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  • posted a message on Lithoform Engine Copying Mana Abilities
    [c]Lithoform Engine[/c] -> Lithoform Engine

    Artifacts that copy abilities (at least some of the time) state that mana abilities can not be copied, such as Illusionist's Bracers and Rings of Brighthearth. Lithform Engine does not have that limitation expressly stated, so I'm wondering if I would be able to target the mana ability of a card like Priest of Titania with Lithform's first ability.
    No.
    605.3b An activated mana ability doesn’t go on the stack, so it can’t be targeted, countered, or
    otherwise responded to. Rather, it resolves immediately after it is activated. (See rule 405.6c.)


    The intervening if clause on Illusionist's Bracers and Ring of Brighthearth isn't to keep them from copying, it's to keep those abilities from triggering at all.
    603.4. A triggered ability may read “When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect].” When
    the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers
    only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it
    resolves. If the condition isn’t true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does
    nothing. Note that this mirrors the check for legal targets. This rule is referred to as the “intervening
    ‘if’ clause” rule. (The word “if” has only its normal English meaning anywhere else in the text of a
    card; this rule only applies to an “if” that immediately follows a trigger condition.)
    Example: Felidar Sovereign reads, “At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 40 or
    more life, you win the game.” Its controller’s life total is checked as that player’s upkeep
    begins. If that player has 39 or less life, the ability doesn’t trigger at all. If that player has
    40 or more life, the ability triggers and goes on the stack. As the ability resolves, that
    player’s life total is checked again. If that player has 39 or less life at this time, the ability is
    removed from the stack and has no effect. If that player has 40 or more life at this time, the
    ability resolves and that player wins the game.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Elderwood Scion and additional targets spells
    Hello.

    If i have a Elderwood Scion and a Fabled Hero on the battlefield and i cast Colossal Heroics on both of my creatures, will the additional cost from Colossal Heroics be reduced when targeting Elderwood Scion?

    The total cost will be reduced.
    601.2f The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If multiple cost reductions apply, the player may apply them in any order. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can’t be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.

    Mana cost: 2G
    Additional cost: 1G
    Cost reduction: 2
    Total cost: 2G + 1G - 2 = 1GG

    What about if i cast something like Tandem Tactics and simillar effects? Will Elderwood Scion make the spell cheaper?

    If the spell you cast targets your Elderwood Scion (and there is generic mana in its cost to be reduced), absolutely.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Rule 506.4b Year of Implementation
    Quote from Rezzahan »
    Tapping a blocker, however, has never removed it from combat, nor made a blocked creature unblocked, far as I know.

    This is correct. From page 26 of The Original Magic Rulebook:
    If a creature became tapped after it was assigned as a blocker, the creature still blocks but doesn't deal any damage.

    Edit:
    Quote from titanz91 »
    Never even thought of using the way back machine! thank you for your assistance my dude.

    I already had the original link, but it stopped working at some point. Fortunately, it was in that archive.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Rule 506.4b Year of Implementation
    Quote from titanz91 »
    I understand how this rule works (of course correct me if I'm just talking nonsense), I'm just wondering if anybody knows how long this particular rule has been around? Has it been around since or near the beginning of the game or was it perhaps a rule update/change later?

    Since 1999: http://web.archive.org/web/19991129041419/http://www.wizards.com/magic/advanced/6e/6E_Letter.asp

    Before that, tapping a blocking creature would mean that it didn't deal combat damage. But it was still a blocking creature and the attacking creature remained blocked.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Supreme Verdict vs Hallow
    Quote from EnndGame »

    Do all my creatures die ??
    Yes. The only thing Hallow prevents is damage, and Supreme Verdict doesn't deal any.
    Damage
    Objects can deal “damage” to creatures, planeswalkers, and players. This is generally detrimental to the object or player that receives that damage. See rule 120, “Damage.”

    120. Damage
    120.1. Objects can deal damage to creatures, planeswalkers, and players. This is generally detrimental to the object or player that receives that damage. An object that deals damage is the source of that damage.
    120.1a Damage can’t be dealt to an object that’s neither a creature nor a planeswalker.
    120.2. Any object can deal damage.
    120.2a Damage may be dealt as a result of combat. Each attacking and blocking creature deals combat damage equal to its power during the combat damage step.
    120.2b Damage may be dealt as an effect of a spell or ability. The spell or ability will specify which object deals that damage.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on One with nothing + Dream Salvage / does that work?
    If you have both cards in your hand can you cast both to draw any cards, or is does one with nothing always make you discard the other before you draw the cards? Ie can you discard your hand, in response draw some cards. So in effect discard to 0, then draw back up?

    one with nothing + dream salvage

    I don't see how this could work. Possible sequence:
    1. Your main phase begins.
    2. You get priority and cast Dream Salvage. You choose an opponent as the target and pay the cost by spending either U or B obtained in an unspecified way.
    3. You get priority and cast One with Nothing. You pay the cost by spending B obtained in an unspecified way.
    4. You get priority and pass.
    5. Opponent gets priority and passes.
    6. The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 3) resolves. You discard your hand. For the sake of definiteness, I'll say you had 3 cards left at this point. (Maybe they were already in your hand at the start of the main phase. Maybe you actually responded to One with Nothing with something to draw a card or two.)
    7. You get priority and pass.
    8. Opponent gets priority and passes.
    9. The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 2) resolves. The targeted opponent has not discarded anything this turn (that I can see), so you draw nothing.
    10. You get priority and ....

    Same with shadow of the grave

    one with nothing + shadow of the grave

    I'm not sure what this combo is supposed to do, either.
    1. Your main phase begins.
    2. You get priority and cast Shadow of the Grave. You pay the cost of 1B by spending mana obtained in an unspecified way.
    3. You get priority and cast One with Nothing. You pay the cost by spending B obtained in an unspecified way.
    4. You get priority and pass.
    5. Opponent gets priority and passes.
    6. The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 3) resolves. You discard your hand. For the sake of definiteness, I'll say you had 3 cards left at this point. (Maybe they were already in your hand at the start of the main phase. Maybe you actually responded to One with Nothing with something to draw a card or two.)
    7. You get priority and pass.
    8. Opponent gets priority and passes.
    9. The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 2) resolves. The specific 3 cards you discarded in step 6 are returned from your graveyard back to your hand.
    10. You get priority and ....
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on using land as a sacrifice
    [c]Ambush Commander[/c] -> Ambush Commander
    [c]Torment of Hailfire[/c] -> Torment of Hailfire

    ... unless he sacrifices a nonland permanent. Can he sacrifice the lands ...?

    No.
    608.2h If an effect refers to certain characteristics, it checks only for the value of the specified characteristics, regardless of any related ones an object may also have.
    Example: An effect that reads “Destroy all black creatures” destroys a white-and-black creature, but one that reads “Destroy all nonblack creatures” doesn’t.

    Torment of Hailfire's "sacrifices a nonland permanent" option checks for "permanent" (which needs to be yes) and "land" (which needs to be no). It does not check "creature" or any other type.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Protean Thaumaturge + Reprobation
    Quote from Ebonezra »
    If a creature is enchanted by a replacement effect like Reprobation, will Protean Thaumaturge copy the replaced effects if chosen to copy the affected creature?
    It copies the printed card as always. For example, if the enchanted creature is a Putrid Goblin, it will still copy a 2/2 Zombie Goblin with Persist. Reprobation doesn't change this.
    706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by “as . . . enters the battlefield” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.

    Quote from Ebonezra »
    Is the rule different for something like Metamorphic Alteration which completely changes the enchanted creature.
    Yes, because that is a copy effect.
    706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by “as . . . enters the battlefield” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Rules Change Trample - Part 2 - Your not crazy
    Yes, it was changed as part of Urza's Saga in 1998.

    http://web.archive.org/web/19991008110320/https://www.wizards.com/magic/expert/urzas_saga/uz_rules.asp

    (The direct link will probably work once Wizards finishes their server maintenance.)
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Test of Faith and Guardian/Guildpact
    Quote from CatParty »
    Let's say Guardian of the Guildpact is being blocked by a green creature with 3 power; the damage will be prevented by Guardian's protection. So what happens if I cast Test of Faith before damage is declared - does the ToF prevent the damage and add the counters before Guardian's own protection prevents the damage? Or does the green creature not actually deal damage to the Guardian due to its protection?

    Test of Faith can't target Guardian of the Guildpact, because Test of Faith is monocolored (white). For that matter, Guardian of the Guildpact can't be blocked by a monocolored creature.
    702.16b A permanent or player with protection can’t be targeted by spells with the stated quality and can’t be targeted by abilities from a source with the stated quality.
    702.16f Attacking creatures with protection can’t be blocked by creatures that have the stated quality.

    Let's replace the Guardian of the Guildpact with Treetop Sentinel and have it blocking the green creature instead.
    Then that's up to the Treetop Sentinel's controller.
    616. Interaction of Replacement and/or Prevention Effects
    616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).
    616.1a If any of the replacement and/or prevention effects are self-replacement effects (see rule 614.15), one of them must be chosen. If not, proceed to rule 616.1b.
    616.1b If any of the replacement and/or prevention effects would modify under whose control an object would enter the battlefield, one of them must be chosen. If not, proceed to rule 616.1c.
    616.1c If any of the replacement and/or prevention effects would cause an object to become a copy of another object as it enters the battlefield, one of them must be chosen. If not, proceed to rule 616.1d.
    616.1d Any of the applicable replacement and/or prevention effects may be chosen.
    616.1e Once the chosen effect has been applied, this process is repeated (taking into account only replacement or prevention effects that would now be applicable) until there are no more left to apply.
    616.1f While following the steps in 616.1a–d, one replacement or prevention effect may apply to an event, and another may apply to an event contained within the first event. In this case, the second effect can’t be chosen until after the first effect has been chosen.

    If the controller choose to apply the Test of Faith prevention, the 3 damage from the attacking creature doesn't happen, and the Treetop Sentinel gets 3 +1/+1 counters. The protection is then irrelevant.
    If the controller choose to apply the protection effect, that damage doesn't happen. Since there is no damage, the Test of Faith is irrelevant at this time.
    Quote from CatParty »
    I guess I just don't know the fine print of protection, I know it prevents damage, but is the damage "dealt"?

    The damage that was prevented will not be dealt.
    615.1a Effects that use the word “prevent” are prevention effects. Prevention effects use “prevent” to indicate what damage will not be dealt.
    615.6. If damage that would be dealt is prevented, it never happens. A modified event may occur instead, which may in turn trigger abilities. Note that the modified event may contain instructions that can’t be carried out, in which case the impossible instruction is simply ignored.
    702.16e Any damage that would be dealt by sources that have the stated quality to a permanent or player with protection is prevented.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Another regeneration question
    Quote from ox4 »
    When i regenerate a creature and it gets removed from combat, does it still do its damage during combat, or its removed before damage is assigned?

    That depends: In the absence of that regeneration, when would it have been destroyed? The removal from combat is part of what replaces that event. If it would be destroyed prior to dealing combat damage (e.g., due to Lightning Bolt), it still doesn't get a chance to deal combat damage. If it would be destroyed as a result of combat damage received, it has already dealt its own combat damage by the time regeneration matters.
    701.15. Regenerate
    701.15a If the effect of a resolving spell or ability regenerates a permanent, it creates a replacement effect that protects the permanent the next time it would be destroyed this turn. In this case, “Regenerate [permanent]” means “The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn, instead remove all damage marked on it and tap it. If it’s an attacking or blocking creature, remove it from combat.”

    Quote from ox4 »
    For example:
    I attack with a cudgel troll, my daughter block with a serra angel (or some other 4/4 creature) both creatures die, except that i regenerate the troll.
    So it taps ( if it weren't already tapped from attacking), the 4 damage the angel delt to it is removed, and the troll is removed from combat.
    Does the angel still die?

    Thanks for your help...

    1. Your combat phase begins. Beginning of combat step begins.
    2. You get priority and pass.
    3. Your daughter gets priority and passes.
    4. Beginning of combat step ends.
    5. Declare attackers step begins. You declare Cudgel Troll as an attacker and tap it.
    6. You get priority and pass.
    7. Your daughter gets priority and passes.
    8. Declare attackers step ends.
    9. Declare blockers step begins. Your daughter declares Serra Angel as a blocker for Cudgel Troll
    10. You get priority and activate the "G: Regenerate Cudgel Troll." ability of Cudgel Troll. You pay the cost using G obtained in an unspecified way.
    11. You get priority and pass.
    12. Your daughter gets priority and passes.
    13. The top object on the stack (the ability activated in step 10) resolves. "The next time Cudgel Troll would be destroyed this turn, instead remove all damage marked on it and tap it. If it’s an attacking or blocking creature, remove it from combat." This won't happen until step 19.
    14. You get priority and pass.
    15. Your daughter gets priority and passes.
    16. Declare blockers step end.
    17. Combat damage step begins. Cudgel Troll assigns 4 damage to Serra Angel. Serra Angel assigns 4 damage to Cudgel Troll.
    18. Cudgel Troll deals 4 damage to Serra Angel. Serra Angel deals 4 damage to Cudgel Troll.
    19. You would get priority, but there are state-based actions to perform. Cudgel Troll has lethal damage and is destroyed all damage is removed from it and it's removed from combat. Serra Angel has lethal damage and is destroyed.
    20. You get priority and ....
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on What it Means to 'Mutate'
    Quote from Kamonohashi »
    Mysterious Egg and Zagoth Mamba both say, "Whenever this creature mutates..." but neither of them have the mutate keyword with a mutate cost written on them. Perhaps these are cards that you can mutate ONTO using another card that does have the mutate keyword and a mutate cost,

    The condition for being the target of a mutating creature spell is "non-Human creature with the same owner as this spell". Either of those can easily qualify for that.
    702.139. Mutate
    702.139a Mutate appears on some creature cards. It represents a static ability that functions while the spell with mutate is on the stack. “Mutate [cost]” means “You may pay [cost] rather than pay this spell’s mana cost. If you do, it becomes a mutating creature spell and targets a non-Human creature with the same owner as this spell.” Casting a spell using its mutate ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs (see 601.2b and 601.2f–h).


    Quote from Kamonohashi »
    and when you do that their ability becomes activated [sic]. Is that what this means?

    Close. That ability is then triggered.
    702.139c As a mutating creature spell resolves, if its target is legal, it doesn’t enter the battlefield. Rather, it merges with the target creature and becomes one object represented by more than one card or token (see rule 721, “Merging with Permanents”). The spell’s controller chooses whether the spell is put on top of the creature or on the bottom. The resulting permanent is a mutated permanent.
    702.139d An ability that triggers whenever a creature mutates triggers when a spell merges with a creature as a result of a resolving mutating creature spell.
    702.139e A mutated permanent has all abilities of each card and token that represents it. Its other characteristics are derived from the topmost card or token.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Cabal Therapist
    Quote from Unitzero01 »
    Ok i understand it will only trigger at the beginning of the pre combat main phase but it can trigger multiple times

    No.
    603.2c An ability triggers only once each time its trigger event occurs. However, it can trigger repeatedly if one event contains multiple occurrences.
    Example: A permanent has an ability whose trigger condition reads, “Whenever a land is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . .” If someone casts a spell that destroys all lands, the ability will trigger once for each land put into the graveyard during the spell’s resolution.

    If you want "At the beginning of your precombat main phase" to trigger a second time, you need to wait until you begin another precombat main phase, i.e., your next turn.
    Quote from Unitzero01 »
    meaning I can sac multiple creatures and when the time comes it should trigger for each sacrificed creature

    What should trigger for each sacrificed creature? I see no reference to anything triggering off sacrificed creatures. Edit: I overlooked the reflexive triggered ability, but you still can't sacrifice multiple creatures from the "sacrifice a creature" instruction.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Nicol Bolas the Ravager activated ability
    Quote from NightWatch »
    That's what I assumed, but would you happen to have a specific reference for that ruling, as I have multiple people in my playgroup who seem to think otherwise?

    Ask them which of the exceptions listed here they think applies:
    113.6. Abilities of an instant or sorcery spell usually function only while that object is on the stack. Abilities of all other objects usually function only while that object is on the battlefield. The exceptions are as follows:
    113.6a Characteristic-defining abilities function everywhere, even outside the game. (See rule 604.3.)
    113.6b An ability that states which zones it functions in functions only from those zones.
    113.6c An object’s ability that allows a player to pay an alternative cost rather than its mana cost or otherwise modifies what that particular object costs to cast functions on the stack.
    113.6d An object’s ability that restricts or modifies how that particular object can be played or cast functions in any zone from which it could be played or cast and also on the stack. An object’s ability that grants it another ability that restricts or modifies how that particular object can be played or cast functions only on the stack.
    113.6e An object’s ability that restricts or modifies what zones that particular object can be played or cast from functions everywhere, even outside the game.
    113.6f An object’s ability that states it can’t be countered functions on the stack.
    113.6g An object’s ability that modifies how that particular object enters the battlefield functions as that object is entering the battlefield. See rule 614.12.
    113.6h An object’s ability that states counters can’t be put on that object functions as that object is entering the battlefield in addition to functioning while that object is on the battlefield.
    113.6i An object’s activated ability that has a cost that can’t be paid while the object is on the battlefield functions from any zone in which its cost can be paid.
    113.6j A trigger condition that can’t trigger from the battlefield functions in all zones it can trigger from. Other trigger conditions of the same triggered ability may function in different zones.
    Example: Absolver Thrull has the ability “When Absolver Thrull enters the battlefield or the creature it haunts dies, destroy target enchantment.” The first trigger condition functions from the battlefield and the second trigger condition functions from the exile zone. (See rule 702.54, “Haunt.”)
    113.6k An ability whose cost or effect specifies that it moves the object it’s on out of a particular zone functions only in that zone, unless its trigger condition or a previous part of its cost or effect specifies that the object is put into that zone or, if the object is an Aura, that the object it enchants leaves the battlefield. The same is true if the effect of that ability creates a delayed triggered ability whose effect moves the object out of a particular zone.
    Example: Reassembling Skeleton says “{1}{B}: Return Reassembling Skeleton from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.” A player may activate this ability only if Reassembling Skeleton is in their graveyard.
    113.6m An ability that modifies the rules for deck construction functions before the game begins. Such an ability modifies not just the Comprehensive Rules, but also the Magic: The Gathering Tournament Rules and any other documents that set the deck construction rules for a specific format. However, such an ability can’t affect the format legality of a card, including whether it’s banned or restricted. The current Magic: The Gathering Tournament Rules can be found at WPN.Wizards.com/en/resources/rules-documents.
    113.6n Abilities of emblems, plane cards, vanguard cards, scheme cards, and conspiracy cards function in the command zone. See rule 114, “Emblems”; rule 901, “Planechase”; rule 902, “Vanguard”; rule 904, “Archenemy”; and rule 905, “Conspiracy Draft.”
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Gain control of a card that championed?
    Quote from Nalij »
    My opponent played a Nova Chaser, championing out a Flamekin Harbinger. Now I want to steal his Nova Chaser by playing Agent of Treachery. When the Nova Chaser changes sides do i have to sacrifice it because I can't champion an elemental, and does his Flamekin Harbinger come back into play? Or does the Flamekin Harbinger still count as the champion even though it changed sides, meaning i can still play the Nova Chaser? Thanks for the help!

    You don't "play" the Nova Chaser, you just move it to your side of the battlefield as the Agent of Treachery's triggered ability resolves. The Nova Chaser doesn't enter the battlefield (or otherwise change zones) at that time, so the champion ability doesn't trigger.
    400.1. A zone is a place where objects can be during a game. There are normally seven zones: library, hand, battlefield, graveyard, stack, exile, and command. Some older cards also use the ante zone. Each player has their own library, hand, and graveyard. The other zones are shared by all players.

    702.71. Champion
    702.71a Champion represents two triggered abilities. “Champion an [object]” means “When this permanent enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you exile another [object] you control” and “When this permanent leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner’s control.”

    Enters the Battlefield
    A nontoken permanent “enters the battlefield” when it’s moved onto the battlefield from another zone. A token “enters the battlefield” when it’s created. See rules 403.3, 603.6a, 603.6d, and 614.12.

    If the Nova Chaser leaves the battlefield while under your control, the Elemental it championed will still return under its owner's control.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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