You make a lot of great points and I agree with just about all of it (and was thinking much of it when I started writing this). It's about the strategy and the colors more than the general itself.
Making and maintaining a list like this is tedious and I can't expect everyone or anyone to agree with it. Some time I'll change the list to reflect strategies instead, but it will be more work than it's worth and, truth be told, I made it mostly for my own reference.
Thanks for your suggestions!
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- DigitalFire
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Let's use a different comparison. Gifts Ungiven seems like a fun card for most, but perhaps too powerful for competitive players. Is this comparison more apt? Broken if you include it for combo but otherwise an interesting tradeoff?
I couldn't find anything that works in place of altar to get infinite mana... You could instead include some sac outlet + a death trigger for the kill, but at that point I agree with darrenhabib that you should just go Aurelia / Brago instead of a 4 card combo.
The RC seems very clear about banning cards that seem innocuous but accidentally create a bad time. If you see someone else playing Food Chain in Prossh, you're going to want to give it a try, and then suddenly it seems bad to not run Food Chain. Is this no different from discovering Recurring Nightmare (also banned) combos with Palinchron? The outside use cases seem fringe.
However, Commander is not cEDH! So here's my question: Is your average Joe using Food Chain in a fair way? Or is it still being slotted into Prossh precons and causing unenjoyable experiences for an otherwise casual table? I'd love to hear some other personal experiences about this card.
Oh man oh man, have you not seen Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God? If that was legal as a Commander I would have sleeved that up the minute it got spoiled haha. And I'm not even a fan of Bolas! (Niv-Mizzet for life)
I think the card would be acceptable to unban (especially for established playgroups), but it would feel pretty bad to lose that way (especially for pickup games, online, etc.). And what does it really add?
I probably would not have banned it in the first place, but to take it off the banlist is not worth in my opinion.
As Carthage points out just above me, you could have just gotten Mikaeus + Triskelion that actually does win the game. I haven't seen a single good reason why this is banned that isn't just worse than an already legal avenue. Neither Painter's Servant nor Grindstone are even banned in Duel Commander or MTGO Commander which are tuned for balance from tournament results, card prevalence, and other online data.
Also, I'm riding that Aminatou train like you suggested. We can assemble the entire combo with Captain Sisay! The chain is: Sisay -> Kiora -> Aminatou -> Bolas -> Oath of Teferi. You can do it in one turn but it costs 5WWUUUBBBBR(G/U) LOL. I feel like I need more finishers than just that (and beating with Niv-Mizzet).
I've been toying with the idea of allowing cards with a multicolor identity, like Noble Hierarch. But besides three other dorks, I couldn't really come up with anything useful enough that it's worth the loss in flavor and Niv synergy.
As it happens, I made a "monogold" deck 4 years ago. It was pretty battle cruiser, and I didn't even bother casting my Commander because none of the 5-color legends really fit the deck. With the release of Niv, I've been brainstorming monogold again! We have pretty similar card selection (great minds think alike!) but I thought I'd mention a few differences, somewhat for my own benefit, but hopefully to spark some more brainstorming from the community! (for your main list, not Astral Slide)
My noticeable includes
Edric, Spymaster of Trest, I'm not sure how I like him so far. We're not attacking early that much, so it may benefit my opponents more than myself. Maybe I'll trade it for Tymna the Weaver to balance my Orzhov and keep one-sided advantage
Selvala, Explorer Returned gets us t4 Niv, and (rarely) a Sol Ring or something on the same turn. Again, maybe this helps opponents too much?
Captain Sisay can tutor for planeswalkers and more!
GAAIV removes 1 Commander tax and we both run lots of Azorius spells. Usually just eats a removal spell because he's annoying, but that's one less removal for our other stuff!
Notion Thief, Havengul Lich: value
Reborn Hope, Treasured Find: recursion
Jhessian Zombies, Sanctum Plowbeast: land tutor at instant speed so we can keep counterspell mana up
your Cadaverous Bloom -> my Squandered Resources, Bloom gives us the opportunity to chain (B/G) spells after Niv, while the latter gets us Niv faster
your Mana Crypt -> my Fellwar Stone, Simic Signet, Chromatic Lantern. Crypt underperformed a bit with the high color cost. 4 colorless cards (including Sol Ring) is a lot, but I think the color fixing is worth.
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Trace of Abundance: 3 colored cards that don't work with Niv, but good ramp. I'm keeping my no monocolor deck restriction so I can't replace these with Birds of Paradise for example.
your Nahiri, the Harbinger, Saheeli Rai -> my Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God: the Kioras give us some ramp and then die. They're basically sorceries so I feel comfortable running both. Nicol Bolas is 3-color but he's a fun win-con. I like running this high planeswalker count because of synergy with Sisay, Oath of Teferi, and maybe Primevals' Glorious Rebirth which I'm probably going to add!
Your noticeable includes
your Baleful Strix -> my Coiling Oracle, higher Simic count but has the potential to ramp
your Rakdos Charm, Kolaghan's Command, Golgari Charm, Boros Charm -> my Assassin's Trophy. Too often the charms underwhelm me :c Maybe difference in meta.
Decimate frustrates me lol. Too often no one has an enchantment so you can't even cast this card, or you have to destroy your own enchantment
your Counterflux, Kaya's Wrath -> my Psychic Strike, Supreme Verdict: less color intensive
Mistmeadow Witch, how do you like this one? The ability seems expensive so you can't use it when you cast Niv and then have to use your whole next turn to recur him when you could be casting whatever Niv drew you. I'm curious though, I could be wrong!
Brago, King Eternal, drop this the turn before Niv, then attack right after he drops. Seems sweet, how do you like him?
Vanish into Memory, Saffi Eriksdotter, Protean Raider, Evil Twin, Altered Ego, Progenitor Mimic: you run lots of flicker, some of it is expensive. My thought is that cards should ramp us so we can cast Niv for card advantage, then try to keep Walkers alive until they can ultimate. So too many flicker cards means less ramp that we could be drawing into and a less consistent t4 Niv. What's your main win-con?
Please don't feel the need to address everything I've written! Mainly just curious about the deck's main objective, and explaining my card choices helps me brainstorm
I don't have the opportunity to play Magic nearly as much as I used to or would like to so I've been having trouble with this deck a bit, mainly with how to close out the game.
Plan A: Attrition. Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God or Gisela, Blade of Goldnight while protecting them or using stax pieces like Grand Arbiter?
Plan B: Sen Triplet, Havengul Lich, and Villainous Wealth to play my opponents things. Maybe add more theft with Merieke Ri Berit? Dragonlord Silumgar? Slotting Olivia Voldaren back in?
Are there any combos with these deck restrictions? Have I missed some obvious includes? Advice appreciated!
EDIT: Also, I think I'm going to allow hybrid cards for 2 reasons: First, they work as expected with Niv-Mizzet. Second, addressing my distaste for not seeing silver or gold borders while flipping through the deck... I already make custom versions for all old-bordered cards since I like having all modern frame anyway, so I might as well make custom gold bordered versions of hybrid cards too.
Now if I show up to an LGS with a powerful EDH deck, it's possible people may complain but I can point to the banlist and say "what I'm doing is in the rules". Yes, there are certainly cases where people would accommodate, I don't mind borrowing decks, but it would just be nice to know I could play a legal deck wherever I went. Basically, 60-card tabletop was regulated only by accommodating for power level, whereas EDH says it should be regulated by power level but also has a banlist that allows the highest power level of any format, perhaps more than vintage. It's easier to follow a list than a subjective spirit of fun.
My point is: we can't just pretend EDH exists in a vacuum. To say "if you don't like the spirit of EDH go play something else" doesn't work because the only other option now is tournament Magic. There are still a lot of people who want to play serious games in a casual multiplayer format and the ONLY option now is EDH.
It's really consistent because you just ramp, play Thrasios and draw/ramp more. Within just a few turns you have a plethora of mana and access to your win-con (for me it's Displacer / Drake). Then use one of the counterspells, Venser, to bounce all permanents and the other counterspell to protect the combo. Win with slow mana elf beats.
I actually really dislike that this deck exists. It's very linear, consistent, and robust. I feel like it "solved" the format and it makes me sad because it's boring to play but I feel compelled to since it's so good.
The focus of this update is to ease the curve. Reduce unnecessary high-costs and empower early turns
Cuts:
Liliana's Specter - Efficient disruption, especially if recurred, but still probably the worst in the deck.
Brago, King Eternal - He's slow and thus very susceptible to removal.
Ulvenwald Hydra - I wanted a creature that could fetch lands, but the high cost and ETB tapped makes it not worth. Primeval Titan he is not.
Angel of Serenity - Redundant creature removal and recursion for high cost, even though I hate to see this go.
Craterhoof Behemoth - Good finisher, but I have plenty other finishers and this one is high cost and has no other utility.
Paradoxical Outcome - I actually really like this card, it's a fantastic response to wrath that saves our creatures, draws us cards, and lets us reuse their ETB abilities. Unfortunately it's redundant with Temur Sabertooth and Eerie Interlude.
Cloudstone Curio - Definitely the hardest cut, but it's a non-creature which doesn't do anything if we don't have the mana to cast creatures right then.
Replacements:
Skullclamp - We have so many 1 toughness creatures, this card is amazing
5 mana dorks - Faster starts, pitch to Skullclamp / Survival of the Fittest, power up Gaea's Cradle, pair with Tymna / Derevi / Edric, etc.
Foul Emissary - Digs 4 cards, has 1 toughness
Considering:
Equipments - With Skullclamp already in the deck, Stoneforge Mystic could be a powerful addition with just 2 more equipments. Possibly Swiftfoot Boots, Nim Deathmantle, and/or Blade of Selves
Green Sun's Zenith - Gets a lot of things, not sure if I would also run Dryad Arbor.
Ranger of Eos - We have 1cmc creatures now
Selvala's Stampede - Neat
The arms race thing is definitely true. And also there's certainly nothing wrong with wanting to play casual mtg in the same way that there's nothing wrong with playing chess using only pawns. But if someone shows up wanting to play chess, you can't be mad at them for moving the queen if you didn't say "pawns only" before the game.