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  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine spoilers
    Quote from Marl Karx »
    I don't think there is a 2 mana analogue for Tall As A Beanstalk. That'd be very strong unless you were thinking it was an instant. In which case it is overcosted by 2.95 tbh (Giant Growth+reach is only worth marginally more mana than GG)


    I thought there was a 2 cmc Oakenform guess I was wrong
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine spoilers
    So Tiny another one of the flash enchantments that limits a creature's power
    Rosethorn Halberd with the instant equip on entering, but with equip 5 this is in essence a better aura that triggers artifact synergies
    Foreboding Fruit not sure if this is worth it, 3 mana and sorcery speed, we have better options for this effect
    Lochtwain Paladin might be interesting
    Mantle of Tides another one for azorius artifact for Humprhey
    Steelgaze Griffin meh
    Bloodhaze Wolverine this kind of can fit into a spells matters or cycling(if that is a thing) archetype, but I don't really see it
    Tempting Witch I don't know why but I like the card, it is however with a parasitic ability. However having the opportunity to either let the player lose 3 life or gain 3 yourself might make it flexible enough to be worth it.
    Garenbrig Carver both parts overcosted by 1
    Giant's Skewer Over costed by 1 on cost and equip
    Fortifying Provisions Similar to Spidersilk Armor lose reach, get a food token.
    Forever Young I believe we have similar effects that aren't played
    Garenbrig Squire We will not have a critical mass of adventure spells
    Lonesome Unicorn Overcosted by 1 on each mode
    Silverflame Squire Instant side overcosted by 1
    Tuinvale Treefolk overcosted on the sorcery side
    Bartered Cow cute that it has a discard interaction, nothing more though
    Tall as a beanstalk overcosted by 2?
    Barge In looks good to be honest
    Redcap Raiders gives a use to smaller creatures later in the game
    Mistford River Turtle might be interesting since it gives true evasion to a creature
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine spoilers
    A couple of commons have been spoiled already.

    Arcane Signet Not playable here, mentioning for completeness
    Crystal Slipper Repeatable haste effect that also buffs, this could be cube-able
    Eye collector Might be ok for cubes with more graveyard focus, not sure if this is better than for example a Tormented Soul when looking at evasive 1 drops in black.
    Golden Egg Worse than Arcum's Astrolabe and not having the ability to filter more than once puts this behind other filter artifacts.
    Run Away Together Functional reprint of Peel from Reality
    Smitten Swordmaster Not enough playable knights to make the sorcery part relevant. Not a lot of changelings are played in cube either.
    Tome Raider Worse than Cloudkin Seer, but it is a faerie
    Wishful Merfolk The activated cost makes this not worth it.
    Witching Well 5 mana for scry 2, draw 2 is too much.
    Witch's Cottage Could be interesting, does this make a better Mortuary Mire? Better for mono-colored decks and can be searched by cards such as Farseek
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The "Evaluate Everything" Project
    Quote from MrEng1neer »
    Quote from Humphrey »
    Silumgar Scavenger borderline thouggh imo

    So while it's not my favorite, I can compare it to Wretched Gryff. A flying body that gets a good upside when casting it by saccing a creature. and as Hydra said, it can be a surprise hasty attacker in the right deck. Not as much upside of drawing a card, but I can see it turning some games around.

    Also I feel like Fountain of Ichor is Borderline. Guardian Idol is cubeable, and this while costs one more, is also a better threat and better blocker. I've seen a number of cubes run a 3CMC mana rock, this one at least is rainbow. A good control deck could make use I think.

    Ok. I'm taking the night off from cataloging (because of Night Hydra's help - thanks). I'll work on Multicolored tomorrow/friday, and the short land update.


    The thing with Fountain of Ichor is that three mana is much harder to leave open for a control deck than two mana, to be honest I don't get why it needs to cost the power/toughness, I think Fountain of Ichor would be fine having an activated cost of 2. Also something I have come to appreciate from Commander is 2 CMC ramp, going from 2 mana on T2 to 4 mana on T3 is often more impactfull than going from 3 mana T3 to 5 mana on T4. That's also why everyone is running Arbor Elf and Llanowar Elves, but barely anyone is running any mana elves that cost 2 or 3 mana.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    Quote from Marl Karx »
    Also, what are your White, Red and Black 2s, White Red and Blue 3s and Black 4s picks for the most powerful drops? The staples are pretty much clear both in the Evaluate Everything and by experience, but after that the cubeables are another world entirely with almost everyone running different things, so I was wondering if we could reach a consensus of which of those are the most powerful among the bunch (something like below staple but above cubeable).


    I'm not sure there is a definitive answer. We're planning to rotate a bunch of things frequently if we get regular cube sessions off the ground.


    I don't understand the point of reaching consensus. If you want to min max everything and play the same few dozen cards as everyone else, why not play constructed?

    I get the feeling that none of you guys actually like Pauper, you just can't afford a Vintage cube and don't like looking at proxies. If you want to max out on power just go all the way, why stick with commons?


    Because restrictions breeds creativity, if you look at our cubes they are different and even though we discuss cards in a vacuum everyone has certain archetypes that they favor over others. Same with petcards. Besides the fact that it is satisfying to have an entire cube with black symbols.

    I am not going to go into the second part of your comment cause I feel we have finally come to a point that we aren't raging at eachother anymore and this feels like a set-up again.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on WAR for Pauper Cubes
    I think we got some decent ones in the end:

    Aven Eternal better than Eldrazi Skyspawner? +1 toughness versus +1 mana if needed.
    Arboreal Gazer is interesting for ramping decks
    Return to Nature is the catch all sideboard card if people play sideboard cards
    Sky Theather Strix probably one of the better creatures in the set? Evasion + pseudo-prowess
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    I would say that it would be interesting to do.

    But as Runner said, a mission statement would be best to start with.
    Is it something that tries to get people into pauper cubing? Cause that would be like an Iconic Pauper cube, going through multiple standards and picking commons that defined that standard. Although this might be hard and result in somewhat parasitic keywords like infect and affinity showing up a lot.

    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on WAR for Pauper Cubes
    How does the tapper work with Manifest/Morphs?

    I think my biggest tokens are either golems from the splicers or the 4/4 elemental that gets left behind by the evoke 7/7 elemental.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on WAR for Pauper Cubes
    Fun interaction is that it works with [[Vigean Hydropon]] not that people are running that card at the moment.
    Does it also stop creatures enchanted with can't attack/can't block auras or am I understanding this wrong with layering?
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Local tourney reports (paper w MTGO rules)
    Do you have a list for the UR ponza list? I have been trying to come up with a mana denial UG list that uses Early Frost, Hoodwink and Rishadan Cutpurse. Trying to integrate it into some sort of instant/flash deck with Growth Spiral and Ambush Viper
    Posted in: MTGO Pauper
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    Quote from Humphrey »
    hm ok i misread the hauler. each kind of counter, not each counter. so it doesnt double. Frown yeah, then its not good enough.

    no comparison link there. since ill play the cube on xmage the program will play it correctly. makes the interaction worse though, but still interesting. no t2 potential then though.

    the cube is linked there, but here takes this one http://www.cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/4709


    Slivers could be really interesting with the old slivers having all slivers have... if you get into some sort of mirror match :p
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    This discussion sparked me in looking into my enchantment Pauper Cube again.

    http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/45528

    Last update was from 2017 any cards people have on the back of their minds to include in this.
    This is a rough 'draft' by all means (pun intended) at the moment I am severly lacking in the creature department. I will be aiming to have at least 20 creatures in each color.

    Btw should I cut the colorless section all together or does anyone have an idea for this section?
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    Quote from Brainz »
    I'm not a casual.

    My hatred of Tron is from competitive constructed Pauper. The competitive game would be better off without Ghostly Flicker because it makes playing the game less fun.

    I love playing competitive Pauper. Here is my Mono Black Control deck that I top foured a Pauper 1k with: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20757&d=337081&f=PAUIf I had the opportunity to fire paid draft events with my cube, I would.

    If the game is fun and fair and interactive at a competitive level, it will be fun and fair at the casual level.

    When casuals get together and make a format, the result is a 100 card singleton format that's only held together by gentleman's agreement. Or in X-Wing's case, it's Mario Kart X-Wing.

    I don't see why I can't build a cube -sans degeneracy- and play cards that simply do interesting things simply because they do interesting things. Coal Stoker? Huh, that card looks interesting, I'll put that into my cube.

    I've won two games with Dash Hopes. Last time I played White I used Healing Salve on Standard Bearer and my Standard Bearer survived a Bolt. Last time I drafted my cube, I was playing Simic and had 5 Splice Onto Arcane cards. In two consecutive games my Splice cards did a ton of work. These cards are okay and seem to work just fine.

    I understand that some (Splice Onto) Arcane cards in my cube aren't really that good, like Psychic Puppetry. But I'm hesitant to take them out since they give you extra copies of other, better Splice cards. Being able to play your Horobi's Whisper or Kodama's Might multiple times over the course of a game in a singleton cube is pretty good.

    Battlebox is not my thing. I hated DC 10, I hated Commander. I hate playing my friend's Legacy/Vintage (not sure which one it is) cube and only play it out of fairness to him. I only like Magic that's fun, fair, and interactive.


    I do not have a problem with the fact of how you build your cube or what cards you choose, however if you evaluate your cards in a this is not broken or this is a fun card kind of way. You should always add that to your question, otherwise it will result into a which card is the best, which obviously is not what you want for your cube. I have always been a more janky cube builder than the rest of the group here, trying things like an enchantment based cube, etc. But can you please consider the logic from the other side of the argument as well? This is for discussion of the cube itself and the last 3-4 pages have been a rather spiteful conversation.

    So let's start over what is your main goal for this pauper cube?
    Then we can maybe pitch in with our own advice, even if it is more related to pet cards than to staples.

    Btw I do like the attempt with the splice cards, however in my view it is one of those mechanics where if you don't get enough of them during a draft you get stuck with the less playable ones. But then again I don't know with how many players your cube gets drafted regularly and hence what percentage gets left out. It's one of the mechanics in the group with infect, +1/+1 counters matter, etc. that I would love to play but that has too few playable cards in my eyes to truely make a draftable deck. If they ever return to Kamigawa however this might change drastically Smile


    Edit: unrelated to the previous paragraphs I can't remember can we get downshifts in the guild decks? Or do these remain the same?


    That's a fair point, I should specify that I want cards evaluated on a Fun or Degeneracy scale, not neccesarily power scale.

    My main goal with the cube is to have as many quirky interactions as possible. That's the theme of my cube, that's why I like Morph, Planar Chaos cards, banding, cards like Oasis or Vulshhok Gauntlets, Ninjutsu, etc. In one game I had a morph creature attack in a band with a Kjeldoran Skycaptain. The morph creature was a Ruthless Ripper, so mid-combat I morphed the RR and then Ninjutsu'ed away the RR with Okiba Gang Shinobi and made my opponent discard 2 cards and I got to play my Ruthless Ripper again for 2 extra burn damage. Imagine Pee-Wee's Playhouse, except it's a Magic cube. That's what I want.

    If sharazod was Pauper legal/not hundreds of dollars it would be in my cube, for example.

    I'm basically looking to support as many silly or cool mechanics as possible but in a manner that's not degenerate where even the loser will enjoy the game. That's why I've taken out the bombs from the cube and things like Hexproof or Flicker and ddn't intend to ever support combo.

    Splice started out as an extra 15 cards in order to support Booster Tutor at the full 8 players. These were the 3 best (Splice Onto) Arcane cards in each color. The idea was that these would be playable by themselves even if they could never be Spliced. When I expanded to 9 players in order to get to 420 cards, I put a bunch more of the common (Splice Onto) Arcane cards into the 45 card addition. These are of varying quality and I'm trying them out. The reason I'm okay with some of them being mediocre is because they're potentially extra copies of the other, better Splice cards.

    In a game I played, I had Inner Calm, Outer Strength , Consuming Vortex, and Kodama's Might in my hand at the same time. I could splice so much that my opponent conceeded.

    Ethereal Haze is there because Prismatic Strands used to be in the cube. My friend wasn't having any fun playing against it, so I took it out and swapped it for a normal fog. Since it's Arcane you can Splice something onto it I guess.

    Aditionally, some of these cards are (likely) playable despite the perception that they're not. Spiraling Embers is just a pricey burn spell that hypothetically could just burn for 7+, Ideas Unbound is a 2 mana Ancestral Recall and if Gush ever gets banned I could see this becoming a replacement in constructed decks like Izzet Blitz and Inside Out Combo. Even something like Crushing Pain could allow one to trade a Goblin with a fatty.I say that they're likely playable is because I've been able to test a few of them out, but not all of them yet.

    The next mechanic I have my eye on to support is Spirits/Soulshift, althoguh I'm happy with most of the cards in my cube currently and I like my current cube's size, so I'm not going to expand. It's one thing to throw a few cumulative upkeep or Horsemanship cards in, it's another to add entire synergy packages without expanding the size of the cube.


    I have thought about including the Spirits/Soulshift, but decided against it, can't remember why.
    I do remember at a certain time that I was set on including 1 card representing each possible keyword in magic available at common, it was an amazing thought experiment, but not really optimal, imagine splice but no other arcane spells, Soulshift, but no spirits :p

    A Brain(z)twister cube.

    At the moment I am thinking of adding a couple more interesting cards to the cube, stuff like Brine Shaman as Al mentionned, really curious about it's performance and Extremely Slow Zombie and some other Un-cards. I am however working to a cube that can perform both as a draftable cube or as a Big Deck. Since we mostly come together to draft the newer sets and fill in the gaps with EDH or pauper cube. And since drafting sometimes takes to long, Big Deck is sweet since anyone can join/leave at anytime.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Pauper]] The Pauper Cube Discussion Thread (Commons Only)
    I'm not a casual.

    My hatred of Tron is from competitive constructed Pauper. The competitive game would be better off without Ghostly Flicker because it makes playing the game less fun.

    I love playing competitive Pauper. Here is my Mono Black Control deck that I top foured a Pauper 1k with: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20757&d=337081&f=PAUIf I had the opportunity to fire paid draft events with my cube, I would.

    If the game is fun and fair and interactive at a competitive level, it will be fun and fair at the casual level.

    When casuals get together and make a format, the result is a 100 card singleton format that's only held together by gentleman's agreement. Or in X-Wing's case, it's Mario Kart X-Wing.

    I don't see why I can't build a cube -sans degeneracy- and play cards that simply do interesting things simply because they do interesting things. Coal Stoker? Huh, that card looks interesting, I'll put that into my cube.

    I've won two games with Dash Hopes. Last time I played White I used Healing Salve on Standard Bearer and my Standard Bearer survived a Bolt. Last time I drafted my cube, I was playing Simic and had 5 Splice Onto Arcane cards. In two consecutive games my Splice cards did a ton of work. These cards are okay and seem to work just fine.

    I understand that some (Splice Onto) Arcane cards in my cube aren't really that good, like Psychic Puppetry. But I'm hesitant to take them out since they give you extra copies of other, better Splice cards. Being able to play your Horobi's Whisper or Kodama's Might multiple times over the course of a game in a singleton cube is pretty good.

    Battlebox is not my thing. I hated DC 10, I hated Commander. I hate playing my friend's Legacy/Vintage (not sure which one it is) cube and only play it out of fairness to him. I only like Magic that's fun, fair, and interactive.


    I do not have a problem with the fact of how you build your cube or what cards you choose, however if you evaluate your cards in a this is not broken or this is a fun card kind of way. You should always add that to your question, otherwise it will result into a which card is the best, which obviously is not what you want for your cube. I have always been a more janky cube builder than the rest of the group here, trying things like an enchantment based cube, etc. But can you please consider the logic from the other side of the argument as well? This is for discussion of the cube itself and the last 3-4 pages have been a rather spiteful conversation.

    So let's start over what is your main goal for this pauper cube?
    Then we can maybe pitch in with our own advice, even if it is more related to pet cards than to staples.

    Btw I do like the attempt with the splice cards, however in my view it is one of those mechanics where if you don't get enough of them during a draft you get stuck with the less playable ones. But then again I don't know with how many players your cube gets drafted regularly and hence what percentage gets left out. It's one of the mechanics in the group with infect, +1/+1 counters matter, etc. that I would love to play but that has too few playable cards in my eyes to truely make a draftable deck. If they ever return to Kamigawa however this might change drastically Smile


    Edit: unrelated to the previous paragraphs I can't remember can we get downshifts in the guild decks? Or do these remain the same?
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Archetypes
    One thing I have been trying to look at, but haven't had too much time to complete is a taxing style blue.

    With cards like Soul Barrier (it says succesfully cast, but oracle says cast so you can counter it as well.) Slow Motion and the cards that say target opponent pas 1 mana for ... or sacrifices a permanent. Can't remember the name, the creature one and the sorcery that does this for each creature.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
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