I've only played them a few times but so far won everytime iirc. I tend to only counter Vengeance/Breach. One of the games I had a chalice on 2 and it was insane. Mindslavering them and then going off is fun
I think game 1 is the hardest because I've seen my opponents board into blood moon and other "hate". Turn 2 Spirit guide to play blood moon when you could be trying to win that turn. Nombo with the Bojesu they also board in...
I played 5 matches against it a few weeks ago and went 10-0. Just dont tap out for anything, if the game goes late we are in a much better spot than they are. P Angel is unremovable, except by Borbo/firing lands at her. Chalice is a rockstar; put it on 2 forces them to go super late and trying to splice for the win. I found it really easy and my opponent said it felt like unless he went off on turn 2 on the play he was never going to have a really good chance.
thx for the reply gives me some hope :-D
I think I should prio two blue sources and agressiv mull to good counteres like spellsnare. Gonna jam some rounds today against a friend since it is MONDAY MODERN MAGIC, starting in 3 hours. This might give me more insight into the matchup. I just find it hard if they go turn 3 eot shoal splice vengance on griselbrand and you only have one blue source, because then they go untap kill you.
It is just something you have to accept against combo decks; if they have extremely good hands, there is only so much you can do. Decks like Goryo's/Amulet Bloom/Infect are competitive because some # of games every tournament, you are going to have nut hands that just win. But the odds of that happening twice against you are remote; just focus on playing as tight as possible and winning the games they stumble.
I played 5 matches against it a few weeks ago and went 10-0. Just dont tap out for anything, if the game goes late we are in a much better spot than they are. P Angel is unremovable, except by Borbo/firing lands at her. Chalice is a rockstar; put it on 2 forces them to go super late and trying to splice for the win. I found it really easy and my opponent said it felt like unless he went off on turn 2 on the play he was never going to have a really good chance.
At the end of the day we both play Grixis Control, are you telling me you wouldn't gnaw your own arm off to play Counterspell in that deck?
Of course I would play it.
That doesn't change that I think that Counterspell has no place in Modern design though. It's a relic from a past era of magic and belongs there.
Just like we don't get Dark Ritual anymore or Sinkhole or Wasteland or Smokestack or Stasis or Demonic Tutor or *hundreds of other cards that have no place in Modern times anymore*
But the problem w that is a lot of other colours have their "counterspell" like card: Lightning Bolt, Abrupt Decay, Thoughtseize, Goyf etc while control decks have to play with subpar answers. I would agree with you that Counterspell would be too strong if the card pool for Modern was more at a Standard+ power level but right now Modern seems to be at a Legacy-lite powerlevel for particular colours and not for other colours.
I dont think Control players are asking to be a huge % of the meta (hell, control will never be a huge % as a lot of ppl dont like to play it so even when it was at its peak it was still only ~10%).
Control players arent asking for it to be tier S, hell I'd be happy if it was a solid tier 1.5 deck.
But if you think that control has the tools currently in Modern to be competitive, you are just wrong. Look at the huge power creep that creatures have undertaken in the last few sets: 5/5 for 2 or 3 CMC, 4/5 for 2 CMC, 4/5+ for 2 CMC etc. While non-creature spells have been taking a huge hit.
The problem that traditional control (draw-go whatever u wanna call it) is that there is no benefit to going late. Chapin quote basically points it out: why run a control deck in Modern (or any format) when you are putting yourself at a huge disadvantage before you have even sleeved up the deck. You are trading cards like Goyf, Tasigur, Lilly, or CoCo for what?
I would love to see Counterspell reprinted or JtMS unbanned to help control; but I just do not see how control can compete against a hostile environment (both in the format and from outside by the hate it gets from both the community and WotC themselves.)
Match 1 - 2-1 UG Infect
Game 1 - turn 3 Platinum Angel = win
Game 2 - he wins on turn 3 through Spellskite/Dismember
Game 3 - Chalice on 1, 3 Dismembers and a Cyclonic Rift, I am amble to squeeze out a win on the back of P Angel
Sideboard: In 1 Ratchet Bomb,1 Pithing Needle, 3 Dismember, 1 Aetherspout Out Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil, 4 Remand
Match 2 - 2-0 Grixis Control
Game 1 - a few counterspell wars and a chalice on 1 drain his resources and I am able to win on Sundering Titan/Ugin
Game 2 - double Mindslaver lets me do some gross things to his boardstate/hand and he scoops
Sideboard: In 3 Dismember, 1 Wurmcoil Out - Angel, 2 Repeal, 1 ? (cant remember)
Match 3 - 2-1 BUG Infect (yes, again I get paired against BOTH infect players in the room)
Game 1 - I keep a slower hand and he is able to win through a repeal/rift before I can find a wincon
Game 2 - He keeps a hand with 2 Inkmoths and I cant find a Pithing Needle. I am lucky to rip a Mindslaver into Treasure Mage (after keeping a island-less hand with natural Tron) and I am able to Mindslaver him into Platinum Angel (blowing all his pump/dismember).
Game 3 - Is extremely close even though I land a Chalice on 1 and 3 but Mindslaver saves the day again
Sideboard: In 1 Ratchet Bomb,1 Pithing Needle, 3 Dismember, 1 Aetherspout Out Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil, 4 Remand
Match 4 - 2-0 Rug Scapeshift w new Jace
Game 1 - Sundering Titan makes Scapeshift cry
Game 2 - I get to live the dream of Mindslavering him with Scapeshift in hand (I get to bolt him and then sac all his lands) he scoops.
Sideboard: In 3 Negate, 1 Squelch (this was wrong but we have quite a few dead cards) Out 3 Repeal, 1 O Stone
Really loving the deck. Feels really good right now.
Still unsure of the sideboard and what should come in and out against specific match ups, so any help would be great.
Game 1 was against Infect 1-2. Lost game 1 on turn 3, oh well. Game 2, was able to land Chalice on 1 and then a Spellskite and win with Snap beats. Game 3, lost through a Dismember and a Chalice on 1 with a Spellskite in hand on turn 3 (their turn 4). Sideboard was +1 Aetherspout, +3 Dismember +2 Negate +1 Pithing Needle - 2 Talisman -3 Remand -1 O Stone -1 Sundering Titan
Game 2 was against Esper control 1-2. Game 1 Won on the back of a Chalice on 2 and a Wurmcoil Engine. Game 2misplayed hard; cast Chalice on 2 and then drew into 4 or 5 Negates/Remands. Game 3 kept a mull to 5 of Island, 2x Negate, 2x Map. Spent the next 6 turns with only the island for a land. By then it was too late but I made a go of it. Was able to get him to 4 but misplayed, countering a Rev for 4 instead of holding the Negate for the WSZ I knew he had in hand. I had to ghost quarter my own Mine to get a second Island so i could play more than 1 spell a turn. Right after fetching the Island from the GQ, I drew 4 islands in a row and end up losing to the WSZ I should have saved a counter for. Sideboard was +1 Mindslaver +1 Pithing Needle (for Colonnade) +4 Negate -2 Spellskite -2 Repeal -2 Remand
Game 3 was against Infect (only 2 ppl in the room playing it, I get both) 2-1. Game 1 he runs me over before turn 4. Game 2, Spellskite + Chalice on 1 + Dismember = sad Infect player. Game 3 we both mull to 6, he first turn plays Inkmoth, I first turn play Pithing Needle and he gets sadder. I am able to follow up with Chalice on 1 into Platinum Angel and thats game.
Game 4 was against Griselshoal 5-0 (we played a few games after as he had never played the match up and I wanted experience with the deck). Chalice on 2 and our counters makes the games feel almost unlosable. In one game I was actually able to land a chalice on 2 and 5. Sideboard -2 Spellskite, -1 Sundering Titan -1 O Stone -2 Remand +3 Negate, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Grafdiggers Cage, +1 Mindslaver
Overall, I feel like I was in every game (except Game 1 vs Infect). I think I may cut a GQ for an Island, but manlands scare me so much, since Repeal/Rift can not hit them. I may cut the 2 Talisman for 1 Island and something (maybe another Mindslaver or Anticipate).
Any suggestions for sideboard (either the actual sideboard or the sideboarding I did would be great).
It would have been particularly useful to go Pact, find SSG, exile it to cast Titan. That's why I'm wondering how bad a 1-of is.
Summoner's Pact only finds Green creatures, so you can't Pact for an SSG to ramp up by 1.
That makes more sense, I'm pretty bad with the deck I guess.
So, another question. If a hand is capable of making a turn N titan, what turn does N have to be that the hand is no longer keepable? If I'm playing a matchup where they can reasonable interact (say Jund casting Thoughtseize, or Twin countering one of my important cards), do I now have to mulligan the hand?
The way I preferred to think of the deck when I played it, was to think of it like a Midrange deck that has the chance to just win on turn 2. A turn 3 or 4 Titan is just too good sometimes that you dont care if you are winning on turn 2.
Would love to see the list you are using. I want to play the deck, I love the idea of it (the Mentor version) but everytime I play the deck, I feel like I am already behind, especially when I sit down against Grixis Delver or UR Twin.
I think I am a fairly competent players (Im no PT player but I usually end events with positive records) but I just do not feel like the Esper colours make up for missing out on R.
Sorry if I misunderstood, but I'm pretty sure that many people who have never played against the deck think that it is a flash in the pan. It certainly is not. I do in fact know that the deck is beatable. But at least the options (other than deck choice) that I have tested, it shows that they will hurt you in other matchups in the meta - the other 98% of decks that you face.
I play Junk typically (currently anyway), and I have to mulligan every hand that doesn't have Thoughtseize/IoK or an Ooze, and this is when I play my friend and I know what he is on.
If I go to a tournament and G1 I keep a hand with double Goyf, a Pulse, and a Decay (a very keepable hand against many decks, especially an unknown Game 1) I almost auto lose to this deck.
Well a) this is the reason matches are best of 3, so that decks like this dont just auto win every match up by being completely unpredictable and fighting on my very good axis. b) so what? There are a ton of extremely lop-sided match ups throughout every format (Burn vs Soul Sisters is a great example). We cant ban every deck that gives another deck a super unfavourable match up or there would be only BGx and Twin decks in the format (even Grixis control has a super unfavourable burn match up).
Its why sideboards exist.
Uh right I understand how Magic works and what Sideboards are. I swear in this thread people are looking for arguments where there are none.
I do not think anything in this deck should be banned.
I think it is a good deck.
I think it is hard to learn and tricky to play against for the first few times.
I was agreeing with FoodChainGoblins that it is a very good deck and not a 'flash in the pan'.
My apologizes then, the way i read it, you made it sound like it was somehow a negative that particular hands were good and others bad against particular decks. So sorry
Sorry if I misunderstood, but I'm pretty sure that many people who have never played against the deck think that it is a flash in the pan. It certainly is not. I do in fact know that the deck is beatable. But at least the options (other than deck choice) that I have tested, it shows that they will hurt you in other matchups in the meta - the other 98% of decks that you face.
I play Junk typically (currently anyway), and I have to mulligan every hand that doesn't have Thoughtseize/IoK or an Ooze, and this is when I play my friend and I know what he is on.
If I go to a tournament and G1 I keep a hand with double Goyf, a Pulse, and a Decay (a very keepable hand against many decks, especially an unknown Game 1) I almost auto lose to this deck.
Well a) this is the reason matches are best of 3, so that decks like this dont just auto win every match up by being completely unpredictable and fighting on my very good axis. b) so what? There are a ton of extremely lop-sided match ups throughout every format (Burn vs Soul Sisters is a great example). We cant ban every deck that gives another deck a super unfavourable match up or there would be only BGx and Twin decks in the format (even Grixis control has a super unfavourable burn match up).
I am not surprised at the no-bans. The only thing I thought should be banned, i know never will (Twin/Blood Moon) but my reasons are beyond their % of meta or win %.
I am slightly sad at the no unbans. I think there are a few safe unbans (SotM, AV, JtMS) but I am not overly surprised, WotC is definitely on the cautious side when it comes to unbans.
So your reasons are "I don't like these cards and don't want to play against them?" You want blood moon banned but JTMS unbanned?
I just don't understand these threads. How can anyone be disappointed when we've seen so much happening in modern lately? The "wait and see" approach makes sense with where modern is at the moment IMO.
I have listed the reasons why I think those cards should be banned multiple times: Twin represses what can be printed in Blue, which I think is dumb that a card in one colour directly affects what can be printed/unbanned in another colour. Blood Moon needs to be banned purely because its effect is so powerful in so many match ups but exists in only 1 colour. If they reprinted something like Back to Basics or a similar effect in another colour of two, I could careless. So no, my reasons are I dont like these cards but thanks anyways.
JtMS, as has been described dozens of times throughout every unban/ban list discussion, is perfectly safe to unban in Modern but WotC/community have way too much PTSD from its time in Standard to ever let it happen but its still wrong.
I am not very dissappointed, I just think Modern needs a good draw-go control deck and some sort of unbans (like SotM and JtMS) would help that. But as i said before, I am not surprised just saddened that WotC continues to be overly cautious.
I am not surprised at the no-bans. The only thing I thought should be banned, i know never will (Twin/Blood Moon) but my reasons are beyond their % of meta or win %.
I am slightly sad at the no unbans. I think there are a few safe unbans (SotM, AV, JtMS) but I am not overly surprised, WotC is definitely on the cautious side when it comes to unbans.
Wish Wizards would A) be honest and state that some cards are simply far too good for Modern, period, forever and then B) open up to the possibility of printing straight-up fixes, like an SFM that costs WWW or whatever.
Here in lies the problem, what cards are too good for Modern forever? How can they know, as every new cards they print has the possibility of making something on the ban list unplayable (or at least kept in check).
Take Dread Return for instance. Almost everyone agrees the cards is too powerful for Modern (I am one of those). But if WotC printed a 0 mana indestructible artifact that had the same effect as Leyline of the Void and tapped to draw you a card, Dread Return would be useless (I know the card I described was OP but it is to prove a point, its a maindeckable unanswerable card to Dread Return that every deck could play.)
The point of a ban-list that is frequently updated is that as new sets get released and more cards are added to the pool, individual cards become weaker as more and more versatile answers become printed. Cards like SFM or JtMS or whatever, while they may have dominated their respective Standard pools, Modern has many more answers for them than Standard did. Never re-evaluating a card on the ban list or writing it off forever because it was the strongest card out of 4 sets (that's all a Standard rotation a card sees) is just stupid and a waste of good potential deck building opportunities.
I have decided to pick up the deck, after giving up my beloved Amulet Bloom deck. I have been looking for a deck that is more stable and controlling but with a quick finish.
The above is the list I have put together after looking for a bunch of the decks people have been playing. Any criticism would be much appreciated. I have read over the first post but any tips and tricks for a beginner would be great.
hallowed moonlight seems better than the 3rd maindeck shadow of doubt, and that's about it. it is not a sideboard card because it doesn't have enough impact
I dont get the hype behind this card, especially for a draw-go deck like this.
At best, its a negate (for CoCo/Goryo's) that cantrips at worse its just a cantrip. It is far too niche for this deck to mainboard and seems like Negate or Dispel is just a much better and effective use of a sideboard card.
As I read it, you have to cast the card in response to them casting X (be it, CoCo, Goryo's, TTB etc) and they can just choose to not find anything. So all you have done is counter the spell and cantripped, which is great value but seems to narrow to me.
It is just something you have to accept against combo decks; if they have extremely good hands, there is only so much you can do. Decks like Goryo's/Amulet Bloom/Infect are competitive because some # of games every tournament, you are going to have nut hands that just win. But the odds of that happening twice against you are remote; just focus on playing as tight as possible and winning the games they stumble.
I played 5 matches against it a few weeks ago and went 10-0. Just dont tap out for anything, if the game goes late we are in a much better spot than they are. P Angel is unremovable, except by Borbo/firing lands at her. Chalice is a rockstar; put it on 2 forces them to go super late and trying to splice for the win. I found it really easy and my opponent said it felt like unless he went off on turn 2 on the play he was never going to have a really good chance.
But the problem w that is a lot of other colours have their "counterspell" like card: Lightning Bolt, Abrupt Decay, Thoughtseize, Goyf etc while control decks have to play with subpar answers. I would agree with you that Counterspell would be too strong if the card pool for Modern was more at a Standard+ power level but right now Modern seems to be at a Legacy-lite powerlevel for particular colours and not for other colours.
Control players arent asking for it to be tier S, hell I'd be happy if it was a solid tier 1.5 deck.
But if you think that control has the tools currently in Modern to be competitive, you are just wrong. Look at the huge power creep that creatures have undertaken in the last few sets: 5/5 for 2 or 3 CMC, 4/5 for 2 CMC, 4/5+ for 2 CMC etc. While non-creature spells have been taking a huge hit.
The problem that traditional control (draw-go whatever u wanna call it) is that there is no benefit to going late. Chapin quote basically points it out: why run a control deck in Modern (or any format) when you are putting yourself at a huge disadvantage before you have even sleeved up the deck. You are trading cards like Goyf, Tasigur, Lilly, or CoCo for what?
I would love to see Counterspell reprinted or JtMS unbanned to help control; but I just do not see how control can compete against a hostile environment (both in the format and from outside by the hate it gets from both the community and WotC themselves.)
4-0ed a small tournament at my LGS last night
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
9 Island
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Academy Ruins
4 Expedition Map
2 Spellskite
1 Oblivion Stone
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
2 Mindslaver
1 Sundering Titan
Instants
3 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Remand
4 Condescend
2 Treasure Mage
1 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Negate
3 Dismember
2 Aetherspouts
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ratchet Bomb
Match 1 - 2-1 UG Infect
Game 1 - turn 3 Platinum Angel = win
Game 2 - he wins on turn 3 through Spellskite/Dismember
Game 3 - Chalice on 1, 3 Dismembers and a Cyclonic Rift, I am amble to squeeze out a win on the back of P Angel
Sideboard: In 1 Ratchet Bomb,1 Pithing Needle, 3 Dismember, 1 Aetherspout Out Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil, 4 Remand
Match 2 - 2-0 Grixis Control
Game 1 - a few counterspell wars and a chalice on 1 drain his resources and I am able to win on Sundering Titan/Ugin
Game 2 - double Mindslaver lets me do some gross things to his boardstate/hand and he scoops
Sideboard: In 3 Dismember, 1 Wurmcoil Out - Angel, 2 Repeal, 1 ? (cant remember)
Match 3 - 2-1 BUG Infect (yes, again I get paired against BOTH infect players in the room)
Game 1 - I keep a slower hand and he is able to win through a repeal/rift before I can find a wincon
Game 2 - He keeps a hand with 2 Inkmoths and I cant find a Pithing Needle. I am lucky to rip a Mindslaver into Treasure Mage (after keeping a island-less hand with natural Tron) and I am able to Mindslaver him into Platinum Angel (blowing all his pump/dismember).
Game 3 - Is extremely close even though I land a Chalice on 1 and 3 but Mindslaver saves the day again
Sideboard: In 1 Ratchet Bomb,1 Pithing Needle, 3 Dismember, 1 Aetherspout Out Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil, 4 Remand
Match 4 - 2-0 Rug Scapeshift w new Jace
Game 1 - Sundering Titan makes Scapeshift cry
Game 2 - I get to live the dream of Mindslavering him with Scapeshift in hand (I get to bolt him and then sac all his lands) he scoops.
Sideboard: In 3 Negate, 1 Squelch (this was wrong but we have quite a few dead cards) Out 3 Repeal, 1 O Stone
Really loving the deck. Feels really good right now.
Still unsure of the sideboard and what should come in and out against specific match ups, so any help would be great.
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
8 Island
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Academy Ruins
4 Expedition Map
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Spellskite
1 Oblivion Stone
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Mindslaver
1 Sundering Titan
2 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Remand
4 Condescend
Creatures
2 Treasure Mage
1 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Negate
3 Dismember
2 Aetherspouts
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Mindslaver
Game 1 was against Infect 1-2. Lost game 1 on turn 3, oh well. Game 2, was able to land Chalice on 1 and then a Spellskite and win with Snap beats. Game 3, lost through a Dismember and a Chalice on 1 with a Spellskite in hand on turn 3 (their turn 4). Sideboard was +1 Aetherspout, +3 Dismember +2 Negate +1 Pithing Needle - 2 Talisman -3 Remand -1 O Stone -1 Sundering Titan
Game 2 was against Esper control 1-2. Game 1 Won on the back of a Chalice on 2 and a Wurmcoil Engine. Game 2misplayed hard; cast Chalice on 2 and then drew into 4 or 5 Negates/Remands. Game 3 kept a mull to 5 of Island, 2x Negate, 2x Map. Spent the next 6 turns with only the island for a land. By then it was too late but I made a go of it. Was able to get him to 4 but misplayed, countering a Rev for 4 instead of holding the Negate for the WSZ I knew he had in hand. I had to ghost quarter my own Mine to get a second Island so i could play more than 1 spell a turn. Right after fetching the Island from the GQ, I drew 4 islands in a row and end up losing to the WSZ I should have saved a counter for. Sideboard was +1 Mindslaver +1 Pithing Needle (for Colonnade) +4 Negate -2 Spellskite -2 Repeal -2 Remand
Game 3 was against Infect (only 2 ppl in the room playing it, I get both) 2-1. Game 1 he runs me over before turn 4. Game 2, Spellskite + Chalice on 1 + Dismember = sad Infect player. Game 3 we both mull to 6, he first turn plays Inkmoth, I first turn play Pithing Needle and he gets sadder. I am able to follow up with Chalice on 1 into Platinum Angel and thats game.
Game 4 was against Griselshoal 5-0 (we played a few games after as he had never played the match up and I wanted experience with the deck). Chalice on 2 and our counters makes the games feel almost unlosable. In one game I was actually able to land a chalice on 2 and 5. Sideboard -2 Spellskite, -1 Sundering Titan -1 O Stone -2 Remand +3 Negate, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Grafdiggers Cage, +1 Mindslaver
Overall, I feel like I was in every game (except Game 1 vs Infect). I think I may cut a GQ for an Island, but manlands scare me so much, since Repeal/Rift can not hit them. I may cut the 2 Talisman for 1 Island and something (maybe another Mindslaver or Anticipate).
Any suggestions for sideboard (either the actual sideboard or the sideboarding I did would be great).
Thanks all
The way I preferred to think of the deck when I played it, was to think of it like a Midrange deck that has the chance to just win on turn 2. A turn 3 or 4 Titan is just too good sometimes that you dont care if you are winning on turn 2.
Would love to see the list you are using. I want to play the deck, I love the idea of it (the Mentor version) but everytime I play the deck, I feel like I am already behind, especially when I sit down against Grixis Delver or UR Twin.
I think I am a fairly competent players (Im no PT player but I usually end events with positive records) but I just do not feel like the Esper colours make up for missing out on R.
Thanks for sharing
My apologizes then, the way i read it, you made it sound like it was somehow a negative that particular hands were good and others bad against particular decks. So sorry
Well a) this is the reason matches are best of 3, so that decks like this dont just auto win every match up by being completely unpredictable and fighting on my very good axis. b) so what? There are a ton of extremely lop-sided match ups throughout every format (Burn vs Soul Sisters is a great example). We cant ban every deck that gives another deck a super unfavourable match up or there would be only BGx and Twin decks in the format (even Grixis control has a super unfavourable burn match up).
Its why sideboards exist.
I have listed the reasons why I think those cards should be banned multiple times: Twin represses what can be printed in Blue, which I think is dumb that a card in one colour directly affects what can be printed/unbanned in another colour. Blood Moon needs to be banned purely because its effect is so powerful in so many match ups but exists in only 1 colour. If they reprinted something like Back to Basics or a similar effect in another colour of two, I could careless. So no, my reasons are I dont like these cards but thanks anyways.
JtMS, as has been described dozens of times throughout every unban/ban list discussion, is perfectly safe to unban in Modern but WotC/community have way too much PTSD from its time in Standard to ever let it happen but its still wrong.
I am not very dissappointed, I just think Modern needs a good draw-go control deck and some sort of unbans (like SotM and JtMS) would help that. But as i said before, I am not surprised just saddened that WotC continues to be overly cautious.
I am slightly sad at the no unbans. I think there are a few safe unbans (SotM, AV, JtMS) but I am not overly surprised, WotC is definitely on the cautious side when it comes to unbans.
Here in lies the problem, what cards are too good for Modern forever? How can they know, as every new cards they print has the possibility of making something on the ban list unplayable (or at least kept in check).
Take Dread Return for instance. Almost everyone agrees the cards is too powerful for Modern (I am one of those). But if WotC printed a 0 mana indestructible artifact that had the same effect as Leyline of the Void and tapped to draw you a card, Dread Return would be useless (I know the card I described was OP but it is to prove a point, its a maindeckable unanswerable card to Dread Return that every deck could play.)
The point of a ban-list that is frequently updated is that as new sets get released and more cards are added to the pool, individual cards become weaker as more and more versatile answers become printed. Cards like SFM or JtMS or whatever, while they may have dominated their respective Standard pools, Modern has many more answers for them than Standard did. Never re-evaluating a card on the ban list or writing it off forever because it was the strongest card out of 4 sets (that's all a Standard rotation a card sees) is just stupid and a waste of good potential deck building opportunities.
8 Island
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Academy Ruins
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treaure Mage
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel
4 Remand
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Anticipate
3 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Dismember
4 Expedition Map
2 Talisman of Dominion
1 Mindslaver
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Hello all
I have decided to pick up the deck, after giving up my beloved Amulet Bloom deck. I have been looking for a deck that is more stable and controlling but with a quick finish.
The above is the list I have put together after looking for a bunch of the decks people have been playing. Any criticism would be much appreciated. I have read over the first post but any tips and tricks for a beginner would be great.
Thanks for any help guys
I dont get the hype behind this card, especially for a draw-go deck like this.
At best, its a negate (for CoCo/Goryo's) that cantrips at worse its just a cantrip. It is far too niche for this deck to mainboard and seems like Negate or Dispel is just a much better and effective use of a sideboard card.
As I read it, you have to cast the card in response to them casting X (be it, CoCo, Goryo's, TTB etc) and they can just choose to not find anything. So all you have done is counter the spell and cantripped, which is great value but seems to narrow to me.
But maybe I am wrong.