2019 Holiday Exchange!
 
A New and Exciting Beginning
 
The End of an Era
  • 1

    posted a message on Does persist work even after Contradict/ Counterspell was used?
    [c]Thunderblust[/c] -> Thunderblust
    [c]Contradict[/c] -> Contradict

    Quote from Iginto »
    So basically i summon a Thunderblust which has persist on it and my opponent used Contradict to counter the spell. So will persist still work even though it says on the rules that 'counter: cancel a spell or ability so it doesn’t resolve and none of its effects occur'?
    No, the Thunderblust was never on the battlefield.
    702.78. Persist
    702.78a Persist is a triggered ability. “Persist” means “When this permanent is put into a graveyard
    from the battlefield, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner’s
    control with a -1/-1 counter on it.”

    700.4. The term dies means “is put into a graveyard from the battlefield.”
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • 1

    posted a message on Layers Question in Regards to Mutate Triggers
    Quote from NavoMan »
    That is basically what I was expecting to hear though disappointing.

    Ok, so same scenario, but with Sol Ring getting blown up for a beast token. Then cast Hatching Plans and mutate Orimi, the Ever-Playful again to blow up Hatching Plans for a beast token AND return Sol Ring to my hand. This event would basically insure that I have 1 Sawtusk Demolisher target and 1 Boneyard Lurker target each time I mutate. This works, correct?

    To make sure I understand you:
    1. ... a mutating creature spell resolves, resulting in a merged creature that includes Boneyard Lurker and Sawtusk Demolisher (one of which may have just been added). This triggers its mutation abilities; I'll assume it's just those two for now.
    2. You would get priority, but there are triggered abilities to put on the stack. You control them both, so you choose the order (not that it will matter much). A) You put "Whenever this creature mutates, return target permanent card from your graveyard to your hand." on the stack, choosing the Sol Ring in your graveyard as the target. B) You put "Whenever this creature mutates, destroy target noncreature permanent. Its controller creates a 3/3 green Beast token." on the stack, choosing your Hatching Plans as the target.
    3. You get priority and pass.
    4. Opponent gets priority and passes.
    5. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 2B) resolves. You destroy Hatching Plans, triggering its ability. You create a 3/3 green Beast token, triggering the ability of Wirewood Savage.
    6. You would get priority, but there is are triggered abilities to put on the stack. A) You put "When Hatching Plans is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, draw three cards." on the stack. B) You put "Whenever a Beast enters the battlefield, you may draw a card." on the stack.
    7. You get priority and pass.
    8. Opponent gets priority and passes.
    9. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 6B) resolves. You may draw a card.
    10. You get priority and pass.
    11. Opponent gets priority and passes.
    12. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 6A) resolves. You draw three cards.
    13. You get priority and pass.
    14. Opponent gets priority and passes.
    15. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 2A) resolves. You return Sol Ring from your graveyard to your hand
    16. You get priority and maybe you cast Sol Ring....
    If Sol Ring is on the battlefield and Hatching Plans in the graveyard when you mutate a creature, the result is much the same with those swapped (and of course Sol Ring won't trigger anything when it goes to the graveyard). Also, you probably added Sawtusk Demolisher before Boneyard Lurker to ensure that one of those was already in the graveyard.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • 1

    posted a message on Layers Question in Regards to Mutate Triggers
    Quote from NavoMan »
    I've been told by people before that you have to select targets for triggers as they are placed on the stack,

    Exactly. In your sequence, you would have to choose the "target permanent card from your graveyard" from Boneyard Lurker's ability well before the ability of Sawtusk Demolisher resolves.
    603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 117, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.
    603.3a A triggered ability is controlled by the player who controlled its source at the time it triggered, unless it’s a delayed triggered ability. To determine the controller of a delayed triggered ability, see rules 603.7d–f.
    603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities they control on the stack in any order they choose. (See rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.
    603.3c If a triggered ability is modal, its controller announces the mode choice when putting the ability on the stack. If one of the modes would be illegal (due to an inability to choose legal targets, for example), that mode can’t be chosen. If no mode is chosen, the ability is removed from the stack. (See rule 700.2.)
    603.3d The remainder of the process for putting a triggered ability on the stack is identical to the process for casting a spell listed in rules 601.2c–d. If a choice is required when the triggered ability goes on the stack but no legal choices can be made for it, or if a rule or a continuous effect otherwise makes the ability illegal, the ability is simply removed from the stack.

    601.2c The player announces their choice of an appropriate object or player for each target the spell requires. A spell may require some targets only if an alternative or additional cost (such as a kicker cost) or a particular mode was chosen for it; otherwise, the spell is cast as though it did not require those targets. Similarly, a spell may require alternative targets only if an alternative or additional cost was chosen for it. If the spell has a variable number of targets, the player announces how many targets they will choose before they announce those targets. In some cases, the number of targets will be defined by the spell’s text. Once the number of targets the spell has is determined, that number doesn’t change, even if the information used to determine the number of targets does. The same target can’t be chosen multiple times for any one instance of the word “target” on the spell. However, if the spell uses the word “target” in multiple places, the same object or player can be chosen once for each instance of the word “target” (as long as it fits the targeting criteria). If any effects say that an object or player must be chosen as a target, the player chooses targets so that they obey the maximum possible number of such effects
    without violating any rules or effects that say that an object or player can’t be chosen as a target. The chosen objects and/or players each become a target of that spell. (Any abilities that trigger when those objects and/or players become the target of a spell trigger at this point; they’ll wait to be put on the stack until the spell has finished being cast.)
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • 1

    posted a message on Changing a spell's target to a card with an increased cost
    If you change the target of a spell to one that has an increased cost to target (Elderwood Scion), do you have to pay the increased cost? If Grip of Chaos changes the target of a spell my opponent controls to my Elderwood Scion, does the controller of the spell have to pay the 2 or no since the spell has already been paid?
    The cost was actually "locked in" shortly before they paid the cost. The Elderwood Scion's effect is irrelevant after that.

    601.2f The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If multiple cost reductions apply, the player may apply them in any order. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can’t be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
    601.2g If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to activate mana abilities (see rule 605, “Mana Abilities”). Mana abilities must be activated before costs are paid.
    601.2h The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed. Unpayable costs can’t be paid.
    Example: You cast Altar’s Reap, which costs {1}{B} and has an additional cost of sacrificing a creature. You sacrifice Thunderscape Familiar, whose effect makes your black spells cost {1} less to cast. Because a spell’s total cost is “locked in” before payments are actually made, you pay {B}, not {1}{B}, even though you’re sacrificing the Familiar.
    601.2i Once the steps described in 601.2a–h are completed, effects that modify the characteristics of the spell as it’s cast are applied, then the spell becomes cast. Any abilities that trigger when a spell is cast or put onto the stack trigger at this time. If the spell’s controller had priority before casting it, they get priority.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • 1

    posted a message on Wild Evocation/Omen Machine (other "force player to cast" spell.)
    All right, so when forced to cast a spell without paying its mana cost, the player cannot be forced to activate mana abilities to pay it or be forced to reveal information in a "hidden zone." Anything else (such as discard, paying life, sacrificing a permanent,etc.) must be done (if possible) as long as the spell has legal target(s) (if necessary.)

    Is there anything else besides activating mana abilities or revealing hidden information that cannot be forced?

    No, those are the only things you're not required to do.
    118. Costs

    118.3c Activating mana abilities is not mandatory, even if paying a cost is.
    Example: A player controls Lodestone Golem, which says “Nonartifact spells cost {1} more to cast.” Another player removes the last time counter from a suspended sorcery card. That player must cast that spell if able, but doing so costs {1}. The player is forced to pay that cost if enough mana is in their mana pool, but the player isn’t forced to
    activate a mana ability to produce that mana. If they don’t, the card simply remains exiled.

    118.8c If an effect instructs a player to cast a spell “if able,” and that spell has a mandatory additional cost that includes actions involving cards with a stated quality in a hidden zone, the player isn’t required to cast that spell, even if those cards are present in that zone.


    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • 1

    posted a message on Uncontrolled Infestation...
    I'm assuming they would all play out the same...?
    Probably, depending on the ability. (For example, this would be a "yes" for Blighted Gorge or Buried Ruin, with the addition of a mana payment in step 2 being the only change other than the name and effect.) Definite answers about card effects require the actual card text, which is why this forum expects card tags for such questions. If the sacrifice is before the colon, then it is part of the cost, which means it is paid up-front, before any triggers can go on the stack or responses can be attempted (let alone resolve).
    602. Activating Activated Abilities
    602.1. Activated abilities have a cost and an effect. They are written as “[Cost]: [Effect.] [Activation instructions (if any).]”
    602.1a The activation cost is everything before the colon (:). An ability’s activation cost must be paid by the player who is activating it.
    Example: The activation cost of an ability that reads “2, T: You gain 1 life” is two mana of any type plus tapping the permanent that has the ability.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • 1

    posted a message on What do you do if Isochron Scepter has multiple imprinted cards?
    Quote from Gamebuster »
    And then on my turn I cast Isochron Scepter with two instants/sorceries in my hand.

    I'm going to treat this as if you wrote two instants here and later. (Unlike Panoptic Mirror, a sorcery card is not an option.)

    Quote from Gamebuster »
    When I activate Isochron Scepter's ability, can I cast one or both of the imprinted spells?

    Yes. (You make separate copy and cast decisions for each one.)
    607.3. If, within a pair of linked abilities, one ability refers to a single object as “the exiled card,” “a card exiled with [this card],” or a similar phrase, and the other ability has exiled multiple cards (usually because it was copied), the ability refers to each of the exiled cards. If that ability asks for any information about the exiled card, such as a characteristic or converted mana cost, it gets multiple answers. If these answers are used to determine the value of a variable, the sum of the answers is used. If that ability performs any actions on the exiled card, it performs that action on each exiled card.

    Quote from Gamebuster »
    If both can be cast, in what order are they cast in?
    The order you choose at that time.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • 1

    posted a message on Man-o'-War + Portcullis
    Quote from HandsomeP »
    If I have Equilibrium in play and then cast Man-o'-War can I return TWO of my opponent's creatures to his/her hand by paying 1 mana?

    Yes, the sequence would be something like this:
    1. Your main phase begins.
    2. You get priority and cast Man-o'-War. You pay the cost using 2U obtained in an unspecified way. This triggers the ability of Equilibrium.
    3. You would get priority, but there is a triggered ability to put on the stack. You put "Whenever you cast a creature spell, you may pay 1. If you do, return target creature to its owner's hand." on the stack, choosing a creature as the target (apparently one controlled by your opponent).
    4. You get priority and pass.
    5. Opponent gets priority and passes.
    6. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 3) resolves. You pay 1 using mana obtained in an unspecified way. You return the chosen target to its owner's hand (presumably your opponent's hand).
    7. You get priority and pass.
    8. Opponent gets priority and passes.
    9. The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 2) resolves. You put Man-o'-War onto the battlefield. This triggers its ability.
    10. You would get priority, but there is a triggered ability to put on the stack. You put "When Man-o'-War enters the battlefield, return target creature to its owner's hand." on the stack. You choose a creature as the target (probably controlled by your opponent). Note that the creature returned in step 6 is no longer around to be chosen.
    11. You get priority and pass.
    12. Opponent gets priority and passes.
    13. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 10) resolves. You return that chosen target to its owner's hand.
    14. You get priority and ....
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • 1

    posted a message on Question about Devotion
    Could I take Kruphix, God of Horizons, and then use Mind Bend or similar to make it say 'green and green,'

    Yes....
    would my green creatures count twice, and I could focus on green 'dorks' and blue draws or whatever?

    No, each mana symbol counts only once for devotion, even if it has "both" colors, such as Simic Guildmage.
    700.5. A player’s devotion to [color] is equal to the number of mana symbols of that color among the
    mana costs of permanents that player controls. A player’s devotion to [color 1] and [color 2] is
    equal to the number of mana symbols among the mana costs of permanents that player controls that
    are [color 1], [color 2], or both colors.

    Journey into Nyx Release Notes
    Compiled by Matt Tabak, with contributions from Laurie Cheers, Carsten Haese, Eli Shiffrin, Zoe Stephenson, and Thijs van Ommen
    Document last modified February 10, 2014

    * Your devotion to two colors is equal to the number of mana symbols that are the first color, the second color, or both colors among the mana costs of permanents you control. Specifically, a hybrid mana symbol counts only once toward your devotion to its two colors. For example, if the only nonland permanents you control are Pharika, God of Affliction and Golgari Guildmage (whose mana cost is (B/G)(B/G)), your devotion to black and green is four.

    Also, is Kruphix's last ability forever or is there like an 'until end of turn' implied? I think it would say it, but just to be safe.

    It's only while it's on the battlefield, like other static abilities (such as "You have no maximum hand size." or Pin to the Earth's "Enchanted creature gets -6/-0.").
    604.2. Static abilities create continuous effects, some of which are prevention effects or replacement
    effects. These effects are active as long as the permanent with the ability remains on the battlefield
    and has the ability, or as long as the object with the ability remains in the appropriate zone, as
    described in rule 113.6.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • 1

    posted a message on Dromoka's Command vs Eidolon
    Quote from The Fluff »
    Hi, an opponent has an Eidolon of the Great Revel on the field. I cast Dromoka's command choose the mode target player sacrifice an enchantment. Would my opponent have to sacrifice the eidolon?

    Types: Enchantment Creature — Spirit

    You didn't say whether that opponent controls any other enchantments. If they do, they can sacrifice one of those instead. If Eidolon of the Great Revel is the only enchantment they control as they get to that mode of Dromoka's Command (given that you didn't specify the other mode you chose), then that is the one they'll have to sacrifice.
    608.2h If an effect refers to certain characteristics, it checks only for the value of the specified characteristics, regardless of any related ones an object may also have.
    Example: An effect that reads “Destroy all black creatures” destroys a white-and-black creature, but one that reads “Destroy all nonblack creatures” doesn’t.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.