Are people really putting an extra land into play with Atarka's Command all that often? I don't think I've had an opportunity to do that and I've played the card a ton in burn and zoo variants.
Ok, ok, I did it in a Naya landfall brew I had once, but that's different.
The extra land mode could be played as a ramp but very rarely you would. It could however be a winning move too. Likewise, I was able to pull it off one time, in which I already played a land that turn. The scenario was I have 3 lands (Naya colors complete and I played-shocked Foundry that turn), tap my Mountain and cast a Monastery Swiftspear. I swing with it, along with the Goblin Guide I played earlier and opponent was tapped out, and at 11 life. In my hand that time is Atarka's Command, a Mountain and a Lightning Bolt. And how did it play out? My opponent obviously took the damage (not much he can do) and I tapped Sacred Foundry and Stomping Ground, cast Atarka's Command (I'm now tapped out), to which my opponent says, "So 3 damage and +1/+1 I suppose?". I said, "No, I choose 3 damage and play an extra land," and he was puzzled. I played the Mountain from my hand and as my opponent begins to calculate, I said, "Wait up!" and I cast Lightning Bolt. We begin the Math and it goes like Monastery Swiftspear dealing 3 damage (prowess from command and bolt), Goblin Guide for 2 damage, Atarka's Command for 3 and Lightning Bolt for the last 3 damage. And the total? 11 damage for the win! If I've chosen the pump mode, I will only go as far as 9 damage.
Holding up Atarka's Command to be used as a Skullcrack seemed not that right indeed, unless you expect life gain shenanigans from your opponent. I've used it plenty of times as a game winning move, rather than just a Skullcrack.
That was a rhetorical question. Wrath is bad, but I can use the same terrible reasoning that's being used for Devil to claim Wrath is good even though we all agree that it's awful.
Devil was a necessary evil, at best, simply because there wasn't much else to play. Now there are much better cards to play, so you don't have to go fishing for cards just to fill out a 60 card list.
Yeah, T.Wrath is bad indeed, although I admit playing 1x during my mono R days. And yes, there are lots of better cards today that could fit in that 60. Also, who knows if we could get some new toys in the future set? The only new toy we had is Atarka's Command (that is, if using Naya/Jund builds).
Top-decking Thunderous Wrath (as long as you are not on the draw) is surely better than top-decking Devil. And the Devil and Cat discussions are once again adding up pages in this forum.
Anyway, I say that the Devil could be considered a thing in the past during the time when Monastery Swiftspear and Eidolon of the Great Revel doesn't exist yet and also when Burn is still mono R. It is because they aren't good cards for burn yet during that time, hence the Devil and sometimes the ElementalGuys. Also, Boros Burn doesn't exist yet during Devil's time since, Boros Charm doesn't come until the next block following it (although I'm not sure if guys used Lightning Helix, but I doubt it).
Now to the present, Burn has branched into several builds from its mono R form to Naya WRG, Mardu WBR, Jund BRG and even good 'ol Boros WR. With this, there are a lot of better options to choose from unlike before.
You make a great point. Devil is no doubt a horrible topdeck, and haste does work in Guide's favor. Thanks for saying this in a respectful manner. My response is that I feel burn has always been about 4 cards short of an optimum build, and I feel Devil is the best option we have to fill it right now. Not perfect, but better than he's given credit for. I would never replace guides with him, but I'd use him to fill the deck out.
I used to have Devil way back when I don't have Guides too, albeit I was using a Mono R list, before Boros or Naya Burn was a thing. Along with him, I also included Spark Elemental, Hellspark Elemental and even a lone Ball Lightning. Heck, I used to run Browbeat too, until such time I realized it was a bad card indeed even for Mono R builds.
While it is true that Goblin Guide could be a bad top deck in the mid to late game, haste still makes a difference. I've won some games where an opponent is tapped-out, passes the turn and will kill me the next turn if I don't finish him off. Good thing that he is at 2 life, no blockers and I top decked a Guide, casts it and swing for the win. Imagine if that is devil or cat? (And don't get me started with, what if it is "lavaman")
Self-Inflicted Wound really is a good SB card on Mardu/Jund lists vs various WG critters, which normally hates R. It's also a good way to get rid of Kor Firewalker in the mirror.
Im playing the Naya Burn deck list with NaCats. I was wondering what you guys are sideboarding in against the tier 1 match ups? Like what do you do against Jund and Jeskai? I played 10 games against jeskai and lost every one. Timely Reinforcements just sets us back so much.
I mentioned some tips/tricks when battling against Timely Reinforcements, most especially on the turns you don't have life gain hate.
I have mentioned this one before, but for the sake of this list allow me to reiterate it:
When dealing with Timely Reinforcements and you don't have any crack effects/spells, but have an uncracked fetch land and your opponent's life is lower than yours by a small margin, (e.g. You - 17 life; Opponent - 15 life) you can fetch and shock yourself so that your life total will go lower than your opponent. In this way, they won't gain life, but may have those tokens (which really doesn't matter).
Thanks for your response might try 3x blaze and 3x blood in main and 4x wound in side. Still pretty different, i only ever see blaze played at my meta.
Mind posting your full list so that we could all have a look?
Btw I am very strongly against the idea of Vexing devil, Grim Lavamancer, and Wild Nacatl in burn (mb). My meta has looooaaaads of mb removal and these cards turn those dead cards into value cards. I'd rather my opponent hold up mana to take out a threat then get turn 1 or 2 value out of a bolt or path. Turn 1: Fetch shock a stomping grounds, play nacatl (0 damage on my opponent so far). Turn 2: Fetch shock a foundry to turn on nacatl and 2 lands up. Swing with nacatl. Nacatl gets pathed. I'm at 14, my opponents at 20. Garbage.
Similar issue with mb lavamancer. I would go a whole night with 0 damage on my opponents from him. Pay 1r to play him, he does 0 damage that turn. Tap him and pay a red at some point later, he gets removed. I payed 2r over the course of two turns to do 0 damage. Its really bad in my meta at least.
Looks like people went ahead and answered for you. And just what was mentioned about Grim Lavamancer, don't cut it out. It's a very good card in our deck as a 2-of. I wasn't a believer at first about it, but after giving it a try in a GP, boy it was so good! I've won games because of it and those games would've been a loss if I don't have Lavaman.
Thanks for your response might try 3x blaze and 3x blood in main and 4x wound in side. Still pretty different, i only ever see blaze played at my meta.
Mind posting your full list so that we could all have a look?
Firstly, don't include (in any list/build) Thunderous Wrath, Sleeper Agent, Noxious Revival. Thunderous Wrath - looks great at first glance. R for 5 damage seems overpowered - BUT - burn deck doesn't have any way of manipulating topdecks. It's really bad on the draw. Noxious Revival - I really have no idea why you've thought of this. Mutagenic Growth seems better, but we don't play that too. Sleeper Agent - we don't want to give our opponents blockers. The ability of shocking opponent seems ok, but not good. We have Eidolon of the Great Revel for this kind of thing.
I also use Atarka's Command to block those flying inkmoths too, while bolting them to the face. And yes, infect players are aware that as burn, we fetch-to-shock with all ease when fighting against them. They use this opportunity to sometimes kill us with regular combat damage (e.g. Noble Hierarch).
Thoughts on Shard Volley? I kind of want to test a singleton in the mainboard as an additional 1-mana 3 damage card, but I'm worried about the sacrificing a land clause screwing me over. Is it worth it?
I previously ran 1x Shard Volley in the main (having 2x in the opening hand sucks), which is just fine. Like Fireblast in legacy (although not that powerful or efficient), it is best used as a finisher.
The extra land mode could be played as a ramp but very rarely you would. It could however be a winning move too. Likewise, I was able to pull it off one time, in which I already played a land that turn. The scenario was I have 3 lands (Naya colors complete and I played-shocked Foundry that turn), tap my Mountain and cast a Monastery Swiftspear. I swing with it, along with the Goblin Guide I played earlier and opponent was tapped out, and at 11 life. In my hand that time is Atarka's Command, a Mountain and a Lightning Bolt. And how did it play out? My opponent obviously took the damage (not much he can do) and I tapped Sacred Foundry and Stomping Ground, cast Atarka's Command (I'm now tapped out), to which my opponent says, "So 3 damage and +1/+1 I suppose?". I said, "No, I choose 3 damage and play an extra land," and he was puzzled. I played the Mountain from my hand and as my opponent begins to calculate, I said, "Wait up!" and I cast Lightning Bolt. We begin the Math and it goes like Monastery Swiftspear dealing 3 damage (prowess from command and bolt), Goblin Guide for 2 damage, Atarka's Command for 3 and Lightning Bolt for the last 3 damage. And the total? 11 damage for the win! If I've chosen the pump mode, I will only go as far as 9 damage.
Yeah, T.Wrath is bad indeed, although I admit playing 1x during my mono R days. And yes, there are lots of better cards today that could fit in that 60. Also, who knows if we could get some new toys in the future set? The only new toy we had is Atarka's Command (that is, if using Naya/Jund builds).
Anyway, I say that the Devil could be considered a thing in the past during the time when Monastery Swiftspear and Eidolon of the Great Revel doesn't exist yet and also when Burn is still mono R. It is because they aren't good cards for burn yet during that time, hence the Devil and sometimes the Elemental Guys. Also, Boros Burn doesn't exist yet during Devil's time since, Boros Charm doesn't come until the next block following it (although I'm not sure if guys used Lightning Helix, but I doubt it).
Now to the present, Burn has branched into several builds from its mono R form to Naya WRG, Mardu WBR, Jund BRG and even good 'ol Boros WR. With this, there are a lot of better options to choose from unlike before.
I used to have Devil way back when I don't have Guides too, albeit I was using a Mono R list, before Boros or Naya Burn was a thing. Along with him, I also included Spark Elemental, Hellspark Elemental and even a lone Ball Lightning. Heck, I used to run Browbeat too, until such time I realized it was a bad card indeed even for Mono R builds.
Well just saying.
I mentioned some tips/tricks when battling against Timely Reinforcements, most especially on the turns you don't have life gain hate.
Looks like people went ahead and answered for you. And just what was mentioned about Grim Lavamancer, don't cut it out. It's a very good card in our deck as a 2-of. I wasn't a believer at first about it, but after giving it a try in a GP, boy it was so good! I've won games because of it and those games would've been a loss if I don't have Lavaman.
Mind posting your full list so that we could all have a look?
Firstly, don't include (in any list/build) Thunderous Wrath, Sleeper Agent, Noxious Revival.
Thunderous Wrath - looks great at first glance. R for 5 damage seems overpowered - BUT - burn deck doesn't have any way of manipulating topdecks. It's really bad on the draw.
Noxious Revival - I really have no idea why you've thought of this. Mutagenic Growth seems better, but we don't play that too.
Sleeper Agent - we don't want to give our opponents blockers. The ability of shocking opponent seems ok, but not good. We have Eidolon of the Great Revel for this kind of thing.
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Collateral Damage - it's a good card for mono R lists running the elemental package and Keldon Marauders. You can throw those Spark Elemental or Hellspark Elemental when they are done for additional damage (or if opponent attempted to block or kill them in combat).
Self-inflicted wound - is a good SB card for Mardu or Jund lists. It's very good against Boogles.
Searing Spells are good in all types of builds. Just figure out how many you think is appropriate for your build.
I previously ran 1x Shard Volley in the main (having 2x in the opening hand sucks), which is just fine. Like Fireblast in legacy (although not that powerful or efficient), it is best used as a finisher.