Well Merchant Scroll can get you a counterspell, but it probably isn't necesarry. The cages do shut off your snapcasters/yawgwill and tinker for blightsteel. It doesn't shut off tinker completely. You can tinker for part of vault/key, or even the grafdiggers cage itself. Yawgwill isn't exactly a win condition in this deck, although if you resolve it you'll likely be far enough ahead that winning is easy. It doesn't stop your snapcasters from attacking. It's probably the best grave/Oath hate around these days so that's why I suggested it. It also shuts off opposing tinker for blightsteel. I personally think you're better off with it, but again, if you don't like it, it's up to you. The only change I think you really needed, which you made, was the 4th Bob.
You're right about tinkering up one of the pieces of the Vault/Key combo of course.. So the card is far from dead The Blightsteel and YawgWill would be dead though, but some cards need to be sideboarded out after all. I'm still not sure if I will include the grafdigger cages, but I will test playing with them and see how things go.
As for the scroll, I'm really not sure what I would swap for it. I do love my 3 snapcasters and 3 jaces. Snapcaster has so many good flashback targets.. Ancestral, counterspells (extra storm count for flusterstorm as well), lightning bolts, a Yawgwill that was countered, Tinker, tutors, you name it. I once played a demonic tutor for Vault, then flashed it back for the key
Jace is just awesome card advantage and goes very well with the confidants so I don't risk killing myself, especially with more than one confidant on the board.
With Merchant Scroll, I've found that there are a few cards that you can include to build a package for it that are awesome cards on their own anyway:
Fire//Ice - This is my favorite removal spell in the format, you can tap down a Blightsteel Colossus, kill off a utility dude or two, or even tap out a land at the end of your opponent's turn to minimize the risk of them disrupting you during your turn.
Thirst for Knowledge - With the amount of artifacts most Vintage decks tend to run it's quite easy to discard an artifact rather than having to discard two cards, and it can be used to get rid of a Blightsteel Colossus in hand.
Also, don't underestimate the power that tutoring for Force of Will can have - it can force your opponent to wait to find their own disruption if they need to push something through, giving you time to progress with your own game plan.
I hope that helps!
Thank you for the suggestions. I will certainly consider them, but I will have a hard time finding something to swap out in the list Hurkyl's Recall was originally part of my sideboard actually. The Force of Will tutoring is a good point. Since I have to reveal it my opponent will know of it, and possibly wait to drop his win con(s), buying me time.
I think I would play Wheel in that spot. Timetwister would too often let them reuse cards that you'd already dealt with. Wheel will consistently draw more cards than Windfall. Also I don't think I would play a Draw7 in this deck, since I wouldn't want my opponent getting a brand new hand, but if you like the effect, use Wheel.
Second, I'd definitely play a 4th Dark Confidant, and maybe Merchant Scroll. There are a couple options for what you could cut to do that. One, you could cut the Draw7. You could also cut a Snapcaster. Most Grixis Control lists I've seen play 2-3, so it really depends on your taste and how useful you find them. You could also cut a Jace. I think I'd be least likely to do this, since they really are that good, and help minimize damage from your Dark Confidants. If you wanted to add Merchant Scroll as well, I'd probably keep the Snapcasters, and cut the Draw7 and a Jace.
I get your point about the draw 7.. I've had some explosive starts where I almost empty my hand turn 1 and then use it, but that is of course a rare occurence. If I get it late game I could be in a worse spot after casting it.. I'll cut it for a fourth bob then, as I was considering adding a fourth while putting the list together anyway.
As for Merchant Scroll, I have thought about it but I concluded it wasn't worth including since its only really good target is Ancestral Recall.. Is it really that good to include it?
Morppi: I appreciate your advice. I can see your points, but as d8dk32 wrote the Lightning Bolt is just that much more versatile in what targets it can kill. Pyroclasm will kill my own Dark Confidants and Snapcaster Mages, so I am unsure if I should include it.. Could go in the sideboard though for matchups with lots bobs and snapcasters. You are on to something with the artifact destruction and blue hate though, definitely sideboard material I'll also take Engineered Explosives under consideration.
d8dk32: Sideboard suggestions look good, but I was thinking about Grafdigger's Cage. Wont this shut down my Snapcaster Mages, Yawgmoth's Will and my Tinker? Without those, I'm running dangerously low on win conditions.. I guess I could destroy my own cage before using them, but I'm not sure how efficient that is.. Unless I'm missing something?
I have editied the list a bit with suggestions and will consider the others more. Thanks!
I'm a long time lurker, recently registered.. This forum has lots of interesting threads Just to mention it, I am new to competitive Vintage and this is my first powered deck.
I have a Grixis control deck which I am fairly pleased with, but I thought I'd post it here and ask you guys if you would change anything with it, and if so why? Any tips on good sideboard material would also be greatly appreciated
I can not take credit for this decklist. While I did put together most of it, I also got inspired by some decks I found online (and I guess it's pretty generic).
I've been considering Timetwister instead of Windfall.. While Timetwister is an excellent card I wonder if the part where my graveyard is shuffled back often could be a drawback, considering I lose some of the advantage that can be gained with the snapcasters and Yawgmoth's Will. I'm also considering Wheel of Fortune for the spot.. What do you guys think?
You're right about tinkering up one of the pieces of the Vault/Key combo of course.. So the card is far from dead
As for the scroll, I'm really not sure what I would swap for it. I do love my 3 snapcasters and 3 jaces. Snapcaster has so many good flashback targets.. Ancestral, counterspells (extra storm count for flusterstorm as well), lightning bolts, a Yawgwill that was countered, Tinker, tutors, you name it. I once played a demonic tutor for Vault, then flashed it back for the key
Jace is just awesome card advantage and goes very well with the confidants so I don't risk killing myself, especially with more than one confidant on the board.
Thank you for the suggestions. I will certainly consider them, but I will have a hard time finding something to swap out in the list
I get your point about the draw 7.. I've had some explosive starts where I almost empty my hand turn 1 and then use it, but that is of course a rare occurence. If I get it late game I could be in a worse spot after casting it.. I'll cut it for a fourth bob then, as I was considering adding a fourth while putting the list together anyway.
As for Merchant Scroll, I have thought about it but I concluded it wasn't worth including since its only really good target is Ancestral Recall.. Is it really that good to include it?
Morppi: I appreciate your advice. I can see your points, but as d8dk32 wrote the Lightning Bolt is just that much more versatile in what targets it can kill. Pyroclasm will kill my own Dark Confidants and Snapcaster Mages, so I am unsure if I should include it.. Could go in the sideboard though for matchups with lots bobs and snapcasters. You are on to something with the artifact destruction and blue hate though, definitely sideboard material
d8dk32: Sideboard suggestions look good, but I was thinking about Grafdigger's Cage. Wont this shut down my Snapcaster Mages, Yawgmoth's Will and my Tinker? Without those, I'm running dangerously low on win conditions.. I guess I could destroy my own cage before using them, but I'm not sure how efficient that is.. Unless I'm missing something?
I have editied the list a bit with suggestions and will consider the others more. Thanks!
I'm a long time lurker, recently registered.. This forum has lots of interesting threads
I have a Grixis control deck which I am fairly pleased with, but I thought I'd post it here and ask you guys if you would change anything with it, and if so why? Any tips on good sideboard material would also be greatly appreciated
I can not take credit for this decklist. While I did put together most of it, I also got inspired by some decks I found online (and I guess it's pretty generic).
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Time Vault
1x Voltaic Key
Sorcery (4):
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Time Walk
1x Tinker
1x Yawgmoth's Will
Creature (8):
1x Blightsteel Colossus
4x Dark Confidant
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
3x Flusterstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Lightning Bolt
3x Mana Drain
2x Mental Misstep
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
Land (16):
2x Island
1x Library of Alexandria
3x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Underground Sea
3x Volcanic Island
Planeswalker (3):
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Mental Misstep
1x Mountain
1x Swamp
1x Lightning Bolt
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast
2x Rack and Ruin
2x Pyroclasm
2x Ingot Chewer
I've been considering Timetwister instead of Windfall.. While Timetwister is an excellent card I wonder if the part where my graveyard is shuffled back often could be a drawback, considering I lose some of the advantage that can be gained with the snapcasters and Yawgmoth's Will. I'm also considering Wheel of Fortune for the spot.. What do you guys think?
Any advice on the deck would be great