How do you guys do against aggro matchups? I'm really having trouble with Affinity, Zoo and Elves at least in game 1. I feel like I play enough removal but it still doesn't seem enough for those matchups. That's why I consider splashing red for Bolts and Helixes (maybe even Anger) hoping that will improve my aggro matchups while not significantly hindering my other matchups. Also, tron gives me trouble and splashing red would give me access to Sowing Salt.
I played him before but I had trouble with double white since I'm also running Liliana. Now I'm considering trying again since I quite like how he builds pressure quickly.
Regarding Amulet - If they resolve Hive Mind and have a pact in hand, disenchant doesn't help you because they receive priority as Hive Mind resolves and can pact straight away. Chalice on 0 stops them from actually using pacts but if they have a Hive Mind out only the original spell gets countered and you still get the copy. That being said, the strategy against them is pretty much what you said + Fulminator Mages to slow them down.
I'll definitely splash Red in the future but for now I'm sticking with BW since I'm still rather new to the deck and I want to find the optimal BW build before attempting splashes.
If you try Red let us know how it went - I'm really interested to find out if it's worth it.
Stony Silence is also relevant against Tron since it stops all of their eggs and oblivion stone. It doesn't wreck them - but it can slow them down significantly.
I'd also recommend running a few Mutavaults because it really helps increase the clock. Also, it's a rat!
And if you run Mutavaults it's good to have 1-2 Urborgs to have that B mana more consistently.
For the builds without Bob, consider Tombstalker. For one more B mana (compared to Angler) you get evasion which is important, IMO.
what percy and bone splinters are you talking about?
Percy = Abyssal Persecutor
And Bone Splinters as the means to sacrifice it.
Btw, what do you guys think of the newly spoiled Erebos' Titan? It's almost a vanilla 5/5 for 4 but I quite like the possibility of recursion - especially if you play Jotun Grunt.
How is Pack Rat performing for you guys these days?
For me - amazing. I'm almost always happy to see this guy.
Except for the classic turn 5 play, I've won many games by going T1 Thoughtseize/Inquisition taking their only removal into T2 Pack Rat and then unleashing the horde FTW.
I think it's not a dead draw in any matchup and I definitely run 4-of all the time.
Won against BW Tokens and All In Twin and lost to Elves and Grixis Twin.
Jotun Grunt: still completely happy with this guy as a 2-of
Wrath of God: I would prefer Damnation but *** has a much nicer price tag. However, I never had problems casting it since WW is not really an issue on turn 4+.
Archangel of Tithe: It's quite powerful but I don't think it's for this deck. Triple W is really hard to get and the abilities are not that good for us. I think Resto is much better in this deck.
I realised I have the most trouble with fast aggro decks so I'll try swapping Blade Splicers with Kitchen Finkses. Hopefully that should improve those matchups.
Also, I'm intrigued with the idea of playing a sword or two. Have you guys tried any swords? Which ones? How did they perform?
I don't think there are many people playing this deck so that's why this thread's rather quiet.
Are you happy with Kitchen Finks? I'm thinking about replacing my Blade Splicers with Finks just to try it out but sometimes I have trouble with double white cost. Maybe because I also run Liliana.
Do you find it easy to Inquisition T1/T2 and play Finks on turn 3?
Also, do you run any Fetid Heaths? I currently have none but I guess it can help you with the double white / double black on turn 3. But on the other hand, it doesn't play well with Mutavaults / Tec Edges so I'm not completely convinced. Maybe just as a 1-of
I was considering Death's Shadow but I don't think we're that kind of deck. At least we're not losing enough life consistently for it to be a good early threat. Even if we did, I would feel uneasy with a life total low enough for it to be of a significant size - especially against anything playing Snap + Bolt.
I'm in the process of getting the 4th Confidant so hopefully I'll run the whole playset soon.
Lili has been amazing for me - if she sticks she basically ruins any deck running blue. And with the amount of discard we're running it's not that hard to clear the way for her. Yesterday, she's done some serious work against UWR, Twin and Scapeshift. Against BW Tokens she's practically useless but I can live with that. All in all I really like to have at least a few copies in my main. On the other hand I suppose it really depends on your meta. Mine is always infested with a lot of blue based decks.
I'm currently getting more Fulminators and will probably run 3 in my side. But I can see why you would run Fulminator in place of Lili in a different meta.
I also don't play online - just every Thursday and the occasional Friday so I basically test 1 / week.
Why do you think the red splash would affect pack rats and mutavaults?
My idea is to just replace a portion of removal with Bolts and Terminates and add Slaughter games in the side. It doesn't matter how you call it as long as it works, right?
Won against UWR, BW Tokens, Twin and lost to Scapeshift.
Jotun Grunt has been amazing. Yesterday it helped me to get rid of Lingering Souls, Bolts, Remands, Electrolyzes, Negates, etc. I'm tempted to tick it up to 3 copies but probably not a good idea since we never want to draw multiples.
Has anyone tried a red splash? Just for Bolts, Terminates and Slaughter Games in the side (+maybe Lavaclaw Reaches). I feel it could add substatial power to the deck without significantly disrupting the manabase. I'll probably try it after a couple more tries with just the BW list.
Hi guys, a long time Deadguy fan here. I finally started getting Bobs in order to play this deck. In the meantime I couldn't resist trying it out with just 1 Bob.
I won against Jund, Elves and Living End and lost to Big Zoo.
MVP: Pack Rat! I was happy to see it in every situation but it really shined Living End. I discarded all other creatures to it in case he goes to cast living end. Amazing.
When I get the rest of Confidants, I'll probably remove the high CMC stuff because flipping a baneslayer hurts quite a lot.
Also, I had a bit of trouble playing discard on turn 1 and having both WW and BB on turns 3/4 without huring myself A LOT. This makes casting Brimaz / Mirran Crusader quite hard. I believe I'll move away from all WW creatures because I feel it's not worth it. What do you guys think? What are your experiences with WW creatures?
While I'm at it - anyone tried Kitchen Finks? In theory it sounds good but not sure how it works in a real situation. Although, the thought of gaining a bit of life sounds quite appealing.
Regarding Jotun Grunt - I'll probably test 2x next time I play. I'd say modern decks fill the graveyards quickly enough for this guy to shine. Even if it lives for 2 turns it can deal enough damage to justify the 2 mana investment. And it screws with goyf, snapcaster and all delve cards. And if you play Resto you can reset him which is a nice sinergy.
My current list:
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Mutavault
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Swamp
2 Plains
Creatures (16)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Pack Rat
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Restoration Angel
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Liliana of the Veil
Spells (17)
3 Lingering Souls
1 Darkblast
1 Dismember
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Zealous Persecution
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Wrath of God
2 Disenchant
1 Zealous Persecution
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Fulminator Mage
I played him before but I had trouble with double white since I'm also running Liliana. Now I'm considering trying again since I quite like how he builds pressure quickly.
Regarding Amulet - If they resolve Hive Mind and have a pact in hand, disenchant doesn't help you because they receive priority as Hive Mind resolves and can pact straight away. Chalice on 0 stops them from actually using pacts but if they have a Hive Mind out only the original spell gets countered and you still get the copy. That being said, the strategy against them is pretty much what you said + Fulminator Mages to slow them down.
If you try Red let us know how it went - I'm really interested to find out if it's worth it.
Other cards to consider:
Young Pyromancer
Abbot of Keral Keep
Crackling Doom
Butcher of the Horde
Slaughter Games
Personally, I would never play this deck without at least 2 copies of her because she won me so many games.
I'd also recommend running a few Mutavaults because it really helps increase the clock. Also, it's a rat!
And if you run Mutavaults it's good to have 1-2 Urborgs to have that B mana more consistently.
For the builds without Bob, consider Tombstalker. For one more B mana (compared to Angler) you get evasion which is important, IMO.
Percy = Abyssal Persecutor
And Bone Splinters as the means to sacrifice it.
Btw, what do you guys think of the newly spoiled Erebos' Titan? It's almost a vanilla 5/5 for 4 but I quite like the possibility of recursion - especially if you play Jotun Grunt.
For me - amazing. I'm almost always happy to see this guy.
Except for the classic turn 5 play, I've won many games by going T1 Thoughtseize/Inquisition taking their only removal into T2 Pack Rat and then unleashing the horde FTW.
I think it's not a dead draw in any matchup and I definitely run 4-of all the time.
I just changed the sideboard a little bit:
2 Wrath of God
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Disenchant
1 Batterskull
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Fulminator Mage
Won against BW Tokens and All In Twin and lost to Elves and Grixis Twin.
Jotun Grunt: still completely happy with this guy as a 2-of
Wrath of God: I would prefer Damnation but *** has a much nicer price tag. However, I never had problems casting it since WW is not really an issue on turn 4+.
Archangel of Tithe: It's quite powerful but I don't think it's for this deck. Triple W is really hard to get and the abilities are not that good for us. I think Resto is much better in this deck.
I realised I have the most trouble with fast aggro decks so I'll try swapping Blade Splicers with Kitchen Finkses. Hopefully that should improve those matchups.
Also, I'm intrigued with the idea of playing a sword or two. Have you guys tried any swords? Which ones? How did they perform?
Are you happy with Kitchen Finks? I'm thinking about replacing my Blade Splicers with Finks just to try it out but sometimes I have trouble with double white cost. Maybe because I also run Liliana.
Do you find it easy to Inquisition T1/T2 and play Finks on turn 3?
Also, do you run any Fetid Heaths? I currently have none but I guess it can help you with the double white / double black on turn 3. But on the other hand, it doesn't play well with Mutavaults / Tec Edges so I'm not completely convinced. Maybe just as a 1-of
On the other hand, I want to do something with Varolz, the Scar-Striped and Death's Shadow but that's something for another deck.
Lili has been amazing for me - if she sticks she basically ruins any deck running blue. And with the amount of discard we're running it's not that hard to clear the way for her. Yesterday, she's done some serious work against UWR, Twin and Scapeshift. Against BW Tokens she's practically useless but I can live with that. All in all I really like to have at least a few copies in my main. On the other hand I suppose it really depends on your meta. Mine is always infested with a lot of blue based decks.
I'm currently getting more Fulminators and will probably run 3 in my side. But I can see why you would run Fulminator in place of Lili in a different meta.
I also don't play online - just every Thursday and the occasional Friday so I basically test 1 / week.
My idea is to just replace a portion of removal with Bolts and Terminates and add Slaughter games in the side. It doesn't matter how you call it as long as it works, right?
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Mutavault
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Swamp
2 Plains
Creatures (16)
2 Blade Splicer
3 Dark Confidant
4 Pack Rat
2 Restoration Angel
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Liliana of the Veil
Spells (17)
1 Darkblast
1 Dismember
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Disenchant
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Batterskull
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Fulminator Mage
Won against UWR, BW Tokens, Twin and lost to Scapeshift.
Jotun Grunt has been amazing. Yesterday it helped me to get rid of Lingering Souls, Bolts, Remands, Electrolyzes, Negates, etc. I'm tempted to tick it up to 3 copies but probably not a good idea since we never want to draw multiples.
Has anyone tried a red splash? Just for Bolts, Terminates and Slaughter Games in the side (+maybe Lavaclaw Reaches). I feel it could add substatial power to the deck without significantly disrupting the manabase. I'll probably try it after a couple more tries with just the BW list.
Played this list yesterday and went 3:1
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Mutavault
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Swamp
2 Plains
Creatures (16)
1 Baneslayer Angel
3 Blade Splicer
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Dark Confidant
4 Pack Rat
2 Restoration Angel
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Liliana of the Veil
Spells (17)
1 Darkblast
1 Dismember
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Disenchant
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Batterskull
1 Bitterblossom
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Angel's Grace
2 Kataki, War's Wage
I won against Jund, Elves and Living End and lost to Big Zoo.
MVP: Pack Rat! I was happy to see it in every situation but it really shined Living End. I discarded all other creatures to it in case he goes to cast living end. Amazing.
When I get the rest of Confidants, I'll probably remove the high CMC stuff because flipping a baneslayer hurts quite a lot.
Also, I had a bit of trouble playing discard on turn 1 and having both WW and BB on turns 3/4 without huring myself A LOT. This makes casting Brimaz / Mirran Crusader quite hard. I believe I'll move away from all WW creatures because I feel it's not worth it. What do you guys think? What are your experiences with WW creatures?
While I'm at it - anyone tried Kitchen Finks? In theory it sounds good but not sure how it works in a real situation. Although, the thought of gaining a bit of life sounds quite appealing.
Regarding Jotun Grunt - I'll probably test 2x next time I play. I'd say modern decks fill the graveyards quickly enough for this guy to shine. Even if it lives for 2 turns it can deal enough damage to justify the 2 mana investment. And it screws with goyf, snapcaster and all delve cards. And if you play Resto you can reset him which is a nice sinergy.