It seems a more aggro approach, cutting Cryptics. And the interaction between Queller and Teferi seems great. Not a tier 1 deck, but it seems a lot of fun.
What do you guys think of Terminate/Dreadbore split these days? I play 0/2 and it feels ok. What for do we need instant speed clause in Terminate that makes an ability of killing PW less valuable?
I'm also on the plan of 0 terminates and 2 dreadbores. The major downsides, as far as i can see (besides the obvious instant vs sorcery) is not being able to kill the haste titan when facing amulet titan decks and manlands. We have fatal push for the manlands, but for the titan, we will probably take a good hit. Also haste/flash creatures (Clique could be troublesome since it can take away our dreadbore if it's the only removal in our hand) or Kitesail would be better answered with a terminate. Even so, I'm on the plan of 2 dreadbores, because i feel that the number of pw is increasing - teferi and gideon have joined the list of modern playable planewalkers - so it's a matter of choice.
You have to threat surgical as a combo hate, not a GY hate. Surgical is not impactful enough as a functional GY hate.
I understand that is not GY hate, i was just asking in which matchups Spellbomb is much better than Surgical. As far as i understand, it's only against dredge and storm. For the rest, a Surgical can be as good or even better in some situations:
- vs control, responding to a Snapcaster targeting a cryptic
- vs hollow one, responding to the phoenix/bloodghast ability
- vs mardu pyro, when a kommand tries to return a bedlam or removing lingering souls.
Those are just examples ofc - maybe the best situations for Surgical and for other situations is simply worse.
And I don't agree that the Spellbomb is better than Surgical against KCI. I feel that removing their pieces of the combo is much better (some versions only have a pyrite spellbomb as a wincon, but even getting a Scrap Trawler would be way better than just removing the GY).
I agree, in general, but I feel that Leyline is simply the most powerful GY hate effect we have access to that doesn't screw our gameplan over. Nihil Spellbomb can be decent, but a one-off effect rather than a static one is often just not good enough.
I don't think the "pitch it to Looting" argument magically makes Leyline good, I just think that it offsets the downside of Leyline enough to make running it for graveyard matchups - which do come up - the best option, rather than less effective hate pieces.
There are good and valid arguments for both Leyline and Spellbomb. Leyline is great when in the opening hand and a terrible draw. Spellbomb, when it's not the best draw, at least can replace itself. Leyline doesn't remove the current GY (so delve creatures/recurrent threats can still be played/used). The Spellbomb is a one-off efffect (like you said) and Leyline just stays around until opponent deals with it. But imo, the biggest point in favor of Spellbomb is that you can have 2 in the sideboard and with it have a decent gy hate, while for Leyline you need at least 3 (maybe even 4) slots so you have a decent chance to get it in the opening hand. But in the end, it will come down to which one we prefer.
I wouldn't play surgical only. I think its very weak alone. You basically have no GY hate in that SB. At least play some Spellbombs in addition to 1-2 surgicals.
(I don't have many experience with the deck, 3/4 weeks).
But in which matches do we want GY hate that it can't be achieved with surgical as well? I thought about it, but couldn't find an answer. Yes, it doesn't stop the delve creatures (a mirror bedlam can almost be considered a delve creature), but for the rest, surgical can take care of almost anything.
The top decks right now, accordingly to mtggoldfish: Tron and humans we wouldn't bring a spellbomb (yet, against Tron we could try to surgical one of their lands). Jeskai Control, Mardu Pyro and UW Control, a spellbomb would stop/delay an Azcanta/Bedlam, but surgical could stop the rest (snapcaster, flashback souls/looting). For BR Hollow One, KCI and Grixis Shadow, surgical can stop their recurrent threats while spellbomb delays Delve creatures. Against Dredge and Storm is where spellbomb would shine more than surgical, yet, a well timed extraction can foil our opponent's plans.
Not sure if this is correct, maybe there is something missing here, a piece of the puzzle that i'm not seeing. If so, please enlight me (for real! i didn't understood why molten rain instead of fulminator until a few weeks ago, so maybe there is something missing in my analysis)
I played a 8-man tournament at my LGS, unfortunately it didn't go that well.
Hollow One 2-0
First match - Blood Moon locked him out of black, and his hand was full of delve creatures.
Second match - Leyline of the Void on my opening hand. LtlH was MVP, allowing me to kill an Hollow One and a Gurmag Angler (after leyline was destroyed). Her ultimate came a bit after.
Not sure exactly how is this matchup for us, but it felt very good.
G Tron 0-2
First match - Blood Moon on turn 3 wasn't enough. My opponent just smiled, played an O-Stone on next turn and on turn 5 blew everything and played the big threats next.
Second match- I had a starting hand of 3 lands + LotV + bolt + terminate + souls. I decided to mulligan (maybe i was wrong) since i didn't had any hate cards. The 6 card hand had 2 hate pieces, but only 1 land. I kept it, although i was on the play, i had looting in hand. No lands were found, and I conceded on turn 6 without seeing any land (my opponent didn't have any pressure, but at least had 5 lands in play).
Tron just seems impossible to win (for our deck) without luck...
UR Wizards Prowess 1-2
First match - I won the match with 2 life, even though he had 2 Thunderous Wrath in a row. Collective Brutality helped a lot.
Second match - Mulligan to 5, kept an hand with only 1 hand... Haven't found any more lands.
Third match - Kept an hand with looting, pyro, 2 iok, 1 fatal push, LtlH and 1 land. Again, no more lands were found...
I feel i should have won this game, unfortunately I got screwed 2 times in a row.
I lost 4 matches, 3 of them was because i got mana screwed. Not sure if I was unlucky or the 20 lands count is not enough (maybe I took some unnecessary risks). Would it help adding a Ghost Quarter? Anyone else had the same problem?
I also changed my sideboard, to have Surgical Extraction instead of Leyline to give more options against Tron. Right now, it looks something like this.
Lets not leave out Dawnbringer Angel. Its strong enough to go maindeck
Actually with Danwbringer, Gideon, and Teferi, I may drop the Suns altogether.
Even though UW has gotten some new powerful weapons, it does not look like they will solve the duress/negate/doomfall problem that the deck suffers from
Some weird (aka different) choices, imo. No Serum Visions and 2 timely reinforcements in mainboard + sphinx's revelation. Well, at least the burn matchup may be a good one
I also run 4 copies of JtMS, he's the only brainstorm effect we have, and 6 fetchs + 4 FoR to shuffle the deck. I also have a lower land count (23) due to the amount of draw (8 Cantrips + 4 Spreading Seas + snaps + Cryptics). Regarding Miracles, I cut 1 Entreat - It's awful when you have one in your hand, it's even worse if you draw both. Usually my opponents concede when we have jace on an empty board and they're hand is empty or it can't deal with him, so no point in having more clunky cards in my deck like Entreat. I don't run any Search for Azcanta, because i have mixed feelings about it. Maybe i'll test it in this deck sometime.
I had 2, but SE is not a great answer to tron decks... Yes, sometimes you can get them, but even then they can still get lands to cast their threats - we are not that fast in killing them, we don't have a good clock.
G1 is terrible vs Gx Tron. Then you have to have both (FoR + SE) on turn 3 or else you may have to deal with a Karn. On the draw it can simply be too slow... That's why i added spreading seas. It can keep them off tron in both G1 and on the draw.
I have only played on mtgo yet, and only in friendly matchs (no leagues yet). I had 2 lists that i wanted to test (one with Ancestral Vision and the other with Telling Time). Of those two, I prefered the one with AV, because i was facing more jund (people were testing BBE) and other midrange decks. And then i started facing Tron... And i couldn't do anything, even with 4 Field of Ruin
So i created a 3rd version, without AV and TT, but with 4 Spreading Seas. And I liked that version!
Jeff Hoogland tried a UW Miracles version after Jace's unban. What do you guys think about it? The list looked really fun to me, not sure if it will be competitive enough...
Well, you can see it two ways: Or they unbanned jtms to sell boosters or they reprinted jtms because they planned to unban it and if it was the case, it needed a reprint to keep the prices from skyrocketing. I agree with lantern, but maybe other decks will emerge and lantern will keep being a t2 deck. Also, i don't think jtms deserved to be banned, it's a very powerful card in a format with lots of powerful cards. The only problem i see with it is that it may become be the finisher for every blue control deck - a bit like twin was - but other than that, i think it is pretty fair.
I'm gonna go against the grain and predict that JTMS will not break the format at all. In fact, it's only going to see play as a 1-2 of in a couple decks and most of those are underdog decks right now.
+1
After the eldrazi winter, the linear strat decks were everywhere, usually winning before turn 4. Imo that would be the best time to unban jtms, giving the blue control decks at the time a chance to win if they could survive. Right now it's a bit more problematic, since there are already some U control decks (and lantern control), but i'm still expecting the format to be balanced. Maybe i'm wrong, but i had the same opinion of AV and when it was unbanned, everyone was doomsaying that modern would die because of it.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2045030#paper
It seems a more aggro approach, cutting Cryptics. And the interaction between Queller and Teferi seems great. Not a tier 1 deck, but it seems a lot of fun.
I'm also on the plan of 0 terminates and 2 dreadbores. The major downsides, as far as i can see (besides the obvious instant vs sorcery) is not being able to kill the haste titan when facing amulet titan decks and manlands. We have fatal push for the manlands, but for the titan, we will probably take a good hit. Also haste/flash creatures (Clique could be troublesome since it can take away our dreadbore if it's the only removal in our hand) or Kitesail would be better answered with a terminate. Even so, I'm on the plan of 2 dreadbores, because i feel that the number of pw is increasing - teferi and gideon have joined the list of modern playable planewalkers - so it's a matter of choice.
I understand that is not GY hate, i was just asking in which matchups Spellbomb is much better than Surgical. As far as i understand, it's only against dredge and storm. For the rest, a Surgical can be as good or even better in some situations:
- vs control, responding to a Snapcaster targeting a cryptic
- vs hollow one, responding to the phoenix/bloodghast ability
- vs mardu pyro, when a kommand tries to return a bedlam or removing lingering souls.
Those are just examples ofc - maybe the best situations for Surgical and for other situations is simply worse.
And I don't agree that the Spellbomb is better than Surgical against KCI. I feel that removing their pieces of the combo is much better (some versions only have a pyrite spellbomb as a wincon, but even getting a Scrap Trawler would be way better than just removing the GY).
There are good and valid arguments for both Leyline and Spellbomb. Leyline is great when in the opening hand and a terrible draw. Spellbomb, when it's not the best draw, at least can replace itself. Leyline doesn't remove the current GY (so delve creatures/recurrent threats can still be played/used). The Spellbomb is a one-off efffect (like you said) and Leyline just stays around until opponent deals with it. But imo, the biggest point in favor of Spellbomb is that you can have 2 in the sideboard and with it have a decent gy hate, while for Leyline you need at least 3 (maybe even 4) slots so you have a decent chance to get it in the opening hand. But in the end, it will come down to which one we prefer.
(I don't have many experience with the deck, 3/4 weeks).
But in which matches do we want GY hate that it can't be achieved with surgical as well? I thought about it, but couldn't find an answer. Yes, it doesn't stop the delve creatures (a mirror bedlam can almost be considered a delve creature), but for the rest, surgical can take care of almost anything.
The top decks right now, accordingly to mtggoldfish: Tron and humans we wouldn't bring a spellbomb (yet, against Tron we could try to surgical one of their lands). Jeskai Control, Mardu Pyro and UW Control, a spellbomb would stop/delay an Azcanta/Bedlam, but surgical could stop the rest (snapcaster, flashback souls/looting). For BR Hollow One, KCI and Grixis Shadow, surgical can stop their recurrent threats while spellbomb delays Delve creatures. Against Dredge and Storm is where spellbomb would shine more than surgical, yet, a well timed extraction can foil our opponent's plans.
Not sure if this is correct, maybe there is something missing here, a piece of the puzzle that i'm not seeing. If so, please enlight me (for real! i didn't understood why molten rain instead of fulminator until a few weeks ago, so maybe there is something missing in my analysis)
I played a 8-man tournament at my LGS, unfortunately it didn't go that well.
Hollow One 2-0
First match - Blood Moon locked him out of black, and his hand was full of delve creatures.
Second match - Leyline of the Void on my opening hand. LtlH was MVP, allowing me to kill an Hollow One and a Gurmag Angler (after leyline was destroyed). Her ultimate came a bit after.
Not sure exactly how is this matchup for us, but it felt very good.
G Tron 0-2
First match - Blood Moon on turn 3 wasn't enough. My opponent just smiled, played an O-Stone on next turn and on turn 5 blew everything and played the big threats next.
Second match- I had a starting hand of 3 lands + LotV + bolt + terminate + souls. I decided to mulligan (maybe i was wrong) since i didn't had any hate cards. The 6 card hand had 2 hate pieces, but only 1 land. I kept it, although i was on the play, i had looting in hand. No lands were found, and I conceded on turn 6 without seeing any land (my opponent didn't have any pressure, but at least had 5 lands in play).
Tron just seems impossible to win (for our deck) without luck...
UR Wizards Prowess 1-2
First match - I won the match with 2 life, even though he had 2 Thunderous Wrath in a row. Collective Brutality helped a lot.
Second match - Mulligan to 5, kept an hand with only 1 hand... Haven't found any more lands.
Third match - Kept an hand with looting, pyro, 2 iok, 1 fatal push, LtlH and 1 land. Again, no more lands were found...
I feel i should have won this game, unfortunately I got screwed 2 times in a row.
I lost 4 matches, 3 of them was because i got mana screwed. Not sure if I was unlucky or the 20 lands count is not enough (maybe I took some unnecessary risks). Would it help adding a Ghost Quarter? Anyone else had the same problem?
I also changed my sideboard, to have Surgical Extraction instead of Leyline to give more options against Tron. Right now, it looks something like this.
Not sure if it's the right move. Against Hollow One, Leyline was really good.
Best regards.
Where is approach?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/985655#paper
Some weird (aka different) choices, imo. No Serum Visions and 2 timely reinforcements in mainboard + sphinx's revelation. Well, at least the burn matchup may be a good one
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/962385#paper
1 entreat, 2 terminus (one in sb)
G1 is terrible vs Gx Tron. Then you have to have both (FoR + SE) on turn 3 or else you may have to deal with a Karn. On the draw it can simply be too slow... That's why i added spreading seas. It can keep them off tron in both G1 and on the draw.
So i created a 3rd version, without AV and TT, but with 4 Spreading Seas. And I liked that version!
Blood moon followed by jtms = ggwp? (jk)
edit: now more serious, i think this would be an auto-include in blue moon, the only question would be how many.
+1
After the eldrazi winter, the linear strat decks were everywhere, usually winning before turn 4. Imo that would be the best time to unban jtms, giving the blue control decks at the time a chance to win if they could survive. Right now it's a bit more problematic, since there are already some U control decks (and lantern control), but i'm still expecting the format to be balanced. Maybe i'm wrong, but i had the same opinion of AV and when it was unbanned, everyone was doomsaying that modern would die because of it.