I'll test some of those out, they could be interesting. Currently I have Boseiju, Who Shelters All and Vexing Shusher in the list for testing, because they're reusable, and with the Shusher I can help resolve other player's spells that I want to go through (like a counterspell on the Bant player's Tooth and Nail).
There are a lot more options but that is a nice little package of 5. You need both the Guide and 'Lark (with any outlet) to start the loop but with the tutors available in the colors you can get the pieces pretty quickly.
Either just burn the table infinitely sacrificing the two with Station or create crazy mana to cast Marath as much as you can/want (Ashnod's doesn't give colors so you will be limited). With the Phyrexian this means "infinite" Marath which means "infinite" tokens and counters.
You can even accomplish the same stuff with Doubling Season and the sacrifice outlets if you don't wasn't to run a Guide and 'Lark (not the burn).
I've run infinite combos in here before (the one with Altar and then another with Earthcraft and Squirrel Nest). I wasn't a huge fan. I do have a combo deck, so I'm not opposed to them, it just didn't seem to fit the deck to me.
Thank you though. ^.^ Assuming I can ever write far enough to add an alternative options section, I may include those and other similar ways to go infinite.
At the moment, I'm considering a replacement for Devout Invocation. I would like to keep a flyer in the spot, as flying is fairly relevent in my meta.
I'm thinking either Gisela, Blade of Goldnight for her pseudo pump effect, or Rith, the Awakener as another token generator. I have run Rith in the deck before, and took him out after having issues getting him to connect to an opponent. Aurelia, the Warleader could also be a consideration, but usually my board is full of low power tokens that won't make it to the second step of combat often enough.
It kind of depends on what you want to do and what your playgroup finds acceptable. With Oona, it is really hard to mill out the table in a multi-player game without going infinite somewhere in there.
However, combo isn't your only option with here. She can run as both mono blue and mono black, combo, non-combo mill, and tribal faerie.
I don't enjoy playing against mass land destruction. Having been the casulty of war before, it sucks. That said, it wouldn't take much change to my Marath deck to handle it, should it ever become popular in my meta.
But I'm probably going to gun for the guy playing land destruction first out of sheer annoyance, and I won't be alone. So in my play group at least, I don't see how it would solve the original problem. O.o
What are the decks you currently play and what are you losing to? You might be able to just tune them up some which could be easier on your wallet than buying a whole new deck
I second this. I wouldn't give up on your current deck until you've at least tried tuning them. You'll likely get some really good suggestions from the community here on ways to improve them.
I wasn't suggesting that you go for a token strategry. ^.^ Just noting that this isn't quite my expertise, even though I also run Marath.
To start with, have you considered simply running Mayel the Anima as your commander? It seems that she fits the theme that you're going for better than Marath would. Don't get me wrong, Marath is very good. But he is more of a support creature, rather than actively furthering your board state.
You have this tagged as competitive, and I don't know how competitively geared you want this to be, but competitive lists tend to want consistancy above all else. In our colors, that means some tutors and card draw, and lots of running large amounts of certain types of cards.
Ramp is probably our biggest strength is Naya. I personally prefer cards that put land directly onto the battlefield, rather than into my hand. The cards meantioned in the above post are my recommendations for that. Wood Elves is also fantastic, and is recurrable through Sun Titan. You already have Cultivate and Kodama's Reach, which are also good. I wouldn't nessesarily go out of my way to include all of these in addition to the ramp spells that you already have, but adding one or two more and maybe replacing some of the current ones could be beneficial.
Value in 60 card formats is not nessesarily the same as value in EDH. I love Huntmaster of the Fells but in a multiplayer format, he is very hard to flip, which causes him to lose that value. The same goes for Thragtusk. In a format where we will willingly give other people 3/3 creatures through removal spells, his replacement effect isn't as relevant. I would also include Pelakka Wurm in this. One of the Eldrazi could make a very nice replacement for him, however. Trostani, Selesnya's Voice is also a very good card, but without a token strategy, you aren't getting quite enough out of either of her abilities.
Some cheaper and more versatile options for cards you have listed: Spellbreaker Behemoth ---> Vexing Shusher Craterhoof Behemoth ---> Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
They both have the downside of requiring you to dump mana into them, but neither are as creature dependent as the two I named. Craterhoof pretty much demands that you have a very strong board state to use; Kamahl on the other hand, can make his own board state. He can also discourage board wipes from your opponents. They won't want to loose their lands. It can also be used with Elesh Norn, if you're particularly cutthroat (be careful, those two on the board together make you a large target). Vexing Shusher can make any spell uncounterable, not just creature spells.
Speaking of Elesh Norn, remember that if you want to recast Marath while she's out, you'll need to remove the last two counters to deal damage to himself.
Of the seven planeswalkers that you've listed, Garruk, Primal Hunter, Sarkhan Vol, and Domri Rade are probably the best for what you want to do. The others aren't very synergystic with your deck.
Other notable good stuff with Marath: Basilisk Collar either turns Marath into a machine gun or when combined with trample, makes one of your bigger creatures hit that much harder. Seedbornn Muse and Winding Canyons help fix the problem of tapping out to cast Marath later I the game, which will happen when you're the one killing your commander. Privileged Position is an extremely strong protection card in out colors. It forces your opponents to either use a board wipe when they may not want to, or use two removal spells to get to the permanent they actually want dead.
And lastly, 35 lands seems a bit low, even with ramp. I'd maybe think about adding one or two more in.
Definately don't make changes just because I suggested it, but these could be helpful.
All right. I went more of a token theme so I may not know too many relevant suggestions off of the top of my head, but I'll try to be of some help. ^.^
Even though we're still missing one of ours, the new Temples could be an alternative to the bounce lands. They still come in tapped, but they don't set you back quite as badly and the scry trigger can help to filter through some bad top decks.
My last suggestion is to maybe take out Mayael. It seems like she could too easily be a wasted six mana without a deck built around her ability.
Speaking as a fairly new player, I can be the fisrt to admit that leaning the ins and outs of card interactions sucks. It's confusing, and half the time when I do mess up, I generally don't get an explanation, just told that I'm wrong. It leads to me making similar mistakes in the future.
Explaining why it doesn't work after you make your point with rulings will likely also be helpful.
The curse is coming out because apparently, I'd already removed it for Spear without updating any of my lists with the change (whoops). I'm going to try using Skyshroud Claim in place of the tempting offer as a test, to see if I like it's results more.
You perform the actions on the card in the order they appear in the text. You first search for a land and put it into play, then your opponents have the opportunity to search or not, then you get additional searches for each opponent who searched, then everyone who searched shuffles their library.
I see it now. You'll have to forgive me... I've only been playing for about six months. >.< I figured it worked like Tempt with Immortality, where the targets are chosen after the spell resolves. I may thrown in Skyrshroud Claim, in that case. Assuming I can actually find one.
Devout Invocation, while I don't have any problem with what it does, just seems like win-more, and no-win if you're already behind. I mean if you can cast it for three, you probably have enough on the field anyways. I definitely like the Elemental and Zenith more than the Invocation. Nice build. Makes me want to put together a Marath.
My working theory with the tempting offer (assuming that I understand the ruling correctly) is that the first set of lands doesn't resolve until everyone has accepted/declined. Then, after everyone's lands come in, I search for the other half of the spell. It lets me grab things accordingly. If no one accepts, I can make the most out of the offer and grab Cradle. If multiple people accept, I can grab things like Temple of the False God or any of my duel lands and come out ahead. But that's only my theory, and I only just added it in with Gaea's Cradle this last week, so it hasn't been used as much as I would like.
Devout Invocation requires a bit more thought. In all honesty I've only drawn it twice since I built this deck a month ago, so I defiantly hasn't seen enough play for me to feel super comfortable meddling with it quite yet. When I have managed to draw into it however, it's preformed well. But I would like to play I a couple more times to decide how I feel about it in different situations. Thank you though, the feedback is very helpful.
I've run infinite combos in here before (the one with Altar and then another with Earthcraft and Squirrel Nest). I wasn't a huge fan. I do have a combo deck, so I'm not opposed to them, it just didn't seem to fit the deck to me.
Thank you though. ^.^ Assuming I can ever write far enough to add an alternative options section, I may include those and other similar ways to go infinite.
I'm thinking either Gisela, Blade of Goldnight for her pseudo pump effect, or Rith, the Awakener as another token generator. I have run Rith in the deck before, and took him out after having issues getting him to connect to an opponent. Aurelia, the Warleader could also be a consideration, but usually my board is full of low power tokens that won't make it to the second step of combat often enough.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
However, combo isn't your only option with here. She can run as both mono blue and mono black, combo, non-combo mill, and tribal faerie.
For good mill cards, Mind Grind, Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker, and Memory Erosion all work pretty well.
But I'm probably going to gun for the guy playing land destruction first out of sheer annoyance, and I won't be alone. So in my play group at least, I don't see how it would solve the original problem. O.o
Glad I could be of some help though!
I second this. I wouldn't give up on your current deck until you've at least tried tuning them. You'll likely get some really good suggestions from the community here on ways to improve them.
To start with, have you considered simply running Mayel the Anima as your commander? It seems that she fits the theme that you're going for better than Marath would. Don't get me wrong, Marath is very good. But he is more of a support creature, rather than actively furthering your board state.
You have this tagged as competitive, and I don't know how competitively geared you want this to be, but competitive lists tend to want consistancy above all else. In our colors, that means some tutors and card draw, and lots of running large amounts of certain types of cards.
Ramp is probably our biggest strength is Naya. I personally prefer cards that put land directly onto the battlefield, rather than into my hand. The cards meantioned in the above post are my recommendations for that. Wood Elves is also fantastic, and is recurrable through Sun Titan. You already have Cultivate and Kodama's Reach, which are also good. I wouldn't nessesarily go out of my way to include all of these in addition to the ramp spells that you already have, but adding one or two more and maybe replacing some of the current ones could be beneficial.
The biggest assets for card draw and tutors that I know of in our colors are Tooth and Nail, Green Sun's Zenith, Worldly Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Greater Good, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (he is also a large body himself, and very good with Greater Good if needed), and Survival of the Fittest. If you go the Survival route, I would also include Genesis, maybe Brawn and Anger (maybe in place of Fires of Yavimaya).
Value in 60 card formats is not nessesarily the same as value in EDH. I love Huntmaster of the Fells but in a multiplayer format, he is very hard to flip, which causes him to lose that value. The same goes for Thragtusk. In a format where we will willingly give other people 3/3 creatures through removal spells, his replacement effect isn't as relevant. I would also include Pelakka Wurm in this. One of the Eldrazi could make a very nice replacement for him, however. Trostani, Selesnya's Voice is also a very good card, but without a token strategy, you aren't getting quite enough out of either of her abilities.
Some cheaper and more versatile options for cards you have listed:
Spellbreaker Behemoth ---> Vexing Shusher
Craterhoof Behemoth ---> Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
They both have the downside of requiring you to dump mana into them, but neither are as creature dependent as the two I named. Craterhoof pretty much demands that you have a very strong board state to use; Kamahl on the other hand, can make his own board state. He can also discourage board wipes from your opponents. They won't want to loose their lands. It can also be used with Elesh Norn, if you're particularly cutthroat (be careful, those two on the board together make you a large target). Vexing Shusher can make any spell uncounterable, not just creature spells.
Speaking of Elesh Norn, remember that if you want to recast Marath while she's out, you'll need to remove the last two counters to deal damage to himself.
Of the seven planeswalkers that you've listed, Garruk, Primal Hunter, Sarkhan Vol, and Domri Rade are probably the best for what you want to do. The others aren't very synergystic with your deck.
Other notable good stuff with Marath: Basilisk Collar either turns Marath into a machine gun or when combined with trample, makes one of your bigger creatures hit that much harder. Seedbornn Muse and Winding Canyons help fix the problem of tapping out to cast Marath later I the game, which will happen when you're the one killing your commander. Privileged Position is an extremely strong protection card in out colors. It forces your opponents to either use a board wipe when they may not want to, or use two removal spells to get to the permanent they actually want dead.
And lastly, 35 lands seems a bit low, even with ramp. I'd maybe think about adding one or two more in.
Definately don't make changes just because I suggested it, but these could be helpful.
For removal spells, I would consider things like Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Return to Dust, Chaos Warp, Beast Within, and Comet Storm. The more types of cards you can hit (and especially exile), the better.
Aura Shards would be another big one. It turns Marath himself into instant speed artifact and enchantment removal.
More ramp will also help you get your fatties out earlier. I personally like Farseek, Oracle of Mul Daya, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Ranger's Path, and Krosan Verge, but there are tons of choices for these.
Even though we're still missing one of ours, the new Temples could be an alternative to the bounce lands. They still come in tapped, but they don't set you back quite as badly and the scry trigger can help to filter through some bad top decks.
My last suggestion is to maybe take out Mayael. It seems like she could too easily be a wasted six mana without a deck built around her ability.
This may help with formatting.
What exactly are you looking for in the deck? You seem to be pulled in quite a few directions. What kind of theme are you looking to Run with Marath?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=572766
Thanks
Speaking as a fairly new player, I can be the fisrt to admit that leaning the ins and outs of card interactions sucks. It's confusing, and half the time when I do mess up, I generally don't get an explanation, just told that I'm wrong. It leads to me making similar mistakes in the future.
Explaining why it doesn't work after you make your point with rulings will likely also be helpful.
Out
Cuse of Predation
Tempt with Discovery
In
Skyshroud Claim
Spear of Heliod
The curse is coming out because apparently, I'd already removed it for Spear without updating any of my lists with the change (whoops). I'm going to try using Skyshroud Claim in place of the tempting offer as a test, to see if I like it's results more.
I see it now. You'll have to forgive me... I've only been playing for about six months. >.< I figured it worked like Tempt with Immortality, where the targets are chosen after the spell resolves. I may thrown in Skyrshroud Claim, in that case. Assuming I can actually find one.
My working theory with the tempting offer (assuming that I understand the ruling correctly) is that the first set of lands doesn't resolve until everyone has accepted/declined. Then, after everyone's lands come in, I search for the other half of the spell. It lets me grab things accordingly. If no one accepts, I can make the most out of the offer and grab Cradle. If multiple people accept, I can grab things like Temple of the False God or any of my duel lands and come out ahead. But that's only my theory, and I only just added it in with Gaea's Cradle this last week, so it hasn't been used as much as I would like.
Devout Invocation requires a bit more thought. In all honesty I've only drawn it twice since I built this deck a month ago, so I defiantly hasn't seen enough play for me to feel super comfortable meddling with it quite yet. When I have managed to draw into it however, it's preformed well. But I would like to play I a couple more times to decide how I feel about it in different situations. Thank you though, the feedback is very helpful.