Worldgorger Dragon is a fun card but I imagine people will accidentally discover the Draw part of it and cause problems. As much as I want to use it in Reanimator it's not a card that will change the board state or the flow of the game in my favor, so what if its a 7/7 Flying Trample and happens to hide my permanents. Or we will see Four Horsemen like decks causing Judges to groan.
With TC being banned though maybe RUG Delver will see an uptick again, though I really don't miss playing the deck that actively prevents your opponent from playing Magic.
Treasure Cruise had a high penetration rate in decks, I can finally start using Jund again and going back to 1 for 1ing people. Worldgorger Dragon is back, I can do my silly combos to get back in the game.
Oh its good to be in Legacy!
*sees the modern banlist*
Man that blows. Modern's metagame already feels forced but banning Pod seems harsh, wish they found another way. I have that deck built too ;/
I've always thought about building Miracles but never got around to finishing it. As the deck really punishes someone for lack of experience with the deck and format, I put the deck on the backburner for construction. After a bit of experience, I think I want to try out the deck finally.
This is the deck I can currently build with what I have, all I need to do is just buy 4 Counterbalance:
I'm sure there are better lists out there but for only spending roughly $40 isn't so bad. I can't really justify another Jace and Cliques right now so I tried to come up with alternative methods.
The singleton Elspeth came from an idea during a match with a friend (Jund vs Miracles). I casted slaughter games on his entreat, pithing needle'd his jaces, and extirpated his council's judgement I eventually won since he got milled out. Also, trying to find a home for my Elspeth since Stax isn't so strong.
The past two weeks at my LGS I've been having extremely strong performances at the LGS I've been at. 3-1-0 and 3-0-1 all giving me Top 8/Top 4 Contention. I'm sorta at a happy equilibrium with my decklist at the moment.
Decks I've faced:
UWR Delver
MUD
Burn (I refuse to lose to this matchup, this was the reason I built reanimator is to crap on this deck every single time)
Miracles
UR Delver
Elves
Affinity
Mono-R Sneak
12 Post
TES
To be honest Daze has been a dead card for me I've rarely casted it only to pitch it to Force. Misdirection I never get to cast either but there are times where if I had it in my hand it would have been crippling. But I'm hesitant to cut Daze for Petals/Dark Rituals as it lowers my blue spell count.
@Stryfo you have a Badlands in there, is that for EE or to hardcast Keranos?
Two cards I'd love to be unbanned in Legacy are: Worldgorger Dragon and Mind's Desire. I'd love to use Worldgorger again to just keep looping mana to kill someone with Oona, Queen of the Fae or something silly like that, but the potential of it causing forced draws I understand why it's banned.
In meta's with Miracles I've experimented with extirpates, null rods, and slaughter games.
Null Rod is also really good in Blade matchups where their equips become useless.
Slaughter Games is pretty slow but I use it since the meta in my playgroup is pretty defined so it acts as a silver bullet for me. Null rod+Pithing Needle on Jace is pretty brutal for them.
I'm on the fence with boarding out discard vs them, it ends up being a balance of trimming burn and discard.
Because I am insane and like testing new things, I have been trying a Keranos in my board. Before you go off and tell me how crazy it is, think about this:
3) If you don't have 7 U/R devotion (lol) you can reanimate it through containment priest (or so the head judge at the SCG told me after double checking himself).
Clearly Keranos is not the best creature to get in a lot of situations (in addition to the obvious, you cannot use animate dead on it to much effect), but having access to one to entomb for seems like a big advantage if containment priest is the card you are playing around, plus a lot of the decks that play the priest have a few problems with infinite bolts on their dudes (or to their face).
Having only played it in two events, the scg in seattle which I got smashed in (not due to keranos, but bad pairings and the opponents always having everything) and a weekly, I am not 100% sold, but it has been very good so far. Just the next piece of technology I am willing to throw out there for anyone interested in trying new things.
You lucky bastard lol.
I was testing against UWR Miracles with some new cards. The dude had a Keranos that...actually was a creature due to Clique, Jace, and a bunch of Snapcasters. I had a Blazing Archon, Pithing Needle on Jace, Containment Priest (four turns too late lol). The main thing was I was testing Sheoldred, Whispering One but I never read the card and assumed it was an edict effect along with Debtor's Knell, little did I know due to lack of reading its just an edict with a reanimate effect on my OWN yard only.
Due to lack of Judges at the store, no one knew what to do. And the consensus was to rewind the game and not allow me to cast reanimate on his Keranos.
Another card I was testing was Sigarda, Host of Herons I use the card in Pod in Modern as a response to edict effects there. In Legacy normally against edict effects I would go instantly for Grave Titan as it's a faster clock and generates tokens to get past edicts but I've been dealing with this guy playing Junk/Deadguy Ale so he has both Chainer's Edict and Swords to Plowshares. My normal out of Empyrial Archangel isn't enough as it gets edicted, and with his mana ramp the flashback cost is actually doable. In a SCG meta I'd probably stick to Grave Titan.
This happened at the shop a while back. LED Dredge was becoming a bit of a nuisance so people started packing maindeck graveyard hate and most of the dredge players left. This new guy comes to the shop with manaless dredge because he was able to afford legacy and the poor guy for the next 4 rounds is on the receiving end of grafdigger's cages, leyline of the voids, and the newly printed rest in peace. When he faced me he was like: "What no turn 1 pithing needle?!" I responded with a turn 2 Elesh Norn, the poor guy just wrote on the slip and left.
He came back two weeks later with burn and did pretty well.
A friend of mine I play with usually does Miracles so I had a deck purely meant to go after him with null rods, slaughter games, extirpate, and surgicals. When he caught on I modified my Jund deck specifically to deal with his he added Baneslayer Angel. I don't see Sigarda in Legacy at my area except for when I used it as a SB card vs BUG Delver, it's a great card in modern though.
Smokestack and Baneslayer Angel are cards I want to find a new home for since Dutch Stax isn't competitive anymore. I've thought of Lands for Smokestack and Junk/Nic Fit/Miracles for Baneslayer.
For the Maverick matchup I think it will come down to whoever is the better pilot of their deck ultimately. But preboarding Jund is stronger as all the cards aren't dead, unless it's the damn Dark Maverick version I hate Marit Lage my current build does not run Imperial Edict.
Another random thought. Even with all this burn/UR Delver around you'd think Bob would last a little longer on the field. He is still the biggest bolt/plow magnet ever! For that reason I hesitate to cut him to 3. I'm more willing to trim a goyf for a goblin rabblemaster/Scooze than Bob.
[quote from="Mad Mat »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/aggro/179839-deck-jund?comment=969"]
I played Jund for over a year (awhile ago) and felt like I was a decent pilot with overall pretty good results at tourneys, but I've had to move to another deck (UW Miracles) because I was so sick of losing what I thought were "favored" match-ups. No doubt Punishing Fire is a house against Delver decks, but when they can refill their hand for one blue mana you have a problem. Jund thrives when we can attrition decks out, but to refill for such a cheap cost really negates a lot of what we do.
True-Name being printed didn't help, but Jund survived. I'm not sure it can thrive in a format with TNN, Treasure Cruise, AND Combo. The lack of meaningful results in any major tournaments would seem to agree.
On a related note, it made me sad that I was able to win a money tournament last week with Miracles. I hadn't played the deck in any serious manner prior to the tournament, but the deck's power level was so high that I was able to win the whole thing with very little practice. The irony is that Jund is one of Miracles "bad" match-ups...or at least it used to be.
At my local game shop I was able to draw to Top 8 a few weeks ago with Jund something I wasn't able to do with Reanimator for months. Maverick was making a comeback in light of the combo/TC fair decks running around, so I decided to run Jund as a response to that. I still think Miracles is a good matchup for Jund, the last card I can think that was printed that helped Miracles was council's judgement which was one of their only ways to answer a resolved Liliana. Treasure cruise did hit Jund pretty hard as for an attrition deck the last thing you need is your opponent to gas up again, Chains of Meph is way too expensive for other players to even consider.
I'll still keep the deck as a dark horse for when everyone thinks I'm still playing Combo.
Also, how is the 12 Post matchup suppposed to be like? I played against a 12 Post player and we ended on a draw on turns. I stalled for almost 7 turns with Liliana and Imperial edict in response to eldrazi staring me down in the face just to inevitably lose to a hardcasted Emakrul. It seems at a certain point the attrition match is a bad idea.
This will be the first time playing Modern on paper. I'm bringing Tim Rivera's list to GP Baltimore to jam in some side events because I have a strong feeling I'm gonna scrub out of the main event. I'll let you guys know how that works out. If it weren't for DRS's banning I'd be jamming Jund no doubts about it, Jund doesn't feel anything like it's Legacy counterpart so I have less incentive to do so.
How many wall of roots should I be running and what's the consensus of Grave Titan in the SB?
I actually run only 1 Wall of Roots. Grave Titan is a SB card for me in Legacy Reanimator for decks packing edict effects. But in Modern where things like Terminate and Slaughter Pact are prevalent, I'd rather go for the hexproof option that still provides pressure, though not as fast as Grave Titan.
With TC being banned though maybe RUG Delver will see an uptick again, though I really don't miss playing the deck that actively prevents your opponent from playing Magic.
I'm gonna try porting this deck to Legacy now screw it.
Oh its good to be in Legacy!
*sees the modern banlist*
Man that blows. Modern's metagame already feels forced but banning Pod seems harsh, wish they found another way. I have that deck built too ;/
This is the deck I can currently build with what I have, all I need to do is just buy 4 Counterbalance:
2 Pyroblast
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Counterspell
4 Counterbalance
1 Council's Judgment
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
3 Terminus
2 Dig Through Time
1 Mountain
1 Volcanic Island
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
5 Island
1 Flusterstorm
1 Hydroblast
1 Pyroblast
1 Wear // Tear
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Spell Pierce
2 Meddling Mage
3 Rest in Peace
1 Council's Judgment
1 Baneslayer Angel
I'm sure there are better lists out there but for only spending roughly $40 isn't so bad. I can't really justify another Jace and Cliques right now so I tried to come up with alternative methods.
The singleton Elspeth came from an idea during a match with a friend (Jund vs Miracles). I casted slaughter games on his entreat, pithing needle'd his jaces, and extirpated his council's judgement I eventually won since he got milled out. Also, trying to find a home for my Elspeth since Stax isn't so strong.
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Lotus Petal
2 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
1 Animate Dead
2 Daze
4 Exhume
2 Show and Tell
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Flusterstorm
2 Dread of Night
2 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Show and Tell
1 Grave Titan
1 Sire of Insanity
Decks I've faced:
UWR Delver
MUD
Burn (I refuse to lose to this matchup, this was the reason I built reanimator is to crap on this deck every single time)
Miracles
UR Delver
Elves
Affinity
Mono-R Sneak
12 Post
TES
To be honest Daze has been a dead card for me I've rarely casted it only to pitch it to Force. Misdirection I never get to cast either but there are times where if I had it in my hand it would have been crippling. But I'm hesitant to cut Daze for Petals/Dark Rituals as it lowers my blue spell count.
@Stryfo you have a Badlands in there, is that for EE or to hardcast Keranos?
Mind's Desire Card is busted but its so much fun.
So the most likely card to be unbanned is Black Vise, doesn't seem to do much these days. What caused it to be banned originally?
Null Rod is also really good in Blade matchups where their equips become useless.
Slaughter Games is pretty slow but I use it since the meta in my playgroup is pretty defined so it acts as a silver bullet for me. Null rod+Pithing Needle on Jace is pretty brutal for them.
I'm on the fence with boarding out discard vs them, it ends up being a balance of trimming burn and discard.
You lucky bastard lol.
I was testing against UWR Miracles with some new cards. The dude had a Keranos that...actually was a creature due to Clique, Jace, and a bunch of Snapcasters. I had a Blazing Archon, Pithing Needle on Jace, Containment Priest (four turns too late lol). The main thing was I was testing Sheoldred, Whispering One but I never read the card and assumed it was an edict effect along with Debtor's Knell, little did I know due to lack of reading its just an edict with a reanimate effect on my OWN yard only.
Due to lack of Judges at the store, no one knew what to do. And the consensus was to rewind the game and not allow me to cast reanimate on his Keranos.
Another card I was testing was Sigarda, Host of Herons I use the card in Pod in Modern as a response to edict effects there. In Legacy normally against edict effects I would go instantly for Grave Titan as it's a faster clock and generates tokens to get past edicts but I've been dealing with this guy playing Junk/Deadguy Ale so he has both Chainer's Edict and Swords to Plowshares. My normal out of Empyrial Archangel isn't enough as it gets edicted, and with his mana ramp the flashback cost is actually doable. In a SCG meta I'd probably stick to Grave Titan.
He came back two weeks later with burn and did pretty well.
Smokestack and Baneslayer Angel are cards I want to find a new home for since Dutch Stax isn't competitive anymore. I've thought of Lands for Smokestack and Junk/Nic Fit/Miracles for Baneslayer.
For the Maverick matchup I think it will come down to whoever is the better pilot of their deck ultimately. But preboarding Jund is stronger as all the cards aren't dead, unless it's the damn Dark Maverick version I hate Marit Lage my current build does not run Imperial Edict.
Another random thought. Even with all this burn/UR Delver around you'd think Bob would last a little longer on the field. He is still the biggest bolt/plow magnet ever! For that reason I hesitate to cut him to 3. I'm more willing to trim a goyf for a goblin rabblemaster/Scooze than Bob.
At my local game shop I was able to draw to Top 8 a few weeks ago with Jund something I wasn't able to do with Reanimator for months. Maverick was making a comeback in light of the combo/TC fair decks running around, so I decided to run Jund as a response to that. I still think Miracles is a good matchup for Jund, the last card I can think that was printed that helped Miracles was council's judgement which was one of their only ways to answer a resolved Liliana. Treasure cruise did hit Jund pretty hard as for an attrition deck the last thing you need is your opponent to gas up again, Chains of Meph is way too expensive for other players to even consider.
I'll still keep the deck as a dark horse for when everyone thinks I'm still playing Combo.
Also, how is the 12 Post matchup suppposed to be like? I played against a 12 Post player and we ended on a draw on turns. I stalled for almost 7 turns with Liliana and Imperial edict in response to eldrazi staring me down in the face just to inevitably lose to a hardcasted Emakrul. It seems at a certain point the attrition match is a bad idea.
I actually run only 1 Wall of Roots. Grave Titan is a SB card for me in Legacy Reanimator for decks packing edict effects. But in Modern where things like Terminate and Slaughter Pact are prevalent, I'd rather go for the hexproof option that still provides pressure, though not as fast as Grave Titan.
Punishing Jund
Dutch Stax
Burn
UB/UBg Reanimator
Some form of Sneak and Show
R/W and Mono-R Painter
Fluctuator
Show-n-Draw
TES
Jund, TES, Fluctuator, Painter, Burn, and Reanimator are all sleeved up ready to go.