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Magic Market Index for April 19, 2019
  • posted a message on Banned card etiquette
    A long time ago, a friend of mine played Trade Secrets in a couple of games in his deck. Not sure if it was banned back then, but even though it resulted in some really ridiculous stuff, we all had fun with it. I'm actually kind of sad it's banned, even if it's ridiculous. As far as etiquette goes, it was never a problem for us.

    As far as cards I've played myself that have been banned:
    Prophet of Kruphix - understandably, this thing warped my entire meta until it was banned, everyone used it in their UG decks and it was always oppressively strong.
    Sylvan Primordial - I don't think this card is that bad, honestly. It never warped my metagame. Had to cut it from a deck of mine when it was banned a long time ago, but it's no big loss.

    I also think Primeval Titan is fine.

    Tolarian Academy could also be fine if they remade it to say something like 'Add U for each artifact creature you control'. Still able to do strong stuff and you could get it to make you a big pile of mana under the right conditions like combining it with Smothering Tithe or Myr Battlesphere just like Serra's Sanctum or Gaea's Cradle can do similar things with similar cards. I figure a redone card like that could be released no problem if alongside a couple new cheap instant-speed land destruction spells, something that says 'Exile target nonbasic land or artifact, then exile this card' for only W.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Cards you think would suck in EDH
    I really like seeing new commanders pop up that suddenly make a bunch of otherwise 'bad-for-edh' cards suddenly good because of some unusual effect. Keeps me on my toes trying to anticipate what weird but bad card might have a home in a future deck some day. I've bought numerous mediocre or 'bad' single cards for this reason, anticipating a day when some commander will turn that card into an essential powerhouse piece in combination with it.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Favorite Legend/Secret Commander in 99
    Venser, Shaper Savant - Great for lots of blue decks. Not only can it bounce any permanent of yours or an opponent's, it can also stop spells even if they say 'uncounterable'.
    Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma - Good for any green deck running big creatures.
    Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - Good in many decks that contain red and etb creatures.
    Braids, Conjurer Adept - Show and Tell on a stick. I think it can fit in well in most chaos or theft-focused decks.

    Others that are more niche that I use in the 99 of my decks that may not have places in most other decks:
    Surrak Dragonclaw - Decent sized body, makes my creatures uncounterable and serves as one of several trample enablers for my Maelstrom Wanderer deck.
    Seizan, Perverter of Truth - Helps out my Nekusar deck.
    Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind - Along with Curiosity and Psychosis Crawler, it is an alternate win-condition of sorts. I can also combine it with Notion Thief if I don't want to kill my opponents with their own cards, though doing so is very situational and I'd only do it if I'm not hurting myself with my own Spiteful Visions.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Crazy Plays in EDH.
    Last night I won 2 out of 2 games with Maelstrom Wanderer.

    First game was 3 person free for all, though more people were present, 3 of us arrived late while 4 were already playing a game when we arrived. Figured we'd have a quick game while we wait for them to finish theirs. Game was fairly typical and normal. Once I had the mana for it, I used Wanderer and cascaded into value creatures, utilized double damage from a Dictate of the Twin Gods I had played earlier, and had added benefit from copying an opponent's Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite twice (on different occaisions during the game) with two different clone cards. Game was settled decisively, nothing broken happened, just value.

    ~~~

    Second game was 7-person free for all. (Yes, my group is a bit nuts and we've even done it with 8 players before.)
    As the only two decks with me were Wanderer, or Zedruu, I picked Wanderer because with a whopping 7 players, my Zedruu deck would have ensured we'd still be playing the same game well into the early morning, and Wanderer could end things if the game went on too long otherwise.

    Played for a bit, cascaded several times over and became a huge threat on the board with about a dozen creatures in play, but too risky to swing anything at anyone because there were too many other players and I didn't have my damage doubling cards, and no one has done anything to me so I've got no payback to make yet. So instead I waited, and the board was wiped to no one's surprise. Then the game comes around a couple rotations of turns and the mono-green eldrazi player has started exiling 20 cards apiece from people's decks with Ulamog and copies of it via Helm of the Host. He rightly targets me because he knows what's in my deck and nicks one of 3 pieces that enable the dreaded Kiki-Jiki combo (Pestermite) that I've done many times, but instead it kinda backfires when it gets to my turn.

    Thanks to a group huge player, I'm drawing two cards a turn, and from earlier, I have scroll rack in play. I draw into Time Warp. Cool, that helps. I immediately use it, play Dictate of the Twin Gods (not that it matters later), and go to next turn. On that turn, I by sheer luck draw into the only other extra turn spell in the deck, Temporal Mastery. I cast it for it's miracle cost, cast my commander, steal the Eldrazi-player's Eldrazi Conscription enchanted Asuza with a cascaded Zealous Conscripts and nearly kill him then and there in retribution for exiling 20 cards of my deck. At this point I'm thinking I won't be able to pull off a Kiki-Jiki combo since I already played Zealous Conscripts, lost Pestermite to exile, and have no tutors, but it's still remotely possible. Even if I did, I figure everyone's seen this deck play out a dozen times, they should all be well-prepared to stop me and it'll be no big deal if I try to do it (it was also late so everyone was about ready to go home at this point anyway).

    I go to my next turn. Draw a couple cards of no consequence, and decide I'll dig deeper for anything better using the Scroll Rack I've had in play all game. As a third stroke of luck, I pull Tooth and Nail out. I cast it entwined and go for Kiki-Jiki plus Clever Impersonator for good measure. Somehow, no one with open mana actually has any disruption available to stop me out of the other 6 people playing, and I make infinite Zealous Conscripts unimpeded to kill everyone. One of my opponents even had a Crystal Shard in play that would've stopped the combo for only 1 mana, but he had tapped out on his turn.

    Seriously, what kind of luck is it that I must have to draw into both of my extra turn spells and THEN on top of that get Tooth and Nail at the last second, the key combo pieces survive a hefty library exile hit, and somehow not be stopped by 6 other players?

    I think it's time to put this deck away for awhile, either it's too strong for my group or I'm just way too lucky.

    I just put Nekusar together today (rebuilt differently after having previously played and taken it apart years ago), so I'm hoping that will prove more fair, will play that for awhile and see if I win a bit less often.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on If you do X, I'm going to scoop
    Quote from Turn30Win »
    I find Auction, Worldpurge and Aurora to be much the same ilk as Worldfire and other reset cards on the banlist. Sure, you can argue the technicalities of it not being a 100% game reset, but their function if far too often something to that effect. If you have the mana to spend on dragging the game out that would otherwise be over, you have mana to spend on ending it yourself instead.


    Well, Worldpurge lets people keep select cards from their previous hand and field, it doesn't change life totals, it doesn't let me win with leftover mana for some other spell, and it doesn't touch graveyards. It's quite different from Worldfire. Seems pretty fair. Goblin game was fun to resolve and I ended up hurting myself the most of everyone when I first did it.

    I really want to see what a resolved Thieves' Auction ends up like, at least once. In my mind there is no way to be sure it would make the game go on longer besides resolving it - any combination of things could happen as a result. I don't see myself as trying to drag out the game, but rather just make its outcome unique and interesting. What I hope is that it inadvertently ends up helping someone with an underdog deck win the game, I'm not even worried about winning myself with this Zedruu build because that's not my primary objective, even though it has specific cards to help it do so.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on If you do X, I'm going to scoop
    Recently I played Thieves' Auction from my Zedruu chaos deck and everyone scooped. None of the smaller chaotic effects before then bothered anyone and I was doing nothing oppressive or limiting - in fact, I was only being nice to everyone, and not in a 'make the game stupid with group hug' sort of way. The whole point of that deck was to see what the game would turn out like *after* such mass chaos effects happen. The game hadn't even gone on that long and there was no reason that it necessarily would've been to my advantage in the long run. But no, no one wants to even walk through resolving that card, when it could have led to a very interesting game state. Rather bummed out about that.

    I'm hoping eventually people in my playgroup will warm up to the idea of post-chaos games, because all I want is for every game to play out differently. It's probably a rather unusual group of players, as during the same game, I also played Worldpurge and Goblin Game and everyone loved those. It wasn't at all that my plays were messing up their plans with their decks, I guess it was the effort required to go through resolving TA. And yet, we have historically walked through many a 'blue turn' in other games without scooping, so I don't see why TA is anything different if chaos doesn't bother them inherently either.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on The Underrepresented Wedges/Shards
    Speculation/ideas thread.

    So, as it currently stands, the wedges have significantly less options as commanders than the shards.

    These are:

    GUR - 'Temur' with 14 possible commanders.
    BGU - 'Sultai' with 14 possible commanders, 15 if you count Leovold, Emissary of Trest which is banned, though I'm unfamiliar with why this happened.
    URW - 'Jeskai' with 13 possible commanders. !!!
    BGW - 'Abzan' with 14 possible commanders.
    RWB - 'Mardu' with 17 possible commanders.

    Of lesser note are these 2 shards:

    RGW - 'Naya' with 18 possible commanders, 19 if you count allowances of Tamanoa which has been rarely built even though it is not legendary.
    GWU - 'Bant' also is slightly behind in total options compared to the other 4 'full' tri-color selections of 21+ with only 19 possibilities.

    Of each of those combinations, 8 of each are also partner combinations, which as far as I can tell haven't been very popular compared to most other single commander decks. Grixis is the most saturated in options as it leads all the tri-color decks in options available at a total of 23.

    So, of what I'd like to speculate on, these questions are the following:

    1. When do you think we'll see more legends drop for the first 5 mentioned combinations of colors.
    2. What kinds of legends (in terms of function, flavor/theme, etc) would you like or expect to see happen in these colors?
    3. How do you think they will effect the format overall when they are released?

    Personally, I'm hoping for a commander product in the near future that adds at least 3 of each, and wouldn't be surprised to see some tribal support with 2/3rds of them.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Zedruu the Greatest Of All Time
    Quote from tstorm823 »


    To pass on the wisdom of Zedruu players passed on to me, play Pentad Prism. It gets Zedruu out a turn early and donates easy to draw more cards, there's very little reason not to play it.


    Thanks, I never would've thought of that because I didn't know about that card.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Zedruu the Greatest Of All Time
    I recently built my own that is all-in focused on chaos, link here:

    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/zedruus-exports-incorporated/

    List of notable cards mine runs that others may wish to consider:

    Emergency Powers
    Worldpurge
    Warp World
    Scrambleverse
    Thieves' Auction
    Dimensional Breach (Good with Paradox Haze in particular)
    Show and Tell
    Braids, Conjurer Adept
    Shared Fate
    Knowledge Pool
    Hive Mind
    Confusion in the Ranks
    Goblin Game
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Most fun commander?
    Funny thing, I just built a Zedruu deck too, and it was mentioned before in this thread.

    Chaos oriented, and just as liable to kill me as anyone else. It's mainly meant for the Secret Alliance/Kingdoms EDH variant gametypes. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/zedruus-exports-incorporated/

    My idea is that, since this is a chaos deck, it can really swing games into unique places. Since I'm not at all concerned with disrupting people's plays, everyone still gets to do whatever they want, and by virtue of the chaos, if some player is doing poorly, I might end up helping them due to mixing things up. I'm also trying to insulate myself from attack with at least half a dozen pillowfort pieces, and while there's a good chance I could accidentally swap myself into something like transcendence and kill myself on the spot, I could just as well acquire an assorted mix of my opponent's permanents and win with those in some interesting way too.

    Warp World and all its friends included. It takes a very different approach to 'control' than most decks, in that the 'control' if you consider there to be any at all in it, is the chaos itself. I run barely any removal, and the removal it does have is only the kind that does not detract whatsoever from the massive chaos cards I plan to cast later. It's even running cards like Show and Tell and others to enable opponents to put more things into play that I can then divvy about randomly with those big chaos bombs.

    My mentality in EDH these days is 'I don't want consistency, I want interesting and memorable games to write home about'.

    Might be pretty fun, thus suggesting it here.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Print this Wizards (so I can play it in EDH)
    Something I thought up about a week ago because I wanted a sort of Grixis version of Mimeoplasm but with more options. The lore behind this version of him is that Lazav has fallen under the mind control of Nicol Bolas, thus the added red. Sort of a combination of Body Double, Clever Impersonator, and Sakashima, the Impostor.

    Lazav, the Possessed

    3UBR
    Legendary Creature - Shapeshifter
    You may have Lazav, the Possessed enter the battlefield as a copy of any permanent card in a graveyard if it has not entered as a copy of that card before during this game, except its name is still Lazav, the Possessed, it is still Legendary, and it gains:
    1UBR: Return Lazav, the Possessed to its owner's hand.
    0/0
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Storm deck ideas?
    It's long since been something I've been interested in building a deck around. Particularly, I'm interested in building a deck with some combination or inclusion of some of the following cards (about 4 of them in one deck, probably):

    Bitter Ordeal
    Brain Freeze
    Crow Storm and Empty the Warrens possibly in conjunction with cards like Purphoros, Impact Tremors, or Mass Hysteria/other haste enablers within a deck that also makes use of those in other ways.
    Grapeshot
    Mind's Desire
    Tendrils of Agony

    Considering these cards, it seems the likely deck I'd want to choose to do them in would be either something in Grixis or Esper colors, the latter seeming quite possible due to Sharuum the Hegemon, which unfortunately can't slot red cards and I'm unsure how to apply specifically for storm as opposed to gravestorm. (As I understand it something being put into play by an affect does not count as 'casting' a card for storm count) In any case, I'm interested in whatever deck might be able to reliably create an infinite number of storm triggers and protect the combo quite well. On the Grixis side, Thraximundar and Marchesa, the Black Rose also come to mind as possibly able to enable infinite triggers in some useful manner towards this, but I'm not sure how to approach those with this storm theme either.

    In addition, it would be preferable if whatever deck I choose is built not to necessarily rely on accomplishing a storm combo and can use it at a late point in the game when appropriate, as I like long EDH games as opposed to trying to race the people I play it with. I want to aim for something that can survive for a good long while in a fair game of multiplayer politics with room for a control suite while still functioning well with ample resource development and card supply without losing out on its functional portion.

    The obvious combination of these colors to do all of this under might also be Breya, Etherium Shaper but I'm not sure how to build a deck around that doing this, and 4+ color decks make me uneasy to begin with due to how awkward their mana bases appear to me, as well as possibly to restricting in options because of paradoxically having access to so many colors.

    Any ideas or suggestions?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Looking for a versatile, resilient deck that wins without combat
    Yeah, after coming up with a new WIP build of Nekusar again, I don't like it anyway. Sure, it's offensively strong, filled with synergies, but not much else going for it. Would expectedly lose easily to a tiny bit of pressure. In order for it to have a chance at winning, it needs to have so many ways to damage people it can't be shut down, but then that leaves no room for control or ways to protect itself, and trying to do any sort of control when I'm giving everyone tempo through cards is kind of backwards. Bleh. I might just have to wait to see what Commander 2019 brings and hope something really catches my eye. I can't seem to find that political/offensive/defensive balance I want.

    As for wheeling @Zordrath, the plan, ideally, would be to do some upkeep/end step damage with regular card draw, and save the wheels for the turn where I kill everyone at once, but not before.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Looking for a versatile, resilient deck that wins without combat
    Thank you for all the suggestions. At this time, I am thinking I might actually rebuild Nekusar. For one, because it would be really funny to play a game with two Nekusar decks, if my friend obliges to that silliness at least once, and because I can feasibly see building it significantly different (and better in a strategic sense) from what I did the first time, now having much more experience with the game than I did when I first built it. Not only that but it would create a nice environment for the newer players in my group because the card advantage could actually give them a better chance to beat the rest of us experienced players, so it's a socially positive deck to play. The risk is over-enabling the other experienced players, but I think I know what tools to pack to keep them under control.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Going Infinite and "I Win" Combos Outside cEDH.


    Man replies like these make me think that EDH is the most miserable format ever. A constant stalemate that last 3-4 hours, everyone want it to stop, but no one can stop it unless there is a combo.
    Thank god my games are really different!


    My playgroup is fine and I would certainly not call our games miserable, but it is a bit mixed up. We've got one player besides myself who consistently makes very tuned, threatening (but not cEDH) decks, and the others are usually suboptimal but seem to do just fine. Though, unfortunately, the newest players rarely have any luck, basically having to rely on the experienced players leaving them alone by focusing on the real threats and getting lucky when we all eliminate each other and accidentally hand the game to them. Regardless, it's always interesting, and our games usually last 30 minutes - 2 hours. I actually like the long games, as long as they're not stalemates.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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