in your list I would cut 2 Fatal push (since your creatures are gonna be bigger than your opponent it's not that useful without an easy way to trigger revolt) and shave one or 2 graps.
4 enablers are not enough. You need at least 8, and 10+ to be able to trigger revolt reliably. Alright it's a kill spell that costBG but it's no abrupt decay... Abrupt decay can hit permanents... I like comparisons like the next man but there's limit. to it
I played a bit online and I feel that the GB matchup can be tough. The snake needs to be dealt with. 4 harnessed lightning might not be enough, I'll add some incendiary flow for good measures.
If you go GB, you can still keep the red for your Harnessed Lightning, Voltaic Brawler.
Or you can hybridize to some energy cards and some counters cards. You won't need Servant of the Conduit or Attune with the Aether necessarily. rishkar, peema renegade and Walking Ballista work well with the snake, and your renegade won't mind being a 3/2 or 4/3. I'm not sure, it requires some careful planning, and make sure the deck doesn't fall apart if the Snake is absent.
Walking ballista is a first pick in draft, that's about it. It's typically the card that without the snake is completely useless.
Have we considered a possible GB energy build? Winding Constrictor is a house and Glint-Sleeve Siphoner and Fatal Push are quite nice. Add in the new 'must have card' Greenbelt Rampager and you get a REALLY strong synergy Longtusk Cub. It basically lets you cast the greenbelt to amass energy then consistently convert it, never letting it resolve as a 3/4 and remaining in hand as a battery, roughly translates as: pay GG - Longtusk gets a +1/+1 counter. If you have a constrictor though... you get: pay G - Longtusk gets two +1/+1 counters. Longtusk will also amass more counter per attack damage trigger. I've been musing a build, but the curve is a bit too low to the ground in its 1st draft (it may not need servants actually and maybe prefer tireless trackers?):
Other obstacles of this draft is surviving board wipes and getting around chumping. Heart of Kiran deals with things like gideon. Losing chandra by dropping red hurts our control match up, so not sure what the fix is there ye..
This GB shell looks interesting. The snake seems to be the real deal, with bonus energy and bonus counters.
What I also find interesting is the new bob, that can be used in place of Tireless tracker to leave some place at the 3 drop spot for Rishkar and Nissa, voice of Zendikar.
in your list I would cut 2 Fatal push (since your creatures are gonna be bigger than your opponent it's not that useful without an easy way to trigger revolt) and shave one or 2 graps. I'll also remove the 2 verdurous gearhulk since you'll probably already have big creatures.
That's 6 freed slots for 2 Rishkar, 2 Nissa and 2 Tracker, something like that.
If you loose with like a dozen of energy counter you still lose the game. No point in having 20 energy counter if you can't use them. You need payoff cards for playing energy, namely Hydra, Cubs or Marvel.
In my opinion that will be the deck to beat and against which any G/R/u energy variants will have troubles. The best way usually is to include planeswalkers in the mix. Chandra, Torch of defiance is great, Nissa, voice of zendikar just got better since Copter is out and Nissa, vital force is a house against control.
I don't think that the pummeller combo version of the deck stands a chance against this kind of control shell so that's why I'll keep experimenting with a midrange version.
The 3 cards left after all the playsets of the main cards are in. Here I've put in 2 Nissa, voice of zendikar and one heart of kiran. I have not tested those cards yet.
It is possible that in the end 4 blossoming defense might be too much and I could shave 1 or 2 but it has always been useful. Will depend on the meta. Since Saheeli combo will be a thing I expect a lot of interactions.
Rishkar, Peema Renegade also seems like it is worth testing. You'll have to let me know how you get on with that. A mini Verdurous Gearhulk that can help ramp seems like it could be good.
I've been testing in GB Counters aggro and the card is bonkers. I don't know if it's good here. It seems pretty nuts with Longtusk Cub, allowing for explosive turn 3's.
t1 Attune
t2 Cub
t3 Rishkar into G spell like Rampager -- that's 9 power by turn 3.
Actually, the more I talk about it, maybe I want 3x or even 4x Rishkar in the list.
I don't get your scenario. You can't put 2 counters on the same creature, so you have to give one to the cub and one for Rishkar. Or wait T4.
On another note, have you guys testing Longtusk cub and greenbelt rampager in the same deck. Do they work together ?
I think that with the recent banning the deck is well positioned to be top Tier. The 3 decks that was causing problems, namely GB delirium, Aetherworks Marvel and vehicule aggro are now gone.
I don't think that the pummeler combo version is even warranted now.
His version of the deck is full combo, so there are actually no flex spots. On the play you just want to go for it. I could see cutting a bit of the pump package against aggro to SB in some natural state and Harnessed lightning.
Joe Losset might have played like 2 rounds of Standard ? It's really not conclusive.
I'll maybe go to one more small standard tourney and will just wait for Aether Revolt. Something tells me there won't be so many energy cards in the set. It has been really pushed in Kaladesh, making it possible to play a 90% Kaladesh deck that is definitely tier 2. They exploref a lot of design space already. Unless they print a good aggro energy one or 2 drop I don't see the deck going Tier 1.
The blue splash is okay. The blue/red and green/blue fastland are very good and can just replace basic lands. Playing those I would advocate for cinder glade instead of game trail so you don't have all your duals arriving tapped in the late game.
Talking about lands, with the blue splash it opens the possibility of playing Wandering fumarole or lumbering falls. In your opinion, what would be the best ? I would tend to favor Fumarole, since hexproof is a very relevant keyword.
What are your thoughts about it ?
If you play manlands, you literally just want one.
While on 4-color, I played Game Trail over Cinder Glade since you can open up your early turns with Attune with Aethers. There's a cost/benefit to both shadowlands and battlelands that has to be analyzed for each specific list.
Yeah I was planning on playing just one, probably will go for Lumbering falls since I have the card at the ready. I don't like Fumarole much, not resilient enough.
I've been happy with the battlelands, will stick to it for the moment.
The blue splash is okay. The blue/red and green/blue fastland are very good and can just replace basic lands. Playing those I would advocate for cinder glade instead of game trail so you don't have all your duals arriving tapped in the late game.
Talking about lands, with the blue splash it opens the possibility of playing Wandering fumarole or lumbering falls. In your opinion, what would be the best ? I would tend to favor Fumarole, since hexproof is a very relevant keyword.
Between Chandra and Arlinn I think there is no contest at all. Chandra is miles ahead. You can use her as a removal, card advantage and ramp tool, while its ultimate is game ending. Arlinn is very clunky and her low starting loyalty is a big liability in a world of smuggler's copter. I never managed to ult her once.
Facing a goldfish Arlinn is better. But when the 2 tops decks are UW flash and GB deliruim, scenarios where you can flip here and +1 the turn after are rare.
One glaring example is Arlinn on an empty board versus Chandra on an empty board. Chandra is providing card advantage, threatening to ult and can get rid of a creature on the board.
What can Arlinn do in this case ? You will flip her first to make a wolf. Then what? +1/1 trample on a single wolf ? Maybe you would like to create another wolf then you need to deal 3 to a target, maybe a creature if you are lucky or else to the face. Then she can help you by giving haste to creatures you draw, which is good. Wolf + damages + haste will leave you with a planeswalker at 3 loyalty, while Chandra would have been at 7, threatening to ult next turn while providing you with card advantage.
Another example is on a loosing board. You are getting overwhelmed, getting beat up by some smuggler's copter or something else and you have maybe just one creature. Arlinn can produce a wolf and probably die next turn with her 3 loyalty. 4 mana 2/2 is not good. You can maybe boost your creature for a suicide attack. Chandra can kill one of the opposing creature while getting killed after. 4 mana removal, not good but okay. Or you can push her at 5 loyalty to help you survive. The one extra loyalty is actually a big deal. 4 damage is a Mindwrack demon or a copter + depala/ veteran. 5 is actually much harder to kill in this standard.
That's why I strongly advocate for Chandra instead of Arlinn. If you are on a budget go Arlinn, as having planeswalker is the deck is a good thing. But if you have the $ go Chandra. She has been overperforming for me. This deck is a good shell for her.
In total I have only 5 flex spots usually occupied by Incendiary flow, Revolutionary rebuff (not tested yet), blossoming defense and Nature's way.
For the top end I'm starting to like the Skysovereign more and more, even more than the Gearhulk. It's ability to arrive and kill a creature is for me more valuable than attacking with 4 more power/toughness. It's usually a 3 for 1 + it's better against control than the gearhulk.
I feel more and more than the deck needs at least 2 blossoming defense. Games I lose are the one when all my creatures get picked off by removal then the Hydra dies to some sacrifice creature effect (blighted fen, the escalate white spell and to the slaughter). Blossoming defense is always a blowout for your opponent. Our creatures are usually bigger than our opponent's so playing more protection and less kill spell might be the way to go.
Not having a one drop creature let your opponent be able to clear the board each turn without suffering from pressure to his life total. Blossoming defense can mitigate that. It's versatility is also good.
Clip wings is also good against the demon, also good against UW flash, I was even thinking putting 3 in the SB. Thanks for your suggestions.
And what's your rationale on harnessed lightning out on the play ? I guess the idea is to hold up counterspell on turn 3 instead of harnessed lightning.
4 enablers are not enough. You need at least 8, and 10+ to be able to trigger revolt reliably. Alright it's a kill spell that costBG but it's no abrupt decay... Abrupt decay can hit permanents... I like comparisons like the next man but there's limit. to it
I played a bit online and I feel that the GB matchup can be tough. The snake needs to be dealt with. 4 harnessed lightning might not be enough, I'll add some incendiary flow for good measures.
Walking ballista is a first pick in draft, that's about it. It's typically the card that without the snake is completely useless.
This GB shell looks interesting. The snake seems to be the real deal, with bonus energy and bonus counters.
What I also find interesting is the new bob, that can be used in place of Tireless tracker to leave some place at the 3 drop spot for Rishkar and Nissa, voice of Zendikar.
in your list I would cut 2 Fatal push (since your creatures are gonna be bigger than your opponent it's not that useful without an easy way to trigger revolt) and shave one or 2 graps. I'll also remove the 2 verdurous gearhulk since you'll probably already have big creatures.
That's 6 freed slots for 2 Rishkar, 2 Nissa and 2 Tracker, something like that.
So guys, meta will be shaked off a lot because of the bans, but there is one thing for sure. There will be a very strong U/B control deck. With Fatal push, graps of darkness, yaheeni's expertise, Liliana, blue gearhulk, glimmer of genius and disallow.
In my opinion that will be the deck to beat and against which any G/R/u energy variants will have troubles. The best way usually is to include planeswalkers in the mix. Chandra, Torch of defiance is great, Nissa, voice of zendikar just got better since Copter is out and Nissa, vital force is a house against control.
I also switched longtusk cub for Greenbelt rampager. I like the cub but maybe the greenbelt is just better at stopping aggro decks (huge body) and surviving yaheeni's expertise.
I don't think that the pummeller combo version of the deck stands a chance against this kind of control shell so that's why I'll keep experimenting with a midrange version.
Here is my take :
4x Aether Hub
9x Forest
4x game trail
4x Mountain
Creatures 20
4x Greenbelt rampager
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Tireless Tracker
4x Bristling Hydra
3x Chandra, torch of defiance
2x Nissa, voice of Zendikar
1x Nissa, Vital force
1x Heart of Kiran
The rest
4x Attune with Aether
4x Blossoming Defense
4x Harnessed Lightning
My version of the deck has 4 flex spots:
It is possible that in the end 4 blossoming defense might be too much and I could shave 1 or 2 but it has always been useful. Will depend on the meta. Since Saheeli combo will be a thing I expect a lot of interactions.
I don't get your scenario. You can't put 2 counters on the same creature, so you have to give one to the cub and one for Rishkar. Or wait T4.
On another note, have you guys testing Longtusk cub and greenbelt rampager in the same deck. Do they work together ?
I don't think that the pummeler combo version is even warranted now.
Brutal banning indeed.
GreenBelt rampager has been spoiled.
It would seem good in a deck that lacks one drops.
I'll maybe go to one more small standard tourney and will just wait for Aether Revolt. Something tells me there won't be so many energy cards in the set. It has been really pushed in Kaladesh, making it possible to play a 90% Kaladesh deck that is definitely tier 2. They exploref a lot of design space already. Unless they print a good aggro energy one or 2 drop I don't see the deck going Tier 1.
Yeah I was planning on playing just one, probably will go for Lumbering falls since I have the card at the ready. I don't like Fumarole much, not resilient enough.
I've been happy with the battlelands, will stick to it for the moment.
Talking about lands, with the blue splash it opens the possibility of playing Wandering fumarole or lumbering falls. In your opinion, what would be the best ? I would tend to favor Fumarole, since hexproof is a very relevant keyword.
What are your thoughts about it ?
Facing a goldfish Arlinn is better. But when the 2 tops decks are UW flash and GB deliruim, scenarios where you can flip here and +1 the turn after are rare.
One glaring example is Arlinn on an empty board versus Chandra on an empty board. Chandra is providing card advantage, threatening to ult and can get rid of a creature on the board.
What can Arlinn do in this case ? You will flip her first to make a wolf. Then what? +1/1 trample on a single wolf ? Maybe you would like to create another wolf then you need to deal 3 to a target, maybe a creature if you are lucky or else to the face. Then she can help you by giving haste to creatures you draw, which is good. Wolf + damages + haste will leave you with a planeswalker at 3 loyalty, while Chandra would have been at 7, threatening to ult next turn while providing you with card advantage.
Another example is on a loosing board. You are getting overwhelmed, getting beat up by some smuggler's copter or something else and you have maybe just one creature. Arlinn can produce a wolf and probably die next turn with her 3 loyalty. 4 mana 2/2 is not good. You can maybe boost your creature for a suicide attack. Chandra can kill one of the opposing creature while getting killed after. 4 mana removal, not good but okay. Or you can push her at 5 loyalty to help you survive. The one extra loyalty is actually a big deal. 4 damage is a Mindwrack demon or a copter + depala/ veteran. 5 is actually much harder to kill in this standard.
That's why I strongly advocate for Chandra instead of Arlinn. If you are on a budget go Arlinn, as having planeswalker is the deck is a good thing. But if you have the $ go Chandra. She has been overperforming for me. This deck is a good shell for her.
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Bristling hydra
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Attune with Aether
Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, torch of defiance
Top End
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1 Verdurous gearhulk
1 Nature's way
2 revolutionary rebuff
2 blossoming defense
Land
4 Aether Hub
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Cinder glade
6 Forest
3 spirebluff canal
3 Mountain
4 Weaver of Lighting
2 Appetite for the unnatural
1 Clip Wings
4 Galvanic Bombardment
1 Negate
3 Spell Shrivel
In total I have only 5 flex spots usually occupied by Incendiary flow, Revolutionary rebuff (not tested yet), blossoming defense and Nature's way.
For the top end I'm starting to like the Skysovereign more and more, even more than the Gearhulk. It's ability to arrive and kill a creature is for me more valuable than attacking with 4 more power/toughness. It's usually a 3 for 1 + it's better against control than the gearhulk.
Not having a one drop creature let your opponent be able to clear the board each turn without suffering from pressure to his life total. Blossoming defense can mitigate that. It's versatility is also good.
And what's your rationale on harnessed lightning out on the play ? I guess the idea is to hold up counterspell on turn 3 instead of harnessed lightning.