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  • posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)
    Well. Silumgar's Command is spoiled.

    3UB Instant

    Choose two:
    • Counter target noncreature spell
    • Return target permanent to its owner's hand
    • Target creature gets -3/-3 until end of turn
    • Destroy target planeswalker
    5 mana hurts, as does the lack of a draw option. Counter and boomerang are relevant but the counter is worse than the one on Cryptic.

    The -3/-3 hits a limited set of targets; it doesn't hit Goyf (most of the time), Rhino, or Deceiver Exarch, but it does hit Bob, Pestermite, and anything in Infect not named Spellskite (although, 5 mana vs infect can be tough). People tend to sideboard their Disfigures, so that says something about how much this actually hits.

    Killing a planeswalker is of questionable utility. If you let a Liliana slip through you can stop her from completely wrecking you, but aside from that there are few planeswalkers that see play. Killing Jace with this is alright, but you're probably stuck picking Boomerang as the second mode. The best target for this mode is probably Chandra, Pyromaster, simply because she doesn't go down easily to bolt and she's recurring card advantage.

    I think UWx control got the better deal with Ojutai's Command. The lack of a draw option really, really sucks on this one.

    Also, it occurs to me that every command so far has been a different CMC. Maybe Kolaghan's Command will be 1BR and Dromoka's Command will be 4WG.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)
    I tuned in just in time to watch game 3 of that series.

    I didn't catch who the second player was (I came into this thread after watching it), but was it Phil Gallagher? What I saw in game 3 seems consistent with the SCG list posted above.

    I really like the list, especially the mainboard Keranos, and I think it's great that Tasigur is giving life to previously underplayed decks.

    The other list, with Liliana and Olivia Voldaren, feels more like a jund-like midrange deck than what I tend to expect from blue control decks. I don't mean to say it's bad, but Lili in particular makes it seem like it would play really differently than the othe rlist. It's also got its sideboard mixed in, but I think it shouldn't be too hard to pick out what's sideboard material. Blood Moon, Engineered Explosives, Combust, Flashfreeze, Deathmark, Shatterstorm, Slaughter Games are the obvious ones, but that leaves 5 slots. Negate and Dispel maybe? The deck runs enough islands that Shackles seems plausible in maindeck, so maybe Vendilion Clique is in the side.

    The list looks like the control experience I'm looking for, but Cryptic and Snap shot up while I wasn't looking, and I thought they were expensive at $20.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
  • posted a message on [Single Card Discussion] Modern viability of Pack Rat?
    Wow, I had no idea Pack Rat was Legacy playable. It looks like the deck is fueled largely by the power of Liliana and the synergy between her and Pack Rat. Now that we get Bitterblossom, that deck might be suited for a port into modern. Replace Jitte with a Sword (Light and Shadow? Feast and Famine? No idea), replace DRS with something, and figure out what to do about Chrome Mox. Contamination is also an absolute beast that has no ready replace in modern.

    I think splashing White for Lingering Souls could be good, and having three kinds of tokens makes the deck less vulnerable to Maelstrom Pulse. Maybe add a Life from the Loam package?
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [Primer] Esper Zur
    Deitel: I mean that Spreading Seas isn't effective unless it's run as a 3 or 4-of, and since Phoenix's list no longer maindecks Spreading Seas, I don't think it's worth it as a sideboard option because it would take up too much room. I don't know whether or not it would still be good to maindeck it, though the aggro decks are an important consideration.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Esper Zur
    Regarding Abrupt Decay, our best out to it is probably Spellskite.

    So the current list is heavier on hand disruption? It seems pretty reasonable, and helpful for the matchup against control or Tron. Meddling Mage seems reasonable against Tron (naming Pyroclasm or Firespout). I take it Zur is fetching Bitterblossom most of the time now? (I'd like to point out that Bitterblossom's price is falling fast. TCGplayer low is now closer to 50).

    The list looks a bit weird, probably because it differs so much from the more recent lists, but I recognize the ideas from earlier in the thread and everything looks sound, at least in theory.

    I'm wondering what your sideboard looks like, even though that may be premature with the meta just getting shaken up.

    I have a few guesses for contenders in the future format:

    Zoo (Naya, Gruul splashing White, Domain Zoo all come to mind):
    2 Kitchen Finks like older lists, and then maybe more cards if that doesn't do the job.

    Faeries post-bitterblossom: Mistbind Clique is a beating if it shows up before Zur or Geist does. Anything that gives multiple creatures -toughness will cause them problems. Do we want to be strange and run Orzhov Pontiff, or Zealous Persecution?
    Admittedly, -toughness effects aren't foolproof. Mistbind Clique, Sower of Temptation, and Mutavault survive, as do other faeries if there are at least 2 Scion of Oona. But, we might not even have to worry about Sower or Scion. There are lists being thrown around that use only Vendilion Clique, Mistbind Clique, and Spellstuter SPrite as their creatures.


    Jund/Junk: Even without DRS, the goodstuff deck will still exist in some form. The same stuff that was good against them before is still good against them now.

    Tron: Making room for Tectonic edge and Mindcensor in the main goes a long way for the matchup, but I don't know what else we could do besides try to Thoughtseize and Geist early. Spreading Seas is no longer an option for us. Also, what does Far/Away do vs Tron? Is it just creature bounces for us, and a reliable way to kill Emrakul? I suppose that's good enough to warrant inclusion, but I want confirmation that I'm looking at it right.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono-U Ninja Bear Delver
    Dasuri, you're right. The list has been growing more similar to regular UR Delver. The primary difference between them is the draw power from Ninja and its interaction with T1 bear or unflipped Delver. This plus Electrolyze lets the deck draw more cards than other UR Delver lists, which means that it can run Cryptic Command off 20 lands even while UR Delver can't run it off 22 (though admittedly UR Delver uses 2 more Mutavaults than this deck). The deck also runs Electrolyze and dares to side Wurmcoil Engine, as it tries to hedge its bets on the late game instead of being a straight tempo deck like regular UR Delver.

    I'd say that the distinction between this deck and UR Delver is similar to the difference between All-in UR Splinter Twin and UR Tempo Twin. The decks have similar ideas behind them, but they play differently. Whether or not this version is overshadowed by Spellstutter UR Delver, or whether this deserves its own thread, are not issues I feel qualified to comment on.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Esper Zur
    Bitterblossom seams good as a turn 2 play that isn't just durdling. It fills a similar role to what Lingering Souls currently does.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [[BNG]] DailyMTG Previews 1/21: Whelming Wave, Phenax, Hero of Leina Tower
    Mill provides information, nothing more. It's not as if milling them for 7 gives you 7 cards worth of advantage, because those were not cards they had in their hand or on the field. If you, for example, hit 2 detention sphere while milling for some number, you now know your opponent is less likely to have sphere in their hand right now, and you now have to play around at most 2 copies of sphere. This is pretty valuable, but it only makes a difference vs control decks, because aggro decks have a lot of redundancy (any big creature is good enough to kill you with).

    Phenax doesn't provide free mill, since you have invested mana in whatever creatures or walls you're using.

    Ashiok and Phenax are very different. Phenax is a 5-drop that requires field presence to start milling. Ashiok is a 3-drop threatens to generate advantage by putting creatures on the field vs an aggro deck, and threatens to ult to generate advantage vs a control deck. I have won games off his mill, but his primary role is to be a target for creatures and removal while I draw into more control cards. I would probably not play Ashiok if his only ability were "+2: Mill 5" and he lost his other abilities.

    The Phenax mill deck requires a lot of bad cards, but that's also what happened to Thassa, Master of Waves, and their merry band of draft rejects. Going all-in on the mill and ramp strategy is an idea, as is going all-in as a defender-based combo deck, with 4 copies of Elite Arcanist, Triton Tactics, and Hidden Strings. It's probably not a good idea, but the cards are there. We could also run Esper colors for Alms Beast, or just go 4-color not-red with ramp and Kruphix.

    Phenax enabling inspiration is pretty much worthless. We already have Springleaf Drum, and in anything but a dedicated mill deck, I'd run Springleaf Drum instead of Phenax. Don't forget that Springleaf Drum can tap summoning-sick creatures.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [[BNG]] DailyMTG Previews 1/21: Whelming Wave, Phenax, Hero of Leina Tower
    I'm not sure how playable Phenax will be. The wall/mill deck has some potential, but there are also some problems in its matchups. The list posted in the reveal article is an okay start, but it basically needs a better control shell for it to survive long enough to win by mill, while also protecting its win conditions. There's also the problem that you need at least 2 creatures for Phenax to mill faster than just a Jace. It takes about 15 toughness for mill to compete with Aetherling as a clock (Aetherling swinging for 8 is a 3-turn clock; 15 toughness is a 3 turn clock if you can start milling that hard on turn 5).

    Incidentally, Devour Flesh is great if you're trying to win by mill alone. All the creatures also survive Drown in Sorrow, so that's an option vs smaller creatures.


    Mill is normally strong against control, but this mill requires a ton of creatures, who incidentally all die to Last Breath. It may be able to steal games when the control player doesn't want to cast Verdict to hit a bunch of unthreatening walls, but that only works for game 1. The life gain from Last Breath or Devour Flesh will keep the deck alive for a while, but the deck can't slow down control's finishers. Jace Memory Adept can kill control like usual, and is probably the primary win-con here. The deck needs counterspells to make sure Jace and Phenax don't get Sphered. This deck is also vulnerable to Aetherling, so a handful of counterspells are necessary.

    Green decks have Mistcutter Hydra, and GW Aggro has Skylasher. You're in good shape if you can hit every Mistcutter with removal. These decks could side the new Deglamer reprint to hit Phenax. GW Aggro has Banisher Priest to try to clear a path, while GR Aggro's planeswalkers and Stormbreath Dragon make the defense plan problematic (the only flying wall is hover barrier). Xenagos can flood the field with Satyrs, while Domri can pump out an emblem if left unthreatened, or he can have a creature fight the wall he was blocked by, doing enough damage to kill it. If Xenagos sees play in god form, he can also pump some creatures big enough to just run over the walls.

    Mono-Black can fly over with Desecration Demon (only blocked by Hover Barrier). Pack Rat takes a while to ball out of control, but it also should be removed early. Relying so heavily on Phenax (his mill is easily 2, often 3x as much as Doorkeeper gives) makes this deck vulnerable to Thoughtseize.

    White Weenie, depending on variant, has limited options. It basically has to win before Phenax hits the field, since only the blue splash has a way of dealing with him. Ajani can try to pump things big enough that the walls can't block, but that takes too long. White Weenie will probably force some damage through early, since they can dump their hand faster than mill can put up walls, and then it's kind of a waiting game for Brave the Elements.

    Mono-Blue can hit a good aggro draw, fly over with its zoo of flying creatures, or make things unblockable with Thassa. Phenax can be answered by Gainsay post-board.

    Here's an idea. What's a card that slows down aggro decks, slows down Desecration Demon, and provides chump blockers every turn? We could try Akroan Horse. It won't be milling for us, but the supply of tokens could be useful, especially considering that every other creature is blue, so only the soldiers can chump a miscutter.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [[BNG]] ChannelFireball - Reap What is Sown
    I remember an SCG where a featured match in the early rounds involved a GW heroic deck with Fabled Hero and Fencing Ace, triggered using Common Bond.

    This seems like it could help, though I think it's unlikely to push that deck over the top in anything but block, for the time being.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [Primer] Esper Zur
    Well, Zur's paper price just spiked again.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Deck] W/B equipment toolbox
    Lingering Souls are also good creatures for the cost.

    Sword of Body and Mind is probably the worst of the swords. Its effect is alright, but it isn't as large of an impact as lifegain or drawing cards.

    O-Naginata is win-more, since you'd need to equip something else onto a creature, and you're very well off if you can stick an equipment on something.

    You may want your own removal cards, namely Path to Exile. You're running white, so might as well add it. It might be worthwhile to cut back on how many of each sword you're running, since Steelshaper's gift is essentially extra copies of those swords.

    Liliana of the Veil doesn't do anything useful for you unless you run Lingering Souls, in which case discarding Lingering Souls still lets you cast it. On T3, I'd rather be casting a sword and gearing up to equip it. Sword of Light and Shadow does let you recover cards, and Squadron Hawk is easy discard fodder, but I'm not sure how useful those interactions actually are over running additional beefy creatures. If it's been working out for you, keep it as it is.

    Try Mirran Crusader. Equipping Sword of War and Peace on it grants protection from 4 colors, including both Path and Bolt, plus double strike. Sword of Ice and Fire also makes it protected from 4 colors, but blue isn't a common removal color outside of Into the Roil or Vapor Snag. Auriok Champion also gets protection from two colors, which is good, but that protection overlaps with every sword except Body and Mind.

    For the sideboard, Spellskite is probably a good idea, to redirect artifact destruction. You'll also want some sort of enchantment or artifact hate (like Disenchant) to hit stuff like Damping Matrix or Stony Silence. Erase costs less than Disenchant, but only hits enchantments. Your call on that one.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Deck] Budget UB Faeries
    Essence Scatter is playable, but is probably better in the sideboard, if at all. You have enough game vs creatures between your bounce and removal.

    Agony Warp isn't great. In most cases Dismember is better, since the -3 to power isn't generally relevant.

    Into the Roil is playable, but it's just alright if you're not paying the kicker, and 4 mana is still a bit expensive.

    For draw, you generally want draw stapled to another effect since you're more of an aggro deck. Telling Time is decent. The UR version of Faeries plays electrolyze for their draw. If you want a draw effect, Into the Roil is probably best.

    Your land is fine for playing on a budget. A cheap addition is Darkslick Shores (cut mostly basic swamps)
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    Cipher: I think I like that list, even though it looks unfamiliar next to a lot of other lists. No Sphinx's Rev, and Telling Time over Think Twice. But, two planeswalkers, and Colonnade look like they would still be plenty strong for the late game. Geist runs 4 of a more straightforward clock, but the walkers don't fold to Pyroclasm.

    Electrolyze is what makes UWR good against creature decks, so I'd guess the lack of Rev and maindeck Verdict don't hurt the deck's good matchups too much, and digging gets the wincons online for a faster overall clock. The gameplan makes sense, though it's honestly more like something I'd see out of Geist decks.

    How's this doing in testing? Do you tap out for a planeswalker early, or do you try to leave up Spell Snare/Mana Leak?

    Does the faster gameplan work well vs Jund as well as Tron? It looks like Mana Leak is more relevant when you're closing out games faster.

    There's the bonus of entertainment value from having Elspeth jump Gideon and swing for 9.

    Edit: On the topic of mana distributions, your list messes with the hypergeometric distribution something awful because Telling Time gives an effect that doesn't translate easily into equations. It's more than draw 1, but it's better or worse than draw 2 depending on what you hit.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Esper Zur
    Well, that's pretty cool.

    On the topic of Lingering Souls, I actually think that's very cool tech. It gives the deck just a bit more game vs aggro and Jund (good card to discard, also stops Edict from being a killer). The tokens can chump vs Affinity or trade vs their X/1's.

    I would definitely not cut the 2 Lingering Souls from the main and side, and the only thing stopping me from trying to force an extra copy into the main is the fact that the list already looks really tight.

    Edit: I watched CalebD's video, and he wound up citing the same reasons for Lingering Souls, although he did also say that the countermagic and the Lingering Souls slot are things he feels unsure about.

    Edit 2: I finished watching the series. Thassa did nothing for him in the one game he did tutor it out since he would have won if he had skipped the tutor, and it never animated. He drew it in the opener in game 1 against RUG delver, where it wasn't a useful card.

    Lingering Souls was alright in the couple of games he did use it, but it didn't stop him from dying to repeated Huntmaster flips.

    Something that would have helped him a lot vs Scapeshift is Vendilion Clique. The 18-to-0 nature of the deck meant that he had to throw a lot of disruption around, and Clique is a good clock stapled to disruption.

    The round 3 loss was against RUG Delver, but until the list gets posted online, we don't know the build for sure, like how many Huntmasters are in the main and side.
    G2 basically looked like someone getting blindsided by a rogue deck, plus a fast draw from delver. Blood Moon basically nailed it in by keeping him off Zur.
    G3, his 7 was trash, and his 6 was mediocre. Drawing into Path was good for him, but Huntmaster turned out to be the bigger threat. Pathing Scooze was probably a mistake.



    I think a good change would be -1 Lingering Souls, -1 Thassa, +2 Vendilion Clique in the main. I agree with running 3 Remand instead of 4 Mana Leak. This deck does nothing if it can't draw one of its creatures, so the draw is handy.

    I'm not sure if Lingering Souls is still worth a spot, over something like an extra Spellskite in the side. If we add Clique to the main, that frees up the Thoughtseize spot in Caleb's side (which got replaced by Path in the MTGO list, apparently). This could be the second Lingering Souls, or additional tech vs aggro decks that are backed by Burn.

    I'm not sure whether CoP: Red or Finks is a better sideboard card in general. Probably Finks, since it's also a creature, and the life is relevant against more than just red decks. Wurmcoil Engine or Batterskull probably come down too late to be useful in this deck. Wurmcoil is sided in the Ninja Bear Delver deck, but that runs a lot more draw, so assembling the mana is more likely.

    One interesting consideration is that Finks and Spellskite together cover all of Lingering Souls' uses except for chumping affinity's fliers. Finks is a good buffer vs aggro, and also gives 2 buffers vs Lili's edict, and doesn't get wiped by Maelstrom Pulse like the tokens do. Spellskite is good vs Jund to redirect Maelstrom Pulse, and also fills a decent role vs Affinity. Only having one in the side seems remiss.

    Speaking of Finks, Breeding Pool is almost certainly the correct choice of green source. Overgrown Tomb is redundant for Deathrite Shaman, and Temple Garden is redundant for Finks.

    So to recap, in the side, I'm suggesting:
    -1 Circle of Protection: Red
    +1 Kitchen Finks

    -1 Thoughtseize
    -1 Lingering Souls
    +2 Flex (Lingering Souls, more Spellskite or Finks, maybe an additional piece of removal like Disfigure. Or just 2 Lingering Souls.)
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
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