ok so say instead of putting a section of un-cards to tutor what 28-42 cards should I be looking to for tutor goodness? I would love to come up with a good color/archtype help selection just for the tutor. should I be looking at things like the signets for color fixing, combat style tricks for the aggro players, extra removel (does murderous cuts work well in cube?), are putting gold cards in this section wise?
So Im definitely going to add in the booster tutor. What would be the best 28-42 unglued/unhinged cards to add to the cube just for the booster tutor?
I am working on making a huge change to the cube. I will be updating it on the cubetutor as soon as its done updating.
Why would you want so many unglued/unhinged cards? I think I like making a booster from left-over cube cards better. Un-cards are so.... silly.
Why would you not want to add a little silliness to the cube. I figured since I was adding the tutor in it would be fun to tutor for something fun. I guess trying to come up with another 28-42 more cards just for the booster tutor seemed a little difficult with so much out there. Thanks again for the input
I still play multiple copies of certain 5c lands like city of brass. I have for a long time now.
Librarian works out fine. It's interesting to draft with and doesn't bog down the cube. I don't use it anymore.
I saw that you are playing booster tutor in your list. How is it working out? Do you just create a booster out of the cube for it or do you use an unopened booster from a random set?
Welcome to peasant cubing! Don't worry about getting in over your head. Cube is a very hands-on format where playing and trying things out are the best way to figure out what you like. One of the most fun things about being a cube owner is that you can sculpt the format you like with cards you like. Although similar, no cube is the same and everybody has their own preferences. Just go for it and see what you like, it will be fun nonetheless!
The list is a great start. After all, if it's the 'average' list, at least a lot people are running these cards! I'll echo a couple of things that have already been said here.
General cube design:
- Balance your colors/guilds. Unless you're designing a very specific cube (think Torment), you really want people to be able to draft all colors and combinations equally. To do this, also:
- Properly categorize your cards. Some cards like the aforementioned Kird Ape have a different, ehm, color identity than Cubetutor puts them in. I'd move cards to where they are played most: Kird Ape and Flinthoof Boar to Gruul, Shrine of Burning Rage to red, Shrine of Loyal Legions to white, Crystal Shard to blue, Forbidden Alchemy to Dimir, Lingering Souls and Unburied Rites to Orzhov, Momentary Blink to Azorius, Jilt to Izzet, Porcelain Legionnaire to colorless. Maybe there are more, but these are what I could find by skimming the list. By the way, a lot of us put Azorius Guildmage in white, because the blue ability rarely comes up. This is not common practice though.
- Consider a hybrid system like Leelue suggests. I've found it to be very intuitive and a great way to maintain color balance while also having access to more gold cards. This is one of the things the community is most divided on though. There's a thread somewhere with a discussion about it. It's good to read some of it and see what works best for you.
- Be wary of removal. This is something you'd really have to test to get right, but it's generally a good idea to gamble on the low side of the removal spectrum. Too much removal makes for boring games.
- Be wary of double costed 2-drops. Your cube doesn't have many, that's good. It's ok to run some, just be aware that 2-drops with only a single colored mana requirement are going to go in more decks and are easier to cast in gameplay. The double colored guys usually are not that much better that it warrants the clunkiness in your games. The same goes for double or triple manacosts in 3-drops, albeit a bit less.
- Don't go overboard on multicolor cards. The same argument holds for multicolor cards, especially in draft. Multicolor cards go in less deck, so they narrow the amount of cards that people will be able to draft.
As for cube philosophy: It helped me a great deal to think about what I want colors and guilds to do. What kind of archetypes/decks do you want to support? Or do you just want good cards. Especially when choosing guild cards this will matter. A lot of us choose to not run obvious good cards in their guild section (like Terminate, or Mortify), because those cards don't add something to a color combination that the colors already do pretty well. For example, I have Sunhome Guildmage in my Boros section over better cards like Warleader's Helix and Truefire Paladin because I want Boros to support token/swarm strategies.
Taking it one step further, I like to think about how the guilds interact in their respective shards/wedges. The BUG wedge is a good example: I support B/G, U/B and U/G graveyard strategies. Their all part of the same general archetype, but depending on the color combination in which is drafted, the decks look and feel slightly different. Another good example is WRB with their tokens and sacrifice shenanigans.
Some specific cards I think you can safely cut (note: most of these cards are fine to run if you want):
- Doomed Traveler: Pretty low impact, unless you specifically support something with sac-outlets. Even then, I found it to be underwhelming.
- Loyal Cathar: see above, with the added disadvantage that it costs WW. I think you're better off with either something easier to cast, or something more powerful.
- Gather the Townsfolk: unless you specifically support tokens and/or sac-outlets, it's a bit underpowered. If you want to go tokens, consider Intangible Virtue
- Brainstorm: I don't really like this card in peasant cube because we don't have a real abundance of shuffle effects. In U/G it's very decent, but generally it doesn't provide the value we all expect from it from other formats.
- Vault Skirge: not enough value. If you want another cheap colorless beater (because that's what it is), consider the blue one.
- Sign in Blood: Night's Whisper is better if you want the same card. 1B beats BB.
- Young Wolf: see Doomed Traveler.
- Deputy of Acquittals: not a real fan. Although you can get tricky with it, both white and blue have 2-drops that do more or less the same so I'd find a card for your guild that brings a little more to the table.
- Coiling Oracle: ask Leelue
- Goblin Electromancer: interesting card, but Izzet is so saturated with good cards that this will feel a bit underwhelming.
- Gravedigger: this is the classic bomby draft common, but black can do better in cube. Not a bad card though, just outclassed.
- Cenn's Enlistment: too slow to impact most games.
There are some more that I cut along the way, but that depends more on preference than on the quality of the cards in a vacuum. There are also cards that you will find overpowering or underpowered depending on how your cube is set up.
Cards I run that I think are (close to) auto-includes or at least very powerful and would recommend:
- Mardu Woe-Reaper
- Treasure Cruise
- Gnarled Scarhide
- Curse of Shallow Graves
- Curse of Predation
- Diabolic Servitude
- Goblin Bombardment
- Lust for War
- Reclamation Sage
- Lashknife Barrier
- Soltari Trooper
- Ghostly Prison
- Vaporkin and/or Welkin Tern (if you want blue aggro)
- Tandem Lookout
- Clone
- Remand
- Propaganda
- Dauthi Horror
- Dauthi Marauder
- Darkblast
- Borderland Marauder and War-Name Aspirant
- Chain Lightning
- Reckless Charge
- Goblin Bombardment
- Predator's Howl
- Utopia Sprawl and probably Wild Growth
- Baleful Strix
- Ribbons of Night
- Fire Covenant
- Zealous Persecution
- City of Brass
- Gemstone Mine
- Isochron Scepter (do make sure you have enough support)
- Ancient Tomb
- Strip Mine
- Maze of Ith
Hope that helped. Have fun with your cube
Your post was very helpful. I believe I have all the cards properly classified in there sections. now I have been working on fixing the color problem to start with so I am proposing that I remove
Adding
Tandem Lookout
Clone
Remand
Propaganda
Vaporkin
Welkin Tern
Illusory Angel
Curse of Shallow Grave
Diabolic Servitude
Dauthi Horror
Dauthi Marauder
Darkblast
Ribbons of Night
Reanimate
Carnophage
Goblin Bombardment
Borderland Marauder
War-Name Aspirant
Reclamation Sage
Replacement to be made
Loayl Cather => Soltari Trooper
Sign in Blood => Nights Whisper
oblivion Ring => intangible Virtue
Im still a little confused on what I would like to support in the cube. To start with should I just play a bunch of good cards and see what people make of it. I know I would love to support a good control deck, a stompy type build, reanimator style deck, and somethings that is combo/shenanigans feel. If anyone is still looking thanks for the future help
Welcome to the community my man! First thing I usually tell the new guys: Put the cube on Cubetutor.com. This easily has the best interface for viewing cubes and makes suggestions way easier since we can get the visual spoiler of the whole thing. Start with that and post it in your signature so we can take a look.
I will say this: for a 1st list, this looks well refined. You definitely did your research before posting. Have fun with it and keep us posted!
Thanks for the compliments. I have now put the link to the cube in my signature for anyone willing to help out.
Yeah,
1) Properly categorize your cards. Even if you arent going to use the hybrid system I outline here *The Hybrid System* you should still be trying to strive for color balance and that starts with putting kird ape in gruul.
2) Even out the guilds. Follows from 1.
3) Test your cube until you don't think you have too many kill spells. You can easily tell just by trying to draft a deck full of them and seeing how easy and how rewarding it is.
4) Go through other lists around your size. Me and inscho have cubes about 360, and I thiiiink majikian has it around there as well. The three opinions I trust the most around here are those two, and of course myself. Squirelly and io are another two people I think are worth at least debating or checking in on their opinion with.
Thanks again on the help. Coiling oracle will be the first card to go. Is there a good list of cards I should be using from the new sets out there? From looking at your's and the other's lists I feel like I may have to many lands and obviously to much removal. If possible and you have the time what should be the first cards I should replace to at least make the cube less control heavy/color fixed? Thanks again for the advice I think I got a little over my head just jumping into this with out the proper research I should have done.
Ok so I put together the cubetutors 360 peasant cube list. From what I have been told it isn't really that good but for me its a start. I would love to make a cube that has a good aggro/control/combo mix if possible. I have really no restriction on what goes into the cube. Here is the list that I started with:
I super appreciate the advice leelue. I just didn't really know where to start with finding a good cube to start with so many list out there. The cube tutor seemed like it looked ok. I will have to post up the list to see what I need to change to make it better
Ok so I have never made a cube before. So I decided to use the cube tutor peasant list. my two local shops and I do not have a carnophage. I would just order one but we are supposed to play in about 2 days which does not give me time to get one what is the best replacement for him for now? Thanks for the help.
Why would you not want to add a little silliness to the cube. I figured since I was adding the tutor in it would be fun to tutor for something fun. I guess trying to come up with another 28-42 more cards just for the booster tutor seemed a little difficult with so much out there. Thanks again for the input
I am working on making a huge change to the cube. I will be updating it on the cubetutor as soon as its done updating.
I saw that you are playing booster tutor in your list. How is it working out? Do you just create a booster out of the cube for it or do you use an unopened booster from a random set?
should I replace the shards lands or roo lands im playing? Or should I be finding a spot in the 360 for them?
Your post was very helpful. I believe I have all the cards properly classified in there sections. now I have been working on fixing the color problem to start with so I am proposing that I remove
cenn's Enlistment
Cloudshift
Mana Tithe
Deputy of Acquittals
Skymark Roc
Agony Wrap
Murderous Redcap
Blightning
Burning Tree Emissary
Armidillo CLoak
Kingpin
Tidehollow Sculler
Coiling oracle
Snakeform
Urban Evolution
Goblin Electromancer
Izzet Charm
Electrolyze
Turefire Paladin
Wojek Halberdiers
Skyknight Legionnaire
Adding
Tandem Lookout
Clone
Remand
Propaganda
Vaporkin
Welkin Tern
Illusory Angel
Curse of Shallow Grave
Diabolic Servitude
Dauthi Horror
Dauthi Marauder
Darkblast
Ribbons of Night
Reanimate
Carnophage
Goblin Bombardment
Borderland Marauder
War-Name Aspirant
Reclamation Sage
Replacement to be made
Loayl Cather => Soltari Trooper
Sign in Blood => Nights Whisper
oblivion Ring => intangible Virtue
Im still a little confused on what I would like to support in the cube. To start with should I just play a bunch of good cards and see what people make of it. I know I would love to support a good control deck, a stompy type build, reanimator style deck, and somethings that is combo/shenanigans feel. If anyone is still looking thanks for the future help
Thanks for the compliments. I have now put the link to the cube in my signature for anyone willing to help out.
Thanks again on the help. Coiling oracle will be the first card to go. Is there a good list of cards I should be using from the new sets out there? From looking at your's and the other's lists I feel like I may have to many lands and obviously to much removal. If possible and you have the time what should be the first cards I should replace to at least make the cube less control heavy/color fixed? Thanks again for the advice I think I got a little over my head just jumping into this with out the proper research I should have done.
1x Doomed Traveler
1x Elite Vanguard
1x Gideon's Lawkeeper
1x Goldmeadow Harrier
1x Mother of Runes
1x Steppe Lynx
1x Accorder Paladin
1x Azorius Arrester
1x Cloistered Youth
1x Daring Skyjek
1x Knight of Meadowgrain
1x Kor Skyfisher
1x Lone Missionary
1x Loyal Cathar
1x Stormfront Pegasus
1x Syndic of Tithes
1x Wall of Omens
1x Attended Knight
1x Aven Riftwatcher
1x Banisher Priest
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Flickerwisp
1x Kor Hookmaster
1x Kor Sanctifiers
1x Master of Diversion
1x Stonecloaker
1x Calciderm
1x Celestial Crusader
1x Glimmerpoint Stag
1x Guardian of the Guildpact
1x Master Splicer
1x Seraph of Dawn
1x Cloudgoat Ranger
1x Serra Angel
White Artifact Creature
1x Porcelain Legionnaire
White Instant
1x Cloudshift
1x Harm's Way
1x Mana Tithe
1x Path to Exile
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Momentary Blink
1x Otherworldly Journey
1x Raise the Alarm
1x Blinding Beam
1x Midnight Haunting
White Sorcery
1x Sunlance
1x Gather the Townsfolk
1x Lingering Souls
1x Spectral Procession
1x Cenn's Enlistment
White Enchantment
1x Journey to Nowhere
1x Pacifism
1x Temporal Isolation
1x Arrest
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Faith's Fetters
Blue Creature
1x Cloudfin Raptor
1x Delver of Secrets
1x Enclave Cryptologist
1x Wingcrafter
1x Augur of Bolas
1x Looter il-Kor
1x Merfolk Looter
1x Omenspeaker
1x Aether Adept
1x Calcite Snapper
1x Man-o'-War
1x Pestermite
1x Sea Gate Oracle
1x Archaeomancer
1x Mist Raven
1x Ninja of the Deep Hours
1x Wing Splicer
1x Mnemonic Wall
1x Mulldrifter
1x Murder of Crows
1x Riftwing Cloudskate
1x Jetting Glasskite
1x Errant Ephemeron
Blue Instant
1x Brainstorm
1x Force Spike
1x Counterspell
1x Essence Scatter
1x Into the Roil
1x Jilt
1x Mana Leak
1x Miscalculation
1x Think Twice
1x Capsize
1x Exclude
1x Forbidden Alchemy
1x Repulse
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Condescend
1x Repeal
Blue Sorcery
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Compulsive Research
1x Deep Analysis
1x Talrand's Invocation
Blue Enchantment
1x Narcolepsy
1x Control Magic
1x Mind Control
Blue Enchantment Creature
1x Nimbus Naiad
Black Creature
1x Carnophage
1x Diregraf Ghoul
1x Vampire Lacerator
1x Basilica Screecher
1x Blood Artist
1x Nezumi Cutthroat
1x Reassembling Skeleton
1x Thrill-Kill Assassin
1x Vampire Interloper
1x Crypt Rats
1x Hypnotic Specter
1x Liliana's Specter
1x Phyrexian Rager
1x Vampire Nighthawk
1x Falkenrath Noble
1x Gravedigger
1x Marsh Flitter
1x Nekrataal
1x Skinrender
1x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1x Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1x Sengir Vampire
1x Shriekmaw
1x Phyrexian Gargantua
1x Twisted Abomination
1x Vault Skirge
Black Instant
1x Disfigure
1x Tragic Slip
1x Undying Evil
1x Doom Blade
1x Go for the Throat
1x Ultimate Price
1x Dismember
1x Snuff Out
Black Sorcery
1x Duress
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Unearth
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Sign in Blood
1x Drown in Sorrow
1x Read the Bones
1x Barter in Blood
1x Moan of the Unhallowed
1x Unburial Rites
Black Enchantment
1x Animate Dead
1x Stab Wound
Red Creature
1x Frenzied Goblin
1x Goblin Bushwhacker
1x Jackal Pup
1x Kird Ape
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Reckless Waif
1x Stonewright
1x Firefist Striker
1x Gore-House Chainwalker
1x Hellspark Elemental
1x Keldon Marauders
1x Lightning Mauler
1x Mogg War Marshal
1x Plated Geopede
1x Stormblood Berserker
1x Torch Fiend
1x Young Pyromancer
1x Cunning Sparkmage
1x Fervent Cathar
1x Guttersnipe
1x Manic Vandal
1x Pyreheart Wolf
1x Splatter Thug
1x Bloodfray Giant
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Keldon Champion
1x Rubblebelt Maaka
Red Instant
1x Burst Lightning
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Incinerate
1x Lightning Strike
1x Magma Jet
1x Searing Blaze
1x Searing Spear
1x Brimstone Volley
1x Staggershock
1x Fireblast
Red Sorcery
1x Faithless Looting
1x Firebolt
1x Flame Slash
1x Arc Trail
1x Pyroclasm
1x Act of Treason
1x Arc Lightning
1x Flames of the Firebrand
1x Rift Bolt
1x Fireball
1x Rolling Thunder
Red Enchantment
1x Madcap Skills
Green Creature
1x Arbor Elf
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Experiment One
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Joraga Treespeaker
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Wild Nacatl
1x Young Wolf
1x Ambush Viper
1x Flinthoof Boar
1x Jade Mage
1x River Boa
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Strangleroot Geist
1x Viridian Emissary
1x Wall of Blossoms
1x Wall of Roots
1x Wild Mongrel
1x Borderland Ranger
1x Crocanura
1x Eternal Witness
1x Slaughterhorn
1x Wolfir Avenger
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Blastoderm
1x Briarhorn
1x Druid's Familiar
1x Masked Admirers
1x Penumbra Spider
1x Wickerbough Elder
1x Acidic Slime
1x Nessian Asp
1x Sentinel Spider
1x Deadwood Treefolk
1x Krosan Tusker
1x Pelakka Wurm
Green Instant
1x Giant Growth
1x Mutagenic Growth
1x Vines of Vastwood
1x Naturalize
1x Sprout Swarm
1x Beast Within
Green Sorcery
1x Prey Upon
1x Rampant Growth
1x Cultivate
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Search for Tomorrow
1x Harmonize
1x Overrun
1x Rancor
Green Enchantment Creature
1x Leafcrown Dryad
Azorius
1x Azorius Guildmage
1x Deputy of Acquittals
1x Lyev Skyknight
1x Skymark Roc
1x Azorius Charm
Dimir
1x Dinrova Horror
1x Agony Warp
1x Far // Away
Rakdos
1x Rakdos Cackler
1x Rakdos Shred-Freak
1x Spike Jester
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Terminate
1x Bituminous Blast
1x Blightning
Gruul
1x Burning-Tree Emissary
1x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Ghor-Clan Rampager
Selesnya
1x Dryad Militant
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Trostani's Summoner
1x Behemoth Sledge
1x Armadillo Cloak
Orzhov
1x Tithe Drinker
1x Kingpin's Pet
1x Tidehollow Sculler
1x Mortify
Golgari
1x Putrid Leech
1x Dreg Mangler
1x Putrefy
Simic
1x Coiling Oracle
1x Trygon Predator
1x Horizon Chimera
1x Simic Charm
1x Snakeform
1x Urban Evolution
Izzet
1x Frostburn Weird
1x Goblin Electromancer
1x Fire // Ice
1x Izzet Charm
1x Turn // Burn
1x Electrolyze
Boros
1x Truefire Paladin
1x Wojek Halberdiers
1x Skyknight Legionnaire
1x Viashino Firstblade
1x Boros Charm
1x Lightning Helix
Colourless Creature
1x Ulamog's Crusher
1x Artisan of Kozilek
Colourless Artifact Creature
1x Epochrasite
1x Perilous Myr
1x Galvanic Juggernaut
1x Juggernaut
1x Pierce Strider
Colourless Artifact
1x Bonesplitter
1x Sylvok Lifestaff
1x Trusty Machete
1x Mind Stone
1x Mortarpod
1x Prismatic Lens
1x Prophetic Prism
1x Shrine of Burning Rage
1x Shrine of Loyal Legions
1x Vulshok Morningstar
1x Crystal Shard
1x Grafted Wargear
1x Loxodon Warhammer
1x Pristine Talisman
1x Tumble Magnet
1x Icy Manipulator
1x Serrated Arrows
Colourless Land
1x Arcane Sanctum
1x Azorius Chancery
1x Azorius Guildgate
1x Boros Garrison
1x Boros Guildgate
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Dimir Guildgate
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Faerie Conclave
1x Golgari Guildgate
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Gruul Guildgate
1x Gruul Turf
1x Izzet Boilerworks
1x Izzet Guildgate
1x Jungle Shrine
1x Orzhov Basilica
1x Orzhov Guildgate
1x Rakdos Carnarium
1x Rakdos Guildgate
1x Rupture Spire
1x Savage Lands
1x Seaside Citadel
1x Selesnya Guildgate
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Simic Guildgate
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Transguild Promenade
1x Treetop Village
1x Vivid Crag
1x Vivid Creek
1x Vivid Grove
1x Vivid Marsh
1x Vivid Meadow
any help in fixing the list or any one willing to point me in the right direction with a really well put together list would be super helpful.