I love Keranos, but question the matchups you bring him in for
Why are people bringing him in against Twin? I understand he is a grindy finisher.. but what happens when you tap out for this guy and they're just like "ok, exarch, splinter twin" and you're like "oh yeah I don't have any mana left because of that 5 drop"
I read one guy say you can't play him on curve, which makes sense.. so you really can't consider him a 5 drop. He's a 7 drop. And even if you have a mana leak or remand up after dropping Keranos turn 7, a good Twin player should be able to still go off against Leak/remand..
It's a big risk.. and I guess big risk means big reward but, at what true cost? I'd absolutely HATE to tap out for Keranos only to lose to a combo.. that's like the worst possible scenario for a control deck.
Sorry it took me so long to get back.. I'm usually only able to post on here while at work (haha), but I do all my brewing at home so it takes me a while to reply.
I came up with a U/B/w list a couple nights ago that's SUPER aggro, with a touch of control.. will edit it in here ASAP
Haven't tested it extensively, but when it rolls, it rolls hard. Possibly swinging for 5/5 flying lifelink on turn 2 sounds pretty decent. There are lots of ways to get out a fatty beater nice and early. If ensoul artifact can escape abrupt decay, you will find it's pretty easy to crush people. Tezzeret is there more for a bit of late game clean up. If you get blown out early and they answer all your threats, that probably means they don't have much left and Tezzeret comes in and finds you more stuff to play and more 5/5 beaters. His ultimate can definitely shut the game down too, if you need it.
This obviously doesn't have the splash I was talking about earlier, but I will be posting a list or two or at least my splash ideas a bit later.. but as you can see, Tezzeret is not really the focal point of the deck. He is sorta the backup. He's the guy you rely on later for some serious advantage if they can handle your early board.
Thoughtseize is just a great card against combo, and picking out that early abrupt decay if you know your opponent. Slaughter pact is mainly there for combo creatures. Go for the Throat seems correct, because if they're playing an artifact creature, we most likely already have a good matchup. Serum helps find more beaters, plating, and sets up Tezzeret's +1. Clearly I like the indestructible 5/5 route, and think it has serious potential. Shatterstorm? Creeping corrosion? Ancient Grudge? Nobody exiles artifacts, all they do is destroy them. Gotta play around it, to an extent. Ingot is a turn slower sure, but it adds any color, with no life loss, and can't get destroyed. It sets up turn 4 Tezz with a mana to spare for Thoughtseize. Tapping all out (with a talisman) turn 3 for Tezzeret sounds nice, but also sets you up to get blown out by Twin and other combo. Slaughter Pact helps, but still iffy.
Anyway, let me know what you think about the 5/5 beater plan. It's obviously got some flexible spots. My biggest concern is facing straight up combo.
Sup all.. I've been following this thread closely as I love the idea and I love Tezz, AOB. I've got a pack fresh playset in my binder and I'm just waiting to bust him out into a modern deck. Never posted here but figured I'd start somewhere..
btw Raystack has been quite the hilarious addition to this thread.. comedic relief is always welcomed along with your MTG input of course
Onto the deck and my first questions.. which are truly burning questions..
Are you absolutely set on Liliana in this deck? Is it because she works so well with Bridge, the discard package, and the rack? I understand their synergies.. but my question is.. do they really belong here? Or are you guys simply stuck in this endless cycle of trying to make Tezz work with those cards? You keep coming up with new ideas and a few singletons here and there.. but Liliana, the bridge, and discard never change. I understand now even more than before you are trying to combine 8rack and AOB, but is that really where the deck should go? Have you branched off into something else? Are you looking for a fresh start? Do you think that's what this deck needs to get to the next level? Maybe bridge, liliana, and the rack aren't the way to go?
When it comes to U/B of course you want to go control. Discard is great and can help our game plan. Counterspells are also great but tough to matchup with our deck's style. But let's consider the colors themselves. U/B.
Have you ever considered just splashing U/B instead of it being the focal point? Tezz would end up being the main card we splash for, but we wouldn't be restricted to U/B.
What about a U/W control deck with B splash?
U/R with a B splash?
I just think there are colors that can interact with artifacts better than black.. and if we use those colors along with blue, and just splash for Tezz AOB it could be a deck with a litte more to do than durdle durdle rack rack rack.
What do you guys think? Have you experimented in that way before?
I don't post here much.. but I figured I'd drop my 2 cents..
I understand you guys love Pyromancer, and he can be great.. but you have to tune the deck to him so much that sometimes it actually hinders your deck's performance
I have a UR Delver list that I'll share and I've had some success with it. It's much more controlling, but also much MUCH more consistent.
I apologize ahead of time for the lack of links, but like I said I don't post here much and honestly if you don't know the following cards, you probably shouldn't be in the Modern forum in the first place...
Instants: (honestly, why would you even run sorceries?? oh yeah, Pyromancer)
Lightning Bolt x4
Remand x4
Cryptic Command x4
Spell Pierce x3
Spell Snare x3
Electrolyze x2
Magma Jet x2
Condescend x2
Izzet Charm x1
Sorcery: (Yep, just one)
Anger of the Gods x1
Artifact:
Vedalken Shackles x1
Planeswalkers:
Jace Beleren x2
Lands: (22)
Scalding Tarn x4
Misty Rainforest x2
Steam Vents x4
Sulfur Falls x2
Breeding Pool x1 (green for sideboard options)
Tectonic Edge x2
Mutavault x2
Island x4
Mountain x1
I don't run Pyromancer because I like the more controlling approach to the deck. We have plenty of burn, shackles, Stormbreath, and more burn just to finish them off. Not to mention Delver. I also am not a fan of vapor snag. It's great with Pyromancer, sure, but without Young Peezy it's just another weak card. Bouncing doesn't win you the game, similar to how Remand doesn't truly counter a spell. It sets them back a bit, or maybe you'll get lucky and bounce a token, but other than that Snag is really just there for Young P. Also don't like Serum Visions. "OMG What did he say???" Yep I said no Serum Visions. WtF do you need this card for?? Mana fixing? Add another couple lands (like Muta and Tec) and if you want to setup your top deck for Delver, use more proactive cards. There's a lot of Scrying available in Modern. Serum is GREAT in 3 color decks, combo decks, and decks that dig for much-needed answers. By dropping visions/pyromancer and just filling your deck with more answers you have stream-lined your approach and enhanced your consistency. Wtf is a hand full of pyromancers gonna do against pyroclasm or anger of the gods or electrolyze? He gets eaten alive. So do his tokens. I understand he can be good, I just don't think he belongs in U/R Delver which is designed to be more controlling anyway. Plus he weakens your chances of flipping Delver.
My one of's: Stormbreath Dragon: Pro path. Pro Resto Angel. Pro Baneslayer. Pro PRO PRO WHITE!!!! AMAZING creature and great finisher. And with all of the card draw and deck manipulation, you WILL see him and he will be GLORIOUS every single time. Tempted to run 2, but 2 in the opener sucks donkey balls. Anger of the Gods: Really useful in the main and still somewhat surprising to see for most players. Seems to be trending though. Keeping just 1 is great because it's there when we need it and doesn't show up much when it could be a dead card. Shackles: Another backup to Anger, in the sense that it just takes over a creature matchup. This card is great, and I run enough islands to take just about anything. Izzet Charm: A 4th copy of spell pierce (the best way to keep Delver alive early) can also be used to dig for answers and serves as another magma jet of sorts. Great versatility.
Last but not least... 2 Jace Beleren. Stuck in a stagnant stalemate? Hoping to take some pressure off your life total? Need to out-pace that mirror match? He's your man. Great 3 drop. -1 him until he is almost dead, then +2 him and then bring him back down again. I have enough removal/control to keep him alive long enough that usually you get 5 cards and they get 1. Awesome advantage. Also gets through the deck to find answers (namely the one of's).
I know pyromancer seems too aggro for cryptic. Which is also a shame because Cryptic is one of and always will be one of the best spells in Modern. It's amazeballs and you all know it. Pair it with snapcaster and opponents just want to wither and die. Cryptic REALLY gets it done.
Good luck guys.. and let me know what you think. Pz.
Sorry haven't had a chance to read the past few pages but I read earlier about Hasbro selling them online.. do we know if that is still happening and when they will be available?
Or maybe Modern Interracial? lmao
on a side note, I like Modern Oreos quite a bit..
edit:
More ideas: (sometimes I'm bored at work)
Modern Noir
Could always throw a path to exile in there
Great thread though.
Why are people bringing him in against Twin? I understand he is a grindy finisher.. but what happens when you tap out for this guy and they're just like "ok, exarch, splinter twin" and you're like "oh yeah I don't have any mana left because of that 5 drop"
I read one guy say you can't play him on curve, which makes sense.. so you really can't consider him a 5 drop. He's a 7 drop. And even if you have a mana leak or remand up after dropping Keranos turn 7, a good Twin player should be able to still go off against Leak/remand..
It's a big risk.. and I guess big risk means big reward but, at what true cost? I'd absolutely HATE to tap out for Keranos only to lose to a combo.. that's like the worst possible scenario for a control deck.
Sorry it took me so long to get back.. I'm usually only able to post on here while at work (haha), but I do all my brewing at home so it takes me a while to reply.
I came up with a U/B/w list a couple nights ago that's SUPER aggro, with a touch of control.. will edit it in here ASAP
Here we go..
Nonland x38
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas x4
Darksteel Relic x4
Vault Skirge x4
Ornithopter x2
Darksteel Ingot x2
Cranial Plating x2
Vedalken Shackles x2
Mox Opal x2
Ensoul Artifact x4
Serum Visions x4
Thoughtseize x4
Slaughter Pact x2
Go for the Throat x2
Lands x22
Darksteel Citadel x4
Scalding Tarn x3
Marsh Flats x2
Watery Grave x4
Drowned Catacomb x2
Island x5
Swamp x2
Haven't tested it extensively, but when it rolls, it rolls hard. Possibly swinging for 5/5 flying lifelink on turn 2 sounds pretty decent. There are lots of ways to get out a fatty beater nice and early. If ensoul artifact can escape abrupt decay, you will find it's pretty easy to crush people. Tezzeret is there more for a bit of late game clean up. If you get blown out early and they answer all your threats, that probably means they don't have much left and Tezzeret comes in and finds you more stuff to play and more 5/5 beaters. His ultimate can definitely shut the game down too, if you need it.
This obviously doesn't have the splash I was talking about earlier, but I will be posting a list or two or at least my splash ideas a bit later.. but as you can see, Tezzeret is not really the focal point of the deck. He is sorta the backup. He's the guy you rely on later for some serious advantage if they can handle your early board.
Thoughtseize is just a great card against combo, and picking out that early abrupt decay if you know your opponent. Slaughter pact is mainly there for combo creatures. Go for the Throat seems correct, because if they're playing an artifact creature, we most likely already have a good matchup. Serum helps find more beaters, plating, and sets up Tezzeret's +1. Clearly I like the indestructible 5/5 route, and think it has serious potential. Shatterstorm? Creeping corrosion? Ancient Grudge? Nobody exiles artifacts, all they do is destroy them. Gotta play around it, to an extent. Ingot is a turn slower sure, but it adds any color, with no life loss, and can't get destroyed. It sets up turn 4 Tezz with a mana to spare for Thoughtseize. Tapping all out (with a talisman) turn 3 for Tezzeret sounds nice, but also sets you up to get blown out by Twin and other combo. Slaughter Pact helps, but still iffy.
Anyway, let me know what you think about the 5/5 beater plan. It's obviously got some flexible spots. My biggest concern is facing straight up combo.
btw Raystack has been quite the hilarious addition to this thread.. comedic relief is always welcomed
Onto the deck and my first questions.. which are truly burning questions..
Are you absolutely set on Liliana in this deck? Is it because she works so well with Bridge, the discard package, and the rack? I understand their synergies.. but my question is.. do they really belong here? Or are you guys simply stuck in this endless cycle of trying to make Tezz work with those cards? You keep coming up with new ideas and a few singletons here and there.. but Liliana, the bridge, and discard never change. I understand now even more than before you are trying to combine 8rack and AOB, but is that really where the deck should go? Have you branched off into something else? Are you looking for a fresh start? Do you think that's what this deck needs to get to the next level? Maybe bridge, liliana, and the rack aren't the way to go?
When it comes to U/B of course you want to go control. Discard is great and can help our game plan. Counterspells are also great but tough to matchup with our deck's style. But let's consider the colors themselves. U/B.
Have you ever considered just splashing U/B instead of it being the focal point? Tezz would end up being the main card we splash for, but we wouldn't be restricted to U/B.
What about a U/W control deck with B splash?
U/R with a B splash?
I just think there are colors that can interact with artifacts better than black.. and if we use those colors along with blue, and just splash for Tezz AOB it could be a deck with a litte more to do than durdle durdle rack rack rack.
What do you guys think? Have you experimented in that way before?
I understand you guys love Pyromancer, and he can be great.. but you have to tune the deck to him so much that sometimes it actually hinders your deck's performance
I have a UR Delver list that I'll share and I've had some success with it. It's much more controlling, but also much MUCH more consistent.
I apologize ahead of time for the lack of links, but like I said I don't post here much and honestly if you don't know the following cards, you probably shouldn't be in the Modern forum in the first place...
Creatures:
Delver of Secrets x4
Snapcaster Mage x4
Stormbreath Dragon x1
Instants: (honestly, why would you even run sorceries?? oh yeah, Pyromancer)
Lightning Bolt x4
Remand x4
Cryptic Command x4
Spell Pierce x3
Spell Snare x3
Electrolyze x2
Magma Jet x2
Condescend x2
Izzet Charm x1
Sorcery: (Yep, just one)
Anger of the Gods x1
Artifact:
Vedalken Shackles x1
Planeswalkers:
Jace Beleren x2
Lands: (22)
Scalding Tarn x4
Misty Rainforest x2
Steam Vents x4
Sulfur Falls x2
Breeding Pool x1 (green for sideboard options)
Tectonic Edge x2
Mutavault x2
Island x4
Mountain x1
I don't run Pyromancer because I like the more controlling approach to the deck. We have plenty of burn, shackles, Stormbreath, and more burn just to finish them off. Not to mention Delver. I also am not a fan of vapor snag. It's great with Pyromancer, sure, but without Young Peezy it's just another weak card. Bouncing doesn't win you the game, similar to how Remand doesn't truly counter a spell. It sets them back a bit, or maybe you'll get lucky and bounce a token, but other than that Snag is really just there for Young P. Also don't like Serum Visions. "OMG What did he say???" Yep I said no Serum Visions. WtF do you need this card for?? Mana fixing? Add another couple lands (like Muta and Tec) and if you want to setup your top deck for Delver, use more proactive cards. There's a lot of Scrying available in Modern. Serum is GREAT in 3 color decks, combo decks, and decks that dig for much-needed answers. By dropping visions/pyromancer and just filling your deck with more answers you have stream-lined your approach and enhanced your consistency. Wtf is a hand full of pyromancers gonna do against pyroclasm or anger of the gods or electrolyze? He gets eaten alive. So do his tokens. I understand he can be good, I just don't think he belongs in U/R Delver which is designed to be more controlling anyway. Plus he weakens your chances of flipping Delver.
My one of's: Stormbreath Dragon: Pro path. Pro Resto Angel. Pro Baneslayer. Pro PRO PRO WHITE!!!! AMAZING creature and great finisher. And with all of the card draw and deck manipulation, you WILL see him and he will be GLORIOUS every single time. Tempted to run 2, but 2 in the opener sucks donkey balls. Anger of the Gods: Really useful in the main and still somewhat surprising to see for most players. Seems to be trending though. Keeping just 1 is great because it's there when we need it and doesn't show up much when it could be a dead card. Shackles: Another backup to Anger, in the sense that it just takes over a creature matchup. This card is great, and I run enough islands to take just about anything. Izzet Charm: A 4th copy of spell pierce (the best way to keep Delver alive early) can also be used to dig for answers and serves as another magma jet of sorts. Great versatility.
Last but not least... 2 Jace Beleren. Stuck in a stagnant stalemate? Hoping to take some pressure off your life total? Need to out-pace that mirror match? He's your man. Great 3 drop. -1 him until he is almost dead, then +2 him and then bring him back down again. I have enough removal/control to keep him alive long enough that usually you get 5 cards and they get 1. Awesome advantage. Also gets through the deck to find answers (namely the one of's).
I know pyromancer seems too aggro for cryptic. Which is also a shame because Cryptic is one of and always will be one of the best spells in Modern. It's amazeballs and you all know it. Pair it with snapcaster and opponents just want to wither and die. Cryptic REALLY gets it done.
Good luck guys.. and let me know what you think. Pz.
thanks in advance
This guy in a Doran deck is insane. Turn 3 swinging for 5 after you've gained a life? Seems legit.
Sorry if it was covered already.. I read a few pages but not all 51 lol
As for Ashiok's gender.. who really cares? IT is a good card