Sorry for not responding sooner, Vissah, I was away for the week.
If you read the first post that contains the primer you will see an example or two of pretty standard lists. Cards like Nature's Claim, Firestorm, and Lotus Petal are pretty common and useful in an open meta.
If you have any questions about learning to play the deck or about specific matchups, just let us know!
I haven't been playing Dredge much recently, but maybe it's time to bring it to another weekly event! It's been too long. (It hasn't been that long, but any extended period of time away from Dredge is too long for me :P)
That is a good point! We certainly can. I'll also change the title since our new primer isn't so new anymore.
I wonder if playing Dredge will be any better now that Miracles is gone. Maybe because of a decrease in Terminus, but Deathrite Shaman and Surgical Extraction are still everywhere.
Depending on your meta, putting most of your combo finish in the sideboard may or may not be correct. For example, I like to keep a DR target or two in the main because I rarely have a chance to combo out in games 2 and 3.
I would also recommend switching Griselbrand for Iona, Shield of Emeria. Iona can easily win games, whereas Griselbrand struggles a bit. He is nice to have as an enabler for more dredging, but I think he's more of a "win more" option. It's not like he can draw us into counterspells, and our opponent can just win the game when we pass the turn back to them.
That is not traditional Reanimator, it's the new flavor, BR Reanimator. They play Unmask because they can't play Force of Will. As a natural consequence, the black card count is higher.
I agree, Strix is good against Smasher, though hardly an answer when they just Warping Wail it. In my experience Tarmogoyf is pretty mediocre against Smasher. Most of the time it's not big enough to win a fight with it.
Maybe Eldrazi players in my area are just luckier than average, but it certainly doesn't feel like a significantly favorable matchup for Shardless. I do agree that Fatal Push helps, because if you top deck it after they cast Thought-Knot Seer you can at least kill that... unless they have Chalice on 1. The more I think about it, the less it seems to help. Dismember is probably just better in the matchup.
I would gladly replace my Disfigures with Fatal Pushes. The problem is, I took the Disfigures out quite a while ago because they're so weak against Eldrazi.
Right now I would have a hard time making room for Fatal Push in Shardless BUG, but I'm pumped to use it in BUG Delver.
Sorry for the delay in responses, guys. It's been pretty slow here for Dredge, so I haven't been checking consistently.
@burningtower - In my opinion, there is really no way to be ready for an event without playing in one. That's okay though, because we all start somewhere. I would recommend a free MTG program like XMage (which I prefer) or Cockatrice to get in some games against human opponents. If you're able to go to weekly Legacy tournaments in your area, or something similar, the pressure of winning all your matches will be very low while the amount of practice will do you a lot of good.
@TheMcFearless - I still haven't had a chance to test Amalgam much. I think it's a good card, but not as good as Ichorid. That said, I would imagine 1 or 2 is the correct number of Amalgams in Legacy. If you're playing without LED make sure you max out on Putrid Imp first. As a repeatable way to put dredgers in your graveyard it helps to replace LED as an enabler. You have some flexibility, though, so maybe you can play more Amalgams if they suit your style. I imagine they're quite good in grindy matchups.
@senserazer - It's like an all-in turn 1 version of Reanimator. I've never seen a list exactly like it before, but it borrows from a few versions of the deck. I think I'm missing a card, but I didn't count them, so oh well
@senserazer - Ah yes, that seems like a fairly weak sideboard plan if it takes that many turns to set up. I imagine getting the colors to both cantrip and cast Vampire Hexmage can be quite a pain. I haven't tested Prized Amalgam in LED Dredge yet, but I think he has decent potential. Bloodghast is an out-of-date and favor choice. Street Wraith is nice in Manaless Dredge, but we have access to much stronger cards because we play lands. For example, Breakthrough. I personally play more Putrid Imps because then I rely less on my cantrips to put stuff in the grave and can use them to dredge.
@SHABOOGS - True, Chancellor is a decent target for Dread Return. Unfortunately, it has to compete with Iona, Shield of Emeria, Dragonlord Kolaghan, and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. I just don't see it performing better than those three in LED Dredge. If someone wants to play Chancellor of the Annex and they like the results, that's awesome. I just play Chancellor in my super fast version of Reanimator, so I'm not looking for another place to play them.
I feel like we may have talked about that in the previous thread, but it's been a while. What exactly would be in the transformation, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage, and Life from the Loam? If it's a plan that relies on Loam it's a very bad idea because decks already bring strong graveyard hate against us.
Vintage is a very different beast. I don't think Chancellor is the way to go for us because it does nothing in the graveyard and nothing to enable our engine. I think Chancellor is good in Manaless Dredge because they are so reliant on going second.
I agree with playing Kolaghan over FKZ, but I personally don't maindeck Iona.
If you read the first post that contains the primer you will see an example or two of pretty standard lists. Cards like Nature's Claim, Firestorm, and Lotus Petal are pretty common and useful in an open meta.
If you have any questions about learning to play the deck or about specific matchups, just let us know!
I've always been a fan of Wispmare and Ingot Chewer, so I'll continue to play those. Prized Amalgam and Nether Shadow are appealing to diversify our threats against Surgical Extraction.
I haven't been playing Dredge much recently, but maybe it's time to bring it to another weekly event! It's been too long. (It hasn't been that long, but any extended period of time away from Dredge is too long for me :P)
I wonder if playing Dredge will be any better now that Miracles is gone. Maybe because of a decrease in Terminus, but Deathrite Shaman and Surgical Extraction are still everywhere.
Depending on your meta, putting most of your combo finish in the sideboard may or may not be correct. For example, I like to keep a DR target or two in the main because I rarely have a chance to combo out in games 2 and 3.
I would also recommend switching Griselbrand for Iona, Shield of Emeria. Iona can easily win games, whereas Griselbrand struggles a bit. He is nice to have as an enabler for more dredging, but I think he's more of a "win more" option. It's not like he can draw us into counterspells, and our opponent can just win the game when we pass the turn back to them.
Maybe Eldrazi players in my area are just luckier than average, but it certainly doesn't feel like a significantly favorable matchup for Shardless. I do agree that Fatal Push helps, because if you top deck it after they cast Thought-Knot Seer you can at least kill that... unless they have Chalice on 1. The more I think about it, the less it seems to help. Dismember is probably just better in the matchup.
Edited for an extra word.
Right now I would have a hard time making room for Fatal Push in Shardless BUG, but I'm pumped to use it in BUG Delver.
@burningtower - In my opinion, there is really no way to be ready for an event without playing in one. That's okay though, because we all start somewhere. I would recommend a free MTG program like XMage (which I prefer) or Cockatrice to get in some games against human opponents. If you're able to go to weekly Legacy tournaments in your area, or something similar, the pressure of winning all your matches will be very low while the amount of practice will do you a lot of good.
@TheMcFearless - I still haven't had a chance to test Amalgam much. I think it's a good card, but not as good as Ichorid. That said, I would imagine 1 or 2 is the correct number of Amalgams in Legacy. If you're playing without LED make sure you max out on Putrid Imp first. As a repeatable way to put dredgers in your graveyard it helps to replace LED as an enabler. You have some flexibility, though, so maybe you can play more Amalgams if they suit your style. I imagine they're quite good in grindy matchups.
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Island
(Instants/sorceries)
4 Careful Study
4 Unmask
4 Entomb
4 Daze
2 Brainstorm
4 Reanimate
3 Unburial Rites
4 Exhume
1 Ashen Rider
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sire of Insanity
3 Massacre
4 Show and Tell
4 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Contagion
3 Sickening Shoal
@Punksterbass - Congratulations! Do you normally play Flayer in the main and Force in the side? I'm curious how those perform for you.
@SHABOOGS - True, Chancellor is a decent target for Dread Return. Unfortunately, it has to compete with Iona, Shield of Emeria, Dragonlord Kolaghan, and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. I just don't see it performing better than those three in LED Dredge. If someone wants to play Chancellor of the Annex and they like the results, that's awesome. I just play Chancellor in my super fast version of Reanimator, so I'm not looking for another place to play them.
Vintage is a very different beast. I don't think Chancellor is the way to go for us because it does nothing in the graveyard and nothing to enable our engine. I think Chancellor is good in Manaless Dredge because they are so reliant on going second.
I agree with playing Kolaghan over FKZ, but I personally don't maindeck Iona.
I'm not too upset because at least we got some decent stuff in Shadows Over Innistrad, even if it was mostly just for Modern.