I’m working the Electrodominance version. Still discussing and testing new cards out. It doesn’t help that I’ve not been able to attend a modern event in a blue blood moon. I need to change up my list right now, but I’m still working out what I want to test next.
Back when as foretold came out, someone went and attempted to make a thread for it despite us discussing it here, but that thread has been dead for a while. I don’t know of a discord group.
What new/versatile tools do we have at out disposal that might help our Phoenix and jeskai match ups? I like v clique as an option for control, but not great against Phoenix. Playing in the scg classic this weekend and definitely feel they are my larger concerns currently.
Search feels like a better Thassa in this build. I prefer surveil to scry.
As much as I love bow, it forces me hard into green and is the only payoff card.
I’m with you on Chandra. You can cast the suspend spells if As Foretold is out, but overall, it’s still on my chopping block.
As I said, this is still testing different stuff. Mission Briefing is likely dropping to a 1-of, but no less. It’s incredibly powerful at what it does, but drawing the second one oft feels bad. Chandras will probably come out to test a different threat. Maybe I’ll go old school and play Ajani Vengeant, but the card advantage was one of the key reasons to play Chandra.
This is by memory as I’m not near my list: but this is the current adaptation. It’s hardly a list I’d take to an event and is still here to test different cards.
I disagree about it being gimped UW control. That’s like saying Vengevine is bad dredge.
That being said, I agree about the rest of that. As it stands in my testing, the cascade version outperforms the non-cascade list. I’m still trying to crunch numbers and gather more data to see where the room for improvement lays. I think the cascadeless version is one puzzle piece from being as strong, but that one piece hasn’t been printed yet.
Then again, the puzzle piece could be something I’m completely overlooking, like how a simple 1-of Bow of Nylea ended up being the last dab of glue in strengthening my cascade list (that card being included in all cascade versions is the hill I’ll die on).
Just as there were pros and cons in the early days to running borderposts, there are pros and cons to the difference between Cascade and Cascadeless builds. I’ve been firmly against the Cascadeless build until Electro, where I now believe it is meta and pilot dependent.
Why not run cascade spells? Because they severely hinder deck construction and limit early interaction. I can run lightning bolt, serum visions, and opt. I can play Search for Azcanta, a card I severely underestimated in my deck during construction and am debating running a third. In my cascade list, if I was against spirits and balance caught an unfortunate Spell Queller, I had to try to resolve another balance just to end up recasting that balance. In my cascadeless list, I’ve bolted a good number of Quellers and got to restore balance anyway. My favorite was attempting to balance at the end of their turn, catching a queller, then topdecking my gargy on my turn and suspending it, then bolt the queller for a full wipe on my opponent.
Why run cascade? There are cascadeless games where I’ll have one half of the combo, dig ten cards in one turn, and not find the other half. We have redundant ways to cast RB from our hand, but not really any redundant ways to get the RB. Just Tolaria West or eventually digging one out. In the cascade build, all you need is one cascade spell and you can cast it.
I still don’t know about JtMS. I haven’t tested him, but I just don’t like the kit he offers. I’ve actually been trying Chandra, Torch of Defiance (you know, the walker I’ve been adamantly against), and I’m kinda mixed. She’s better than I expected, but she still feels too clunky with her exile. I’ll keep testing the numbers. I kinda wish we had Dack Fayden in modern.
Ral is 5 mana. That’s too expensive for my blood in a deck that routinely deletes lands when it reaches 3. Cast it before you balance and the opponent already has lethal, probably. Cast it after you balance and your opponent will have had ample time to recover.
I’m not sure I get your reasoning. Taking out the lands depends mostly on holding Don Gargle in suspense. Electrodom lets you balance at instant speed, so you can do things like play a fetchland turn 2, let your opponent play their third land, crack your fetch, exile a spirit guide, and drop a balance to bring them down to one land while you get to fetch your second.
Even if you have the Don suspended, you can a) probably recover faster then them because you have more control on the timing, and b) you have big boy barry coming off suspend in a couple turns facing a board devoid of permanence.
I’ve found Electro actually gives you a lot more control over the pace of the game. You don’t always have to armageddon your opponent. Sometimes just hitting one or two of their lands can set up the win.
After I finish streamlining my list, I’ll take it to events and post results. As it stands, running white for Nahiri+Emrakul is actually a great boon. Discarding Emrakuls to constantly cycle through the deck gives a lot of inevitability in the grindier matchups.
Not sure how I feel about that list. While we can now run 1-2 mana spells, and some good ones like Opt, we become super reliant on As Foretold, which if we don't draw it we're spending a lot of our game trying to land it.
I’ve been debating either a grixis or America list, myself, as strict U/R doesn’t hold any synergistic finishers. I still think we’re just shy a card or two for a cascadeless list, but I’ll try to prepare a shell in case those cards show up.
Brain in a jar doesn't work the way you think it is. "Put a charge counter on Brain in a Jar, then you may cast an instant or sorcery card with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Brain in a Jar from your hand without paying its mana cost." and since RB cmc is 0 there isn't a way to cast it since it has to be equal and the jar can only start with a minimum of 1 counter and the same goes for Boseiju, Who Shelters All since RB doesn't have a casting cost we cannot cast it with Boseiju.
That said, try using the tried and true As Foretold combo since not only can we cast RB at 0 but it's a clock that lets up free up future mana. Also, is there a reason you aren't using posts?
Brain in a jar with a sac outlet lets you 1 shot the combo.
You put the brain trigger on stack then sac the brain. Then it remembers x=0 and lets you shortcut a 0 mana spell (take your pick).
As Foretold + Brain In a Jar together SHOULD be able to open up a borderpost-less list. Thats what Ive been exploring. You can use signets / talismans which are very elegant and let you branch into whatever colors you need instantly. Wish they would finish out the talismans with the other 5 enemy ones tho :D. You also get Mox Opal in any signet/talisman heavy lists.
Basically the goal is always the same:
+ Greater Gargadon suspended.
+ Way to shortcut 0 mana things. Either once: Brain in a jar. Or multiple times: As foretold. Or find one from your deck to slam with : Bring to Light. The Boseiju is for the bring to light plan mostly.
Depending on your list this SHOULD be enough. You either need to have lands stay so you can do things after, or break other elements like Monastery Siege is a great card. Maybe even bitterblossom IDK. Theres a lot of good artifact / enchantment / planeswalkers to break symmetry after a restore balance.
I feel like, at the very least; non cascade versions of the deck should be explored.
Cascade-less Balance is something that’s been explored numerous times in the past in here and I always enjoy its discussion.
I do not like the Brain plan. It relies on several pieces lining up and feels far too inconsistent. I’d rather run one of the expertise spells from Kaladesh.
I also do not like the Ancestral plan with Restore Balance. It feels too clunky with our main spell that relies on having few cards in hand.
I think Collective Brutality is a strong card in the cascadeless build, letting us strip cards from our own hand and killing early threats or taking counterspells from our opponent. Lingering Souls feels like a natural fit for a threat as well. Discarding to various spells including a Balance where we end up with more cards in hand and then turning into a post-balance threat.
Also, salutations all, it has been a long time. I dismantled RB several months ago for the first time in 6 years, as my focus has been elsewhere. I’ll probably rebuild it again soon, but I wanna see if Ravnica brings something interesting for us before I rebuild.
Build a 5 color Lands deck. There’s a thread for it I can link you to if you’d like. Be sure to exclude anything that would save you from LD. Abuse their system and make them understand why blanket rules do not work and stipulations are important.
I don’t know your financial situation, but if you can afford the normal for a gold bordered card, in response to them telling you not to use the card, pull up your phone and buy the normal right in front of them (or fake buy it) and tell them that that silly rule is only hurting them since you can easily get what you need.
Solve problems with spite. Turn the rules against the players.
To add, with this deck, you don’t get as punished for mulliganing aggressively. Due to the nature of balance, if you mulligan, you also effectively remove another card from your opponent’s hand.
Back when as foretold came out, someone went and attempted to make a thread for it despite us discussing it here, but that thread has been dead for a while. I don’t know of a discord group.
Raking Canopy for phoenix. Ricochet Trap and more Beast Within for Jeskai.
As much as I love bow, it forces me hard into green and is the only payoff card.
I’m with you on Chandra. You can cast the suspend spells if As Foretold is out, but overall, it’s still on my chopping block.
As I said, this is still testing different stuff. Mission Briefing is likely dropping to a 1-of, but no less. It’s incredibly powerful at what it does, but drawing the second one oft feels bad. Chandras will probably come out to test a different threat. Maybe I’ll go old school and play Ajani Vengeant, but the card advantage was one of the key reasons to play Chandra.
That being said, I agree about the rest of that. As it stands in my testing, the cascade version outperforms the non-cascade list. I’m still trying to crunch numbers and gather more data to see where the room for improvement lays. I think the cascadeless version is one puzzle piece from being as strong, but that one piece hasn’t been printed yet.
Then again, the puzzle piece could be something I’m completely overlooking, like how a simple 1-of Bow of Nylea ended up being the last dab of glue in strengthening my cascade list (that card being included in all cascade versions is the hill I’ll die on).
Why not run cascade spells? Because they severely hinder deck construction and limit early interaction. I can run lightning bolt, serum visions, and opt. I can play Search for Azcanta, a card I severely underestimated in my deck during construction and am debating running a third. In my cascade list, if I was against spirits and balance caught an unfortunate Spell Queller, I had to try to resolve another balance just to end up recasting that balance. In my cascadeless list, I’ve bolted a good number of Quellers and got to restore balance anyway. My favorite was attempting to balance at the end of their turn, catching a queller, then topdecking my gargy on my turn and suspending it, then bolt the queller for a full wipe on my opponent.
Why run cascade? There are cascadeless games where I’ll have one half of the combo, dig ten cards in one turn, and not find the other half. We have redundant ways to cast RB from our hand, but not really any redundant ways to get the RB. Just Tolaria West or eventually digging one out. In the cascade build, all you need is one cascade spell and you can cast it.
I still don’t know about JtMS. I haven’t tested him, but I just don’t like the kit he offers. I’ve actually been trying Chandra, Torch of Defiance (you know, the walker I’ve been adamantly against), and I’m kinda mixed. She’s better than I expected, but she still feels too clunky with her exile. I’ll keep testing the numbers. I kinda wish we had Dack Fayden in modern.
Ral is 5 mana. That’s too expensive for my blood in a deck that routinely deletes lands when it reaches 3. Cast it before you balance and the opponent already has lethal, probably. Cast it after you balance and your opponent will have had ample time to recover.
Even if you have the Don suspended, you can a) probably recover faster then them because you have more control on the timing, and b) you have big boy barry coming off suspend in a couple turns facing a board devoid of permanence.
I’ve found Electro actually gives you a lot more control over the pace of the game. You don’t always have to armageddon your opponent. Sometimes just hitting one or two of their lands can set up the win.
After I finish streamlining my list, I’ll take it to events and post results. As it stands, running white for Nahiri+Emrakul is actually a great boon. Discarding Emrakuls to constantly cycle through the deck gives a lot of inevitability in the grindier matchups.
Electrodominance pads the reliance on As Foretold greatly.
That’s a nice list. Looks similar to mine, but I prefer splashing white for sideboard options and for Nahiri + Emrakul.
I’ve been debating either a grixis or America list, myself, as strict U/R doesn’t hold any synergistic finishers. I still think we’re just shy a card or two for a cascadeless list, but I’ll try to prepare a shell in case those cards show up.
Cascade-less Balance is something that’s been explored numerous times in the past in here and I always enjoy its discussion.
I do not like the Brain plan. It relies on several pieces lining up and feels far too inconsistent. I’d rather run one of the expertise spells from Kaladesh.
I also do not like the Ancestral plan with Restore Balance. It feels too clunky with our main spell that relies on having few cards in hand.
I think Collective Brutality is a strong card in the cascadeless build, letting us strip cards from our own hand and killing early threats or taking counterspells from our opponent. Lingering Souls feels like a natural fit for a threat as well. Discarding to various spells including a Balance where we end up with more cards in hand and then turning into a post-balance threat.
Also, salutations all, it has been a long time. I dismantled RB several months ago for the first time in 6 years, as my focus has been elsewhere. I’ll probably rebuild it again soon, but I wanna see if Ravnica brings something interesting for us before I rebuild.
I don’t know your financial situation, but if you can afford the normal for a gold bordered card, in response to them telling you not to use the card, pull up your phone and buy the normal right in front of them (or fake buy it) and tell them that that silly rule is only hurting them since you can easily get what you need.
Solve problems with spite. Turn the rules against the players.