I think it's a blip on the radar, to be honest. The meta going forward (more Twin, which means less Affinity) is favorable to us overall. And we had a reasonable overall representation in Day 2 (3.9%). Chalk it up to a bad weekend and move on.
With regards to this whole U Devotion thing brought up by FANAttIC... I'm in agreement with CoBTyrannon in that it detracts from the Merfolk discussion. Additionally, in terms of raw power, I find that deck to be a tad lacking when compared to something like Merfolk, and I'm not sure that it's a "people haven't tried to do this!" issue. It's a deck that needs synergy to be potent, but would be actively skipping out on the pump synergy from Merfolk Lords, which is more powerful than anything else you could come up with in U for an aggressive strategy. The reason why U Devotion doesn't exist in Modern is because taking its best pieces (Master of Waves, maybe Thassa, God of the Sea) and jamming them into the Merfolk shell results in a stronger deck.
I actually think that the WU proponents are a very small minority of Merfolk players. It just so happens that they're a vocal one, and that gives the impression that there are more of them. I also totally forgot about the Mutavault nonbo - that makes Suppression Field even worse. Gonna have to say nay on that card.
Additionally, I'd like to announce that the Budget Options, Æther Vial uses, and Tier 2 matchups sections are now complete. I'll soon add Cody_X's example of a budget deck, as well as matchup information for other named decks. Barring any other suggestions, the primer will then be complete. I'd appreciate feedback on anything that's currently up.
Twin and Jund are decks we can be outright favored against with the proper sideboard using a mono-U shell. Hurkyl's Recall helps a lot against Affinity. The W splash hurts our consistency overall, and Suppression Field (which has friendly-fire interactions with Cursecatcher as well as Æther Vial) is not good enough a card to make me want to risk the loss in consistency. I'd consider the splash for cards like Worship, which gives our bad matchups tons of problems (provided you survive to that point, of course), but not for Suppression Field.
I opt for the Timeshifted one, because it has the Merfolk creature type. I've had enough people ask me whether he's a Merfolk that it would drive me batty to have to explain it more.
In general, I would say that mainboard Dismember vs. Vapor Snag depends almost entirely on how much Burn and Zoo you expect to face. The more popular those decks are, the less appealing Dismember is (for obvious reasons). I'd also say Vapor Snag is the more versatile spell overall (since you can save your guys with it and it can help you win life races by having their attack against you result in a net -1 life), but Dismember has the "hard removal" aspect going for it. For waht it's worth, I'm in a perpetual struggle to make room for Dismember in my sideboard, but I always run mainboard Vapor Snags.
Hi there! Allow me to offer some answers to your questions:
1. I think that Modern is a good deck to learn the format with. You'll get exposure to the way a lot of things work, since Merfolk uses creatures, spells, and noncreature permanents, and has a variety of matchups where sideboarding judiciously is often the difference between a win and a loss.
2. I think it's a good deck to grow with, otherwise I wouldn't have volunteered to take over the primer. It's got nice interaction, and is nuanced in terms of playing and deckbuilding, especially the sideboard. I've been playing it for a long time now, and I still agonize over what I have in my board.
3. Merfolk is good because it's a deck that can beat face fast, or beat face gradually while disrupting your opponent. We have game against pretty much everybody, though the easiest matchups are U-based control and midrange decks. As far as the most entertaining matchups go, I like playing against Burn or Zoo for the fast-and-furious "the race is on" kind of feel, and against Jund or Abzan for the blow-for-blow "chess match" kind of game.
4. It's mostly Affinity and Elves. Combo decks like Amulet Bloom and Grishoalbrand can be annoying at times, especially if your counterspell package is not deep, but they can be overcome once you sideboard. This is why cards like Spell Pierce, Negate, and Unified Will are important.
5. Merfolk is pretty resilient to sideboard hate. Sweepers like Anger of the Gods, Engineered Explosives, and especially Supreme Verdict hurt, but they can be played around. I'd say the ones that suck the most are Boil and Choke, but if you have an Æther Vial and/or a board state, you can win through them. I'd say artifacts like Ensnaring Bridge, enchantments like the aforementioned Choke, and hexproof creatures (or a mass of creatures) are the hardest to deal with once they're on the table, but in general we can answer pretty much anything (one of the major perks of the deck tbh).
6. Hibernation is used to get the tempo back on your side. If your opponent is Elves and they have 8 dudes on the table by turn 4 (not uncommon), Hibernation forces them to start over, which either gives you the opening you need to swing for lethal, saves you from them swinging for lethal, or buys you the time you need to finish them off. It also does well against Zoo (since most of those creatures are also G). Given that Elves is an exceptionally tough matchup, it makes for a good sideboard option.
Dismember is used as necessary. One of the nicer plays you can use it for (in my opinion) is to kill mana dorks in order to slow your opponent's start. If your opponent's creature count is low, then you can hold it for a specific target (like Tasigur, the Golden Fang, for example). We use it mostly because U doesn't have much true removal (the fact that we don't otherwise lose life from our own cards is a bonus).
The reason why most decks don't use that many instants is because we have creatures (like Cursecatcher and Harbinger of the Tides) that have effects similar to instants, so we can afford to pack in more dudes. Incidentally, the existence of Harbinger is the reason why Vapor Snag has seen a dip in play - we can get a similar effect and get a body as a bonus.
7. I should have bought it up earlier. I kind of durdled on some of the purchases, and had to spend more money because of it. This deck is never getting banned, and never going out of style.
I'm sort of under the impression that we are either a slight dog to Jund or that it is 50/50. The things that tilt the match dramatically in either direction will be the construction of the 75 for both sides and of course skill levels of both players.
re
I can thrash every poor Jund player I play. The good players play very differently and sideboard correctly. The cards I fear the most are Inquisition, Thoughtseize, and Bobby. A lot of Jund players side these cards out because they argue Inquisition is dead lategame or that Bob will kill them because they are up against an "aggro" deck.
How either deck's construction matters. Do we play dismemebers? Do we main Tidebinder Mage? Are they playing many copies of abrupt decay? Do they play darkblast or Olivia Voldaren?
I think that we are even with Jund at the worst. I agree with you on the cards that I fear the most, and those are cards that my Jund opponents never, ever side out. I do not use Dismember, though it woudl be nice here. I also bring in Tidebinder Mage off the board. Most Jund decks (that I know of) play a Olivia Voldaren in there somewhere.
Honestly, the biggest key in this matchup might be whether you're running 8-Seas or not (as steven11788 noted). If you're on 8-Seas, you're definitely favored. Otherwise, it's trickier to say.
I think Master of Waves is a must-have 3-4 of in the 75, and I prefer to have mine mainboard. However, I can understand putting 1-2 in the side if you're running a bit lower to the ground (like 8-Seas does, for example).
Also, just wanted to say that I've made some pretty extensive editing based on the feedback I've received. Some things are still under construction (notably the section for budget alternatives and how to use Æther Vial), but I'd like to know what you guys think of the new layout.
Thanks for all the great feedback, guys! Let me respond to your comments first, then I'll put together a plan on how I plan to address the issues raised.
I agree with this. I mostly train aginst my friends Jundlist. At the start, when i knew what i was doing and he didn't, i crushed him hard. 9 out of 10 Bo3s were mine. NOW however, he learned to play against me. It took him some time, but i don't see any flaws in his play anymore, he makes the right decisions and well, what can i say. No matter how prepared i am for this matchup i can barely reach 50:50. If i even take one or two cards of my Jundhate out of my deck, i lose a lot of Win%.
A lot of this matchup is drawdependant, diceroll dependant and the thing you can influence the most: Riskmanagement.
To beat Jund consistently, you have to take calculated risks. You can't always play around everything or you get behind. But you can't walk into every blowout either.
This matchup is definitely winnable, but NOT favoured. It's even!
Of course this depends on individual decklists, but neither my friend nor myself is willing to commit more cards to the matchup than this. There are other decks out there that we want to beat too.
This seems to be a contentious opinion. Some people (and the large-scale match data from MTGGoldfish) have come out in support of it being favorable, others have it pegged as more 50:50. I'll have to think about how to address this section going forward.
Gladly!
It's confusing, drawn out and doesn't convey the important information efficiently enough.
The information is there, but it doesn't stand out, because it gets overwhelmed by the unnecessary or less necessary information.
Primers are for the new people primarily.
Don't give them choice, tell them what to do.
Tell them what the deck does. The different types, strengths and weaknesses of the decklists. When(Metas) to play them and most importantly how to play them. Go into the core cards, explain interactions of those core cards. What to look out for.
Even the matchups and how to play them should come after that.
Focus on the important stuff.
AFTERWARDS, you can add all the possible cards that are out there. But then be strict, and explain them why cards XY are BAD and should not be played at the moment. When some cards are good and how you best use said cards.
At this point listing over 100 cards is just bla bla. You can write that stuff for people that want to dig deeper but hide it from plain sight for the newbies. Use the spoilertags.
This is very good advice. I'll make some changes to make the primer more directed and newbie-friendly.
To be honest, i offered to write this primer too, but i didn't just do it, because i didn't feel confident enough to be able to do it. I have a whole Primer for myself in Paper, but there are so many Questionmarks in it, i'm uncomfortable writing it up.
I just can't measure up to the standards i expect the new Primer to have. And up to now, the new Primer is by no means better than the old One. It's just the same superficial bla bla.
It is definitely more recent, but that's pretty much it.
Not sure what this is supposed to contribute, to be honest. You have such high standards that you can't meet them yourself? Doesn't sound like this will lead to productive discussion (though on the other hand you've had some very good comments).
And to make it more constructive i give you one specific card:
Aether Vial!
This card should get an entire chapter on its own. How do i use it, how do the triggers work. Tricks like jumping from 2 to 4 or that you don't have to place a creature in(announce it before). Newbies don't know this kind of thing. And that is, what you should teach them.
Pretty much the absolute MUST KNOW for effective Merfolkplay.
This is a huge suggestion. HUGE. I need to write a section on how to use Vial appropriately.
And i honestly hate it if a new Merfolkplayer, maybe playing the deck for 2-3 months tells others his oppinions like it is a fact. When its not more than an unproven hypothesis, based on his very limited time of playing the deck. At least with a good Primer i can assume he knows and uses the cards to full effect. His comments get more credibility.
I'm not saying you can't get there, but i think you are in over your head.
I hope you raise to the occasion.
This comment confuses me. Are you referring to new players spouting off on the thread? Or are you referring to me? Because I've been playing Merfolk for quite a while. I might not have been on this particular forum until recently, but I have a pretty good amount of reps with the deck. As for the last part... thanks for the condescension, bro. Really helpful.
Gladly!
It's confusing, drawn out and doesn't convey the important information efficiently enough.
The information is there, but it doesn't stand out, because it gets overwhelmed by the unnecessary or less necessary information.
Primers are for the new people primarily.
I completely agree with this. I appreciate the effort going into a new primer but at just a glance it feels immediately out of date. For example, none of the splashes actually work. I see Sea's Claim versions of the deck succeeding more than UW Merfolk, and of course people are trying the splashes. So many dubious cards are mentioned though there is no trace of them succeeding in the most currently successful versions of the deck. Like, Wake Thrasher? This card was NEVER good. New players will get exceptionally confused by all this.
There is less content on the cards that matter than on the cards that don't.
Duly noted, I'll put some work in to refine the primer into something more directed.
Some more primer suggestions (I hope Im not being too intrusive)
-Do not bother with color coding matchups on difficulty. As we can already see it's very up to debate how good a matchup is, and it adds very little useful information; it's much better to focus on the strategy of beating the deck than praising or dooming the player before the match even starts. You could briefly mention it for decks like affinity where there is a definite outlier but trying to categorise matchups by difficulty is a waste of time.
Yeah, it doesn't look like those are being well-received. I think I'll cut them.
-Some creatures in additional options should not be in there. Merfolk Sovereign, Sygg Cutthroat and Wake Thrasher (Coralhelm to a lesser extend) do not see play, and while some people might like to experiment with running them, a primer should focus on the tried and true core of the deck which these creatures definitely are not. I'd earlier put them in a "not to play" paragraph than an options paragraph. Mothdust Changeling is only for budget variants (and even then Judge's Familiar is better), and Spellskite should be a Sideboard card (where it is still questionable)
Fair. Blurting out all of the options hasn't been well-received, either.
-Card suggestions in general should be split into mainboard and sideboard categories, especially the instants category. Splitting for mainboard and sideboard is much more useful than splitting for card types; people do not come to this thread to learn that mana leak is an instant, they want to know whether to mainboard or sideboard it. On that subject, the primer could use a paragraph on why 2 mana counterspells are generally clunky in Merfolk.
As Nikachu_ mentioned, a lot of these cards are main or sideboard worthy depending on context. I'll have to think about how I want to organize this, but
-It is not apparent in the current list that Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge are almost exclusively sideboard cards. You're also putting personal preference before results here with "tec edge is 'still' a good sideboard card (but honestly just run ghost quarter)" whilst the vast majority of experienced players and top8 results show that Tectonic Edge is prefered. Make the primer represent what the results represent, not what you personally prefer.
Very fair. I'll try to present more of an unbiased look at that sort of thing.
-Cavern of Souls needs a piece about why only running 1-2 is preferred and why more is generally wrong. The cards downsides aren't always as apparent to new players.
Strong suggestion here, though I'm in the "run 4 Caverns" camp. It goes back to presenting a more unbiased look at the deck.
-Serum Visions and Aquitect's Will should not be mentioned at all.
I mentioned them because they were brought up in the old thread's discussion recurrently, but I guess that's not being well received either. Fair enough.
-I'm sorry but the splash category is just really bad. It should not just be a list of cards that are that splash's color. The splash category should primarily tell what that color brings and why you might want to splash it (white for sideboard and because it's the only valid one, black for hand disruption, red for reach and green because you really really like simic). After that it should give some noteworthy card suggestions and why to run it; You mention Nameless Inversion, explain why it serves no purpose and is bad, then suggest to run 2? I'm being really critical here but it's in good intent, if you want I'd be willing to rewrite the splash summary myself.
I see what you're saying here - I'll try to reinforce the fact that mono-U is the most competitive version of the deck, and try to streamline the list of suggested cards.
EDIT: CoBTyrannon hits the nail on the head. The primer should be much more straightforward "play this" and go much more in-depth instead of mentioning all these very questionable options. A primer functions to give a solid baseline for new players, not as a brew discussion ground for experienced players.
Probably true. I likely spread myself too thin by trying to address potential answers before the questions themselves came.
This looks like the start of a good primer. I do feel that the 2+ recommendation for Cavern of Souls is too ambitious considering our need for blue mana for interaction. I thing a better recommendation would be 1-2 instead.
I've been running 4 with little to no ill effects. I think the minimum is 2, honestly. Counterspells in Modern are not as plentiful as they once were, but that will probably change with Twin's resurgence.
Being on the draw against Jund is clever. I'll have to try that out myself as well.
Thanks for the feedback, Cody_X. I'll try to edit the entries to more specifically mention how to fit certain cards into the deck. I'll also tackle budget options in a separate section, but I'm frankly somewhat inexperienced in the topic. I've always proxied and built a "full-strength" deck over running a budget version of it. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on building budget Merfolk.
It's been pretty straightforward for me. It always tends to be a tight match, but Merfolk win more often than not. That's backed up by some MTGGoldfish data (which is unfortunately no longer available, but is summarized here). As with Burn, a resolved Master of Waves tends to be game over. Decks that rely on 1-for-1s tend to struggle against decks that present more threats than they have removal, and that's certainly the case for Merfolk vs. Jund.
Please, for the love of god don't copy the formatting of the old Primer! it is straining, overloaded and simply unpractical. Just listing everything and adding 1-2 sentences helps no one. We wouldn't need a new Primer leaving it like that :/
Could you clarify what you mean by this? I think a list of the available options is one of the first steps in making a new primer. Of course, I'm adding some stuff in addition to that (see the Matchup and Sideboarding guide, which has all of Tier 1 and will hopefully have Tier 2 soon), but I don't see much of an alternative to stuff being in there. I tried to add a bit more depth by color-coding and saying how many copies of a card should be run, but at the end of the day there are only so many ways to skin this cat.
Given that the deck is capable of T4 kills, I'd consider it to be pretty fast. Its gameplan is to beat face and win, and most of the time it's trying to do so as fast as possible. Merfolk only looks to slow the pace down against decks that are even faster than it is. I can definitely rejigger the opening description to focus more on versatility, though.
With regards to this whole U Devotion thing brought up by FANAttIC... I'm in agreement with CoBTyrannon in that it detracts from the Merfolk discussion. Additionally, in terms of raw power, I find that deck to be a tad lacking when compared to something like Merfolk, and I'm not sure that it's a "people haven't tried to do this!" issue. It's a deck that needs synergy to be potent, but would be actively skipping out on the pump synergy from Merfolk Lords, which is more powerful than anything else you could come up with in U for an aggressive strategy. The reason why U Devotion doesn't exist in Modern is because taking its best pieces (Master of Waves, maybe Thassa, God of the Sea) and jamming them into the Merfolk shell results in a stronger deck.
Additionally, I'd like to announce that the Budget Options, Æther Vial uses, and Tier 2 matchups sections are now complete. I'll soon add Cody_X's example of a budget deck, as well as matchup information for other named decks. Barring any other suggestions, the primer will then be complete. I'd appreciate feedback on anything that's currently up.
1. I think that Modern is a good deck to learn the format with. You'll get exposure to the way a lot of things work, since Merfolk uses creatures, spells, and noncreature permanents, and has a variety of matchups where sideboarding judiciously is often the difference between a win and a loss.
2. I think it's a good deck to grow with, otherwise I wouldn't have volunteered to take over the primer. It's got nice interaction, and is nuanced in terms of playing and deckbuilding, especially the sideboard. I've been playing it for a long time now, and I still agonize over what I have in my board.
3. Merfolk is good because it's a deck that can beat face fast, or beat face gradually while disrupting your opponent. We have game against pretty much everybody, though the easiest matchups are U-based control and midrange decks. As far as the most entertaining matchups go, I like playing against Burn or Zoo for the fast-and-furious "the race is on" kind of feel, and against Jund or Abzan for the blow-for-blow "chess match" kind of game.
4. It's mostly Affinity and Elves. Combo decks like Amulet Bloom and Grishoalbrand can be annoying at times, especially if your counterspell package is not deep, but they can be overcome once you sideboard. This is why cards like Spell Pierce, Negate, and Unified Will are important.
5. Merfolk is pretty resilient to sideboard hate. Sweepers like Anger of the Gods, Engineered Explosives, and especially Supreme Verdict hurt, but they can be played around. I'd say the ones that suck the most are Boil and Choke, but if you have an Æther Vial and/or a board state, you can win through them. I'd say artifacts like Ensnaring Bridge, enchantments like the aforementioned Choke, and hexproof creatures (or a mass of creatures) are the hardest to deal with once they're on the table, but in general we can answer pretty much anything (one of the major perks of the deck tbh).
6. Hibernation is used to get the tempo back on your side. If your opponent is Elves and they have 8 dudes on the table by turn 4 (not uncommon), Hibernation forces them to start over, which either gives you the opening you need to swing for lethal, saves you from them swinging for lethal, or buys you the time you need to finish them off. It also does well against Zoo (since most of those creatures are also G). Given that Elves is an exceptionally tough matchup, it makes for a good sideboard option.
Dismember is used as necessary. One of the nicer plays you can use it for (in my opinion) is to kill mana dorks in order to slow your opponent's start. If your opponent's creature count is low, then you can hold it for a specific target (like Tasigur, the Golden Fang, for example). We use it mostly because U doesn't have much true removal (the fact that we don't otherwise lose life from our own cards is a bonus).
The reason why most decks don't use that many instants is because we have creatures (like Cursecatcher and Harbinger of the Tides) that have effects similar to instants, so we can afford to pack in more dudes. Incidentally, the existence of Harbinger is the reason why Vapor Snag has seen a dip in play - we can get a similar effect and get a body as a bonus.
7. I should have bought it up earlier. I kind of durdled on some of the purchases, and had to spend more money because of it. This deck is never getting banned, and never going out of style.
I think that we are even with Jund at the worst. I agree with you on the cards that I fear the most, and those are cards that my Jund opponents never, ever side out. I do not use Dismember, though it woudl be nice here. I also bring in Tidebinder Mage off the board. Most Jund decks (that I know of) play a Olivia Voldaren in there somewhere.
Honestly, the biggest key in this matchup might be whether you're running 8-Seas or not (as steven11788 noted). If you're on 8-Seas, you're definitely favored. Otherwise, it's trickier to say.
Also, just wanted to say that I've made some pretty extensive editing based on the feedback I've received. Some things are still under construction (notably the section for budget alternatives and how to use Æther Vial), but I'd like to know what you guys think of the new layout.
That's a good point, I'll pull some art from the Internet to try and break up the wall.
Thanks for the link, I'll put you up on the list on the first page.
This seems to be a contentious opinion. Some people (and the large-scale match data from MTGGoldfish) have come out in support of it being favorable, others have it pegged as more 50:50. I'll have to think about how to address this section going forward.
This is very good advice. I'll make some changes to make the primer more directed and newbie-friendly.
Not sure what this is supposed to contribute, to be honest. You have such high standards that you can't meet them yourself? Doesn't sound like this will lead to productive discussion (though on the other hand you've had some very good comments).
This is a huge suggestion. HUGE. I need to write a section on how to use Vial appropriately.
This comment confuses me. Are you referring to new players spouting off on the thread? Or are you referring to me? Because I've been playing Merfolk for quite a while. I might not have been on this particular forum until recently, but I have a pretty good amount of reps with the deck. As for the last part... thanks for the condescension, bro. Really helpful.
Duly noted, I'll put some work in to refine the primer into something more directed.
Yeah, it doesn't look like those are being well-received. I think I'll cut them.
Fair. Blurting out all of the options hasn't been well-received, either.
As Nikachu_ mentioned, a lot of these cards are main or sideboard worthy depending on context. I'll have to think about how I want to organize this, but
Very fair. I'll try to present more of an unbiased look at that sort of thing.
Strong suggestion here, though I'm in the "run 4 Caverns" camp. It goes back to presenting a more unbiased look at the deck.
I mentioned them because they were brought up in the old thread's discussion recurrently, but I guess that's not being well received either. Fair enough.
I see what you're saying here - I'll try to reinforce the fact that mono-U is the most competitive version of the deck, and try to streamline the list of suggested cards.
Probably true. I likely spread myself too thin by trying to address potential answers before the questions themselves came.
Thanks, very helpful.
Based on what I've seen here, I'm thinking I'll address the feedback in the following ways:
This might take a bit of time, but I'll get to work on it as soon as I can. Thanks for the feedback, everyone.
I've been running 4 with little to no ill effects. I think the minimum is 2, honestly. Counterspells in Modern are not as plentiful as they once were, but that will probably change with Twin's resurgence.
Thanks for the feedback, Cody_X. I'll try to edit the entries to more specifically mention how to fit certain cards into the deck. I'll also tackle budget options in a separate section, but I'm frankly somewhat inexperienced in the topic. I've always proxied and built a "full-strength" deck over running a budget version of it. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on building budget Merfolk.
Could you clarify what you mean by this? I think a list of the available options is one of the first steps in making a new primer. Of course, I'm adding some stuff in addition to that (see the Matchup and Sideboarding guide, which has all of Tier 1 and will hopefully have Tier 2 soon), but I don't see much of an alternative to stuff being in there. I tried to add a bit more depth by color-coding and saying how many copies of a card should be run, but at the end of the day there are only so many ways to skin this cat.