tom ross it's one of the most acomplished infect players, and also is known for playing 8rack from time to time with moderate succes
i think its safe to asume that he knows how to aproach that pairing, maybe we can learn something trying to understand his decisions
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funkalunk posted a message on Dualcaster Mage and Giant TortoisePosted in: The Rumor MillQuote from Greenlexluthor »Quote from funkalunk »Quote from Greenlexluthor »Quote from funkalunk »Quote from Lord Void »
Yeah, because rarity totally dictates viability within a given format. I'll be sure to write that down.
They can print any other card in this slot that has seen play in, let's see....the past TWO DECADES?
This is obviously filler for draft decks. Maybe they're seeding a slower archetype that wants early blockers. This isn't in here for it's viability in any format other than EMA draft.
Which is exactly the problem with these sets, screw draft, this is a limited print run product that is supposed to help inject some life into eternal cardpools, it's shouldn't have to worry about draft as a format.
Wow, I absolutely disagree. I, and many others I'm sure, would not buy boosters of this at all if it weren't for draft. Buying boosters is such a horrible lottery that you need actual value (The draft experience) to make it worth it. I'm thankful that WotC puts suboptimal cards in to account for good drafting instead of bending to pressure and slotting in a bunch of limited unplayable money cards.
MMA 1 and 2 were both amazingly fun to draft, and I hope this will be as well.
There are plenty of sets to draft already in circulation, why should the premium sets suffer in card quality for a format that is already supported by every new set they print?
If this was called draft masters I'd understand, but with a card pool as big as Eternal is I don't expect chaff like this to make it into a pack while wizards hide behind the excuse of "it's for drafts!" and you silly gooses eat it up.
Exactly that, it's a premium set. This allows for more complex draft cards and interactions. We get to draft with mechanics that are "too complicated" to return to standard, or cards that are too powerful to be reprinted. It's not like the set is devoid of value, just that some concessions are made so that drafters are included too.
And guess what, drafters make up a large proportion of sales. And people doing sealed, too. Remember how large the MMA GPs were? The several of them that were held around the world? Can't hold these events (And similar events at LGS) without making the set play well in limited. -
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izzetmage posted a message on Grand Prix Weekend Megathread - GP Charlotte/GP Los Angeles 2016Clarke's third law of combo decks:Posted in: Modern
Any sufficiently advanced combo deck is indistinguishable from magic. -
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ktkenshinx posted a message on [Primer] Ad NauseamI identified this deck as my preference for the post-April 4 world before the announcement, and was just waiting to see if SSG dodged the bullet. It did, so I'm officially signed on.Posted in: Combo
One worry I have is the splash hate from anti-Thopter/Foundry cards, as well as anti-Affinity hate, we're likely to see after this Friday. I expect Abrupt Decay and Kolaghan's Command to increase their maindeck share, with tons of Ancient Grudge, Stony Silence, Wear // Tear, and others joining from sideboards. Based on this, I'm nervous about splash damage on Lotus Bloom and Pentad Prism. Is the plan here to preempt those sideboard decisions by boarding out some artifacts and relying on Dreadships and other cards? Hope to dodge them? Try and draw/tutor outs to them, whether discard, removal, or countermagic? -
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There is no lack of qualified people who could run the thread, I mean 8Rack isn't exactly rocket science. I would be more concerned if there are any candidates at all, given what previous "leadership" has lead to, the prime examples being the original creator ragequitting and the other one being so stubborn to accept changes that it forced half (if not more) the people out. Those are only the outlier cases, not mentioning having a list that hasn't been updated for a year (as if nothing has been going on in the game since Return to Ravnica block), despite the whopping 0 tournament results with the list suggested in the primer as "the best one", a;though people have been making competitive showings with anything but that list.Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
And now, of course, the previous moderator will pick a successor of his choice (or judging by his last post, most likely the first person willing to "claim" it... but let's not put words in his mouth), instead of the entire thread voting on somebody they think is the most qualified. This has always been the case, despite the meaning of the word "forum". In any event, best of luck to destroyer. -
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FoodChainGoblins posted a message on Beating home brewsProbably any Tier 1 Standard deck... I know for sure that either Abzan deck should dream crush them casuals.Posted in: Magic General -
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smashpacman posted a message on 8RackPosted in: Modern Archives - Deck CreationQuote from MemoryLapse »Quote from smashpacman »Hello all, I'm Pete. I had a chat with Destroyer after putting up the Top 16 this weekend and he asked me to drop by. I'm a big fan of forums and healthy conversation about Magic, particularly this archetype in Modern.
First thing's first, he already posted the link to the article I wrote about the event. It covers lots of things, such as changes that I would want to make, and how the deck fared against each matchup. Obviously, I would appreciate any likes/shares on the article to help get 8-Rack out there in the mainstream.
I've seen a bit of hate go towards some of the deck choices, and some confusion as to why I picked some of the things that I picked, so I want to address some of the concerns now just to get all of it out of the way. I'll go card by card just to explain where I was at with the deck.
Nyxathid - He's a giant guy and the deck's design is to take the cards out of your opponent's hand, so generally you want to target removal. It's especially good if you win Game 1 with The Rack, and he sideboards the removal out. Makes Nyx's job much easier.
No Pack Rat? - Pack Rat is a very good card. From testing, I have two small-but-valid complaints about it. First, often times the deck plays like a hard control deck, so it doesn't always have the mana to protect the Rat from things like Lightning Bolt, Electrolyze, etc. (cards that remove Rat and not Nyx) and still maintain the mana for a removal spell if it's needed. Twin, for example, can kill Rat, make me tap out to save it, and combo off. Scapeshift, same problem. If I play it later in the game, it is still very good. The other issue I have with it is that it takes a few turns to generate the Rats and kill the opponent, where Nyxathid can just crash in two or three times and end the game straight out before the opponent can top deck a way out. Rats on average take 3-4 turns to have that effect. Don't get me wrong, Pack Rat is a very good and viable card, and there are plenty of arguments against Nyxathid as well, as have been pointed out. For the way the format was looking at the 5k, I opted to play Nyx.
Obvious Cards - Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, The Rack, Wrench Mind, Terminate, Blightning, Liliana of the Veil, Lightning Bolt, and the majority of the lands need no introduction. Any black Fetch land is usable, since all sources targetable by a Fetch Land will get a Black source, and to be honest, I don't want to give an opponent free information by playing Bloodstained Mire.
Liliana's Caress - It won me one game, and it is an alternate win-con in case your opponent decides to just not play his cards when all you have is The Rack on the field, but it was my least-liked card all day in the main deck and it's definitely not sideboard-worthy, so if I play the deck again, this will probably be a different card.
Murderous Cut - This card was an absolute monster all day long. I almost put Go For The Throats into the deck pre-Khans because I felt the deck really needed another spot removal card that was not damage-based besides Terminate, but this is 100x better than anything else. There was not a situation where I couldn't Delve, as that's how the deck operates. Highlight of the day was removing Eidolon of the Great Revel against the burn player with it for one mana. It's nice to not eat another two damage.
Godless Shrine - Wear/Tear is nice, and Leyline of Sanctity instills the fear of God into any Rack pilot. There are other enchantments that you don't really wanna see as well, such as Blood Moon (can't cast Liliana sometimes) and Daybreak Coronet, so you never know.
No Shrieking Affliction??? - No Shrieking Affliction, in this build it is far too easy for the opponent to keep two cards in his hand, and The Rack is a better card. I wouldn't mind one in place of Liliana's Caress though, that might be okay, but the irony to the name 8-Rack for me is that eight Rack effects is a few too many for consistency's sake. I hate drawing 3 effects and then not enough discard/removal, so that the opponent either kills me first or just holds cards. The magic number for me has been five. Six is probably alright too, but drawing too many effects happened frequently.
Lavaclaw Reaches - Reaches is a fully grown up Man Land, and when you're removing both their hand and their board, sometimes it's all you need to close a game out quickly. Especially late game.
That's enough for now with individual cards. I want to make Sideboard changes, because playing against Dredgevine is the deck's worst imaginable matchup and I'm finally caving in and adding Relic of Progenitus to the board. Dismember was good awhile back, but with Murderous Cut it's just unnecessary now. If a second Relic were necessary, then either a third Duress or the second Surgical Extraction would be the other cut. Pyroclasm is necessary for the Affinity matchup (and great against Burn), and Ensnaring Bridge is great when it's great and bad when it's bad, so it can fundamentally change your gameplan right under your opponent's nose.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask either here or on Twitter (@smash_pacman). Cheers!
I appreciate you taking the time to post here, and I send congrats on your win. That said, I have to deliver the hard truth now as I see it.
Ok lets start with Nyxathid. You say that in order to defend him you generally want to target removal in their hand. I want to point out that using the stock list, removal cards will be dead in their hands. By not committing to a card like Nyxathid (or any other huge vanilla fatty like Tombstalker) we are making their hands of Path to Exile / Murderous Cut / Lightning Bolt(to a degree) a whole lot worse just by making smart deck building choices. Furthermore, if you are going to put all your eggs in one basket creature-wise, Rat still blows Nyx away.
Moving on to your remarks on Shrieking Affliction - My God man. You basically are uncovering everything that is wrong with your deck and then saying you are going to leave it wrong. You are right in that without consistent engines like Raven's Crime/dakmor or Lili there is no way for you to reliably keep their hand empty. So why don't you fix that problem instead of ignoring it? Let me ask you, if you cant keep their hands empty, why bother running Rack at all?? Hell make it an RB MBC deck, but even if I was to look at your deck like an MBC, you are still grossly inefficient at executing your game plan.
I could go on about this, but what I really want to emphasize is that while am really glad that people are starting to explore the hand control genre, I implore you to look at the development that has taken place over the last 2 years and use that as a starting point. Even if you don't understand some of the reasons, the people here that aren't trolls are pretty committed to making the most efficient lists in the genre you will find.
So for Nyxathid, you don't need to target the removal in their hand 100% of the time. Since the deck can realistically win in four different ways (Nyxathid, Lavaclaw Reaches, The Rack, Liliana's Caress), you only need to force your opponent to discard removal when Nyxathid is the battle plan. All other times, you can get rid of their other cards as you see fit. In every situation, it will be the pilot's call.
For example, when I played against the Death and Taxes player in round six, I was able to take away his creatures of importance, as he had not yet seen Nyxathid. I had a Wrench Mind in hand, but was in no rush to play it. So when I got rid of his Leonin Arbiter (the rest of his hand was Spellskite, Path to Exile, Flickerwisp, Land, Land), he cast Spellskite. So on turn three, when I played Wrench Mind, he threw away the Path to Exile. If you sequence properly, you don't need to target your opponent's removal, because they will do it for you. If they decide to hang on to it, there are still plenty of discard engines left in your deck, and they are likely throwing away another card of value.
One person said the deck is more akin to Tempo. That is fair to say, and I would agree to that. There were a few games yesterday where Lightning Bolt would get me there because The Rack and Blightning would whittle them down enough to just kill them with a Reaches swing + Lightning Bolt. Getting an opponent to five life in Modern is an easy task. Getting them to three is an easy task. Getting them to zero is a lot harder when there is no direct damage spell in the deck.
As for Raven's Crime, I do like the card and putting 1 or 2 in the deck is something I have tested many times in the past. There are times when I really like the card, and there are times when I just don't feel like it's as good as a card like Wrench Mind. The obvious retort to that claim is "Well then, cut a few Blightnings," and it has been mentioned a few times in this thread that the card has been "tested and disregarded." That one, I cannot explain. The three damage is incredibly powerful, especially after the sequence of Wrench Mind --> Blightning.
As for Pack Rat, I understand that it can protect itself, but then I am not casting the spells in my hand, I am simply leaving up mana to protect my Rat. When the majority of my games I am only getting 3 or 4 mana, I cannot afford to be doing that. Rat will not always win you the game, as Modern will have your opponent send other VERY powerful cards your way. Look at it from a matchup perspective. Against Affinity, they will race and beat Rat every time. Against Twin, I'm leaving up mana instead of disrupting their hand, so they will combo off. Against Tron, they are slamming Karn (and now Ugin) and still winning that race (especially with Ugin just going -2). Against American Control, they are running Verdict. Against Infect, they are going unblockable through the Rat. Against Burn, you are letting them have spells and they are winning the race. The only matchups I can think of where I even maybe would have wanted Rat over Nyxathid were against Zoo and Scapeshift, but even then, it's barely better because Zoo is emptying its hand anyway and Scapeshift is just bad enough now to where you can kinda do whatever you want.
Pack Rat, in my version of the deck, is a mana sink. I have to spend two turns casting and protecting it, maybe more. That is two cards that my opponent will be drawing to possibly win the game. Nyxathid, on the other hand, I can play into their empty/one-card/two-card hand if I know what they're holding, and it's just a one-turn mana sink. Here's an example: a game goes either Thoughtseize/IoK into Wrench Mind or another IoK, and the opponent actually plays Magic by casting two spells and playing two lands. Slamming Nyxathid and then playing Blightning is usually going to equate to TEN (!!) damage on turn four. If they fetched, shocked, or anything else to cost themselves life previously, the odds are that they're pretty much about to die to another swing, not to mention possibly in Lightning Bolt range.
I can appreciate the fact that you don't agree with my list. It's more tempo than lock-control, it just has the ability to lock-control with Liliana of the Veil, because she is absurdly powerful. I've looked at the list Monoblack (similar to Destroyer's list), Black-Green, Black-Blue, Black-White, Jund, and Junk, and the Black-Red deck has tested the most positively against some pretty top-tier players, including this past weekend. I live in the Chicagoland area, which is the most dense area for card stores in the USA (there are eight within 30 minutes of my house, maybe more, all that run Comp REL events), and my deck is mostly my work but I've had a lot of insight and discussion. If you think that the deck should play more hard-lock, then that's fine, but then you're simply looking at my deck to play like something that it's not. What it IS, though, is a very powerful hand-control tempo-oriented metagame call.
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Valanarch posted a message on Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and LandsPosted in: The Rumor MillQuote from Xenannigans »I have to agree here, wizards wasn't completely sure how ugin would be recieved, so they managed to "leak" him, and get info on how to nake hom better. Hiw else could someone have gotten that much info so far in adnvance?
The one ability that they got right was Ghostfire, which was previously linked to Ugin. That's how. Wizards didn't leak it. They had already finished developing it and printed it by the time that one was spoiled. -
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GreenMunchkin posted a message on Adamant Negation [Japan's Blue Magic shop preview]MaRo, I have a confession:Posted in: The Rumor Mill
When I read the text, I assumed it had gotten rare-washed.
I'm sorry I had little faith.
Forgive me, o great pizza overlord. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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