Shambling Vent is not ideal for this type of mana-hungry deck. Nothing feels worse than getting beat down only to draw have your third land come into play tapped. A few marsh flats should be played in order to fetch up a basic (for blood moon) or a dual BW land. Blood moon is a huge problem for this deck. The mana base is streched really thin due to the tidehollow sculler.
@JurK
You need to play 24 lands that is non negotiable. Besides that your land distrubtion is fine, however I much prefer Field of ruin and wastes in the deck, gives you a few % vs bloodmoon and if field of ruin is your only colourless source it doesnt take you off colourless. Also I would play fetches or blood moon is just auto lose.
Reality Smasher is the best card and you should never go below 4.
Relics are bad, even vs dredge. I would rather play more RiP in sideboard. I've had way more success since removing Relics from my maindeck.
There is no reason you should play dismember, cast down is just better.
You need some maindeck answers to Bridge and Moon like ratchet bomb and anguished unmaking.
Fulminator mage is pointless, since all the decks that it's good vs like dredge and scapeshift are 10% matchups anyway.
Interesting list! I was never a fan of the relic lists and created this thread when the relevant eldrazi were printed as a more midrange varient to the processor version at the time, but the deck never really took off:
I did pretty well at FNM with it, but didn't really play in any larger tourneys. However, I haven't played <>BW eldrazi in a while and I am glad that you are doing well with your list. Why don't you run any fatal push?
I felt that the deck could be either explosive or clunky at times and it really needed a way to filter draws. I would almost try a version without lingering souls (as crazy as that may sound!) since it feels like you are compeating against casting an eldrazi or lingering souls during turn 3. I would change up the deck to make it a bit more consistent and find some card draw.
As an aside, how does Kaya, Orzhov Usurper play out in the processor version of this deck?
I think we are both on the same page about splashing red. It is so easy since we need so many fetches with death's shadow and the main cards that are really good in red are Kolaghan's Commands and wear // tear. Wear // tear is just so much better than disenchant, which is pretty good right now.
I like your list but I am a bit hesitant about the Smuggler's Copter, it seems the only difference between our lists is I'm running some mediocre knights and matter reshaper while you are running copter, lingering souls, and tidehollow. I am interesting in how your testing goes.
I am also finishing up my list on MTGO, I am just waiting to pull the trigger and buy my remaining cards... I would expect a decent number of UW spirit decks online, so Settle the Wreckage should be better than damnation.
I am not the biggest fan of alpine moon. It seems good against scapeshift but it would be horrible against tron. You are basically color fixing there manabase just to help them cast Nature's Claim.
Stony silence is a very good card, but the affinity matchup is already okay with all the removal, Kolaghan's Command, and lingering souls. It would be very nice against KCI decks though.
So I have been looking at death's shadow decks to try and see how they exactly loose so much life. It looks like they usually loose life through:
The BCWR eldrazi midrange deck easily incorporates all of these except for the mana base. It is very difficult to build a mana base that includes at least:
Which leaves us with a sub-optimal number of fetches preventing us from loosing life efficiently. However, we include a decent number of Caves of Koilos to slowly bring our life down throughout the match. We could add some Talisman of Indulgence in the mainboard as another source of life loss or C.
Since we have a sub-optimal way to loose life, this will prevent the number of explosive starts that a death's shadow deck usually has. However, the main point to include a death's shadow into the mainboard it to have another must-answer threat that comes down on turn 3+.
So I have been working on the BCW (splash R) eldrazi shadow deck a bit more now. Honestly, I believe that white is the weakest color and cut lingering souls from the main in order to add lightning bolt instead. Lingering souls was a bit clunky in this deck, it felt like it always got in the way and just was not aggressive enough. Bolt is pretty versatile where we can finish the opponent off, kill a creature, and it gives us another way to damage ourselves.
I am keeping white for access to strong sideboard cards and I haven't really even thought about what R sideboard cards to include. Plus, a death's shadow deck needs more than 4 fetches so it is easy enough splash a different color. If I had the money or the cards, I would probably drop W and add G for 4 goyfs and drop the other 2 drops that I have.
Currently, this is a B and C deck splashing WR. Here is the current iteration:
For example, Elves and Tron, Ugin is too powerful.
If you want to beat tron you have to disrupt them and apply pressure. This means siding out cards that are slow such as lingering souls and bitterblossom.
As for elves, yes it is difficult. You really need to hit a sweeper. You could try out a few Smuggler's Copters since they are weak to flyers. A sweeper will also miss the copter. I would recommend damnation, Zealous Persecution, or languish for sweepers.
Hello, Ive been playing this deck configuration for a while now in local FNMs and a few ~40 man tournaments and its been preforming nicely.
Its a similar mid-range list, with more of a focus on grinding my opponents out with tokens and smugglers copter than the build you've got here.
I hadn't thought of including the DS package to the list though, I'll have to try that out and see how it feels. Especially if it means I get to use K Command in this deck
Awesome list! I like the inclusion of Bitterblossom with Smuggler's Copter. Plus Smuggler's Copter is great with a 2/2 Tidehollow Sculler that is usually too weak to attack by itself. Plus the inclusion of copter and bitterblossom lowers the mana-curve a bit. The CBW midrange brews are usually flush with good 3+ drops and finding good 2-drops can be a problem. How is the one copy of Thalia, Heretic Cathar working out? Have you thought about working in a copy of Knight of Grace or Knight of Malice? What are some of your problematic matchups?
What is the costing you the most life loss against burn? Usually if you are able to pull of a Collective Brutality using at least 2 modes it is game over. I would use all three modes on turn 2 if it the opponent was tapped out and a creature is on the battlefield. Collective Brutality absolutely wrecks burn. Personally, I had a lot of problems against burn (when I was getting back into MTG) but after I learned more about the deck I was able to play around problematic cards and minimize my life loss.
Against burn, I would side out all of your Thoughtseize and Bitterblossom and add some more removal. If burn still is a huge problem you can add some rest for the weary to your sideboard.
Matter Reshaper is also a great efficient eldrazi that you might want to try out.
The other thread is completely dead and I personally think the processor part is the weakpoint of the deck. I've tried to get off the processor plan, but man I just can't find cards that synergize well enough to back up the plan.
It is weird that the BW processor thread has been dead ever since the forums changed format.
I also 100% agree that the processor part is the weakpoint of the deck. I also feel that Relic Of Progenitus is a sideboard card and is typically a two mana draw one. Night's whisper would be a much better card to run instead if you just wanted to draw cards. I have recently been playing esper shadow, but when I played this deck I came to the conclusion that wasteland strangler was typically a vinalla 3/2 and I would rather run matter reshaper or eldrazi displacer instead.
Both black and white have extremely powerful 2 drops Thalia, Guardian of ThrabenDark Confidant that just dont work in a deck like this, and not a random good in all decks card like Snapcaster Mage. However I think with the way modern is going and with the unbanning of Stoneforge Mystic sometime in the future this shell might just become the best shell for a stoneforge deck, but for now Kitesail Freebooter just might be the best 2 drop in modern for this deck which kind a forces your hand to play Stranglers.
My problem with Death's Shadow plan is that you just don't have the permission of grixis or the tutoring on jund to really justify it, and knight's dont battle tarmogoyf well.
Man imagine the world with Stoneforgy. Go to 24 lands(which im now returning to anyway in the deck, removing Mindstone which just blows), take all chaff out for some pushes, redesign manabase for fetches. Replace Stranglers for some Matter Reshaper and throw in some Liliana of the veil and baby we have a stew going.
I am also of an opinion that Lingering Souls is the only reason to play this type of a deck so it just might be uncuttable.
We agree again. BW has some powerful 2-drops (thalia and bob) and they do not fit well with this deck. Eldrazi cost too much for bob and lingering souls is too good of a card to cut and thalia makes it too expensive.
My original thought process to add death's shadow to this deck was such:
I like to run 6 discard spells. 6 is the number that Jund typically uses and the number has worked out well for me. Running 6 discard spells usually required me to crack a fetch or put a godless shrine in untapped on turn 1. So my life total would be around 16 or so after the first two turns. This has changed a bit with the printing of Concealed Courtyard. But Caves of Koilos also hurts a bit.
Add in a turn 3 attack by the opponent and my life was already down to 12 ish. This deck usually diddled around for the first few turns unless we had an eldrazi temple in hand.
This deck really lacked card draw. Street wraith has the versatility where we can loose life, draw a card, or just play it as a creature. It essentially makes this a 56 card deck so we have a high probability to draw eldrazi.
Think of death's shadow as another efficient beater that gets better as the game goes along. Not only does the opponent have to deal with our super efficient eldrazi, they also have to contend with a death's shadow. Thought-knot seer into reality smasher is already back-breaking. What about adding a death's shadow into the mix? I don't need permission spells if I have discard, thought-knot seer, matter reshaper, and reality smasher! Plus we can now play Kolaghan's Command due to the increased number of fetches and shock lands needed to play death's shadow.
Yes, the knight's do not battle 'goyfs that well. But they fill a two-drop hole that this deck has and can either dodge a path or fatal push. I like them due to the first strike and possible 3 power, which is enough to close out the game in a decent number of turns. The one power on Kitesail Freebooter pretty much makes it unplayable for me.
So I've been playing this deck a lot and had multiple PPTQ top 8s, random price tournament top 8s and a lot of FNM good results averaging a bit over 3-2.
The argument here is mana vs power vs body. Kitesail Freebooter has hugely superior mana cost and way way better body compared to 2/2 body of Tidehollow Sculler. Kitesail not hitting creatures is mostly irrelevant since vs creatures matchups tidehollow is the 2nd card to get the cut after relic. Also since we have no blink effects Tidehollow is only better vs 1 removal spell. If they have 2 the effect is mostly the same. I prefer Kitesail since this deck struggles with mana and I really like the body compared to 2/2 artifact.
This highly depends on your preference and the flavor you would like to add to the deck. You can't really go wrong, the only thing I would avoid is 3 artifacts or Eldrazi Displacer, I tested it a lot and the blink was highly irrelevant sadly, I've played it the last 3 tournaments and used the blink grand total of 0 times.
Lands:
This is super dependant on your metagame and goals. The mana base changes on how many man lands, land destruction lands and what colour distribution you want. This requires LOTS of testing and personal experience.
I always like at least 3 Land destruction lands like Field of Ruin or Ghost Quarter tho I higely prefer Field since I don't even sideboard for tron currently, just accept the loss.
I also like at least 3 man lands. You will feel less flooded having some extra stuff to spend your mana on.
If you run Land destruction lands you can only afford 1 Mutavault max. You can also run 4 Mutavault instead of Field of Ruin. This will allow you not to run any Shambling Vent making your mana base superior, however making you way more fragile to Ravaging Ravine, Celestial Colonnade and utility lands so I wouldn't recommend this.
The 8th colourless slot for me currently comes down to Mutavault vs Waste. Lots of bloodmoon in my metagame and with field of ruin letting me fetch Waste I prefer the basic which forces me to run:
3 Shambling Vent.
I just like 3 man lands. It's the number that my testing has shown to be the best vs how often I have to play a tapped land and screw my mana curve. Because I'm only running 23 lands I can't afford the 4th Concealed Courtyard or the great mana fixing land Fetid Heath.
Playtest a LOT:
Build different flexible slots manabases for different meta. 4 muta builds vs field of ruins builds vs no waste fetid heath builds. Just test a lot. Always include at least 3 man lands.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar Is a better card vs Kalitas and Ob but I simply don't like WW mana costs.
DISCLAIMER: Sorry if the post is incoherent, I'm really bad at this. If you need me to clarify my choices or Ideas more precisly and better I will try to do so, just ask what you would like to know. This stretches about a year of testing, I haven't played another deck since I started playing this. Tnx for reading.
Excellent write-up! Your deck is more processor-centric (since you have Relic Of Progenitus main board) and you might get some better feedback on the main BW processor forum here. However, the BW processor deck sort of morphed into this deck after the banning of eye of ugin.
Some points:
Kitesail Freebooter looks like a card that is perfect for the processor deck. The flying is great, but the 1 power is not the best. Just like tidehollow sculler, it is a horrible top-deck and is only really relevant at the start of the game. BW really needs a 2 CMC beater similar to tarmogoyf.
Have you thought about trying 4x simian spirit guide to have more consistent turn 2 or 3 thought-knot seer plays? This deck always felt 1 turn behind since the 2-drop spot was lacking but has amazing 3-drops.
I've been working on the BW eldrazi midrange + death's shadow card for a bit now. I am really liking how the deck is coming along and feel that it could potentially be the strongest deck BW<> eldrazi deck. It has:
Decent two-drops now with knight of grace or knight of malice. These still need to be playtested, but a 2/2 first strike with the potential to be a 3/2 is pretty good.
The ability to power out a turn 2 thought-knot seer or a death's shadow, depending on what you draw. This deck has much more consistent draws than the older BW<> eldrazi decks due to the addition of 2-drops and card draw.
It is super easy to splash red, which gives us access to Kolaghan's Command. The card is perfect for this deck.
Access to some of the best sideboard cards in modern. This essentially is BC with a WR splash.
I have added some more colorless mana options (brining it up to 11) with the addition of Zhalfirin Void. Some other mana options can be cavern of souls or mutavault but I wanted to test out the scry 1.
So far, I am really liking it. This deck can power out a thought-knot seer or a death's shadow. Even typical plays of turn 1 discard, turn 2 knight of malice, turn 3 lingering souls or thought-knot seer are backbreaking for the opponent. The new knight's from dominaria are really badly needed for the BW color pie so we have something to cast on turn 2.
Orzhov charm is there just as a one of to either bring back a death's shadow from the gravyard, re-occur thought-knot seer's, or even save one of our creatures from a removal spell.
Kolaghan's Command is there since it is such a great card and it is easy enough to splash red. Plus we need some more shocks and fetch's to play a death's shadow.
Has anybody tried adding death's shadow to this deck? I always thought that one of the biggest drawbacks of running BW was the life loss and the lack of a low-cost beater. But death's shadow and the two new cards: Knight of Grace and Knight of Malice could alleviate those problems.
Inverter of Truth is really performing that well? By turn 4 in usually don't have that many cards in my graveyard. But let's assume a good case scenario of the graveyard: 2 fetches, a discard spell, and some creature. If we cast inverter of Truth that will give us 4 turns to kill the opponenet before we loose since we don't have any cards left in the library. Plus you know that you'll be drawing dead cards (lands, etc). What if they just kill inverter of truth and just wait a few turns for us to die?
You might want to think about cutting Extirpate from the main board and cut your curve down a little. Extirpate is card disadvantage and I feel that it just conflicts with the gameplan. Ideally, you would play it on turn one but with a curve like what you have you will be conflicted on if you should play a creature or play extirpate and leave some mana open. I would also seriously consider some simian spirit guide to accelerate your mana. Eldrazi's are amazing, if you get them out early.
I'm not sure if this thread is still alive, but I lose nothing trying… Im a lover of b/w, most of my decks have the Orzhov colors in them. This is, by far, my favorite color combination. I have been playing b/w planeswalker and even if im sad to not play smallpox in this deck, I really want to cast powerful spells.
I want to start playing this deck just so I can cast TKS and Liliana in the same deck, is it too much to ask??
Im not playing on a budget since I have all the expensives b/w cards. Here is the list I plan on testing as soon as I get my hand on the eldrazi cards :
Side
3 stony silence
3 nihil spellbomb
1 pithing needle
3 fulminator mage
1 fragmentize
1 kembal, consul of allocation
1 Collective brutality
2 Damnation
Now I will go over some of my choices
Creatures
4 of all the overpowered eldrazi and 2 displacer. Im not sure about these 2, maybe Endbringer would be straight better, but it's a bit expensive at 6 mana. Still, this deck have no card draw and have a hard time dealing with tokens, so maybe 2x Endbringer is what we need as a top end?
I want to live the dream of getting my reshaper killed and get a free liliana of the veil
0 tidehollow sculler. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Sculler (wich have one of my favorite artwork in mtg) but I find it underpowered in this list and hard to cast. With so many removals in the format, our opponent will likely get his card back and I feel like with all our discard, having a weak 2drop is not where i want to be
0 Wasteland stranger. Powerfull card when it's working, very bad when it's not. As a midrange deck, i don't to rely on synergy. Also, this card put some pressure on the deck building because we need more exile effects to make him worth it (path and relic). If I wanted to play this card, i would go for Eldrazi Processor.
Instant and Sorcery
4 push, 2 path, 2 brutality. Tota of 8 removals. Priority on path because i want to rely less on white mana on the early turn. Still the best removal spell. There is, i think, no reason to not play it in this deck. Dismember is an option (im loving the card in 8 Rack) but path is a clean answer.
3 Inquisition, 3 Thoughtseize. Im not sure about this split, but 6 discard spells (8 with brutality, 12 with lili and 16 with TKS) seems enough.
4 lingering souls. Best card in the deck, one of my favorite on the whole format. Even better when it's basically free discard with brutality and liliana.
Planeswalkers
4 veil, 1 last hope. Veil is overpowered, wich is why I can't see myself not running it. Last hope is great to deal with opponents tokens and to get us back eldrazi. I could see a 3-2 split depending on the meta.
0 sorin, gideon. 4 mana planeswalker is not where i want to be. We don't have enough tokens to make sorin solemn visitor +1 very good. Also, they don't go into the battlefield with reshaper.
Manabase
Damn it was hard to build! So many possibilities.
3 ghost quarter for tron players and man land. They could be field of ruins, but i don't like the fact i can just get T3 karn on the draw because field of ruins cost 2 to activate
2 Urborg. Better consistency for the BB spells. Can also bluff on turn 1 that we are on some pox build. Only 2 because we don't want dead cards in hand and being abble to play our eldrazi on time is key.
1 sea gate wreckage. I already said we don't have card draw, that's why i included it. It still might not be good enough…
0 ifnir deadland. Seems good, basically a 2 colors land in our deck. But i think we need more removals.
0 vault of thr archangel. I would like to play this card to break the midrange mirror. Maybe instead of the third ghost quarter
2 fetches for blood moon, but only 3 basic. We are very greedy with our mana haha… I Like it
Side
3 stony silence. This is the reason i have no mind stone in the main. This card is too good to pass against Affinity, lantern and tron.
3 nihil spellbomb. Cantrip and exile graveyard. I chose it over rest in peace because of lingering souls.
3 fulminator mage. For tron, control and valakut. Especially good with last hope.
1 kembal, 1 Collective brutality. For burn and storm.
1 pithing needle. For a variaty of matchup, from Affinity to control to lantern.
1 fragmentize. For white leyline, lantern and Affinity. Maybe I will play 2 (over the needle) depending of the meta.
2 Damnation. For aggro matchup.
Building a sideboard is very hard when you never actually played the deck. This is a rought draft.
Please comment
Thx all!
Hi MeleeQC2! You can definitely play thought-knot seer and liliana of the veil in the same deck! I haven't played this deck in a while, but here are some of my findings (an answers to your questions).
I agree, one of the main problems with this deck is the lack of card draw and plethora of CMC3+ drops. This deck is mana greedy I could see adding cards like simian spirit guide to the main 60.
I would lower your mana curve a bit. Shave off a reality smasher and cut some 3-drops.
You might want to think about cutting all of the inquisitions since you have enough removal and adding a few night's whisper for some added card draw. Possibly add another thoughtseize to combat all of the jace's and bloodbraids that will be running around. Your deck has 8 discard spells plus 4 more tacked on to thought-knot seer.
I would change up your manabase a bit. It is very difficult to have enough black sources to cast liliana on turn 3 reliably. Check the primer for more information. Blood moon can also be a total beating if you don't have any C through a wastes or a mind stone. I spent a better part of a year optimizing a manabase found in posts #19 and #20 in this sub, you can start from there if you would like.
I wouldn't worry about optimizing your manabase for tron unless it is prevalent in your meta. There whole decks revolves around them setting up tron, it is far more effective to disrupt their hand, removing a relevant threat, and proceed to be as aggro as possible.
Has anybody given Gideon of the Trials a try in this deck? I see that there has been some recent commotion about him, but he seems really good for this deck.
Ammit eternal also looks pretty good for this deck. One of the biggest problems with deadguy ale was the lack of a cheap beater (a black gofy). Running something like:
Shambling Vent is not ideal for this type of mana-hungry deck. Nothing feels worse than getting beat down only to draw have your third land come into play tapped. A few marsh flats should be played in order to fetch up a basic (for blood moon) or a dual BW land. Blood moon is a huge problem for this deck. The mana base is streched really thin due to the tidehollow sculler.
Smuggler's copter is not that great unless you have plenty of ways to activate it. You should be running bitterblossom mainboard if you want to run copter. I do like copter with lingering souls, a few bitterblossoms, and tidehollow sculler
Why is everybody running cast down instead of fatal push? We have plenty of spaces for path to exile to take care of the larget creatures.
Interesting list! I was never a fan of the relic lists and created this thread when the relevant eldrazi were printed as a more midrange varient to the processor version at the time, but the deck never really took off:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/665909-bw-eldrazi-midrange
I did pretty well at FNM with it, but didn't really play in any larger tourneys. However, I haven't played <>BW eldrazi in a while and I am glad that you are doing well with your list. Why don't you run any fatal push?
I felt that the deck could be either explosive or clunky at times and it really needed a way to filter draws. I would almost try a version without lingering souls (as crazy as that may sound!) since it feels like you are compeating against casting an eldrazi or lingering souls during turn 3. I would change up the deck to make it a bit more consistent and find some card draw.
As an aside, how does Kaya, Orzhov Usurper play out in the processor version of this deck?
I like your list but I am a bit hesitant about the Smuggler's Copter, it seems the only difference between our lists is I'm running some mediocre knights and matter reshaper while you are running copter, lingering souls, and tidehollow. I am interesting in how your testing goes.
I am also finishing up my list on MTGO, I am just waiting to pull the trigger and buy my remaining cards... I would expect a decent number of UW spirit decks online, so Settle the Wreckage should be better than damnation.
Stony silence is a very good card, but the affinity matchup is already okay with all the removal, Kolaghan's Command, and lingering souls. It would be very nice against KCI decks though.
So I have been looking at death's shadow decks to try and see how they exactly loose so much life. It looks like they usually loose life through:
The BCWR eldrazi midrange deck easily incorporates all of these except for the mana base. It is very difficult to build a mana base that includes at least:
Which is pretty much impossible to do without a fetchable C mana source.
We pretty much need to cut down on either fetch lands or basics.
Which leaves us with a sub-optimal number of fetches preventing us from loosing life efficiently. However, we include a decent number of Caves of Koilos to slowly bring our life down throughout the match. We could add some Talisman of Indulgence in the mainboard as another source of life loss or C.
Since we have a sub-optimal way to loose life, this will prevent the number of explosive starts that a death's shadow deck usually has. However, the main point to include a death's shadow into the mainboard it to have another must-answer threat that comes down on turn 3+.
I am keeping white for access to strong sideboard cards and I haven't really even thought about what R sideboard cards to include. Plus, a death's shadow deck needs more than 4 fetches so it is easy enough splash a different color. If I had the money or the cards, I would probably drop W and add G for 4 goyfs and drop the other 2 drops that I have.
Currently, this is a B and C deck splashing WR. Here is the current iteration:
4 Death's Shadow
2 Knight of Grace
2 Knight of Malice
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-knot Seer
2 Reality Smasher
Card Draw (4):
4 Street Wraith
Discard (6):
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Spells (9):
2 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
2 Zhalfirin Void
Sidboard (15):
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
2 Damping Sphere
1 Wear // Tear
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Lingering Souls
2 Rest in Peace
1 Worship
edit: Replaced disenchant with Wear // Tear
If you want to beat tron you have to disrupt them and apply pressure. This means siding out cards that are slow such as lingering souls and bitterblossom.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is typically very bad against this deck since we run so many colorless creatures. Add some matter reshapers!
As for elves, yes it is difficult. You really need to hit a sweeper. You could try out a few Smuggler's Copters since they are weak to flyers. A sweeper will also miss the copter. I would recommend damnation, Zealous Persecution, or languish for sweepers.
Awesome list! I like the inclusion of Bitterblossom with Smuggler's Copter. Plus Smuggler's Copter is great with a 2/2 Tidehollow Sculler that is usually too weak to attack by itself. Plus the inclusion of copter and bitterblossom lowers the mana-curve a bit. The CBW midrange brews are usually flush with good 3+ drops and finding good 2-drops can be a problem. How is the one copy of Thalia, Heretic Cathar working out? Have you thought about working in a copy of Knight of Grace or Knight of Malice? What are some of your problematic matchups?
I still haven't gotten to test out the death shadow version but I am leading towards cutting a couple creatures for some more card draw. Possibly -2 Knight of Grace for +2 faithless looting, night's whisper, sign in blood, plunge into darkness, or some other card draw or filtering.
It seems that you have a lot of high converted mana cost drops! You could think about including a couple Smuggler's Copters by cutting either a reality smasher, Batterskull, and/or Demon of Catastrophes.
What is the costing you the most life loss against burn? Usually if you are able to pull of a Collective Brutality using at least 2 modes it is game over. I would use all three modes on turn 2 if it the opponent was tapped out and a creature is on the battlefield. Collective Brutality absolutely wrecks burn. Personally, I had a lot of problems against burn (when I was getting back into MTG) but after I learned more about the deck I was able to play around problematic cards and minimize my life loss.
Against burn, I would side out all of your Thoughtseize and Bitterblossom and add some more removal. If burn still is a huge problem you can add some rest for the weary to your sideboard.
Matter Reshaper is also a great efficient eldrazi that you might want to try out.
It is weird that the BW processor thread has been dead ever since the forums changed format.
I also 100% agree that the processor part is the weakpoint of the deck. I also feel that Relic Of Progenitus is a sideboard card and is typically a two mana draw one. Night's whisper would be a much better card to run instead if you just wanted to draw cards. I have recently been playing esper shadow, but when I played this deck I came to the conclusion that wasteland strangler was typically a vinalla 3/2 and I would rather run matter reshaper or eldrazi displacer instead.
We agree again. BW has some powerful 2-drops (thalia and bob) and they do not fit well with this deck. Eldrazi cost too much for bob and lingering souls is too good of a card to cut and thalia makes it too expensive.
My original thought process to add death's shadow to this deck was such:
Yes, the knight's do not battle 'goyfs that well. But they fill a two-drop hole that this deck has and can either dodge a path or fatal push. I like them due to the first strike and possible 3 power, which is enough to close out the game in a decent number of turns. The one power on Kitesail Freebooter pretty much makes it unplayable for me.
Excellent write-up! Your deck is more processor-centric (since you have Relic Of Progenitus main board) and you might get some better feedback on the main BW processor forum here. However, the BW processor deck sort of morphed into this deck after the banning of eye of ugin.
Some points:
I've been working on the BW eldrazi midrange + death's shadow card for a bit now. I am really liking how the deck is coming along and feel that it could potentially be the strongest deck BW<> eldrazi deck. It has:
Here is the current iteration:
4 Death's Shadow
2 Knight of Grace
2 Knight of Malice
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-knot Seer
2 Reality Smasher
Card Draw (4):
4 Street Wraith
Removal (4):
2 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
1 Orzhov Charm
2 Kolaghan's Command
Discard (6):
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Annoying flyers (for the opponent, 2):
2 Lingering Souls
Lands (24)
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blood Crypt
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
2 Zhalfirin Void
I have added some more colorless mana options (brining it up to 11) with the addition of Zhalfirin Void. Some other mana options can be cavern of souls or mutavault but I wanted to test out the scry 1.
I added an additional Street Wraith and cut a fatal push to have more card draw and life-loss options. I am tempted to try out plunge into darkness.
I still need to figure out which knight (knight of grace or knight of malice) works out better for this deck.
I am tempted to cut lingering souls from the main deck. It sometimes feels quite clunky and it might be better to play 2x gideons or lilianas.
4 Death's Shadow
2 Knight of Grace
2 Knight of Malice
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-knot Seer
2 Reality Smasher
Card Draw (3):
3 Street Wraith
Removal (5):
3 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
1 Orzhov Charm
2 Kolaghan's Command
Discard (6):
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Annoying flyers (for the opponent, 2):
2 Lingering Souls
Lands (24)
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blood Crypt
1 Aird Mesa
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
So far, I am really liking it. This deck can power out a thought-knot seer or a death's shadow. Even typical plays of turn 1 discard, turn 2 knight of malice, turn 3 lingering souls or thought-knot seer are backbreaking for the opponent. The new knight's from dominaria are really badly needed for the BW color pie so we have something to cast on turn 2.
Orzhov charm is there just as a one of to either bring back a death's shadow from the gravyard, re-occur thought-knot seer's, or even save one of our creatures from a removal spell.
Kolaghan's Command is there since it is such a great card and it is easy enough to splash red. Plus we need some more shocks and fetch's to play a death's shadow.
I always found U kind of lack-luster for death's shadow decks and I didn't like to run terrible cards like thought scour. This deck replaces Gurmag Angler and Tasigur, the Golden Fang with more active creatures such as thought-knot seer and reality smasher.
We could do something like:
4 Death's Shadow
3 Matter Reshaper
2 Knight of Grace
4 Thought-knot Seer
2 Reality Smasher
3 Street Wraith
Spells (11):
4 Thoughtseize
3 Lingering Souls
2 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (24)
4 Eldrazi Temple
20 Others
I used to run a bw midrange deck with abyssal persecutor which was a lot of fun. Here is the list: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/midrange/572973-bw-midrange-deadguy-ale?comment=602
You could always try out a few bearer of silence.
You might want to think about cutting Extirpate from the main board and cut your curve down a little. Extirpate is card disadvantage and I feel that it just conflicts with the gameplan. Ideally, you would play it on turn one but with a curve like what you have you will be conflicted on if you should play a creature or play extirpate and leave some mana open. I would also seriously consider some simian spirit guide to accelerate your mana. Eldrazi's are amazing, if you get them out early.
Here are some additional ideas for your brewing:
-X Eternal Scourge. Yeah this card is a pain for opponents but is only really good in a stalled board state. Matter reshaper, on the other hand, can accelerate mana drops. Opponents never feel good about giving you an additional card.
-X Oblivion Sower or Blight Herder
-2 Smuggler's Copter
-4 Extirpate
+2-4 more discard spells (thoughtseize, duress, etc). Getting cards in their graveyard is the key to processor synergy.
+3-4 matter reshaper
+0-2 night's whisper
+2 Fatal Push
+0-2 faerie macabre can exile cards or play as a creature.
Let me know how your testing goes!
Has anybody had a chance to test out field of ruin instead of ghost quarter?
Hi MeleeQC2! You can definitely play thought-knot seer and liliana of the veil in the same deck! I haven't played this deck in a while, but here are some of my findings (an answers to your questions).
I agree, one of the main problems with this deck is the lack of card draw and plethora of CMC3+ drops. This deck is mana greedy I could see adding cards like simian spirit guide to the main 60.
I had a lot of success back in the day with tidehollow sculler + wasteland strangler or tidehollow sculler + eldrazi displacer, but have always had a love/hate relationship with tidehollow. Currently, tidehollow is not good since lightning bolt is making a comeback and kolaghan's command is being played more than ever. It would be nice if there was a decent other 2-drop for us to play.
Some suggestions:
Let me know how your testing goes! Have fun!
Ammit eternal also looks pretty good for this deck. One of the biggest problems with deadguy ale was the lack of a cheap beater (a black gofy). Running something like:
Seems like a really good start. I feel that pack rat is pretty strong right now due to a people running fewer maelstrom pulses.
Tidehollow Sculler is pretty bad right now with all of the kolaghan's commands running around and no other way to utilize him (such as wasteland strangler or eldrazi displacer).