I honestly hadn't considered dropping the card count to 40 (As Shmup operates), but having only average 16 lands, out of which an average of 6 are Terramorphic Expanses that thin out your lands (Which actually hinders you in such a low card count) seems like it would make it very difficult to cast those high cost cards. That's why I established that basic lands are rainbow lands to circumvent this, and to also allow you to get more creative when it comes to building the factions rather than staying for a single color.
I admit there is a land problem. Just having Command Towers like you did would probably be for the best. I think I'll just revise it to Command Towers when I get a chance to revisit these decks.
I had also put this idea on the back burner for a while. What factions do you think need adding still? Something like Slivers won't really work if you have to dilute them with another faction.
Also, what is your meta like? Is there anything else we should keep in mind while remodeling your janky combo into a doom cannon.
Cloudstone Curio is actually a really good idea. Every zombie means I can return a thopter or something to my hand. Too bad it's nonartifact though. Otherwise it would be a proper infinite combo.
Also our meta is very light on removal and ways to disrupt your opponent. That's why I thought this would work. A friend of mine keeps winning with his Near-Death Experience deck because even after everyone plays their turn nobody can destroy the enchantment or counter it to begin with. Definitely the meta for janky decks.
We have someone in our playgroup who runs a Jhoira deck. It can be really brutal if ignored. He runs things like Jhoira's Timebug, Fury Charm, and Clockspinning which let him play Emrakul, the Aeons Torn which actually gets cast after being suspended by Jhoira so you get the extra turn with a hasted Emrakul. So even in multiplayer, that can be enough to take two players out of the game. Especially if you consider that during that extra turn you can suspend another card and cheat more suspend counters off of it.
It can be a really fun deck, but from what I have seen the variance can be high. There might be some games where you just sit there hoping to draw Jhoira or a big threat, and other games where you dominate because you manage to sweep the board and then cast an Emrakul.
I know what you mean. Those are exactly my concerns, but the only way I can see this deck working is if I mill everyone on the spot as soon as Undead Alchemist comes down. By my calculation let's say that on average 35% of a player's deck will be creatures. And let's say that I have 3 Altar of the Broods out. This will mean that on average I will fail to find a land in one mill 2% of the time.
1-65%^3 = ~27.5% chance of not finding a land after everyone mills once (Assuming 3 other players). 1-27.5%^3 = ~2% chance of not finding a land after everyone mills 3 times (Assuming 3 altars).
It's a combo in the same way that Relentless Rats and Thrumming Stone is a combo. I mean it's supposed to be a janky deck as opposed to a quality deck make no mistake. Just not sure if my calculations are right. It's a pretty cheap deck too, so there's little downside in putting it together.
I like your idea of tutors and counter spells though. A few Pact of Negations would make sense to block instant speed removal.
The fetchlands would be a great addition actually. Could also give me a shuffle if Halimar Depths doesn't reveal anything worthwhile.
Also hadn't considered actually attacking with the Undead Alchemist and just relying on his second ability triggering off of the Altar of the Brood but would be worthwhile to have 4 unblockable mill.
What do you think of 4 Tormod's Crypt instead of the 4 Ornithopter? Considering them to deal with graveyard shenanigans.
So I have been toying with the idea of building a mill deck that works in multiplayer. Nothing seemed to work with more than one opponent until I found the interaction between Altar of the Brood and Undead Alchemist. The interaction is the only one I found that works better with multiplayer since more mill means more chances of hitting creatures for Undead Alchemist.
The deck tries to get out as many Altar of the Broods as possible using Trinket Mage and Reshape and then once Undead Alchemist comes down, Ornithopters and Memnites provide additional triggers just in case everyone reveals a noncreature card at the same time.
The ornithopters and memnites also help provide targets for Reshape and Perilous Research although the main target for those two spells is Ichor Wellspring which provides card draw alongside Perilous Research and Serum Visions.
Here is my take on the Smash Up variant. I built the decks to be played in multiplayer, so some cards have dethrone or are only decent in a multiplayer format. Also, you will notice a lot of Terramorphic Expanses. Brief playtesting showed that mana would be a bit of an issue especially when you don't know how far to lean into each of the two colors you will potentially be playing. The terramorphic expanses are meant to fix that issue.
Any feedback would be great, especially if you feel a certain race is underpowered or overpowered.
This does seem like an issue. A possible solution is different colored paper placed between the card and the sleeve. That way you just separate all "pink" backed cards with each other and all "orange" backed cards with each other, etc..
Hahahaha yup. There will still be Terramorphic Expanses from the other half of the deck but there's nothing you can do about that.
I admit there is a land problem. Just having Command Towers like you did would probably be for the best. I think I'll just revise it to Command Towers when I get a chance to revisit these decks.
I had also put this idea on the back burner for a while. What factions do you think need adding still? Something like Slivers won't really work if you have to dilute them with another faction.
This plan is so cute, but there are more interactions with Ichor Wellspring. I can sac it to Reshape on top of the Perilous Research.
Cloudstone Curio is actually a really good idea. Every zombie means I can return a thopter or something to my hand. Too bad it's nonartifact though. Otherwise it would be a proper infinite combo.
Also our meta is very light on removal and ways to disrupt your opponent. That's why I thought this would work. A friend of mine keeps winning with his Near-Death Experience deck because even after everyone plays their turn nobody can destroy the enchantment or counter it to begin with. Definitely the meta for janky decks.
It can be a really fun deck, but from what I have seen the variance can be high. There might be some games where you just sit there hoping to draw Jhoira or a big threat, and other games where you dominate because you manage to sweep the board and then cast an Emrakul.
1-65%^3 = ~27.5% chance of not finding a land after everyone mills once (Assuming 3 other players). 1-27.5%^3 = ~2% chance of not finding a land after everyone mills 3 times (Assuming 3 altars).
It's a combo in the same way that Relentless Rats and Thrumming Stone is a combo. I mean it's supposed to be a janky deck as opposed to a quality deck make no mistake. Just not sure if my calculations are right. It's a pretty cheap deck too, so there's little downside in putting it together.
I like your idea of tutors and counter spells though. A few Pact of Negations would make sense to block instant speed removal.
Also hadn't considered actually attacking with the Undead Alchemist and just relying on his second ability triggering off of the Altar of the Brood but would be worthwhile to have 4 unblockable mill.
What do you think of 4 Tormod's Crypt instead of the 4 Ornithopter? Considering them to deal with graveyard shenanigans.
The deck tries to get out as many Altar of the Broods as possible using Trinket Mage and Reshape and then once Undead Alchemist comes down, Ornithopters and Memnites provide additional triggers just in case everyone reveals a noncreature card at the same time.
The ornithopters and memnites also help provide targets for Reshape and Perilous Research although the main target for those two spells is Ichor Wellspring which provides card draw alongside Perilous Research and Serum Visions.
Any help or card suggestions would be great.
In general is the deck even viable?
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
3 Trinket Mage
4 Undead Alchemist
4 Perilous Research
4 Serum Visions
4 Reshape
Artifacts
4 Altar of the Brood
3 Profane Memento
4 Ichor Wellspring
18 Island
4 Halimar Depths
Any feedback would be great, especially if you feel a certain race is underpowered or overpowered.
3 Terramorphic Expanse
5 Plains
2 Luminarch Ascension
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Angel of the Dire Hour
1 Herald of the Host
1 Gideon, Champion of Justice
2 Angelic Renewal
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Angelic Destiny
2 Elite Vanguard
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Frontline Medic
1 Akroan Horse
1 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1 Vow of Duty
1 Deploy to the Front
2 Timely Reinforcements
5 Plains
1 Archetype of Courage
1 Gideon, Battle-Forged
3 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Jazal Goldmane
2 Oreskos Explorer
1 Oreskos Swiftclaw
2 Steppe Lynx
1 Whitemane Lion
8 Plains
1 White Sun's Zenith
2 Dakra Mystic
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Youthful Scholar
1 Daring Apprentice
5 Island
3 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Compulsive Research
1 Archetype of Imagination
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2 Rhystic Study
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Illusory Angel
1 Illusory Ambusher
2 Jace's Phantasm
1 Phantasmal Dragon
2 Phantasmal Image
1 Phantom Beast
1 Ætherling
1 Mirror Match
3 Terramorphic Expanse
5 Island
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Thopter Spy Network
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Memnarch
3 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Island
2 Bottle Gnomes
1 Mishra's Factory
2 Hangarback Walker
1 Chronomaton
1 Sorin Markov
1 Bloodline Keeper
1 Lord of Lineage
4 Blood Artist
1 Exquisite Blood
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
2 Bloodchief Ascension
5 Swamp
3 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Vow of Malice
1 Herald of Torment
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Demonic Pact
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Desecration Demon
1 Skirsdag High Priest
1 Mark of the Oni
3 Terramorphic Expanse
6 Swamp
1 Reaper from the Abyss
1 Reign of the Pit
1 Unholy Grotto
4 Swamp
3 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Butcher Ghoul
1 Gravedigger
1 Phyrexian Delver
1 Wight of Precinct Six
1 Living Death
1 Diregraf Ghoul
2 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Reanimate
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Liliana Vess
1 Furyborn Hellkite
1 Scourge of the Throne
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
5 Mountain
1 Roast
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Slumbering Dragon
2 Dragon Hatchling
3 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Awaken the Sky Tyrant
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Ignition Team
1 Goblin Game
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
2 Goblin Assault
3 Terramorphic Expanse
5 Mountain
1 Goblin Diplomats
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Akoum Firebird
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Firewing Phoenix
2 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
1 Flamewake Phoenix
1 Magma Phoenix
6 Mountain
1 Chandra Nalaar
3 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Realm Seekers
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Selvala's Enforcer
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Wood Elves
5 Forest
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
3 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen
1 Endless Swarm
1 Mire Boa
1 River Boa
1 Mold Adder
1 Skullwinder
1 Snake Pit
2 Sosuke's Summons
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Patron of the Orochi
3 Terramorphic Expanse
5 Forest
2 Brushstrider
1 Vow of Wildness
1 Terra Stomper
1 Thragtusk
1 Ezuri's Predation
6 Forest
1 Nessian Demolok
1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
3 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Pulse of the Tangle