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  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    I mean, by that same argument, isn't 1v1 Commander a sign that WotC is trying to get rid of the Partner mechanic?


    No, because Partner is a mechanic actually made by WotC done multiple times, and the recent set Commander Legends proves they crazy love the mechanic and will to put it in future sets as well.
    On the other hand, not a single card in Magic that was made for commander ever mention the existence of Commander Damage. We have cards that outright mention commanders and command zone, but nothing that cares about commander damages. Which means that if this rules wouldn't exist, it would literally change nothing to the life to new players approaching to the format because not a single card would ever need an errata to fix that.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    I'm really not worried about it, but it's nice to have the option without needing to specifically build around countering it.


    There's no need to build around your entire deck or strategy. As I said, any black deck can run a Sorin Markov, which is both not game ending (so not unfun like instant win combos) but versatile and useful enough (and very difficult to answer if u dont run counters) to shut down life gain players and still do other stuff in the game. But really, life gain decks are such a minority in edh world that justifing "commander damage" only for their existence really isn't enough of a good reason alone. Even Oloro players, if it's in dominant position, can be reasonably beated by simply doing politics and alliances inside a multiplayer game, without the need of the commander damage rule.

    Combos are essentially running the format, and although competitive and casual are different metas, eventually people upgrade their decks and then tend to lean in to stronger strategies... like combos.


    If combo decks are a problem, then commander damages do almost nothing to stop them, because assembling any 2 card combo, it's much faster and efficent than wasting time to summon a creature, hoping nobody got removals meanwhile and wasting time with equipments and/or auras with multiple combat phases. Unless you are planning to one-shot always with a single combat, which is just another combo monster beating a combo monster and you didn't resolve nothing, because the combo problem is still there. Anyway, from a practical viewpoint, voltron is not a reliable strategy to beat combos, thats why in CEDH the only decks you see to contrast efficently combo decks are control, stax and/or hatebears archetype.


    Also, with Brawl, I don't think it's so much as WotC hating Commander Damage as it is having a lower life total in a 1v1 game. What would you set the Cdamage to? 15? 10? It just doesn't work as well.


    The only real reason the number 21 was chosen was simply because the original elder dragons when commander started were all 7/7, so exactly 3 attacks from them, which are 21, would kill the player. The origin of this rule is simply for very narrow flavor reasons, than for gameplay reasons.

    Also, with Brawl, I don't think it's so much as WotC hating Commander Damage as it is having a lower life total in a 1v1 game.


    If it's true that MTGO Commander 1vs1 has Commander Damages, while multiplayer Brawl that starts at 30 lifes in multiplayer still doesn't have commander damages, means in that case that lower life has no meaning for WotC and that definitely try to get rid of commander damages.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    Commander damage is a necessary counter for life gain.


    Theoretically. Practically, since when gaining tons of lifes is a thing in EDH playgroups? It's since 2011 that I played countless of games in cockatrice against players of all the world in every power level sauce and basically almost never lifelink is a problem, or even a thing. The only excepetion I can think of, are Aetheflux and Krirk decks comboing off with Bolas Citadel or other means, but at that point they will just straight go infinite by storming off and killing all players in the same turn. If you really are worried about life gain decks, just go black and play stuff like Sorin Markov or Tree of Perdition or Magister Sphinx that are much more quicker and efficent to shut down the problem.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    "to get rid of it just invites the format to be a degenerate combo mess. "

    -- that's not true at all. Without commander damages there are so many strategies viable : tokens, midrange, superfriends, control, tribals, reanimator etc. It's just voltron to be a very boring and predictable strategy. Also, a voltron deck without his commander (maybe because there is a certain Magistrate that prevent him to be played) is usually useless, all the archetypes I mentioned are versatile enough that can adapat and win even without the general. I can tell you this, because it's more than a decade that I play with my playgroups without the commander damage rule and we still find new strategies and commanders to play with.

    ...then again, if in a playgroup somebody wins thanks to Thassa+Demonic each time, no player will be fast enough to win through commander damages, because we're in straight cedh territory anyway then lol
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    It might be better just to combine Commander damage from partners into a single player rather than track separate commander damage for each partner.


    In multiplayer, it would still be a mess to track. Imagine in a 4 player edh each player tracking in paper 3 different sources of commander damages (or even 4 if anybody commander is stealed) that most of the time wont even matter, really isnt worth to do it. Voltron strategies are really a minority and works really only in 1vs1, since in multi, everything is more dispersive. Also, when somebody wanna actually make somehow relevant and successful the commander damages in a multiplayer, it either is one-shotting out from nowhere or just spiteful pick on against the same player, which totally a feel-bad and antisocial experience that just bring misery and grudges on the game. In my playgroup is since 2011 that we ignore that rule, and honestly, never missed again, thats why I can understand perfectly why WotC don't want to ever make a "commander damage matter" a thing in card texts, because is clunky, unelegant, memory issues and don't lead to good gameplay experience in general.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    As for Commander Damage not being a thing in Brawl, I think that's more because of the 25 life, 60 cards, one on one thing, rather than because they dislike Commander Damage. The difference between 21 damage and 25 damage is very small, and in a stalled board you can run through two sixty card decks much faster than four one-hundred card decks. Commander Damage is just another potential valve for ending the game faster.


    Actually Brawl is 30 lifes in multiplayer and 25 lifes only 1vs1. But I don't know if commander damage is a thing in MTGO 1vs1 version. Anyway, I personally see commander damage as an obsolete and inelegant rule (exactly 21 damages sounds a totally arbitrary and unintuitive number that only makes sense for the original elder dragons and few others) that only come up once in a while (like was mana burn back in the days), because from a gameplay persepctive doesn't really play that well, especially on multiplayer tracking. EDH is an already complicate enough format, I think they will definitely get rid of that rules baggage one day in a way or another.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    Quote from ThyLordQ »
    I wonder if White could end up as the color to play around with Commander Damage? They care about combat, they care about "fairness," and they definitely care about building up and protecting creatures, so it feels like it would be in their wheelhouse.


    I have a strong feeling that WotC personally hate the "21 commander damage rule" (and I can perfectly understand the reasons behind it) and that's why it's a thing that in 10 years of commander product was never mentioned in any single card (and probably never will), because they have no interest in supporting it, but since they do not control the rules of the format but the Rules Commitee, they can't officially delete it either. In fact, when WotC did their own commander variant, Brawl, they dislike commander damage so much that it doesn't exist as a rule in that format completely.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Witherbloom Witchcraft— LoadingReadyRun preview
    Best cards that I see as a Timmy Player:

    Marshland Bloodcaster : Not crazy good as a Treasonous Ogre but if you like to cast high cmc creatures, spells and/or enchantments, you want this card. Best support card for Vilis and Krrirk decks.

    Revival Experiment : very strong effect, Muldrotha best friend ever.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    You know, in my play group, we wouldn't bother playing wrath, doomskar or other basic wrath effects.

    --- I'll stop you right here. As you admit, that is your meta, but your meta is not equal to what is a card potential in a vacuum and how can be used in other EDH playgroups worldwide. My personal experience contradicts yours for example. And that confirm what I'm saying : that whoever says that black mass removals are always useless, it's only because have a limited game experience playing with the same cards and against the same people and judging a card in base of that bias.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    Quote from NeedAMedic »
    Quote from NeedAMedic »
    Quote from NeedAMedic »

    At 9 mana, it could be winning you the game instead of just clearing a few permanents. White can do better for 4 mana than black does at 9. For 8 mana, white can include artifacts and enchantments in the board wipe, and double as a tap land in a pinch.



    You clearly never played games where one-sided mass removals not only break any stall but directly win the game within an aggro strategy (big beasts or tokens army). Just because you never experienced this, don't assume every player play your same strategies. So a wrath of god will never win you any game the same turn you casted. An asymmetrical mass removal, can.

    All mass removal is asymmetrical


    Nope. Only for control and combo decks "all removals are asymmetrical". Many removals are definitely more asymmetrical than others, and black is king on this. You clearly confirm that your knowledge about commander games and strategies is quite limited and you are basing all your argument on that bias.

    All mass removal is asymmetrical because you choose when you play it. Not a difficult concept really.



    And still is true my statement, some mass removals are more asymmetrical than others. a Decree of Pain or in Garruk Wake's can do much more advantage and even straight win you the game in the good situation, a simple wrath will simply reset the board most of the time. As I said, you are wrong when you say that black mass removals are both "inefficent and worse" because only one of the 2 is actually true.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [Judge] Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and Karlov of the Ghost Council — Judge Promos for May to August
    I wish one day they will complete the cycle and make to all the members of the Obzedat their own individual card.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Quantum Quandrix— MTGGoldfish preview
    Quote from mtgartgallery »
    Is Ruxa finally the bear legend we've all been waiting for? Probably not, but beggars can't be choosers...


    It is the vanilla matter commander that casual players were asking since the print of Muraganda Petroglyphs

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    Quote from NeedAMedic »
    Quote from NeedAMedic »
    Black has Toxic Deluge and Damnation for board wipes that come close to on par with what white gets. None of the others you listed are better or more efficient than white's board wipes.


    If by "more efficent" you talk about mana value, than sure, you're probably right, but you can't say that a black mass removal that says "destroy all creatures and planeswalkers you don't control" is not better than any "destroy all creatures" effect. Black clearly do better than white in terms of mass removal at higher mana costs so you can't say that black is both worse and inefficent than white in every sense, because that's not true.

    At 9 mana, it could be winning you the game instead of just clearing a few permanents. White can do better for 4 mana than black does at 9. For 8 mana, white can include artifacts and enchantments in the board wipe, and double as a tap land in a pinch.



    You clearly never played games where one-sided mass removals not only break any stall but directly win the game within an aggro strategy (big beasts or tokens army). Just because you never experienced this, don't assume every player play your same strategies. So a wrath of god will never win you any game the same turn you casted. An asymmetrical mass removal, can.

    All mass removal is asymmetrical


    Nope. Only for control and combo decks "all removals are asymmetrical". Many removals are definitely more asymmetrical than others, and black is king on this. You clearly confirm that your knowledge about commander games and strategies is quite limited and you are basing all your argument on that bias.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    Quote from NeedAMedic »
    Black has Toxic Deluge and Damnation for board wipes that come close to on par with what white gets. None of the others you listed are better or more efficient than white's board wipes.


    If by "more efficent" you talk about mana value, than sure, you're probably right, but you can't say that a black mass removal that says "destroy all creatures and planeswalkers you don't control" is not better than any "destroy all creatures" effect. Black clearly do better than white in terms of mass removal at higher mana costs so you can't say that black is both worse and inefficent than white in every sense, because that's not true.

    At 9 mana, it could be winning you the game instead of just clearing a few permanents. White can do better for 4 mana than black does at 9. For 8 mana, white can include artifacts and enchantments in the board wipe, and double as a tap land in a pinch.



    You clearly never played games where one-sided mass removals not only break any stall but directly win the game within an aggro strategy (big beasts or tokens army). Just because you never experienced this, don't assume every player play your same strategies. So a wrath of god will never win you any game the same turn you casted. An asymmetrical mass removal, can.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    Black has Toxic Deluge and Damnation for board wipes that come close to on par with what white gets. None of the others you listed are better or more efficient than white's board wipes.


    If by "more efficent" you talk about mana value, than sure, you're probably right, but you can't say that a black mass removal that says "destroy all creatures and planeswalkers you don't control" is not better than any "destroy all creatures" effect. Black clearly do better than white in terms of mass removal at higher mana costs so you can't say that black is both worse and inefficent than white in every sense, because that's not true.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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