.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] RUG Scapeshift
    So what do you guys think about Ranging Raptors? I like it, on looks, better than Farseek/Hunting Wilds. I imagine it will replace Wood Elves in Titanshift, and wonder what it could do for us, both RUG and BtL.

    I've been loving Hour of Devastation in RUG. Not having a real boardwipe has always been a real pain for me in the archetype, and is one of the big reasons I've been playing BtL instead. It's not a Verdict and doesn't always kill Death's Shadow, but Hour kills Gideons and Lilianas as well, which has been really useful. Even got a Karn with it once. Thoughts, Purklefluff? (You're kinda the "expert" on Omenshift here)
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  • posted a message on [Primer] RUG Scapeshift
    It plays a similar amount of disruption comparable to BtL lists. I dislike the IoKs, but other than that I like it (although I've not played it). Being able to Petition for Boseiju seems spicy.

    I hope this isn't considered off topic. If so, I vote having Bring to Light Scapeshift in the RUG Scapeshift forum is off topic XD
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] RUG Scapeshift
    It really is a flex land. I just dislike having it in my deck. In fact, the version I built mine off of ran the Sacred Foundry in that slot. I replaced it with the Canopy Vista since I found it annoying to draw the two least used colors on a land when I generally didn't need another mountain.

    On a side note, did you guys see this Jundshift List? https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-brg-39314#paper
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] RUG Scapeshift
    Quote from NilsH »
    Quote from spearman71 »

    The 11th mountain won me a game against eldrazitron where I had drawn 1 valakut and 3 mountains. I had to go off with 9 lands getting 1 valakut and 8 mountains. (He had 2 ghost quarter so I needed every mountain to make sure my triggers resolved.

    The Ghost Quarters doesn't matter as long as you have a basic Mountain left in your deck for each Ghost Quarter. A more detailed explaination can be found here:
    http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/666117-scapeshift-and-ghost-quarter-question


    If you math it right you don't even need that, just more lands.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] RUG Scapeshift
    I still disagree on Supreme Will, but once again that's an opinion when neither of us have done much testing.

    Misty Rainforests obviously go over the 3 fetches, and the fourth can be whatever. I understand the want for a 4 Misty Rainforest manabase, I just wanted mine better optimized for the Hunting Wilds instead.

    Needing that 11th Mountain for a 7 land kill can be game winning, but we all picked our own priorities. Instead I picked to help the natural manabase since my list already has it weakened for optimizing Hunting Wilds.

    Nature's Claim is generally brought in against decks that you need 8 lands to kill anyways, like Affinity or Bogles.

    Chameleon Colossus seems very good, but I will also say you didn't play any of the matchups where Obstinate Baloth is a star. They are there.

    Overall, good work. I've not top 8'd anything with Scapeshift other than FNM.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] RUG Scapeshift
    Since you said you based the list off mine, I'm essentially going to say you're wrong for not copy/pasta on the maindeck Smile

    Supreme Will is a fine card, but I don't feel like 3 is a good number. I'm playing with just 1 over the Worldly Counsel and it's been fine, but I don't think I want more. The two other slots would go to another Scapeshift (whenever you can get it) and the fourth Remand. I know that Remand is poorly positioned right now, but it's still exactly what this deck wants to be doing and is passable against every deck.

    As for the manabase, Misty Rainforests are correct over my fetches, and your manabase looks fine for the most part, but is suboptimal for a Hunting Wilds plan. You want to be able to get double white or double blue when needed off of it, which is why my manabase had 2 Breeding Pool and 1 Canopy Vista + 1 Temple Garden. Sacred Foundry is really not needed as R/W are the two colors you tend to need least, and the 11th Mountain is essentially never needed.

    As for your sideboard, I much prefer Nature's Claim over Back to Nature since it's more versatile. The rest is fine. You still have 5 alt win cons with 3 Obstinate Baloth 1 Chameleon Colossus and the Platinum Emperion package, and I plan on trying out a very similar sideboard in the future. I'd just want to be careful about losing points in your burn matchup if you start dropping Obstinate Baloths. Yes, Leyline of Sanctity helps there but it does die to Destructive Revelry and is hard to cast, but Slaughter Games is rare enough I wouldn't be worried about it, and discard is a pain but the deck can draw out of it fairly well if it's not backed up by Liliana of the Veil. Extra Supreme Wills help a lot there.

    I also dislike your sideboard plans for Living End. I would have been closer to your second sideboard plan even without seeing Slaughter Games. From the maindeck I would have gone -3 Supreme Will -1 Snapcaster Mage -1 Hunting Wilds -1 Farseek -1 Izzet Charm -1 Anger of the Gods +2 Negate +2 Rest in Peace +1 Chameleon Colossus +1 Madcap Experiment +1 Platinum Emperion +1 Obstinate Baloth and I'd leave in Supreme Will over Negate if I'm on the play. I'd only bring in two Rest in Peace as you can generally deal with the Living End plan very well without it and they are already playing lots and lots of ways to deal with Rest in Peace. It's there as a 1 time grave nuke. Expecting it to be more is wrong when they have everything from Nature's Claim to Beast Within to Abrupt Decay. As far as the reason for planning on taking out Farseek/Hunting Wilds it's that they run 8 land destruction spells between Beast Within and Fulminator Mage and sometimes even Avalanche Riders, so it can be difficult to even fire off a lethal Scapeshift, making me want spare wincons.
    VARIABLE: Going for a Protect the Queen plan is probably an option with Chameleon Colossus and Platinum Emperion. I'd want to test it out first, but if you can keep Beast Within and Living End from resolving it should work out.

    For your sideboard against Death's Shadow I think that Supreme Will is better than Izzet Charm.

    For wanting Back to Nature against Solemnity + Phyrexian Unlife, Nature's Claim gets the job done just about as well as you need it to as with Back to Nature.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] RUG Scapeshift
    I much prefer a 2-2 split between dispel and negate than 4 of one. Also, 4 Snaps just seems like too many even though you seem to like it. Most decks that run 3-4 Snap have 20+ business spells to target but Scapeshift generally has fewer.

    I also think you should try out Hour of Devastation, or at least be running Anger of the Gods maindeck.

    This is my decklist I've been trying. https://deckbox.org/sets/1751144 Not sure how well I like Prismatic Omen, but it's been fine. Hour of Devastation has been really good, and Supreme Will has been what I've wanted it to be. It's still an Impulse variant for the most part, but countering spells is still a very useful mode. Hour of Promise has been a solid one of, but more was cluttering the deck.


    As a question for everyone, has anyone tried out Nissa, Steward of Elements in RUG/BtL? Seems like the dig would be useful and she is moderately hard to kill if you cast her for x=2+
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