MTG Salvation

You said that having cards in only digital was inherently a problem.

Sure they are, not for nothing I am the one still *****ing about Inspiring Commander not being paper legal. But there are major problems and minor problems, and all the reasons (absurd format that nobody plays or even care about, autobanned cards with absurd power level etc) explain why is just laughable from you to say that a Gleemox and a Skyshroud Ambush are the same thing only because they share one single thing, being ditigal.

Vanguard avatars in particular are notable here because they were mostly designed in such a way that they would function perfectly well in paper.

Except you are wrong here. See the Avatars of
Akroma,
Arcanis,
Dakkron Blackblade,
Eight-and-Half-Tails,
Enigma Sphinx,
Flametongue Kavu,
Hermit Druid,
Higure the Still Wind,
Jaya Ballard,
Jhoira of the Ghitu,
Maelstrom Archangel,
Master of the Wild Hunt,
Momir Vig Simic Visionary,
Peacekeeper,
Sliver Queen,
Stonehewer Giant

All are clearly designed for being digital handled since they all either do things at random in such way that is unpractical to replicate the effect 100% as intended in digital even if you use dices or create random cards from nowhere. Sure, many works too in paper-only, but if for you the Avatars are ok for paper in that case you must say the same for the historical jumpstart cards too. Or all or nothing.

Also, most silver bordered cards would be fine in regular magic if you tolerate stuff like the ridiculous workarounds that have been suggested for making these cards work. Should they print Booster Tutor in black border because it can work?

I actually already play silver-bordered cards in kitchen table game with my friends, so it's not that big deal. What makes me really upset is that I won't even have a physical copy of any of those cards and I will be forced to do some crappy proxies instead, if I wanna ever get a chance to play them in EDH with my playgroup, and that is sucky. I would be more ok if this stuff was actually silver-bordered so it would see actually a real life print.

Why is this moment of divergence and not the Arena beginners set, or the Magic Online Vanguard Avatars, or Gleemox?

Because those are absurd and cornercase examples. Arena Beginners were almost all of them contructed unplayable (except Inspiring Commander and maybe Soulhunter Rakshasa), and anyway, I'm the first saying that they should've never did Inspiring Commander digital-only instead of printing him in a monowhite commander pre-con that disperately needs this kind of card draw engine (what the hell, it even got the frickin word COMMANDER in his own name!)

Nobody play or even know the existence of the regular paper vanguard and you think people would be offended for digital only vanguards? please

And don't get me with the Gleemox. A strictly better Alpha Mox that it even AUTOBAN itself in his rule text. A card that would be legal in no format anyway, is such broken.


On the other hand, this 31 Jumpstart Historic cards are a completely, radical, different issues from the ones you listed. First of all because are regular magic cards and not some absurd and obscure variant nobody ever hear about (like vanguard), they are available outside the tutorial decks, they do not have a "this card is banned" in the frickin rule text, nor they're silver bordered and their power level, mechanics and flavor is insteresting and balanced enough (we even got a whole cycle of 5 new planeswalkers of each color) to be playable in multiple formats (EDH, Brawl. Pioneer, Modern, Standard, Pauper, maybe even Legacy and Vintage) and that's why feel an enormous waste to have this design potential in digital only magic.

Quote from TetzaHexloq »

Maybe you haven't played enough to grow to hate it? Kind of impossible to refute really cause you either hate it or just haven't played enough.

Dude I said it. Since 2012 (9 years of playing) multiple playgroups in all these years, both LGS, Comic-cons and Kitchen Table, all enjoying exactly like me. Even in this same thread you have multiple evidence of people enjoying the format besides me.

You have the cognitive bias that simply because you or your friend don't like something or is simply not for you, then all the world have your same feelings about that thing. Get rid of that illusion.

Quote from Flamebuster »

White had card draw, albeit subpar, early in the game in the form of Truce and Armistice, among others, excluding cantrips. Blue also had direct damage at one point. Black could kill off artifacts (Gate to Phyrexia and Phyrexian Tribute).

It's not that it can't happen, it's just that it's a rare thing and when it does happen then there's usually a catch affiliated with that particular colour's dynamics and philosophy.

'buster

Seems you are confusing what are effectively "rare effects" bur incolor pie and what are rare effect that are rare exactly because they were color pie breaks and error designs.
Early magic is experimentation of unexperienced designers, and therefore, full of errors that cannot be taken as precedents for anything in the present or future.

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

I'm so going to proxy this. Don't take my money WOTC, since you don't want it

Yeah, I'm going to proxy my Davriel too anyway. Thank god WotC doesn't own casual kitchen table games yet.

You're welcome to not like it, but your personal opinion doesn't define its success or failure.

Oh by the way, my dear, it is not only my personal opinion as this thread and many others on the internet clearly shows. But seems you like to see only what you like to see. That's ok, I don't mind your opinion. I know already WotC is not receveing a good feedback of this whole bull*****

Quote from rowanalpha »

Quote from Evil Never Dies »

I will repeat myself again : this digital-only experiment is a failure that nobody likes, both on intent and execution.

I like it. Flawed, yes, but its got neat ideas. You're welcome to not like it, but your personal opinion doesn't define its success or failure.

You like the existence of cool designs you will never play on almost any format such Modern, EDH, Pioneer or else? Yeah me neither.

Quote from andcallmedude »

Can in the name of the lord somebody explain to me, what's the digital part of this card that wouldn't be "reasonably" or "logistically" be doable in paper?

It's perfectly reasonable. It simply means they are trying out new things as well. The digital environments seems like a good place to try out new things regardless whether they can be done on paper or not. "Wins" seems to imply they creature you control did not die due to state based actions immediately following the fight while the other creature did. I bet we'll see it in paper.

I will repeat myself again : this digital-only experiment is a failure that nobody likes, both on intent and execution.

Can in the name of the lord somebody explain to me, what's the digital part of this card that wouldn't be "reasonably" or "logistically" be doable in paper?

Finally people realizing this digital only thing was a total failure in execution and with some little tweaks most of thse could had been paper legal for eternal formats.

Quote from cryogen »

Sol Ring! Drink!

Your well thought out and impeccably argued argument has most surely convinced me of the error of my ways.

Oh wait...

In all seriousness though this is the problem with talking about the ban list. You cannot just hand wave away inconsistencies. Your argument against PT and SP basically boiled down to "a bunch of people complained about it so it got banned" despite the fact that Sol Ring (and friends) might be one of the most complained about cards ever, to the point you've apparently made a drinking game about it. Noticing the problem yet?

for all those who were curious to why Mox Amber's art wasn't painted by Volkan Baga (me included), you should read the following piece written by Mox Amber's painter, Steven Belledin: http://stevenbelledin.blogspot.co.il/2018/04/mox-amber.html

In short:
- Belledin's 1st draft was VERY similar to Baga's work, but was scrapped by WOTC (you can find the draft in his article).
- WOTC specifically requested Belledin to deviate from Baga's Moxen style.
- Belledin "strongly suspects" that Baga will eventually commission his piece for Mox Amber (if so, I assume it will get released as a top-level promotional card...?)

“Dice rolling is evil, and will never be done in black border because randomization is evil. Coin flipping is perfectly okay, because reasons.” -Wizards

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You know, I didn't actually think that my Commander deck would get much from this release, this year's product being tribal and all, but damn. Path of Ancestry? That card is bonkers!

I don't think there's ever been a land in Magic that produces gold mana, but enters the battlefield tapped as a consequence and nothing else. Rupture Spire and Transguild Promenade request an extra mana to keep them around. The Vivid lands only have two uses. Grand Coliseum deals damage to you. But this? No additional cost at all. All it does is enter the battlefield tapped.

And dare I mention that it has an upside. Sometimes this card just scries for free!

I think Path of Ancestry is going to be, or at least ought to be — some folks may not realize how good this card is — a new Commander staple. Every deck with at least four colors should probably be playing this card. Decks with at least three colors might also want this card, but I'm not 100% positive about that yet. Decks with tribal themes definitely want this card regardless of their number of colors.

OP, don't take this the wrong way, but you really just sound like you are crying that the player you are taking out of the game isn't letting you benefit further from it. Maybe instead of complaining that the losing player isn't helping you out after you kill them, you should look at what's wrong with your deck that it hurts you that badly to not get the combat damage triggers that turn. I get that you rely on them for CA and lifegain, but you should be expecting that if your attack is going to take someone out, you won't get the triggers that turn, and plan accordingly.

Its especially whiny since you suggested that you would be ok with them conceding before combat, so you would be able to attack someone else. You have a problem with them conceding after a lethal attack because it harms you by denying you triggers, but you are fine with them conceding before combat because it lets you essentially take them out for free while still getting to attack someone else. Newsflash, that behavior his harming another player by causing them to get attacked on a turn they otherwise wouldn't be.

Other players are under no obligation to help you win, so why would they when you are about to take them out of the game? Are you really expecting them to be "nice" to you, when you clearly aren't being "nice" to them? Have you considered that by conceding they are being "nice" to the other players at the table by not letting you get too far ahead, or maybe repaying them for something they did earlier in the game?