The goal is to be aggressive. Build tempo and close the game with a flurry of burn spells. 17 lands maybe too low but with 8 cantrips and 4 Remands should help us find answers. Any advice?
I play GDS and wanted to try BUG because having green is more consistent on applying pressure with Traverse. I haven't tested the list yet, but would appreciate inputs from those who have experience with it. Thanks!
I've been wanting to play this deck for sometime but been missing on some money cards in Vial and Misty. I have a set of Marsh Flats as trade fodder for Vials. Other substitutes for Misty? I have Verdants from my Jund deck and all the other blue fetches. I supposed an off color blue fetch is more necessary?
As for dropping Cryptics and shaving land, do you guys think its better to go RUG Delver if we are going this route? I think Cryptics allows the deck to grind and push the last amount of damage needed. Even with the soft lock being a secondary option, it is the deck's identity and what Shota built the deck around.
I can see the Turbo Xerox theory in play with Opt. I play Miracle Grow back in extended and what made the deck ticks is the soft lock of Winter Orb plus the free spells in FoW, Gush, Daze and Foil. While a bit of stretch, Cryptic functions similarly in this element with EC.
Please treat whatever I said with a grain of salt as I do not have enough reps with the deck. Thank you everyone for the contributions!
I've been jamming 3 LoTV main, taking the list written by PVVDR and playing GDS Jund style. I kinda missed mainboard Denials but it has been working fine so far.
The flexspots are
1 Lightning Bolt
1 IoK
1 LotV
I'm running this draw-go list right now. Jammed a few games against EldraziTron and postboard, removing bolts feels more like UW control without the land disruption. Match up is close but very winnable. Gideon of the Trials feels mediocre and will be replaced by Ajani Vengeant once I get a copy. I think Gideon Ally is also good in stabilizing the board. My sideboard could really used some Runed Halos and an Engineered Explosives. I used to play Esper Control and UW but having bolts really help against very aggressive decks and can help speed up the clock against Combo and Tron. Esper Charm is a hell of a card though. My manabase feels smooth and I didn't experienced much trouble getting Verdict or Cryptic online. I'll test Desolate Lighthouse next time.
I play 3 Leylines, 1 Cage SB and 3 MB Ooze. It's good enough against GY decks. I like that Spellbomb replaces itself but it can be sometimes easy to play around it and recover in no time.
4-0 in a 16 people fnm tonight with duke list; I dont have time for long explication about each round but I'll write something quick.
Sb change:
-1 shatterstorm
-2 leyline
-2 collective brutality (dont have them paper, they are rare in my city)
+1 night's of soul betrayal
+2 baloth
+1 lili last hope
+1 engineer explosive
Match 1:
Win 2-0
Affinity
Was easy, Lavamencer, kcommand and 4push MD did the job.
Olivia won game 1 by herself btw;
You have Etched champ on board? FINE. My Olivia hit harder (=
Match 2:
Win 2-1
Ponza (land destroyer)
Pretty hard matchup, but I was on play. I think the matchup can be win on play; very though on draw.
I got good draws. The only ''good play'' I did was:
On turn 3, there is 1 noble in his graveyard and relic on play. So I shock myself on turn 3 to get 2 green manaopoen.
At the end of my turn he used his relic to exile the noble. In respond I eat noble. In respond he sac his relic to exile
all grave. Then in respond I eat again the noble. Shocking myself on this turn was huge because I had to to eat the bird and it alowed me to play arround anger of the gods/Bonfire. On his turn 3 like a miracle he dopdecked Bonfire. If I dont do the
play, my ooze would have died and I would have lost the game (Ooze did pressure all game long).
Match 3:
Win 2-1
Bant company
Voice is anoying, Coco is anoying (thank you cage)
I conceded game 2 because I felt I was losing and we had just 15min left on timer. It wasnt unwinable,
but I was pretty sure my chance of winning game 3 were pretty high. One thing was sure. ''Draw'' wasnt a possibility.
Game 3 was pretty close. I finished at 2 Hp. Found a way to stablize the board with Olivia on board.
Match 4:
Win 2-1
Smallpox
I loved so bad my baloth in game 2. I've been so patient with it; I had tarmo on board with 4 land (1 raging ravine).
I was playing arround lili keeping mana open to active raging ravine in answer to lili. So.. if he makes me discard. I drop baloth.
If he drop lili or smallpox to kill tarmo, I active raging. He makes me discard baloth + kcommand. Then I drew a land so I attacked with baloth, tarmo and baloth. I was sad about his wrench mind.. I wanted to live my dream.
My dream is: I drop baloth, he kills baloth, he makes me discard, Kcommand bring back baloth in hand in respond.. DREAMMMM
Funny fact, exept my first win, the 3 others player I played against finished 3-1 (so I've been their only lost)
So I finished first and I've beat the 2nd, the 3rd and the 4th.
I like the list overall gg
Jund can still win and is still playable.
7-1 to my 8 last matchs at a FNM.
Congrats, nicely done! A few question concerning Reid's list that was also discussed a few posts back: How did 6 fastlands and 3 mnalands went for you? I feel that 9 lands CIPT past turn 3 is too clunkly. I also play 4 Push, 2 Bolt, but would like to stick to 2 AB and 2 KCommands, moving the singleton Lavamancer to SB. I feel that AB and KCom is a necessary evil in a wide-open meta where we can expect some number of janks that both can deal with.
I run this list last weeked to a 3-1 and 2-2 finish last weekend (losses are to Tron and 1 to DS)
Reid just beat Vizier company to go up 11-0. That was a very close game where Reid really leveraged on his skill to wipe the company's board with Olivia Voldaren and swing for the win with some timely push and seize. It was truly a joy to watch. I hope he wins the whole thing.
His sideboard is the same as posted but his main has one Lavamancer and Olivia Voldaren.
Reid is playing a list similar to the one posted above but with -1 Abrupt Decay and +1 Terminate. Crazy how Ced was wondering why Reid is still playing Traditional Jund rather than DS. But Reid and us here know that greatness comes at any cost!
so i tested the 11 creature suite with Hazoret, Hellkite and 8 discard spells and found it pretty tough to turn the corner against aggressive decks unless you have an early goyf. for example, against stompy green, they will exhaust your removals and a confidant wont do much on defense.
i moved hellkite now to SB and cut a thoughtseize for 2 ooze which i liked better. Will continue to do more testing.
Hey guys. Grixis player here(in this case, a Grixis Death's Shadow player here).
I have couple of questions about how UW Control approaches the Grixis Shadow matchup.
1) What's your sideboard plan against Grixis Shadow/How do you find the matchup?
2) It was pointed out to me from a fellow UW Control player of yours that we(as Grixis Shadow players) should side in our Surgical Extraction. Truth be told, I do not like it, because if you land a Rest In Peace those are two dead cards and I know from Joarthus streams that UW Control cuts a Snapcaster mage sometimes when they side in the Rip. It was pointed out to me also that UW Control has a serious problem if we side in our Surgical Extraction to maybe Extract your Supreme Verdict or your Snapcaster Mage.
All in all, have you faced a Surgical Extraction from a Grixis(or maybe Jund) Death's Shadow player? If yes, it was problematic? If no, do you think it would be a problem for you if we guys sided that card in?
3) Do you think that Fatal Push would be annoying from Death's Shadow players if you faced it? In other words, do you believe that the DS players should keep their Fatal Push to fight your Celestial Collonade? Or U/W just don't care at all and if the game goes long, it's going to win anyways?
Thanks in advance. Really, really like U/W Control and am watching various streamers with it.
hi Gkourou, I have not tested a lot against Grixis Shadow so take this with a grain of salt.
1. Against Shadow in general, RIP comes in to neuter Goyfs and Traverse, and Snap/Tasigur in Grixis. Celestial Purge and Runed Halo comes in too. I normally shave some copy of Verdicts, Snaps and Cryptics (against Grixis). Gideon of the Trials is also looking good against this match up.
2. UW control is a robust deck and Surgical is not really effective. The deck is not as reliant to GY as well like some dedicated bolt-snap decks. Sure, hitting Cryptic or Path can be troubling sometimes but it doesn't really affect the deck's overall strategy. The answers are pretty diverse too, you'd see list with only 2 Snaps, or 2 Cryptics or 2 Verdicts.
3. Keep some Pushes for Colonnades. This is how I win mostly against DS. If i have a Runed Halo or Gideon of the Trial to control your threats, it will be over quick with Colonnade beats.
@Dassul
I don't run Leak as well, i'm actually on 2 Snares and Negate because my meta is pretty fast. However, I don't think Leak is that bad if you are running AV because you need cheap answers early to bridge you to the late game.
Im also done with AF for now. If you're meta is mostly midrange and control, sure it might work. But against very aggressive decks where you are jockeying for board control and under constant pressure, its dead.
i got massacred 1-3 in my last FNM playing 2 AF and 2 lil Gid. I gotta say, what's being said about AF is true: it's good in matchups where we are already favored or ahead but sucks against fast decks where we are on the backfoot. it really feels as a win-more card. On the otherhand, Gideon of the Trials was amazing all day. It can clock and pressure early and forces opponent to interact with it.
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Island
1 Plains
3 Spirebluff Canal
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Geist of Saint Traft
30 Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
4 Opt
4 Remand
3 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
3 Mana Leak
2 Boros Charm
2 Spell Snare
1 Vapor Snag
The goal is to be aggressive. Build tempo and close the game with a flurry of burn spells. 17 lands maybe too low but with 8 cantrips and 4 Remands should help us find answers. Any advice?
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
1 OVergrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
2 Snapcaster Mage
16 Spells
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Serum Visions
4 Opt
4 Bauble
3 Traverse the Unvenwald
As for dropping Cryptics and shaving land, do you guys think its better to go RUG Delver if we are going this route? I think Cryptics allows the deck to grind and push the last amount of damage needed. Even with the soft lock being a secondary option, it is the deck's identity and what Shota built the deck around.
I can see the Turbo Xerox theory in play with Opt. I play Miracle Grow back in extended and what made the deck ticks is the soft lock of Winter Orb plus the free spells in FoW, Gush, Daze and Foil. While a bit of stretch, Cryptic functions similarly in this element with EC.
Please treat whatever I said with a grain of salt as I do not have enough reps with the deck. Thank you everyone for the contributions!
The flexspots are
1 Lightning Bolt
1 IoK
1 LotV
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Celestial Colonnade
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Snapcaster Mage
31 Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Electrolyze
4 Path to Exile
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Serum Visions
3 Think Twice
4 Cryptic Command
3 Logic Knot
1 Negate
1 Secure the Wastes
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Gideon of the Trials
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Wear // Tear
1 Dispel
1 Elspeth Sun's Champion
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Celestial Purge
1 Vendillion Clique
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/modern-jund-deck-guide/
Congrats, nicely done! A few question concerning Reid's list that was also discussed a few posts back: How did 6 fastlands and 3 mnalands went for you? I feel that 9 lands CIPT past turn 3 is too clunkly. I also play 4 Push, 2 Bolt, but would like to stick to 2 AB and 2 KCommands, moving the singleton Lavamancer to SB. I feel that AB and KCom is a necessary evil in a wide-open meta where we can expect some number of janks that both can deal with.
I run this list last weeked to a 3-1 and 2-2 finish last weekend (losses are to Tron and 1 to DS)
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Woooded Foothills
4 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Cryot
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
12 Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Oooze
1 Huntmster of the Fells
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Fatal Push
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
15 Sideboard
4 Fulminator Mage
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
1 Duress
1 Golgari Charm
1 Anger of the gods
This list is currently tuned to my meta. But in a large unknown meta I would change it to:
Mainboard
-1 Kolaghan's Command
-1 Huntmaster
+1 Terminate
+1 Olivia Voldaren
Sideboard
-1 Fulminator Mage
-1 Duress
-1 Anger of the gods
-1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
+1 Kolaghan's Command
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+2 Collective Brutality
His sideboard is the same as posted but his main has one Lavamancer and Olivia Voldaren.
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
Planeswalkers (6)
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Spells (19)
4 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Collective Brutality
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Shatterstorm
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/655660#paper]
i moved hellkite now to SB and cut a thoughtseize for 2 ooze which i liked better. Will continue to do more testing.
hi Gkourou, I have not tested a lot against Grixis Shadow so take this with a grain of salt.
1. Against Shadow in general, RIP comes in to neuter Goyfs and Traverse, and Snap/Tasigur in Grixis. Celestial Purge and Runed Halo comes in too. I normally shave some copy of Verdicts, Snaps and Cryptics (against Grixis). Gideon of the Trials is also looking good against this match up.
2. UW control is a robust deck and Surgical is not really effective. The deck is not as reliant to GY as well like some dedicated bolt-snap decks. Sure, hitting Cryptic or Path can be troubling sometimes but it doesn't really affect the deck's overall strategy. The answers are pretty diverse too, you'd see list with only 2 Snaps, or 2 Cryptics or 2 Verdicts.
3. Keep some Pushes for Colonnades. This is how I win mostly against DS. If i have a Runed Halo or Gideon of the Trial to control your threats, it will be over quick with Colonnade beats.
@Dassul
I don't run Leak as well, i'm actually on 2 Snares and Negate because my meta is pretty fast. However, I don't think Leak is that bad if you are running AV because you need cheap answers early to bridge you to the late game.
Im also done with AF for now. If you're meta is mostly midrange and control, sure it might work. But against very aggressive decks where you are jockeying for board control and under constant pressure, its dead.