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  • posted a message on Digital only cards revealed
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    You know now that I think about Perpetually

    That is in paper look at Praetor's Counsel and stigma lasher


    Exactly what I said.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Digital only cards revealed
    [quote from="Rosy Dumplings »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/823077-digital-only-cards-revealed?comment=9"][quote from="Evil Never Dies »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/823077-digital-only-cards-revealed?comment=6"]
    Congratulations, you've just marked a card and are now disqualified from the tournament.


    Congratulations on not reading what people actually write:
    For example, just put an easily removable mini-sticker on your front card

    I work in a newspaper shop and all the time we put sticker on books and products that once they are removed is like they never been there in the first place (not even obsesssed collectors that want their book totally immaculate complain that). Obviously tournament rules would need a slight change in that case (which would be forbidden to put stickers before the game starts but accepted if a "perpetually effect" card need to be reshuffled in deck and naturally, said sticker removed at the end of the game on front of the public eyes of everybody.)

    I hope I don't even have to specify that obviously you would put the sticker on the front part of the card, and not the back part (because it seems I am overstimating the cleverness of humanity seeing how is this thread going).
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Digital only cards revealed
    To give you an example:

    Fixed Sphere 3
    Artifact
    T: Add one mana of any color of a color identity of a face up card you own.
    Sacrifice this: Draw a card.

    This way it works with mechanics that make the card revealed and not specific to the commander.


    And what you gained exactly, design-wise? Commander is currently the only one format that cares about the color identity concept anyway ( exactly because the color identity is intrinsecally bounded and imply the existence of a commander that cares about it)
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Digital only cards revealed
    Quote from rowanalpha »
    [quote from="Evil Never Dies »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/823077-digital-only-cards-revealed?comment=13"]

    If I play this card in my deck, I could put deathtouch "markers" on multiple cards in my deck before the game, cast the rat when its opportune and then just not reveal the card that I put the marker on at the time and play a card I drew later with that marker already on it.


    This objection is totally nonsense. It's the same "trust" you give to your opponents assuming they won't play more than x4 copies of a single card (or in EDH breaking the singleton rule). With your argument, I could say that I could play 5 or 6 copies of Lightning Bolt or a crucial combo piece just to increase the rate to see it and simply not playing it if I already played my x4 copies.
    That's why in serious tournaments like a PTQ, all decks are actually checked before people even start the game.


    As before, this abilities can with handwaving in casual, but the tracking and hidden information issues make them untenable for competitive play. Basically, the computer game framework means they can be implemented fairly in black border but they are all effectively silver-bordered in paper.


    Cards with "hidden information" issues are a thing in eternal formats. Goblin Game is a thing. Wheel of Misfortune is a thing. Negan, the Cold Blooded is a thing and so on. Cards with "hidden agenda" ability are a thing. The fact the abilities aren't practical (because you need a literal piece of paper and a pen or in case of Commander AFR a complete different sets of D10, D12, D8 etc) doesn't mean that they are not doable and viable and ejoyable for the casual crowd in black border games.


    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on 31 new digital-only cards for upcoming Jumpstart : Historic Horizon
    Well this seems utterly crap for the game as a whole. But at least unlike the crossovers, I can just ignore these and pretend they don't exist. It's not like I'll ever see one.


    I have the exact opposite feeling. I love some of the cards spoiled (Like Davriel), it's perfectly doable in paper and I hate that I'm forced each time to print a proxy version of it as the only way to have it and ask playgroup if they are fine with it (and probably won't), instead of having it as default accepted and legal in EDH.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Digital only cards revealed

    "perpetually" effects? Just use anything as counter or marker, it's not that multiple counters with rules baggage or things that has to be tracked by being writed on a piece of paper (like the Conspiracy cards or any "choose a secret opponent" card) doesn't exist already. We even have already the emblems and all the cards with "Until the end of game" texts like Praetor's Counsel or Stigma Lasher for "perpetually" effects to track for the game.


    I am sorry but perpetually effects could not work in paper.

    If two card with the same name are shuffled from my graveyard into my library and one of the lm perpetually has flying, the game will know which one has flying when I draw it. The fact that a perpetually altered card can keep its specific traits even if it is moved into hidden zones where opponents cannot verify that you are not cheating is not replicable.


    It IS doable. For example, just put an easily removable mini-sticker on your front card (or more likely, your protective shield), and you and your opponent can recognize it without actually have the marker visibile in non public zones. My god guys, I've seen much more worse and more convolute situations in EDH than this stuff, I can't believe me and my playgroups are the only genius that have literally no problem handling this situations because are already legal much worse complicated effects combined in EDH, while you all seems to not be able to handle such things. You are confirming that are right the ones saying that Wizard need to "dumb the game down", because seems that even eternal players can't handle what at my eyes (and the ones of my playgroup of friends) is perfectly doable without confusion, because we've seen much worse going on on EDH games.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Digital only cards revealed
    There's literally nothing in those mechanics that couldn't be made doable also in real life, with relatively easy, simples, practical and elegant solutions:

    Davriel -2? Nothing different from the already existing Urza, Headmaster Academy. Just print or write out in a piece of paper all his abilities (I can even imagine that in booster packs they could just make a card token that comes always with him, with all his abilities listed, exactly like they do with lists of double-face cards or dungeon cards), then roll a D8 for get your random result. This is no more complex than what already players must do for both the commander and premier set of D&D forgotten realms.

    Manor Guardian - Tutoring for a specific card without revealing what it is? Sure, nice gimmick, but nothing that wouldn't be doable in tournaments or even kitchen table games (just add a trusted third party for the search, like a judge or the LSG owner, exactly how this was needed with how Sylvan Library was worded). Unstable already proved that is not that big deal to ask to a third player of the game to do certain actions (Kindslaver, Subcontract etc)

    "perpetually" effects? Just use anything as counter or marker, it's not that multiple counters with rules baggage or things that has to be tracked by being writed on a piece of paper (like the Conspiracy cards or any "choose a secret opponent" card) doesn't exist already. We even have already the emblems and all the cards with "Until the end of game" texts like Praetor's Counsel or Stigma Lasher for "perpetually" effects to track for the game.

    Conjure? The most trivial, nothing more undoable than the Lesson mechanic or any "add cards outside the game" mechanic, just print the official list of all Conjurable cards and you are pretty much done.


    I knew I would be angry for this, because I see some truly fun, fresh and innovative mechanics (like Davriel -2) that would absolutely blast in any EDH game and will never be EDH legal. I can (relatively) see the argument to not make all this stuff at once standard legal because it could be intimitading for new players but for eternal enfranchised players? Come on, it's a piece of cake. This could had been totally something for the casual crowd for Commander, Vintage and Legacy (the most complex formats ever), where already a typical EDH game can be full of different kinds of unique tokens to keep track, different counters to keep track or emblems to keep track, or dungeons to keep track, or random effects, or dice roll effects that need D20 and D8 and D10, or lots of effects that need to keep track with a piece of paper or app like commander damages, poison, energy, experience counters, "choose a secret number, card name or player" effects" and so on, without being that big deal.
    What an opportunity truly wasted.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on 31 new digital-only cards for upcoming Jumpstart : Historic Horizon
    Also, Inspiring Commander is a massive color pie break.


    Absolutely not. It fits in the "draw only within a subset theme that white cares about"*, and white cares about drawing off for little creatures (see Mentor of the Meek)

    *White has a very narrow band of card drawing where it's focused on having to use a specific strategy (like say having a deck full of Equipment).
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2017-2017-06-05

    In fact white has already unlimited card draw for equipped creatures (Stone Haven Outfitter) or Aura, Equipments and Vechicles (Sram, Senior Edificer or because it gain life (Dawn in Hope) This is in total spirit of white card draw, there's no way you can tell me it's a massive break since it is exactly the type of narrow card draw white do since forever.

    Well that's entirely what they're doing this time


    Seems I misread MaRo answer somehow. But anyway, doing a Shandalar videogame cards 2.0 doesn't seems that great idea and I believe that any single card design could and should work in paper too (for example, even if isn't tournament or edh legal, you could play Urza, Academy Headmaster in paper by simply printing in a piece of paper all his abilities and just throw a D20 for the random result of each slot). What I'm saying that those card should be printable and playable also in papaer, I'm opposing the whole concept of "online only" thing for very little gain for a bunch of gimmick and silly designs and nothing else.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on 31 new digital-only cards for upcoming Jumpstart : Historic Horizon
    Quote from penguinarmy »
    I'd be more okay with digital only cards if they did things that would be impossible or impractical to do in real life. Example: an artifact that gives you a random card into your hand based on some color mana you pay into it (pay U get a blue card, pay WU get a white and blue card).


    Which is exactly what they not did last time they did the "digital only" cards. What is the reason to not have Inspiring Commander as a great card legal in EDH or even standard? Nothing. This is the kind of stuff I'm pissed of.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on 31 new digital-only cards for upcoming Jumpstart : Historic Horizon
    Didn't see a thread yet about it, so I will post it first.

    Apparently,Wotc had again the "great" idea to create for Arena-only players, cards that will never see the light of day on paper form.

    Here a screenshot of the wizards article about this product (that is currently obscured in the mothership site):

    https://i.imgur.com/jzqX10N.png

    We know the names of two cards already, but we dont know yet what they do :
    Ethereal Grasp
    Tome of the Infinite

    Mark Rosewater confirming this while also accurately avoiding to answer why they need to do this:
    https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/657602789371969536/why-are-you-continuing-to-make-digital-only-cards#notes


    I have to say I'm not a fan at all of the whole concept of "online-only" cards that are legals only in those digitals formats. It is an extremely frustrating concept for paper only players that enjoy to play Magic within all cards and strategies availables.
    It is not the first time they do this. They already did this with introduction cards for beginners
    . The worst thing is, that even if the cards never meant to be constructed playable, in fact few of those were good enough that would be today even staples in EDH casual games (Yes, Inspiring Commander, great draw engine extremely need it for monowhite or boros decks, I look at you)

    Now what if this time they make again, even unintentionally, new cards actually playable and extremely fun to play in multiple formats but that we will never have a chance to play them in any LGS tournament of any format or even in casual kitchen table games (I mean sure, printing them proxy is always an option, but is not normal that is the only default way to play them and not the extrema ratio way)?
    That's why I'm definitely NOT A FAN of this. It's even worse than the whole "Universe Beyond" thing (and I'm in favor of that). I mean, at least I know that in a way or another I will be able to play the UB cards in some way, those will never be legal in Commander despite being in black border and perfectly functional within the rules and color pie, no matter what.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Dominaria United and Kamigawa Neon Dynasty - New Sets 2022?
    So Samurai Jack : the Gathering, basically
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [AFC] Reckless Endeavor
    Quote from Xcric »
    can we talk about how ******* ***** terrible it is because of how random the results are at 7 god damned mana instead of focusing on the dice that anyone who runs this card will bring with them?


    I actually love it, it's definitely my cup of tea and I'm already running a proxy of it in some decks. It's a high risk, high reward card and for those who love to gamble it's ideal.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [AFR] Eyes of the Beholder— Destructoid preview
    Or you could just play any other 1BB or 1B removal and get way way WAY more for your money.

    This is just awful no matter how you look at it.
    This kills Blightsteel Colossus. Where is your Doom Blade now?


    Thank you, but I prefer nowadays Baleful Mastery XD
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Asmodeus last ability and Mairsil
    So, let's say Mairsil, the Pretender exiled with a cage counter Asmodeus the Archfiend (among X more cards with cage counters) and I activate the last ability Asmodeus has with Mairsil. What happens? Do I effectively returns Asmodeous and all cards with a cage counter in my hand again or nothing happens?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on [AFC] Reckless Endeavor
    The entire point of playing in paper is to not have a smartphone at the table, be "social" instead of anti-social.


    Being social has nothing to do about knowing the exact errata of a card or knowing how a card behave with other cards or knowing what card is legal to play and what is banned in what format in that moment. Unless you play in a high-tournament level where an expert Judge is always available, in regular FNM and LGS little tourneys (standard, modern or draft doesnt matter) very rarely (at least in my place) there is a guy that knows all the rules and thats why Internet is necessary in order to clear game rules controversy, which happens literally every single day, all the time, everywhere, for everybody.

    Its a card game, all you SHOULD need is the cards, which SHOULD explain themselves without the need to have oracle text for substantial rules to them


    Maybe in theory, but in practice, many cards differ greatly from what is actually printed in their rules text and that's especially true for an eternal format like commander where you can play cards from every expansion of every time (it's literally impossibile for example, without checking internet errata, what exactly is phyrexian and what is not since there's no real consistent criteria, or also many cards were printed without the correct text for mistake like Marath or Hostage Taker, or some cards works in a extremely counter-intuitive way because of how game rules changes over the years like for example being able to still doing damage and untap despite a card like Reconneisance says and was originally intended to remove the creature from combat exactly to preven that, and so on)

    So yes, this game it's a great and utter mess, and there's absolutely nothing you can do to fix it. Doesn't matter what in your head this game "should" or "would" be. The only thing matter is what this game IS effectively, and how players resolve their everyday problems, which is, inevitably, using the internet in a way or another. And the "issues" of dice roll is just the little tip of a big mess of iceberg that players need to pass in order to play properly and with all kosher crisms this game.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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