MTG Salvation

Quote from Tdog09876 »

This list went 9-0 day 1 of vegas. I have never seen a list like this before. What does everyone think?

http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD31303S/

There's definitely some cool stuff going on in this list, but it also seems kinda all over the place. Things I like: Abzan Charm can reset persisted Kitchen Finks to grind longer, gain more life. Glissa in the SB can rebuy Engineered Explosives, Pithing Needle and Whip of Erebos, which is some nice synergy.

Things I don't like: Obzedat in the main. I just don't think you're ever going to realistically cast him in a normal game of modern. CMC is too high, but more importantly the double white mana cost is too steep (maybe possible with this 24-land list, but I have doubts). Yes, you could discard him to Liliana and then buy him back with the Whip and he'll stick around because you can stack EoT triggers. Seems a little niche to run in the main, though.

Only 2 thoughtseize and 3 lingering souls main just seems wrong. I don't think Collective Brutality makes up for going down to five 1-mana discard.

3 Siege Rhino is 1 too many.

Funky, obviously moderately successful in this tournament, but ultimately not something I'm interested in.

Edit: Clarity

Unfortunately, no. Setting your life total, whether up or down, is seen by the game's rules as life gain or loss.

Skullcrack will stop the lifegain and is a huge blowout because your lands will still not untap during your next turn.

Quote from DeFish »

I'm disappointed by the lack of more Abzan in the top 32, but I do like where the 10th place list's head was at. I'm still not sure if the Traverse lists aren't putting up results because people aren't playing it. or because it's genuinely weaker than the normal Noble version. I do like the inclusion of the 4th Thoughtseize in the SB instead of something like Damnation, since it's still good against the bigger Eldrazi decks while also being a proactive play. I know there was some discussion about Damnation on the last page or so, and I'll echo the opinion that it's just not where you want to be against Eldrazi. In my experience, when I was running it against them it always seemed to get Thought-Knotted before I could cast it or I just didn't want to because I'd been able to get out ahead on board. I think that 2 Flaying Tendrils is 100% correct right now (and 3 isn't unreasonable), regardless of if you're on the Noble or Traverse list.

I think there were 3,500 players in the modern GP? In a field that big, you can have a great record and still not come anywhere near the top 32. Lukas Blohon went 12-3 playing Abzan Traverse, for example, and didn't get close to the top tables just because of the numbers. I think Abzan is still very good. For GPs this big, they really need to give us a list of at least top 64 or every player with 36+ points (though it would be a ton of decklists!).

As for whether to Traverse or not, I really can't decide either. There are of course benefits and drawbacks to booth. For right now I'm still on Traverse mainly just because I like the way it plays more. It feels like I have more relevant decisions to make throughout the game.

Here's the list I'm bringing to my locals tomorrow:



The fourth Lingering Souls (or singleton Collective Brutality) in the main could come out for a 4th Path to Exile if I want to hedge more against Grixis Shadow. Not sure. It's possible I could cut the Collective maindeck entirely and rely on 2 in the SB and the Finks to get the job done against burn. I would love any feedback from people on the list.

@Tdog09876: No on Mirran Crusader. We already have an OK-to-good match up against Death's Shadow variants, including Grixis. We're not a white based deck, and fetching aggressively to get double white to cast crusader (which will probably come down a turn too late to matter) is not where we want to be against a deck as punishing as DS.

If anything, this weekend's GP results make me want to play a SB closer to Devon Teague's SCG Charlotte top 32 list. The one of Creeping Corrosion and two Stony Silence, the double Kitchen finks, the Grafdiggers Cage + 2 Surgical looks like the perfect mix of answers to the decks we saw in the Top 32 of GP Vegas.

From Jadine Klomparen's SCG article today about timing and card advantage.

I think most of the mistakes I've made with Abzan Traverse since picking the deck up have been not cashing in Traverse the Ulvenwald for a basic when I should have. I always want to hold it, to get that creature, and find myself stumbling along on three lands for far too long, when a fourth would let me curve beautifully and cast all the spells I want to cast when I need to cast them. There's time value of lands too--the longer a land is on the battlefield the more mana you can get from it since it untaps every turn.

In general, I would recommend Traversing for a basic the first turn you would miss your land drop. It's one thing if you're flooded; another entirely if you decide you can function well enough on a sub-optimal number of lands and stubbornly hold onto it waiting for a delirium that comes too late. Just like a cantrip, the sooner you decide what this Traverse is going to be, the better off you are.

I cannot more strongly recommend following this advance. I think I've mentioned playing a low land count/traverse deck in Modern before making the switch to Abzan, and this was the hardest lesson to learn. So few lands in your deck makes mid game top decks much better, but at the risk of not making your early land drops on time. Traverse is great mitigation for this, but only if used correctly. I almost always look at the first traverse as a basic land that gets me closer to delirium, and the second as a tutor.

@Spsiegel1987: Hmm, that's really good to know. I had a assumed he was good against control decks, but had not really considered him against grindy GBx, Shadow and Midrange mirrors. I picked a couple up, but haven't really tried them out yet for that reason.

I'm also on a Traverse list right now, though, so non-creature and cmc 4+ cards are hard to justify. I'm going to find room for one in the SB to test, though.

P.S. I did a bunch of playtesting against Grixis Shadow last night with a typical 3/3 split of Fatal Push and Path to Exile, and I am really glad to have been running that split as opposed to Edel's recommended 4:2 split in favor of Push. I know he was metagaming more against Vizier Company decks, but the quick rise of Grixis makes me want to run a removal suite like yours with more Paths.

For those of you running Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in your sideboards: In what matches do you bring him in? Where do you find him most useful?

Pretty interesting article from Lucas Berthould on the DexArmy site about the uses of Thoughtseize. It's from the perspective of a Grixis Shadow mirror match, but there's a lot of information that's more widely applicable to any decision with discard spells.

There's no reason not to try it out at a few FNMs or Leagues (if you're online), but I wanted to give an honest reply. When it's good, it's great. And I could certainly see it cutting a few turns off a long, grindy win.

Quote from Nemesis1989 »

i'm thinking about a single sword of light and shadow mb,it makes the equiped creature bulletproof (path aand fatal push are the most used removals) and the lifegain and recursion can be game changing,what do you think about this?

Honestly I think the swords are way to slow for Modern, which is why they don't really see play anymore. Five mana (likely over two turns) and if they snap off a removal spell in response to the equip trigger you've just timewalked yourself. Add in the prevalence of KCommand in the format, and I think it's a card that is much more likely to rot in your hand than swing the game.

Basically, for that much mana I would much rather be adding threats to the board or removing or stripping away threats from my opponent--all things Abzan is already well positioned to do. And, finally, if they haven't found removal for your creature and you're freely attacking you are already winning.

Against Skred, how did you fetch under Blood Moon to snap off Abrupt Decay?

At the end of the article linked above, Jadine posted the decklist she would play moving forward, saying that she plans to bring that deck to SCGCHAR in two weeks. That list goes down to 19 lands.

My experience has been that 19 lands is appropriate in a low curve deck like this with 4 Traverse. The traverse package + Grim Flayer means you see a lot of cards per game, and I have not had a problem with mana screw in the games I have played with it so far.

Thanks for your response. I agree with you on the 3-1 LotV plan, but was looking for further reinforcement before deciding whether or not to pick up a second copy of Last Hope.

I have actually lived the dream of Traversing for a Ghost Quarter vs. Titanshift to blow up a Valakut and then strip the rest of them from the opponent's deck with Surgical Extraction. That's probably why I still have it in the deck. But it hasn't been stellar otherwise, I agree.

@DeFish: Do you plan to run both a maindeck Ghost Quarter and a maindeck Bojuka bog, then? Why not move GQ to the side and run Bojuka in the main in its place if that's your preference?

I'm also interested in if people think it's wiser to run 3 LotV 1 LtLH split that she runs, or Edel's 2-2 split.

So Jadine Klomparens just posted an article on SCG select about her experience playing Abzan Traverse to a 23rd place finish at the Open this weekend and changes she'd make. Pretty interesting stuff, including some big deviations from Willy's preferred build moving forward that I'm not sure I agree with. Good to think about, though.

EDIT: Meanwhile, on the premium side, there's a new vs. video between Ross Merriam and Brad Nelson with Ross on 4c Death's Shadow and Nelson on Edel's list from the MTGO testing.